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Thinking more about it - connecting a power supply to a battery (especially a high current lithium battery) could be bad from both directions:? 1) If the battery voltage is LOW, then there would be potential for a huge "spark" when they're connected.? 2) Depending on the design of the power supply - if the battery voltage is still HIGHER than the power supply, would you blow up the final stage of the power supply.
Maybe at least a fuse, a BIG diode, and possibly even a current limit resistor?? But then you're getting back to something that might look a little more like a dumb charger?
So, what's the best way to set up a hybrid configuration with a generator, a charger, battery, and motor?
Option 1)? ? Are there good 10-20A 48V battery chargers available at a reasonable price (no more than $300?? is that unrealistic?)? so that the generator could drive the battery charger, and the battery charger would charge the battery while powering the motor?? Can the charger handle having a motor draining the battery as fast as the charger is dumping current into it?
Option 2)? A different way to run off the generator might be to run the generator into a 20A 48V switching power supply, and drive the motor directly from the switching power supply, with no battery connected.
In that configuration - when you went from battery power to generator, the motor would switch entirely to run off the generator; the battery would be switched out, and charged (maybe in parallel to the power supply driving the motor) separately.
Option 3)? Would it work to have the generator drive the 20A switching power supply into a MPPT charge controller that fed the battery - then leave the motor connected to the battery?
Thoughts? John
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019, 04:32:29 AM CDT, oak oak_box@... [electricboats] wrote:
?
I've seen 48V, 20A (1000W) DC power supplies for around $80.? Is there any reason NOT to run one of those off the generator, connected to the battery bank, to extend range?
The only concern I can think of is that if the battery bank is low, and you suddenly connect it to a 48V supply, bad things could happen.? If there's a fuse between the power supply and the battery, hopefully the fuse would blow before anything toooo bad??
On Tuesday, October 29, 2019, 06:54:39 PM CDT, bob jennings sabre281@... [electricboats] wrote:
?
When I motor with the generator on seems like I do not get alot out of my Dual Pro 4 charger that chargers each battery independently in order to extend range. So I was thinking of adding a 25 amp Quick Charger because it charges the whole string in series.?
For those that have motoring down pat, do you charge in series with your generator & how's that worked out for you far as extending range without depleting the? battery bank?
Thanks,
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Hi,
I have a 5kw motor, 240ah bank at 48v. The charger I had at the time output 15a. I knew I was going to upgrade to a 25a charger. Sidenote, USBatttery eng. recommend a charger that can do 20% or slightly more of your amp hours. So the 15a was to small.?
Anyway, I ran the math. 48v at 25a is 1200w. 1200w at 120v is 10a. I found a generator at home Depot that ran 1600w continuous with an RV connector. I ran generator connected to my shore power connection. Charger ran 120v to 48v and then the buss.?
I clamped the battery leads and saw 0a, 15a from charger . Throttled up to say 20a, I'd see 15a from charger then 5a out of bank. Tada motor sailing/hybrid gen.
Kind of a sloppy set up but it worked. To do like your saying about gen to motor you'd need some kind of ac-dc drive. 120v in and 48v out with enough amp out to push you along. I'm powering a 30' Newport sailboat, 20a gets me going assuming I don't have a headwind ect. Think about what your pushing. Is 20a enough? If so you'll need something that can do 20a continous with spurts above that for a minute.
Hope I wasn't to confusing.
|
Helpful report.? I have a 10kw drive in my 1978 Tartan 34 with a 100 ah LIFEPO4 battery bank. I wanted to extend my range so I bought a 2kw generator but have not used it , yet. Just for the record, I have an Orion Jr. BMS with switching relays to limit charging and discharge. This winter I am intentionally leaving the battery bank sit at about 50% charge to extend the battery life. I have noticed that I can spin the propellor enough so I think it begins to cavitate. Have you experienced
On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 6:33 PM John Montgomery via Groups.Io <gotz2sail= [email protected]> wrote: Hi,
I have a 5kw motor, 240ah bank at 48v. The charger I had at the time output 15a. I knew I was going to upgrade to a 25a charger. Sidenote, USBatttery eng. recommend a charger that can do 20% or slightly more of your amp hours. So the 15a was to small.?
Anyway, I ran the math. 48v at 25a is 1200w. 1200w at 120v is 10a. I found a generator at home Depot that ran 1600w continuous with an RV connector. I ran generator connected to my shore power connection. Charger ran 120v to 48v and then the buss.?
I clamped the battery leads and saw 0a, 15a from charger . Throttled up to say 20a, I'd see 15a from charger then 5a out of bank. Tada motor sailing/hybrid gen.
Kind of a sloppy set up but it worked. To do like your saying about gen to motor you'd need some kind of ac-dc drive. 120v in and 48v out with enough amp out to push you along. I'm powering a 30' Newport sailboat, 20a gets me going assuming I don't have a headwind ect. Think about what your pushing. Is 20a enough? If so you'll need something that can do 20a continous with spurts above that for a minute.
