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One engine down...looking for solutions/suggestions

 

I have a 42¡¯ twin daggerboard sailing cat that displaces 16,500 lbs loaded. Two Volvo md 2030 diesels with approx 4000 hrs. Have been keeping both of these dirty beasts alive with requirement of lots of time, petroleum products, spare parts, and, skinned knuckles. Have been preparing for the day when one or both would go down and require major maintenance requiring either replacing or major rebuild.

The day arrived yesterday. Looks like compression down in three cylinders. Probably need to pull engine. Head gasket, valves, piston rings? Who knows? Maybe all of the above¡­I am very tired of sweaty engine room yoga, loosing gallons of water in sweat at a time, and surely years off of my life.

My family have been liveaboards since 2014 and came back from 1.5 yrs in South Pacific recently. Planning to take boat soon into Micronesia and Asia, but need a good solution first. The boat sails well and so we mostly sail, would like to have regen, and need short bursts of full power getting in and out of tricky atoll passes at times.

Really wanting to repower with electric, but don¡¯t have a specific system in my mind yet. Not sure I have the know-how to pull it off elegantly and well either, but willing to try.

Looking for suggestions on a mostly plug and play (with installation modifications of course) system or if anyone has done a similar repower and have list of system components I could peruse as I gather info. Looked at the 48 v liquid cooled Motenergy thunder alley kit. Anyone have any experience with these? Cost is a factor, can¡¯t afford the Oceanvolt ServoProp systems.

Was thinking of leaving the sail drive with the three blade folding prop in place and building a system that incorporates the vertical shaft that goes into the sail drive leg. Don¡¯t know the rpm¡¯s it would have to spin yet, but has anyone done this?

Likely looking at a ~ 10 kw 48 v batt system, like the looks of the battle born product but too pricey. Not sure I have the skills to assemble my own with a decent bms. Need reliability and safety. Will be in lots of isolated places and not interested in incinerating the boat and family.

All thoughts appreciated as I start my search/process.

Thank you for any time, input, and your collective wisdom as my family struggles through this next project.

Flip

--
Flip
42' Catamaran
 

Now this a problem I wish I had lol. Will be following this thread with interest. By the way, do you?have a website or blog for your sailing adventures?. Or will you have one for your future electric/sailing adventures?. Or document the conversion of your Catamaran?. I¡¯m sure there¡¯s lots of others here?who would like to follow the conversion.?I have childhood friend who is retiring and wanting to do something very similar. And perhaps I¡¯ll graduate from converting a old farm tractor to electric to a electric?boat conversion?myself someday.?
?Good luck?




On Tuesday, April 27, 2021, 10:14 PM, fvontrampe via groups.io <fvontrampe@...> wrote:

I have a 42¡¯ twin daggerboard sailing cat that displaces 16,500 lbs loaded.? Two Volvo md 2030 diesels with approx 4000 hrs.? Have been keeping both of these dirty beasts alive with requirement of lots of time, petroleum products, spare parts, and, skinned knuckles.? Have been preparing for the day when one or both would go down and require major maintenance requiring either replacing or major rebuild.

The day arrived yesterday.? Looks like compression down in three cylinders.? Probably need to pull engine.? Head gasket, valves, piston rings?? Who knows?? Maybe all of the above¡­I am very tired of sweaty engine room yoga, loosing gallons of water in sweat at a time, and surely years off of my life.

My family have been liveaboards since 2014 and came back from 1.5 yrs in South Pacific recently. Planning to take boat soon into Micronesia and Asia, but need a good solution first.? The boat sails well and so we mostly sail, would like to have regen, and need short bursts of full power getting in and out of tricky atoll passes at times.

Really wanting to repower with electric, but don¡¯t have a specific system in my mind yet.? Not sure I have the know-how to pull it off elegantly and well either, but willing to try.

Looking for suggestions on a mostly plug and play (with installation modifications of course) system or if anyone has done a similar repower and have list of system components I could peruse as I gather info.? Looked at the 48 v liquid cooled Motenergy thunder alley kit.? Anyone have any experience with these?? Cost is a factor, can¡¯t afford the Oceanvolt ServoProp systems.

