|
Silly question...? ?Though I hope to get several answers!
Why 16 cells?
These are 3.2V nominal cells, right? They charge up to 3.65V, and can discharge down to 2.2V?? ? So, to give plenty of margin, maybe run between 2.75V for a low, and max of 3.5V?
For 15 cells, that gives:? 41.25 to 52.5. For 16 cells, that would be:? 44 to 56V
It would seem like the 15 cells hits the 48V range easily enough. Are people rounding up to 16 cells just so that they have an even number to work with?? As one example, the Torqeedo 4R has a lower limit cutoff (assuming Li and not lead) of 42V (lead setup is 36V) - so a 15 cell configuration would work reasonably.
Just curious what the thoughts were here.
Thanks, John
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 12:13:25 PM CDT, L Schmitz via groups.io <terminalift@...> wrote:
Hello Fred,? The 48 v? 90 ah pack is pretty easy to assemble. That will be 16 cylinders.? You can fit them in 1 West Marine heavy duty battery box.? Weight will be about 85 lbs.? ?Just assemble bus bars to place in series. Then add a bms? and charger. I will check costs on these and forward to you. thank you? kind regards Larry Schmitz
?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 05:27:23 PM PDT, fred jelich <freddyj408@...> wrote:
I'd be interested in 48v? 90ah for my boat!
Hello Steve,? sorry for the delay.? ?I can sell you some of my extra cells.? 3.2 v 90 ah? I am happy with my 10 kw? 48v thunderstruck project? We are experimenting with cylinders and prisms for my work projects.? I can assemble and charge (cost only for a bms and bus bars.)? We are adding a phase change material to our boxes to minimize possible heat and waterproof my battery packs. It is a simple blend of paraffin wax and synthetic bees wax. All my projects are experimental at this point. Observed performance is our goal. We do not sell anything commercially.? cost only if you are interested.? 24v? 36v or 48v? ?available we can parallel? 90? ? ?180? ?270 or 360 ah? ? ? I use new West Marine heavy guage plastic battery boxes.??
I will send some pictures tomorrow.? I hope this helps.? ?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Sunday, May 31, 2020, 07:53:28 AM PDT, Steve Gjertson < sgjertson@...> wrote:
Hi Larry,?
I have been following this thread and would be interested a 48 v battery system. My email is sgjertson@...?
I have an extra 500 ? ?3.2 v 90 ah?cylinders with??bms devices and chargers. We are using big prismatic cells ?for our next??high voltage battery project ? I could duplicate my 48 v lifepo4?set up and charge only material cost if you are interested ?I will get you some pictures. We are in San Diego? Best regards, Larry Schmitz
On Friday, May 22, 2020, 5:21 AM, Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@...> wrote: Mine is Thunderstruck too.? For your size boat you can go with air cooled but need to make sure to get and engine compartment fan to circulate air.? No more water intake to get clogged with sea grass or some idiot¡¯s shopping bag floating by as you motor.? One of the beauties of the system.? It should push you just fine.? I use a couple eu2000 generators as backup for long distance trips but for day trips where you need a couple hours at most you can get by on batteries.
Anyway, good luck. ?
Larry On May 21, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Ryan Sweet <ryan@...> wrote:
?
Do you have a link for the batteries you had success with? There are so many on offer and it seems quite hard to find much info about each company except for the us based ones and those are all twice as expensive (I recognize that this is possibly for good reasons).? ?
I have had good luck with my 10kw?thunderstruck kit too. First installed 4??agm?batteries ? 12v 220 ah.?Then after 2 years replaced with lifepo4. An excellent upgrade?I assembled 4 battery boxes with 3.2v 90ah cylinders. Each box 4P4S?Then installed an?ant bms for balancing. The monitor is very good??for checking your system. If you decide to assemble your own battery system invest in a Flir Heat sensor. The Flir connects to your I?phone. You aim it at your wiring assembly under load. It detects hot spot?areas of concern in your connections. Battery, contactor ,controller and motor connections. 48 v 360 ah gives plenty of run time at 40 to 90 amp load.? Best regards, Larry Schmitz
On Thursday, May 21, 2020, 4:16 PM, Reuben Trane via <rjtrane=[email protected]> wrote: Go to and look at their kits. I purchased 2 ea for my 12m Power cat. For your needs a 5kW to 10kW motor should do the job. Hard part is figuring out the reduction. I chose 3:1 to get a max prop RPM of 800.