Hope I wasn't to confusing.
|
Harley, not sure where you're located? but leaving batteries @ 50% SOC to sit over the "winter" will kill them. 50% SOC, they are subject to freezing. Just saying...
Bob
Helpful report.? I have a 10kw drive in my 1978 Tartan 34 with a 100 ah LIFEPO4 battery bank. I wanted to extend my range so I bought a 2kw generator but have not used it , yet. Just for the record, I have an Orion Jr. BMS with switching relays to limit charging and discharge. This winter I am intentionally leaving the battery bank sit at about 50% charge to extend the battery life. I have noticed that I can spin the propellor enough so I think it begins to cavitate. Have you experienced
On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 6:33 PM John Montgomery via Groups.Io <gotz2sail= [email protected]> wrote: Hi,
I have a 5kw motor, 240ah bank at 48v. The charger I had at the time output 15a. I knew I was going to upgrade to a 25a charger. Sidenote, USBatttery eng. recommend a charger that can do 20% or slightly more of your amp hours. So the 15a was to small.?
Anyway, I ran the math. 48v at 25a is 1200w. 1200w at 120v is 10a. I found a generator at home Depot that ran 1600w continuous with an RV connector. I ran generator connected to my shore power connection. Charger ran 120v to 48v and then the buss.?
I clamped the battery leads and saw 0a, 15a from charger . Throttled up to say 20a, I'd see 15a from charger then 5a out of bank. Tada motor sailing/hybrid gen.
Kind of a sloppy set up but it worked. To do like your saying about gen to motor you'd need some kind of ac-dc drive. 120v in and 48v out with enough amp out to push you along. I'm powering a 30' Newport sailboat, 20a gets me going assuming I don't have a headwind ect. Think about what your pushing. Is 20a enough? If so you'll need something that can do 20a continous with spurts above that for a minute.
Hope I wasn't to confusing.
|
nope- ?for LiFePo4 batteries it is recommended to store them at 50%. ?I¡¯ve done both ways over the years with my CALB 180AH ?(20 cells, 64V) either near full charge or about half charge and never see any difference on startup in the spring. Voltage essentially identical to how I leave it in the fall.
That¡¯s the beautiful thing with electric motor and lithium. ?Turn off in the fall, pull battery cable, walk away- ?attach battery cable in the spring and motor to the slip. Just like 7 months of cold northern winter never happened. I¡¯ve not seen any self-discharge whatsoever through the winter.
Also, I have run perfectly in ¡°hybrid¡± fashion by running my 2kW generator connected to shorepower inlet. ?I can go any speed- at low speed will also charge battery ; at full speed will have some of the energy from the generator and the rest from the battery. Or I can pick a speed to show zero charge/discharge for the battery- this was about 4 knots
George Ojdrovich Tartan 34C with 5kW and 11.5kwH battery
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On Jan 11, 2020, at 5:42 PM, Bob Jennings < heatnh@...> wrote: Harley, not sure where you're located? but leaving batteries @ 50% SOC to sit over the "winter" will kill them. 50% SOC, they are subject to freezing. Just saying...
Bob Helpful report.? I have a 10kw drive in my 1978 Tartan 34 with a 100 ah LIFEPO4 battery bank. I wanted to extend my range so I bought a 2kw generator but have not used it , yet. Just for the record, I have an Orion Jr. BMS with switching relays to limit charging and discharge. This winter I am intentionally leaving the battery bank sit at about 50% charge to extend the battery life. I have noticed that I can spin the propellor enough so I think it begins to cavitate. Have you experienced
On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 6:33 PM John Montgomery via Groups.Io <gotz2sail= [email protected]> wrote: Hi,
I have a 5kw motor, 240ah bank at 48v. The charger I had at the time output 15a. I knew I was going to upgrade to a 25a charger. Sidenote, USBatttery eng. recommend a charger that can do 20% or slightly more of your amp hours. So the 15a was to small.?
Anyway, I ran the math. 48v at 25a is 1200w. 1200w at 120v is 10a. I found a generator at home Depot that ran 1600w continuous with an RV connector. I ran generator connected to my shore power connection. Charger ran 120v to 48v and then the buss.?
I clamped the battery leads and saw 0a, 15a from charger . Throttled up to say 20a, I'd see 15a from charger then 5a out of bank. Tada motor sailing/hybrid gen.
Kind of a sloppy set up but it worked. To do like your saying about gen to motor you'd need some kind of ac-dc drive. 120v in and 48v out with enough amp out to push you along. I'm powering a 30' Newport sailboat, 20a gets me going assuming I don't have a headwind ect. Think about what your pushing. Is 20a enough? If so you'll need something that can do 20a continous with spurts above that for a minute.
