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[Electric Boats] Hunter 27 has electric option
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David Goldsmith
I don't have any more info than is available from Hunter or from a brief article in Sail:
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I know I gave that last boat a hard time, so let me make it up by saying this is a pretty sweet little set up. Elco is a very good name in electric boats, I'd love to have their systems and expertise designing my set up. The batteries are six 210amp/hr AGMs (4d?), which is a good compromise on cost and easy of maintenance. This is just the right sized boat to have a system like this, small enough that the motor and battery requirements are reasonable, but big enough it can handle the weight and room. Their claimed 20 miles at 6 knots sounds reasonable and not like an 'ideal conditions at 2 knots' type of situation. I'll note that the motor looks to be a very good system, completely enclosed, and possibly direct drive, its not clear if there is any gear reduction done in the case. Anyone familiar with Elco systems? The only concern I'd have is that it runs on 72V which is beyond the nominal 48V at which more safety concerns have to be addressed. I'm more comfortable with 48V but a professionally designed and installed system should be fine since they know what they're doing and I'm just tinkering. I didn't see any estimate on cost, I would assume it costs more than the standard diesel, but it really shouldn't be that much more. Sometimes Hunter is given a hard time for being one of the big-three of sailboats and producing a sort of mainstream product where price and quality have an inverse relationship. I owned a 1977 Hunter 27, the really tubby one designed by John Cherubini, and it was really a pretty good boat for what it was, built like a tank too. They've changed a lot since then of course. I took a tour of the factory a few years ago and was pretty impressed. They weren't quite the modern marvel the new Beneteau factories are but it was clean and well organized and there was still a lot of hand work going into assembling the interior components and installing the systems. This is the type of electric propulsion I think will be first to go mainstream, in boats that are really a little on the small side for a diesel and a little on the big size for an outboard, where low maintenance is more important than range under power. I really hope the other builders follow suit. As for the hobbyist, this is exactly the type of system that many of us are trying to build for our own boats of about this size and the more Hunter, Catalina, and Beneteau start offering these as options the better available and easier they will be for us to implement too. Very cool, thumbs up! David On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 3:11 PM, Todd <toddbates99@...> wrote:
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David Hughes
Elco is located here on the east coast, NY I think, and is one of the oldest companies dedicated to electric boating. However, they have gone through many ownership changes and challenges with one very recently. I tried contacting them this past year for my project and after several phone calls and the total lack of information, I gave up. I do hope they have figured it out and got beyond their troubles.
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--- In electricboats@..., David Goldsmith <suntreader@...> wrote:
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David,
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I ran some quick numbers to see if 20 miles at 6kts is reasonable from that battery bank. 214Ah @ 72V = 15.4kWh 80% depth of discharge = 12.3kWh usable Using a Peukerts exponent of 1.15 for AGM to compensate for high amp draws, I backed into the constant load that would let the batteries last 3.3 hours (6kts x 3.3 hrs = 20nm) The 3.3 hours rate to 80% depth of discharge is 42A @ 72V or 3024W. So the question becomes whether or not the Hunter 27e can cruise at 6kts while only using 3kW (4hp) of power. Given the observed data from similar boats, that might be optimistic. A Catalina 30 (longer waterline) conversion that is pretty well documented uses 3.2kW (4.2hp) to hit 5kts and 6 kts takes about 6kW (8hp). So lets slow it down, just a little. The 4 hour rate (5kts x 4 hrs = 20nm) for this battery pack to 80% DoD is 36A @ 72V or 2592W. That looks like were getting closer with 2.6kW (3.4hp) to run at 5kts. One step down, lets look at 4.5kts. The 4.45 hour rate (4.5kts x 4.45 hrs = 20nm) to 80% DoD is 32.5A @ 72V or 2340W. Now we're looking at 2.3kW (3.1hp) to drive the boat at 4.5kts and that rate sounds a lot like the numbers that various owners have reported in this group. So I would believe 20nm @ 4.5kts from specific info that you posted from Hunter. That is very good performance from an electric conversion of this size. If we use the rule of thumb that doubling the power will increase boat speed by 1.5kts, then 6 kts will take 4.7kW (6.2hp) and the batteries will be 80% discharged in 2 hours or 12nm. Again, this sounds a little optimistic to me, but somewhat believable). Hull speed on this boat works out to be between 6 and 6.5kts. Of course, these are all estimates based on experience collected here and with other electric conversions. Hunter's results may vary, the only effective way to find out is to put one of their 27e's through its paces. Let's hope that someone here buys one and gives a detailed performance and efficiency report. Fair winds, Eric Marina del Rey, CA I personally haven't found quick reviews in the glossy sail magazines to be the most technically reliable sources. This might be one of those marketing things, saying the boat can hit 6kts and has a range of 20nm doesn't necessarily mean that it can go 20nm at 6kts. :) --- In electricboats@..., David Goldsmith <suntreader@...> wrote:
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David Goldsmith
I love it when you lay it out for us. I'd like to throw in a few points however. The Catalina 30 actually has a shorter waterline, its listed as 25', while the Hunter 27 has a full 27' waterline and the Hunter's displacement is listed as about 7,600 lbs, while the Catalina weighs in at 10,200. The current Hunter 27 really isn't in the same class as the older Hunters of that length or the Catalinas. Its more of a stretched 25 footer than a roomy cruiser.