Was thinking of leaving the sail drive with the three blade folding prop in place and building a system that incorporates the vertical shaft that goes into the sail drive leg.? Don¡¯t know the rpm¡¯s it would have to spin yet, but has anyone done this?

Likely looking at a ~ 10 kw 48 v batt system, like the looks of the battle born product but too pricey.? Not sure I have the skills to assemble my own with a decent bms.? Need reliability and safety.? Will be in lots of isolated places and not interested in incinerating the boat and family.

All thoughts appreciated as I start my search/process.

Thank you for any time, input, and your collective wisdom as my family struggles through this next project.

Flip

--
Flip
42' Catamaran
 
Edited

Flip,
It sounds like you used your motors well if they each have 4000hrs on them.? The Volvo is MD 2030 is closer to a 20kW motor than a 10kW.? A single 10kW system would be working hard to push the boat at 5.5kts in calm seas.? You may want to consider re-powering with a 20kW system and consider adding a 48v alternator to the diesel.

?

Kts???????? Watts

2.2???????? 480

2.7???????? 960

3.5???????? 1920

4.0???????? 2880

4.4???????? 3840

4.7???????? 4800

5.0???????? 5760

5.2???????? 6720

5.5???????? 7680

5.7???????? 8160? This is about max continuous power from a 10kW system

5.9???????? 9120

6.3???????? 11040

6.8???????? 13920

7.1???????? 15840

7.3???????? 17760?

7.4???????? 18720? Did the Volvo likely pushed your boat at about 7.6kts at full power

8.0???????? 23520?

8.5???????? 28320

9.0???????? 32640

9.4???????? 37440

9.8???????? 42240

Traditional Estimated Hull speed????????? 8.47??????

Mike? Electric Yacht
 

Hi Jeremy,?

never been much of a poster or social media person, so no blog for me. ?If I learn something valuable in this process, I will try to summarize and post for others to benefit. ?
Fair winds,?
Flip
--
Flip
42' Catamaran
 

Hi Mike,?

Thanks for your thoughts. ?

We use the engines very modestly, but our desalinator is run off of our sb engine (uses a power washer head as the pressurizer), so that has been the main reason for the high hours. ?Port side has a high output Balmar alternator, and before converting to lithium house bank, it saw some use for charging. ?Now don't need it. ?In all, we have only put 1000 hours on each engine in 7 years, and mostly not for motoring, although we try to combine our tasks (motor and watermarking or charging). ?

I will think about upsizing, because there have been times when we needed max power for 30-45 ?minutes to get into our out of a pass against current/waves/wind. ?And we ?really needed everything that the diesels could give just to inch forward. ?Very unusual, and with better planning could have avoided it. ?

On the other hand, people have sailed the same spots without engines, so it may just be a matter of adjusting expectations and allowing inconvenience not to frustrate and then live with a 12 kw system. ?
--
Flip
42' Catamaran
 

I think there are two issues that electric yachters have to address and the answers will likely be different for different kinds of users.

?

1: What is the fastest speed I can go and for how long?

Speed and draw are not linear. You might triple the draw to double the speed. And of course at some point "going faster" becomes impractical regardless of how the motor is powered.

You'll want to figure out how fast you NEED to be able to go and for how long, and then work backwards to find a motor that can deliver that much power, and then work backwards to figure out how big a bank of batteries you'll need to support that load.

I suspect this is much more complicated for a cat than a monohull.

?

2: What is the longest time you want to be able to run the motor at a SOG you consider acceptable?

There will be a point on the graph of speed and power draw where the boat is moving fast enough to be acceptable, and the draw is low enough to allow a fairly extended range. Once you determine that point, you can extrapolate how big a bank of batteries you will want to have to determine the distances you can cross with the motor. Practically speaking, that is going to be somewhere around 40nm in flat seas with no wind. If you have requirements to be able to motor a longer distance you'll have to look at extraordinarily large battery banks, or battery options that will take you away from LiFePo4.

?

Compounding this analysis is the idea that the prop size for an electric motor may not be the same size as for a diesel, and you may want to try and do regen while sailing which likely means you won't use a folding prop.

?

