Ok, ball park...? How much is one of these things?? ? 200 pounds doesn't sound bad for a diesel gen.

On Friday, November 29, 2024 at 10:52:46 AM CST, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:

Is this a Buccaneer 32?

Have you confirmed is actual service the 60 amps at 3.5 to 4 knots?? If you get the reduction and prop sizing right you might do better than that.? I have a similar sized boat (33ft, 12,500 lbs, 28.33 LWL) and at 4 knots I use about 30 amps.

7 to 7.5 kts may not be reachable though.? Not in a practical way.? But I do get to 85% hull speed (apr. 6 kts ) at 100 amps. ?

I was planning for a 12kW generator (using same ME1616 motor as generator) but after running for several seasons I think that's overkill.? 6 to 8 kW would do what I need.

I would look at a DC generator.? I saw these guys at Annapolis Baot Show.? Very interesting and maybe ahead of the curve in offerings?



Details on my installation here (with data):



Dan Pfeiffer
?

On 2024-11-29 11:12 am, Dale Shomette via wrote:

I have a 32' Bayliner sailboat (now dismasted) that I've gutted and am turning it into an electric hybrid. It has an 8 battery (185 a/h 12 volt each) battery bank of AGM Oddysey batteries to power a (to be purchased) ElectricYacht 2.0, 48 volt motor drive system. I have 8 solar panels, 100watts each to augment the two Fischer Panda 48 volt 10kw diesel gen. sets. I've taken the 13' mainmast spar and am stepping it where the main master was, with a 500watt wind generator mounted on top. To flesh it out a bit more, I've installed a separate 4 battery bank forward as the house batteries, with a 200watt PV on the forward cabin top to keep them topped up.

? Having said all that, I'd like to configure the 800 watt set of PVs to meet the 48 (actually need 54-6) volt requirement to charge the 8 battery bank but also maximize amperage. 10-11amps/hrs isn't much to plug into a 370amp bank.

The ElectricYacht will need roughly 60 amp/hr for a 3.5-4knot speed, up to 270 amps/hrs to reach a 7- 7.5 knot hll speed. The gen sets can run the motors by themselves and/or charge the batteries but I would like to get as much quiet time propulsion as possible. The gen. sets only put out 60 decibels of noise but would like to keep their use to a minimum. How would you do the overall PV / wind turbine configuration, and voltage and amperage to the battery bank? Should I utilize one 4? 185amp 48 volt bank at a time or use and charge both at the same time? Other insight would be appreciated. Thanks so much.

Dale

?

Ok, ball park...? How much is one of these things?? ? 200 pounds doesn't sound bad for a diesel gen.

On Friday, November 29, 2024 at 10:52:46 AM CST, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:

Is this a Buccaneer 32?

Have you confirmed is actual service the 60 amps at 3.5 to 4 knots?? If you get the reduction and prop sizing right you might do better than that.? I have a similar sized boat (33ft, 12,500 lbs, 28.33 LWL) and at 4 knots I use about 30 amps.

7 to 7.5 kts may not be reachable though.? Not in a practical way.? But I do get to 85% hull speed (apr. 6 kts ) at 100 amps. ?

I was planning for a 12kW generator (using same ME1616 motor as generator) but after running for several seasons I think that's overkill.? 6 to 8 kW would do what I need.

I would look at a DC generator.? I saw these guys at Annapolis Baot Show.? Very interesting and maybe ahead of the curve in offerings?



Details on my installation here (with data):



Dan Pfeiffer
?

On 2024-11-29 11:12 am, Dale Shomette via wrote:

I have a 32' Bayliner sailboat (now dismasted) that I've gutted and am turning it into an electric hybrid. It has an 8 battery (185 a/h 12 volt each) battery bank of AGM Oddysey batteries to power a (to be purchased) ElectricYacht 2.0, 48 volt motor drive system. I have 8 solar panels, 100watts each to augment the two Fischer Panda 48 volt 10kw diesel gen. sets. I've taken the 13' mainmast spar and am stepping it where the main master was, with a 500watt wind generator mounted on top. To flesh it out a bit more, I've installed a separate 4 battery bank forward as the house batteries, with a 200watt PV on the forward cabin top to keep them topped up.

? Having said all that, I'd like to configure the 800 watt set of PVs to meet the 48 (actually need 54-6) volt requirement to charge the 8 battery bank but also maximize amperage. 10-11amps/hrs isn't much to plug into a 370amp bank.

The ElectricYacht will need roughly 60 amp/hr for a 3.5-4knot speed, up to 270 amps/hrs to reach a 7- 7.5 knot hll speed. The gen sets can run the motors by themselves and/or charge the batteries but I would like to get as much quiet time propulsion as possible. The gen. sets only put out 60 decibels of noise but would like to keep their use to a minimum. How would you do the overall PV / wind turbine configuration, and voltage and amperage to the battery bank? Should I utilize one 4? 185amp 48 volt bank at a time or use and charge both at the same time? Other insight would be appreciated. Thanks so much.

Dale

?

Im no expert but I have a comparable? setup with a catalina 30 with a 48v lifepo4 battery bank.? I get about 30 amps at 4 knots, 60 amps at 5, 90 amps at 6.? Prop is 12" diameter 6" pitch.? Hope that info helps.

If it were me I'd get one generator and put the rest of the cash into higher output solar panels and one or more lifepo4 battery banks.? I don't know the size of your panels but 8 x 100 panels seems like low output for the footprint, isn't it?

8 400 watt panels would be nice, and make lots of power if you had a bank big enough to store it.

Just some thoughts -

Agree that lead acid is stone age…not sure if I agree about non-LiFePo lithium options---I’ve been powering my boat now for maybe 10 years with ex-THINK Enerdel lithium-ion batteries with absolutely no issues.

