Hi Ken,

?

Yes, and according to the manufacturer it should perform better than a fixed prop. I was getting about 22 watts at 3.8 knots. Haven't had any real wind for testing yet. Hopefully this week. There is only so much power we can expect to generate at typical sailing speed for a 30' mono and a limited swept area so I'm not expecting miracles, but hopefully it will be close to as good as it can be.??

?

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

?

?

?

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 11:18:58 AM EDT, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@...> wrote:

?

?

Hi Matt

?

Very interesting. I'm a broker and I have sold several boat with Diesel engines and Autoprops and am well aware of their advantage. I was unsure how they would translate to electric drive. Are you able to ?regenerate power with the autoprop??

?

K

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 11:10 AM Matt Foley <matt@...> wrote:

Hi Ken,

?

?I use my own boat for testing. I'll try and write it all up one day with specs and measurements, but briefly.?

?

I started out at one extreme with a tiny 12' low pitch prop. This gave me a high RPM which allowed for direct drive. Efficiency at lower speeds were ok,? got worse the faster I went and struggled to hit 5.5 knots. Even so I was happy enough with it's performance.?

?

I'm now using a 16.5" Autprop and a 2:1 reduction. I have only done a few quick test runs, but it's a huge improvement. I would say at least 30% efficiency improvements and I can hit 6.5 knots with ease. 6.7 knots is theoretical hull speed. I will be moving up to a little over 3:1 reduction which should improve system efficiency a bit more.?

?

What makes the Autoprop unique is the ability for the blades to automatically adjust themselves to provide the most thrust at any RPM. This means lower RPM's for any given speed. All things being equal, a lower RPM prop will always be more efficient. Paired with the right motor and or gearing this will be a very efficient setup.? They also pitch themselves to provide maximum regen! (yet to be tested)?

?

Two additional benefits (which I'm less concerned with). They improve sailing speed when not regenerating and you get 100% reverse thrust.?

?

?

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

?

?

?

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 09:59:18 AM EDT, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@...> wrote:

?

?

Very interested in your autoprop and why you chose it. Tell us more about it please.

On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 11:53 PM Matt Foley <matt@...> wrote:

Anyone interested in learning more about an electric boat or just want to check one out. You are invited for a sail anytime. Just bring the beer!?

Boat is located in Atlantic Highlands, NJ.

O'day 31
8.1kw brushless motor
10.2kwh lifepo4?
Orion JR BMS?
Brunton Autoprop
460 watts solar (custom carbon fiber solar bimini in the works)

Also have a converted Honda 2.3 on the dinghy

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

?

?

?

Hi Ken,

?

Yes, and according to the manufacturer it should perform better than a fixed prop. I was getting about 22 watts at 3.8 knots. Haven't had any real wind for testing yet. Hopefully this week. There is only so much power we can expect to generate at typical sailing speed for a 30' mono and a limited swept area so I'm not expecting miracles, but hopefully it will be close to as good as it can be.??

?

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

?

?

?

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 11:18:58 AM EDT, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@...> wrote:

?

?

Hi Matt

?

Very interesting. I'm a broker and I have sold several boat with Diesel engines and Autoprops and am well aware of their advantage. I was unsure how they would translate to electric drive. Are you able to ?regenerate power with the autoprop??

?

K

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 11:10 AM Matt Foley <matt@...> wrote:

Hi Ken,

?

?I use my own boat for testing. I'll try and write it all up one day with specs and measurements, but briefly.?

?

I started out at one extreme with a tiny 12' low pitch prop. This gave me a high RPM which allowed for direct drive. Efficiency at lower speeds were ok,? got worse the faster I went and struggled to hit 5.5 knots. Even so I was happy enough with it's performance.?

?

I'm now using a 16.5" Autprop and a 2:1 reduction. I have only done a few quick test runs, but it's a huge improvement. I would say at least 30% efficiency improvements and I can hit 6.5 knots with ease. 6.7 knots is theoretical hull speed. I will be moving up to a little over 3:1 reduction which should improve system efficiency a bit more.?

?

What makes the Autoprop unique is the ability for the blades to automatically adjust themselves to provide the most thrust at any RPM. This means lower RPM's for any given speed. All things being equal, a lower RPM prop will always be more efficient. Paired with the right motor and or gearing this will be a very efficient setup.? They also pitch themselves to provide maximum regen! (yet to be tested)?

?

Two additional benefits (which I'm less concerned with). They improve sailing speed when not regenerating and you get 100% reverse thrust.?

?

?

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

?

?

?

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 09:59:18 AM EDT, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@...> wrote:

?

?

Very interested in your autoprop and why you chose it. Tell us more about it please.

On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 11:53 PM Matt Foley <matt@...> wrote:

Anyone interested in learning more about an electric boat or just want to check one out. You are invited for a sail anytime. Just bring the beer!?

Boat is located in Atlantic Highlands, NJ.

O'day 31
8.1kw brushless motor
10.2kwh lifepo4?
Orion JR BMS?
Brunton Autoprop
460 watts solar (custom carbon fiber solar bimini in the works)

Also have a converted Honda 2.3 on the dinghy

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

?

?

?

Hi Dan,

?

My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.?

?

I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.?

?

Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my? use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller?

?

In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.?

?

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

?

?

?

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:

?

?

Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??

What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???

Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??


Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer

?

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 4:28 PM, Dan Pfeiffer

<dan@...> wrote:

Thanks for the details.?

I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral.?? It would then stay feathered in neutral.? If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin.? I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather.? But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process.? I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg).? But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.?

The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.?

I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.


What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?

I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience.?? I was planning to start with 3:1 myself.? This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V.? 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800.? I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch.? I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing.? I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.?


Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer

?

On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:

Hi Dan,

?

My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.?

?

I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.?

?

Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my? use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller?

?

In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.?

?

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

?

?

?

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:

?

?

Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??

What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???

Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??


Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer

?

Hi Dan,

?

My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.?

?

I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.?

?

Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my? use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller?

?

In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.?

?

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

?

?

?

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:

?

?

Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??

What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???

Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??


Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer

?

?

On Oct 28, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Matt Foley <matt@...> wrote:

?

See attached

Finally getting around posting the stats. Missing some data points, but you will get the point. Note, the wattage measurement on the 1803/Curtis setup are from the controller. Add about 10% for overall system wattage.

O'Day 31

Length at waterline 25' 7in

Beam 10' 9in

Draft "5'3in deep, 4' shoal"

Displacement "10,100, 10,400 shoal"

My original setup was direct drive with a Saietta 7.5kw, 4QD controller and a 12"x7 prop

New setup ME1803 8.1kw, Curtis 1236SE, 16" Brunton Autorpop. First try was 2:1 reduction. I was hitting my amp limit at 6.1 knots. Changed to a 3.26:1. That allowed me to kit 7knots at 9000 watts.

10.2kwh lifepo4. 51.2 nominal.?

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 04:28:08 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:

Thanks for the details.?

I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral.?? It would then stay feathered in neutral.? If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin.? I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather.? But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process.? I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg).? But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.?

The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.?

I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.


What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?

I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience.?? I was planning to start with 3:1 myself.? This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V.? 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800.? I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch.? I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing.? I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.?


Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer

?

On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:

Hi Dan,

?

My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.?

?

I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.?

?

Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my? use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller?

?

In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.?

?

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

?

?

?

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:

?

?

Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??

What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???

Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??


Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer

?

<RiverRyder Saietta vs ME1803.pdf>

On Oct 28, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Matt Foley <matt@...> wrote:

?

See attached

Finally getting around posting the stats. Missing some data points, but you will get the point. Note, the wattage measurement on the 1803/Curtis setup are from the controller. Add about 10% for overall system wattage.

O'Day 31

Length at waterline 25' 7in

Beam 10' 9in

Draft "5'3in deep, 4' shoal"

Displacement "10,100, 10,400 shoal"

My original setup was direct drive with a Saietta 7.5kw, 4QD controller and a 12"x7 prop

New setup ME1803 8.1kw, Curtis 1236SE, 16" Brunton Autorpop. First try was 2:1 reduction. I was hitting my amp limit at 6.1 knots. Changed to a 3.26:1. That allowed me to kit 7knots at 9000 watts.

10.2kwh lifepo4. 51.2 nominal.?

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 04:28:08 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:

Thanks for the details.?

I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral.?? It would then stay feathered in neutral.? If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin.? I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather.? But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process.? I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg).? But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.?

The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.?

I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.


What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?

I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience.?? I was planning to start with 3:1 myself.? This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V.? 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800.? I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch.? I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing.? I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.?


Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer

?

On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:

Hi Dan,

?

My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.?

?

I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.?

?

Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my? use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller?

?

In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.?

?

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

?

?

?

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:

?

?

Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??

What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???

Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??


Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer

?

<RiverRyder Saietta vs ME1803.pdf>

On Oct 28, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@...> wrote:

On Oct 28, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Matt Foley <matt@...> wrote:

?

See attached

Finally getting around posting the stats. Missing some data points, but you will get the point. Note, the wattage measurement on the 1803/Curtis setup are from the controller. Add about 10% for overall system wattage.

O'Day 31

Length at waterline 25' 7in

Beam 10' 9in

Draft "5'3in deep, 4' shoal"

Displacement "10,100, 10,400 shoal"

My original setup was direct drive with a Saietta 7.5kw, 4QD controller and a 12"x7 prop

New setup ME1803 8.1kw, Curtis 1236SE, 16" Brunton Autorpop. First try was 2:1 reduction. I was hitting my amp limit at 6.1 knots. Changed to a 3.26:1. That allowed me to kit 7knots at 9000 watts.

10.2kwh lifepo4. 51.2 nominal.?

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 04:28:08 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:

Thanks for the details.?

I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral.?? It would then stay feathered in neutral.? If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin.? I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather.? But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process.? I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg).? But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.?

The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.?

I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.


What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?

I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience.?? I was planning to start with 3:1 myself.? This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V.? 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800.? I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch.? I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing.? I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.?


Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer

?

On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:

Hi Dan,

?

My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.?

?

I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.?

?

Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my? use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller?

?

In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.?

?

Matt Foley?

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

?

?

?

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:

?

?

Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??

What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???

Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??


Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer

?

<RiverRyder Saietta vs ME1803.pdf>