The final thing you need to consider is how to charge the battery bank. If you want to rely on solar you'll need to think about how much solar you can install on your boat. You can make about 7.5A at 48V per 100W of solar per day for an "average day". If you had a 400A bank and you wanted to charge the bank in one day, you'd need 5,300W of solar.

You might want to install a generator for the purpose of charging the batteries. That means you will still have to keep fuel storage and polishing, exhaust, and other systems for that motor, and you'll still be doing routine maintenance; but you may do a lot less depending on how much you have to run that generator.
 

I have a 12m cat displacing over 20,000# and have installed a pair of Motenergy 10kW water-cooled motors from thunderstruck-ev.com. Their motor mount/reduction made installation straight forward. I have a top speed of 6.3 knots and top cruise if 6.0 knots ?I¡¯d suggest building your LFP pack with Winston, CALB or Sinopoly cells ?I have a Chargery BMS from AliExpress 600A that works for me ?

you should be able to calculate your reduction using data from your existing motors and hopefully use your existing shaft and props ?


im willing to share any info you¡¯d like?

?
 

Oh, I would be very interested in your current draw vs speed in different conditions - flat, 1m seas. Are you running 48v?

Thanks


On Sat, 1 May 2021, 7:58 am Reuben Trane via , <rjtrane=[email protected]> wrote:

I have a 12m cat displacing over 20,000# and have installed a pair of Motenergy 10kW water-cooled motors from . Their motor mount/reduction made installation straight forward. I have a top speed of 6.3 knots and top cruise if 6.0 knots ?I¡¯d suggest building your LFP pack with Winston, CALB or Sinopoly cells ?I have a Chargery BMS from AliExpress 600A that works for me ?

you should be able to calculate your reduction using data from your existing motors and hopefully use your existing shaft and props ?


im willing to share any info you¡¯d like?

?
 

Thank you for the info. ?

May I ask how large you made your lfp pack? ?Amp hours or kWh and weight? ?You suggest three types of cells. ?Any thoughts on pros and cons of each? ?Approximate cost of battery set up would be helpful too if you don't mind sharing. ?Was going to use my sail drive (Volvo 120 s) and try to either have a direct mount off of the vertical drive shaft going down the sail leg or do a pulley and belt like Carsten suggested. ?
--
Flip
42' Catamaran
 

Here are our sea trial and rank test curves. The center one is current configuration with 10kW/48v motors - calm water. I have no other data.?


Curve at left was with Steyr hybrid using 7kW Iskra motors via sail drives. Right 2 curves are tank test and sea trial with 18kW/240v motors at design weight. We would have had similar results with 10kW motors had we met the design weight.?
 

I built my battery pack using 1,000AH Winston cells.

I have visited CALB (Chinese AirForce Lithium Battery) - modern facilities. Sinopoly purchased Sky Energy from Winston, who then started a new company using his name. I feel all 3 to be reputable.



Cells are about 93# each.
[email protected]
 

Hi Flip

I have a similar issue one of my 2002 engines is 35 years old and not got a bright future, rather than a rebuild, an electric motor fitted to the S120C saildrive is my preferred option.? Have you considered using the rear gearbox mount only or building a frame to utilize the 2 diesel mounts as well to handle the lateral force from the rotating prop?

I will be watching your progress with interest. Motor direct coupled to vertical shaft is intriguing

Tim
33ft Imp Catamaran
 

Seems that saildrive conversions is a recurrent issue here.
Have any of you ever made a conversion to electric on a saildrive ?

I would like a direct driven solution too.
But I need an electro motor optimized for 1600-2200 RPM. Not 5000.
Do any of you know a supplier who can deliver such low rev (optimized) motors ?
Do we have to go to China for this, or are there still qualified suppliers in the West ?

For power rating, my Volvo Penta 100S saildrive is supposed to be supporting a 24 HP diesel.
But the torque, and the torque forces when changing direction (eg. from full forward to full backward) might not be a good cup of tea for the small gear wheels of the lower part, as electric powered motors has so much more torque power.