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Those other numbers won't dramatically affect what usually works out to a lot of factors like how the boat is loaded, the condition of the batteries, and the weather and sea conditions. I wouldn't put it past them to be quoting range and speed that assume you're sailing down hill:) I would assume, but take this with a grain of salt, that Hunter and Elco would have this set up very well optimized and worked out. They've both got extensive experience and complete control over every component so they should be able to make a good show of things. We'll know as soon as someone on the list buys one, any takers? David On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Eric <ewdysar@...> wrote:
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qc_ca_666
Hi all!
We'll know as soon as someone onI was just curious about the price, so I contacted a local Hunter reseller. I'm located in Montreal, Canada. The base price is 88 700 $ US, with a 10 000 $ US rebate if you buy during a boat show in Feb. Price includes the delivery at my local marina. The Energy Package (arch, bimini, 3 solar panels, wind generator) is at 9 985$ US. The Dock Side Package (dockside connector, 110 v circuit, intelligent battery charger, pressurized water, water heater, inside and outside shower, sink) at 3 280$ US. So we are talking of 92 000 $ US for a fully equipped e-boat. Pierre |
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Good info, Pierre!
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The Hunter 27e has popped up occasionally on this list over the last year or so, but no prices have been available. Did you find out what the same boat with conventional drive would cost? It would be interesting to know what the "e-power" premium is. The base price for a Hunter 27 with a 14hp diesel listed from a couple of vendors on-line looks like it is $57,990US. But I don't believe that the on-line prices are nearly as inclusive as the quotes that you received. Fair winds, Eric Marina del Rey, CA --- In electricboats@..., "qc_ca_666" <qc_ca_666@...> wrote:
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Nanci
I was at the Hunter factory recently and looked at their 27E. The spec sheet I brought home states $8224 for the energy package which includes T-Top solar panels and wind generator.?
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Nanci
-----Original Message----- From: Eric To: electricboats@... Sent: Tue, Feb 8, 2011 4:46 pm Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Hunter 27 has electric option
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Good info, Pierre!
The Hunter 27e has popped up occasionally on this list over the last year or so, but no prices have been available. Did you find out what the same boat with conventional drive would cost? It would be interesting to know what the "e-power" premium is. The base price for a Hunter 27 with a 14hp diesel listed from a couple of vendors on-line looks like it is $57,990US. But I don't believe that the on-line prices are nearly as inclusive as the quotes that you received. Fair winds, Eric Marina del Rey, CA --- In electricboats@..., "qc_ca_666" wrote: > > > > Hi all! > > > We'll know as soon as someone on > > the list buys one, any takers? > > I was just curious about the price, so I contacted a local Hunter reseller. I'm located in Montreal, Canada. The base price is 88 700 $ US, with a 10 000 $ US rebate if you buy during a boat show in Feb. Price includes the delivery at my local marina. The Energy Package (arch, bimini, 3 solar panels, wind generator) is at 9 985$ US. The Dock Side Package (dockside connector, 110 v circuit, intelligent battery charger, pressurized water, water heater, inside and outside shower, sink) at 3 280$ US. > > So we are talking of 92 000 $ US for a fully equipped e-boat. > > Pierre > |
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bill garrison
Don't be flakey. and to friends. |
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Bill,
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I can guarantee that a wind tubine that will fit on a boat will not produce 1500W at 3 mph wind speed. The problem is that people that are promoting something will say things that sound different than they really are. Here's an example: my car gets 35mpg, and it goes over 100mph, but it does not get 35mpg at over 100mph. It can be difficult to figure out what is really true about or even old products. Your best bet is to listen to what people here have posted about wind power generation in the last week. Both Myles and Mike have already discussed this concept in detail. Fair winds, Eric Marina del Rey, CA --- In electricboats@..., bill garrison <wagarrison@...> wrote:
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