Last purchase of used batteries saw me offering $1200 for 24kwh of lithium --- i.d. about 5cents/watt-hour.

The batteries are probably good for 10 more years.

Compare that to new lead-acid: Won’t last much more than 7 years and will cost about 15cents/watt-hour.

And lead-acid requires maintenance, doesn’t like just sitting there floating for months and just never gives you confidence you’ll have the capacity for that trip you’re about to embark on….

?

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of twowheelinguy via
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 5:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Complex design issues

?

LEAD IS DEAD! LiFePo is an acceptable chemistry for marine applications.? Stay away from anything with cobalt in it and you'll be fine.?

?

I ran lead acid for over 10 years, went through three 48V banks of GC-2 6 Volt golf cart batteries which are some of the most robust lead acid batteries you can get. Recently made the switch to LiFePo and there is no comparison. Lead acid is in the Stone Age compared to lithium and yo can get top quality lithium batteries on Amazon for cheaper than some AGMs now.?

?

Capt. Carter

?

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On Friday, November 29, 2024 at 10:44:51 PM EST, Dale Shomette via <dashoway@...> wrote:

?

?

Thanks Luke. I already have both generators and unfortunately bout the 100 watt PVs before I had researched it. I'm still concerned about lifepo battery's as lithium tends to blow up in a potential water environment and management is a bigger deal. I've been using Enersys Odyssey? 1800 PC AGM batteries and after 10 years they're still putting out 12.6 to 12.8 volts. They're less expensive than lifepo4s and easier (as I'm an old guy) to maintain. Your right though, I wish I had invested in eight 300watt PVs. Unfortunately,
I also only have room for 8 motor batteries and the house batteries. I've forgotten the size and pitch of my prop....gotta check that. Thanks
Dale

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On Fri, Nov 29, 2024, 8:03 PM Luke Johnson via <Jukelohnson=[email protected]> wrote:

Im no expert but I have a comparable? setup with a catalina 30 with a 48v lifepo4 battery bank.? I get about 30 amps at 4 knots, 60 amps at 5, 90 amps at 6.? Prop is 12" diameter 6" pitch.? Hope that info helps.

?

If it were me I'd get one generator and put the rest of the cash into higher output solar panels and one or more lifepo4 battery banks.? I don't know the size of your panels but 8 x 100 panels seems like low output for the footprint, isn't it?

?

8 400 watt panels would be nice, and make lots of power if you had a bank big enough to store it.

?

Just some thoughts -

?

I'm using 6 110 watt panels and 2 Victron charge controllers (3 panels wired in series on each) to charge my 3 48V Dakota Lithium batteries with no issues other than the amount of time required.? I think the bigger issue is where you're located.? I'm on Lake Ontario and I'm getting only around 10 - 15% efficiency even on the sunniest days in the summer due to cloud cover and our northern lattitude.

“…..or am I way off? 100watts/12volts =8.33 amps x 4 =33.3 .......100watts/18volts= 5.5amps x 4= 22.2amps……”

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You are way off.

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You “add voltage in series” and “add amps in parallel”.

?

So your 4x100watt 12 to18V panels get you 48 to 72 Volts at 5.5 to 8.33 Amps. Then times 2 (for your two strings in parallel) gives your solar array a max output of 72 Volts at 16.66 amps with a minimum of 0 Volts and 0 amps (like at night). 16.66 Amps is the max even though it would only be 16.66 at 48 Volts, it is still the max Amps. And the only reason to know the max amps is to size the wire from the panels to the controller.

So whatever controller you use needs to be able to handle this max Voltage output as the controllers input. So you could probably get by with a 100 Volt controller as your panel array is set up now.

?

On Solar controllers the listed Voltage is the max input but the Amps listed are the max output. Your Max output Amps is determined by max Watts of combined solar panel output divided by battery pack voltage. In your case 800W/48v=16.66A (a battery depleted all the way down to 40V would get you 20A). So a 20A output controller would work for you.

So it would seem that you need a 100v 20A solar controller. You must now make sure that the one you use has capability to output for 48V batteries (I have one 100V30A controller that will only charge 12V or 24V batteries, but its OK cause I have several 12V and a couple 24V battery packs).

It just so happens that Victron makes a 100V/20A@48V controller. I have a Victron 150V/35A@48V. I also have a BougeRV 150/40@48V and I am very happy with all my controllers, none of them have failed me yet.

?

Just realize that all the rated Watts, Volts, and Amps of any solar panels are THEORITICAL maximums. If you were to see an actual 100 Watts from a 100 Watt panel, you might be the first. I have some 440’s that I have never seen more than around 375 Watts. And if the voltage drops on your panel, the amps will usually drop also because its from a lack of sun. So you will never see 8.33 Amps at12V or the full 5.5 Amps at 18V, but that’s what you use to size the controller.

?

If the voltage from your solar panels drop below the minimum needed to charge it will simply stop charging.

A good solar controller will regulate the output voltage to whatever is best to charge the batteries connected to it, this is why usually you have to hook up the batteries to the controller first, so it can sense the voltage of the batteries it is trying to charge, but you will have to set the chemistry type and maybe the settings for your particular battery pack.

Any controller will use some of the voltage and/or amps from the solar panels for operation, so there will be some voltage drop across the controller. This is normal and at least one reason that actual voltage input needs to be more than planned voltage output. This is known as a voltage step-down converter. I don’t know of any SOLAR battery charger/converters that will step up AND down. They might be out there somewhere, but I don’t know of any, I have only ever seen solar step-down charger/converters. Now if you were charging a higher Voltage battery with a lower voltage battery, you could use a DC to D/C step-up converter, but those only go up, not up and down.