Please comment :-)



On Tuesday, 4 May 2021, 21:20:25 GMT+8, Timdownes61@... <timdownes61@...> wrote:


Hi Flip

I have a similar issue one of my 2002 engines is 35 years old and not got a bright future, rather than a rebuild, an electric motor fitted to the S120C saildrive is my preferred option.? Have you considered using the rear gearbox mount only or building a frame to utilize the 2 diesel mounts as well to handle the lateral force from the rotating prop?

I will be watching your progress with interest. Motor direct coupled to vertical shaft is intriguing

Tim
33ft Imp Catamaran

 

I¡¯m looking at doing the same conversion. I have the 120s with a couple tired VP D2-40s. My concern was the increased immediate load vs the ramped up torque via the ICE. Would love to get it installed by end of year!

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 9:32 AM Carsten via <Carstensemail=[email protected]> wrote:
Seems that saildrive conversions is a recurrent issue here.
Have any of you ever made a conversion to electric on a saildrive ?

I would like a direct driven solution too.
But I need an electro motor optimized for 1600-2200 RPM. Not 5000.
Do any of you know a supplier who can deliver such low rev (optimized) motors ?
Do we have to go to China for this, or are there still qualified suppliers in the West ?

For power rating, my Volvo Penta 100S saildrive is supposed to be supporting a 24 HP diesel.
But the torque, and the torque forces when changing direction (eg. from full forward to full backward) might not be a good cup of tea for the small gear wheels of the lower part, as electric powered motors has so much more torque power.

Please comment :-)



On Tuesday, 4 May 2021, 21:20:25 GMT+8, Timdownes61@... <timdownes61@...> wrote:


Hi Flip

I have a similar issue one of my 2002 engines is 35 years old and not got a bright future, rather than a rebuild, an electric motor fitted to the S120C saildrive is my preferred option.? Have you considered using the rear gearbox mount only or building a frame to utilize the 2 diesel mounts as well to handle the lateral force from the rotating prop?

I will be watching your progress with interest. Motor direct coupled to vertical shaft is intriguing

Tim
33ft Imp Catamaran

 

Well, I see your point, Steven. Same as my concern.

Diesels are damned slow in everything, as they just are, well, diesels.
So you need to slow it down, put the gear in neutral, and then engage reverse.
So, not much stress to any of the gears.

Using an electric motor it is a beast to be tamed, compared to the diesel, because it has the power from outside, readily avaiable at all times. Cold or hot, no start-up needed. Just GO. One way or the other. Doesn't matter.

So, my question now :
Can the electric motor torque (rough) be tamed by the motor controller, just by programming (torque min/max, by the amps applied to it) , to make a "smooth shift" from forward to reverse, so I don't crash my saildrive's internal gear ?

I'm a ME, not an EE.
But, still trying to learn everything what's going with those funny electrons...

All qualified, please comment on this.



On Thursday, 6 May 2021, 22:16:59 GMT+8, Steven Chmura <chmura.steve@...> wrote:


I¡¯m looking at doing the same conversion. I have the 120s with a couple tired VP D2-40s. My concern was the increased immediate load vs the ramped up torque via the ICE. Would love to get it installed by end of year!

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 9:32 AM Carsten via <Carstensemail=[email protected]> wrote:
Seems that saildrive conversions is a recurrent issue here.
Have any of you ever made a conversion to electric on a saildrive ?

I would like a direct driven solution too.
But I need an electro motor optimized for 1600-2200 RPM. Not 5000.
Do any of you know a supplier who can deliver such low rev (optimized) motors ?
Do we have to go to China for this, or are there still qualified suppliers in the West ?

For power rating, my Volvo Penta 100S saildrive is supposed to be supporting a 24 HP diesel.
But the torque, and the torque forces when changing direction (eg. from full forward to full backward) might not be a good cup of tea for the small gear wheels of the lower part, as electric powered motors has so much more torque power.

Please comment :-)



On Tuesday, 4 May 2021, 21:20:25 GMT+8, Timdownes61@... <timdownes61@...> wrote:


Hi Flip

I have a similar issue one of my 2002 engines is 35 years old and not got a bright future, rather than a rebuild, an electric motor fitted to the S120C saildrive is my preferred option.? Have you considered using the rear gearbox mount only or building a frame to utilize the 2 diesel mounts as well to handle the lateral force from the rotating prop?