Hope I wasn't to confusing.
|
Sure, PbA batteries, but not an issue with lithium. ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Jennings
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 4:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electricboats] [Electric Boats] Battery Bank Charging >> How to run "hybrid" with a generator? ? Harley, not sure where you're located? but leaving batteries @ 50% SOC to sit over the "winter" will kill them. 50% SOC, they are subject to freezing. Just saying... ? I have a 10kw drive in my 1978 Tartan 34 with a 100 ah LIFEPO4 battery bank. I wanted to extend my range so I bought a 2kw generator but have not used it , yet. Just for the record, I have an Orion Jr. BMS with switching relays to limit charging and discharge. This winter I am intentionally leaving the battery bank sit at about 50% charge to extend the battery life. I have noticed that I can spin the propellor enough so I think it begins to cavitate. Have you experienced ? On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 6:33 PM John Montgomery via Groups.Io <gotz2sail=[email protected]> wrote: Hi,
I have a 5kw motor, 240ah bank at 48v. The charger I had at the time output 15a. I knew I was going to upgrade to a 25a charger. Sidenote, USBatttery eng. recommend a charger that can do 20% or slightly more of your amp hours. So the 15a was to small.?
Anyway, I ran the math. 48v at 25a is 1200w. 1200w at 120v is 10a. I found a generator at home Depot that ran 1600w continuous with an RV connector. I ran generator connected to my shore power connection. Charger ran 120v to 48v and then the buss.?
I clamped the battery leads and saw 0a, 15a from charger . Throttled up to say 20a, I'd see 15a from charger then 5a out of bank. Tada motor sailing/hybrid gen.
Kind of a sloppy set up but it worked. To do like your saying about gen to motor you'd need some kind of ac-dc drive. 120v in and 48v out with enough amp out to push you along. I'm powering a 30' Newport sailboat, 20a gets me going assuming I don't have a headwind ect. Think about what your pushing. Is 20a enough? If so you'll need something that can do 20a continous with spurts above that for a minute.
Hope I wasn't to confusing.
|
Sorry. Didn't know they were LifePo4's.? Never mind :)
On Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 9:04 PM georgeo < go@...> wrote: nope- ?for LiFePo4 batteries it is recommended to store them at 50%.? I¡¯ve done both ways over the years with my CALB 180AH ?(20 cells, 64V) either near full charge or about half charge and never see any difference on startup in the spring. Voltage essentially identical to how I leave it in the fall.
That¡¯s the beautiful thing with electric motor and lithium.? Turn off in the fall, pull battery cable, walk away- ?attach battery cable in the spring and motor to the slip. Just like 7 months of cold northern winter never happened. I¡¯ve not seen any self-discharge whatsoever through the winter.
Also, I have run perfectly in ¡°hybrid¡± fashion by running my 2kW generator connected to shorepower inlet.? I can go any speed- at low speed will also charge battery ; at full speed will have some of the energy from the generator and the rest from the battery. Or I can pick a speed to show zero charge/discharge for the battery- this was about 4 knots
George Ojdrovich Tartan 34C with 5kW and 11.5kwH battery On Jan 11, 2020, at 5:42 PM, Bob Jennings < heatnh@...> wrote: Harley, not sure where you're located? but leaving batteries @ 50% SOC to sit over the "winter" will kill them. 50% SOC, they are subject to freezing. Just saying...
Bob Helpful report.? I have a 10kw drive in my 1978 Tartan 34 with a 100 ah LIFEPO4 battery bank. I wanted to extend my range so I bought a 2kw generator but have not used it , yet. Just for the record, I have an Orion Jr. BMS with switching relays to limit charging and discharge. This winter I am intentionally leaving the battery bank sit at about 50% charge to extend the battery life. I have noticed that I can spin the propellor enough so I think it begins to cavitate. Have you experienced
On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 6:33 PM John Montgomery via Groups.Io <gotz2sail= [email protected]> wrote: Hi,
I have a 5kw motor, 240ah bank at 48v. The charger I had at the time output 15a. I knew I was going to upgrade to a 25a charger. Sidenote, USBatttery eng. recommend a charger that can do 20% or slightly more of your amp hours. So the 15a was to small.?
Anyway, I ran the math. 48v at 25a is 1200w. 1200w at 120v is 10a. I found a generator at home Depot that ran 1600w continuous with an RV connector. I ran generator connected to my shore power connection. Charger ran 120v to 48v and then the buss.?
I clamped the battery leads and saw 0a, 15a from charger . Throttled up to say 20a, I'd see 15a from charger then 5a out of bank. Tada motor sailing/hybrid gen.
Kind of a sloppy set up but it worked. To do like your saying about gen to motor you'd need some kind of ac-dc drive. 120v in and 48v out with enough amp out to push you along. I'm powering a 30' Newport sailboat, 20a gets me going assuming I don't have a headwind ect. Think about what your pushing. Is 20a enough? If so you'll need something that can do 20a continous with spurts above that for a minute.
Hope I wasn't to confusing.
|