I will be watching your progress with interest. Motor direct coupled to vertical shaft is intriguing

Tim
33ft Imp Catamaran

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Carsten/Steve,

Purpose built "low" rpm motors are hard to come by. They are heavier and more expensive. Check out Bellmarine.?

Electric motors can be as beastly or gentle as you desire. Pretty much any controller on the market can be programmed for ramp speed, torque, fwd to rev delay/speed, etc. Can also be programmed to not "start" in "gear" or on high throttle for extra safety.?



Matt Foley

Sunlight Conversions?
1-201-914-0466
Sunlightconversions.com
Instagram:sunlightconversions
WeChat: Mattymoonshine

Sent from mobile device?

On May 6, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Steven Chmura <chmura.steve@...> wrote:

?
I¡¯m looking at doing the same conversion. I have the 120s with a couple tired VP D2-40s. My concern was the increased immediate load vs the ramped up torque via the ICE. Would love to get it installed by end of year!

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 9:32 AM Carsten via <Carstensemail=[email protected]> wrote:
Seems that saildrive conversions is a recurrent issue here.
Have any of you ever made a conversion to electric on a saildrive ?

I would like a direct driven solution too.
But I need an electro motor optimized for 1600-2200 RPM. Not 5000.
Do any of you know a supplier who can deliver such low rev (optimized) motors ?
Do we have to go to China for this, or are there still qualified suppliers in the West ?

For power rating, my Volvo Penta 100S saildrive is supposed to be supporting a 24 HP diesel.
But the torque, and the torque forces when changing direction (eg. from full forward to full backward) might not be a good cup of tea for the small gear wheels of the lower part, as electric powered motors has so much more torque power.

Please comment :-)



On Tuesday, 4 May 2021, 21:20:25 GMT+8, Timdownes61@... <timdownes61@...> wrote:


Hi Flip

I have a similar issue one of my 2002 engines is 35 years old and not got a bright future, rather than a rebuild, an electric motor fitted to the S120C saildrive is my preferred option.? Have you considered using the rear gearbox mount only or building a frame to utilize the 2 diesel mounts as well to handle the lateral force from the rotating prop?

I will be watching your progress with interest. Motor direct coupled to vertical shaft is intriguing

Tim
33ft Imp Catamaran

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Acceleration curves can be programmed into the controller to deal with this problem.? Also an issue with feathering/folding props.?? I don't know the details on this yet but I will need to look into it to protect my feathering prop.?


This guy from Finland did a saildrive conversion on a Volvo unit (MB/2).? It is a smaller application but may be useful to look at.


He starts talking about the sail drive at about 8:30 into this video.? He fabricates the mounting for the motor in his next couple of videos.







Dan Pfeiffer

?




On 2021-05-06 9:58 am, Carsten via groups.io wrote:

?
Well, I see your point, Steven. Same as my concern.
?
Diesels are damned slow in everything, as they just are, well, diesels.
So you need to slow it down, put the gear in neutral, and then engage reverse.
So, not much stress to any of the gears.
?
Using an electric motor it is a beast to be tamed, compared to the diesel, because it has the power from outside, readily avaiable at all times. Cold or hot, no start-up needed. Just GO. One way or the other. Doesn't matter.
?
So, my question now :
Can the electric motor torque (rough) be tamed by the motor controller, just by programming (torque min/max, by the amps applied to it) , to make a "smooth shift" from forward to reverse, so I don't crash my saildrive's internal gear ?
?
I'm a ME, not an EE.
But, still trying to learn everything what's going with those funny electrons...
?
All qualified, please comment on this.
?
?
?
On Thursday, 6 May 2021, 22:16:59 GMT+8, Steven Chmura <chmura.steve@...> wrote:
?
?
I'm looking at doing the same conversion. I have the 120s with a couple tired VP D2-40s. My concern was the increased immediate load vs the ramped up torque via the ICE. Would love to get it installed by end of year!

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 9:32 AM Carsten via <Carstensemail=[email protected]> wrote:
?
Seems that saildrive conversions is a recurrent issue here.
Have any of you ever made a conversion to electric on a saildrive ?
?
I would like a direct driven solution too.
But I need an electro motor optimized for 1600-2200 RPM. Not 5000.
Do any of you know a supplier who can deliver such low rev (optimized) motors ?
Do we have to go to China for this, or are there still qualified suppliers in the West ?
?
For power rating, my Volvo Penta 100S saildrive is supposed to be supporting a 24 HP diesel.
But the torque, and the torque forces when changing direction (eg. from full forward to full backward) might not be a good cup of tea for the small gear wheels of the lower part, as electric powered motors has so much more torque power.
?
Please comment :-)
?
?
?
On Tuesday, 4 May 2021, 21:20:25 GMT+8, Timdownes61@... <timdownes61@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Flip

I have a similar issue one of my 2002 engines is 35 years old and not got a bright future, rather than a rebuild, an electric motor fitted to the S120C saildrive is my preferred option.? Have you considered using the rear gearbox mount only or building a frame to utilize the 2 diesel mounts as well to handle the lateral force from the rotating prop?

I will be watching your progress with interest. Motor direct coupled to vertical shaft is intriguing

Tim
33ft Imp Catamaran
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I used the water cooler version of that to convert a Honda 2.3. I would have a preferred something around 2kw, but couldn't find anything suitable. My only complaint is the weight and noise. While quieter than the Honda, it sounds eerily similar. If you weren't paying close attention you wouldn't realize it was no longer burning gasoline, sound at leas wise at least. Those Honda's are super smelly.?

The motor in the video is way quieter than mine for some reason.?

Matt Foley

Sunlight Conversions?
1-201-914-0466
Sunlightconversions.com
Instagram:sunlightconversions
WeChat: Mattymoonshine

Sent from mobile device?

On May 6, 2021, at 11:39 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:

?

Acceleration curves can be programmed into the controller to deal with this problem.? Also an issue with feathering/folding props.?? I don't know the details on this yet but I will need to look into it to protect my feathering prop.?


This guy from Finland did a saildrive conversion on a Volvo unit (MB/2).? It is a smaller application but may be useful to look at.


He starts talking about the sail drive at about 8:30 into this video.? He fabricates the mounting for the motor in his next couple of videos.







Dan Pfeiffer

?




On 2021-05-06 9:58 am, Carsten via groups.io wrote:

?
Well, I see your point, Steven. Same as my concern.
?
Diesels are damned slow in everything, as they just are, well, diesels.
So you need to slow it down, put the gear in neutral, and then engage reverse.
So, not much stress to any of the gears.
?
Using an electric motor it is a beast to be tamed, compared to the diesel, because it has the power from outside, readily avaiable at all times. Cold or hot, no start-up needed. Just GO. One way or the other. Doesn't matter.
?
So, my question now :
Can the electric motor torque (rough) be tamed by the motor controller, just by programming (torque min/max, by the amps applied to it) , to make a "smooth shift" from forward to reverse, so I don't crash my saildrive's internal gear ?
?
I'm a ME, not an EE.
But, still trying to learn everything what's going with those funny electrons...
?
All qualified, please comment on this.
?
?
?
On Thursday, 6 May 2021, 22:16:59 GMT+8, Steven Chmura <chmura.steve@...> wrote:
?
?
I'm looking at doing the same conversion. I have the 120s with a couple tired VP D2-40s. My concern was the increased immediate load vs the ramped up torque via the ICE. Would love to get it installed by end of year!

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 9:32 AM Carsten via <Carstensemail=[email protected]> wrote:
?
Seems that saildrive conversions is a recurrent issue here.
Have any of you ever made a conversion to electric on a saildrive ?
?
I would like a direct driven solution too.
But I need an electro motor optimized for 1600-2200 RPM. Not 5000.
Do any of you know a supplier who can deliver such low rev (optimized) motors ?
Do we have to go to China for this, or are there still qualified suppliers in the West ?
?
For power rating, my Volvo Penta 100S saildrive is supposed to be supporting a 24 HP diesel.
But the torque, and the torque forces when changing direction (eg. from full forward to full backward) might not be a good cup of tea for the small gear wheels of the lower part, as electric powered motors has so much more torque power.
?
Please comment :-)
?
?
?
On Tuesday, 4 May 2021, 21:20:25 GMT+8, Timdownes61@... <timdownes61@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Flip

I have a similar issue one of my 2002 engines is 35 years old and not got a bright future, rather than a rebuild, an electric motor fitted to the S120C saildrive is my preferred option.? Have you considered using the rear gearbox mount only or building a frame to utilize the 2 diesel mounts as well to handle the lateral force from the rotating prop?

I will be watching your progress with interest. Motor direct coupled to vertical shaft is intriguing

Tim
33ft Imp Catamaran
 

I'm sure some people will cringe....but these large outrunner drone motors are very efficient. There are several manufacturers of motors like this:
?
APS 24050 Outrunner BLDC motor 50KV 40KW Paramotor
alienpowersystem.com
This motor will get into the desired RPM range at 48V and below 10kW it will be very efficient. Of course it will also be able to produce more power when needed. Also there is a series of open-source drives available on the market that are very well designed...
?
Welcome to the Home of E-Motion! What ever is on your mind, the Vesc-Environment will help you to achieve your goals faster. E-Motion is the key to success for the most innovative products of the near future.
vesc-project.com
I know many will say they are not hardened for the marine environment but they certainly can be. If I were doing this kind of conversion on a saildrive I would look hard at components like this.
?
Jamie
 

So, my question now :
Can the electric motor torque (rough) be tamed by the motor controller, just by programming (torque min/max, by the amps applied to it) , to make a "smooth shift" from forward to reverse, so I don't crash my saildrive's internal gear ?


On? my Kelly controller, when I go from reverse to forward, it slows down gradually, then slowly ramps back up.

On Thu, May 6, 2021, 9:58 AM Carsten via <Carstensemail=[email protected]> wrote:
Well, I see your point, Steven. Same as my concern.

Diesels are damned slow in everything, as they just are, well, diesels.
So you need to slow it down, put the gear in neutral, and then engage reverse.
So, not much stress to any of the gears.

Using an electric motor it is a beast to be tamed, compared to the diesel, because it has the power from outside, readily avaiable at all times. Cold or hot, no start-up needed. Just GO. One way or the other. Doesn't matter.

So, my question now :
Can the electric motor torque (rough) be tamed by the motor controller, just by programming (torque min/max, by the amps applied to it) , to make a "smooth shift" from forward to reverse, so I don't crash my saildrive's internal gear ?

I'm a ME, not an EE.
But, still trying to learn everything what's going with those funny electrons...

All qualified, please comment on this.



On Thursday, 6 May 2021, 22:16:59 GMT+8, Steven Chmura <chmura.steve@...> wrote:


I¡¯m looking at doing the same conversion. I have the 120s with a couple tired VP D2-40s. My concern was the increased immediate load vs the ramped up torque via the ICE. Would love to get it installed by end of year!

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 9:32 AM Carsten via <Carstensemail=[email protected]> wrote:
Seems that saildrive conversions is a recurrent issue here.
Have any of you ever made a conversion to electric on a saildrive ?

I would like a direct driven solution too.
But I need an electro motor optimized for 1600-2200 RPM. Not 5000.
Do any of you know a supplier who can deliver such low rev (optimized) motors ?
Do we have to go to China for this, or are there still qualified suppliers in the West ?

For power rating, my Volvo Penta 100S saildrive is supposed to be supporting a 24 HP diesel.
But the torque, and the torque forces when changing direction (eg. from full forward to full backward) might not be a good cup of tea for the small gear wheels of the lower part, as electric powered motors has so much more torque power.

Please comment :-)



On Tuesday, 4 May 2021, 21:20:25 GMT+8, Timdownes61@... <timdownes61@...> wrote:


Hi Flip

I have a similar issue one of my 2002 engines is 35 years old and not got a bright future, rather than a rebuild, an electric motor fitted to the S120C saildrive is my preferred option.? Have you considered using the rear gearbox mount only or building a frame to utilize the 2 diesel mounts as well to handle the lateral force from the rotating prop?

I will be watching your progress with interest. Motor direct coupled to vertical shaft is intriguing

Tim
33ft Imp Catamaran

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