48Vdc woks best. If it¡¯s in your budget assemble a battery from LiFePo4 cells
Feel free to ask me about my installation.
Reuben
|
Hello John,?? Good questions.?
Most 48v hardware has 60v capacitors inside so you can max out the voltage close to 60. With 16s it can reach 58.4v. 15s can be used as well. Will have a lower voltage cutoff but the device wont provide a redundant low voltage protection as it thinks it's got a 48v battery. So in short... it can be used just needs excellent monitoring and it only has 1 protection from over discharge
I hope this helps? ? thank you? kind regards Larry Schmitz
?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 10:41:41 AM PDT, john via groups.io <oak_box@...> wrote:
Silly question...? ?Though I hope to get several answers!
Why 16 cells?
These are 3.2V nominal cells, right? They charge up to 3.65V, and can discharge down to 2.2V?? ? So, to give plenty of margin, maybe run between 2.75V for a low, and max of 3.5V?
For 15 cells, that gives:? 41.25 to 52.5. For 16 cells, that would be:? 44 to 56V
It would seem like the 15 cells hits the 48V range easily enough. Are people rounding up to 16 cells just so that they have an even number to work with?? As one example, the Torqeedo 4R has a lower limit cutoff (assuming Li and not lead) of 42V (lead setup is 36V) - so a 15 cell configuration would work reasonably.
Just curious what the thoughts were here.
Thanks, John
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 12:13:25 PM CDT, L Schmitz via groups.io <terminalift@...> wrote:
Hello Fred,? The 48 v? 90 ah pack is pretty easy to assemble. That will be 16 cylinders.? You can fit them in 1 West Marine heavy duty battery box.? Weight will be about 85 lbs.? ?Just assemble bus bars to place in series. Then add a bms? and charger. I will check costs on these and forward to you. thank you? kind regards Larry Schmitz
?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 05:27:23 PM PDT, fred jelich <freddyj408@...> wrote:
I'd be interested in 48v? 90ah for my boat!
Hello Steve,? sorry for the delay.? ?I can sell you some of my extra cells.? 3.2 v 90 ah? I am happy with my 10 kw? 48v thunderstruck project? We are experimenting with cylinders and prisms for my work projects.? I can assemble and charge (cost only for a bms and bus bars.)? We are adding a phase change material to our boxes to minimize possible heat and waterproof my battery packs. It is a simple blend of paraffin wax and synthetic bees wax. All my projects are experimental at this point. Observed performance is our goal. We do not sell anything commercially.? cost only if you are interested.? 24v? 36v or 48v? ?available we can parallel? 90? ? ?180? ?270 or 360 ah? ? ? I use new West Marine heavy guage plastic battery boxes.??
I will send some pictures tomorrow.? I hope this helps.? ?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Sunday, May 31, 2020, 07:53:28 AM PDT, Steve Gjertson < sgjertson@...> wrote:
Hi Larry,?
I have been following this thread and would be interested a 48 v battery system. My email is sgjertson@...?
I have an extra 500 ? ?3.2 v 90 ah?cylinders with??bms devices and chargers. We are using big prismatic cells ?for our next??high voltage battery project ? I could duplicate my 48 v lifepo4?set up and charge only material cost if you are interested ?I will get you some pictures. We are in San Diego? Best regards, Larry Schmitz
On Friday, May 22, 2020, 5:21 AM, Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@...> wrote: Mine is Thunderstruck too.? For your size boat you can go with air cooled but need to make sure to get and engine compartment fan to circulate air.? No more water intake to get clogged with sea grass or some idiot¡¯s shopping bag floating by as you motor.? One of the beauties of the system.? It should push you just fine.? I use a couple eu2000 generators as backup for long distance trips but for day trips where you need a couple hours at most you can get by on batteries.
Anyway, good luck. ?
Larry On May 21, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Ryan Sweet <ryan@...> wrote:
?
Do you have a link for the batteries you had success with? There are so many on offer and it seems quite hard to find much info about each company except for the us based ones and those are all twice as expensive (I recognize that this is possibly for good reasons).? ?
I have had good luck with my 10kw?thunderstruck kit too. First installed 4??agm?batteries ? 12v 220 ah.?Then after 2 years replaced with lifepo4. An excellent upgrade?I assembled 4 battery boxes with 3.2v 90ah cylinders. Each box 4P4S?Then installed an?ant bms for balancing. The monitor is very good??for checking your system. If you decide to assemble your own battery system invest in a Flir Heat sensor. The Flir connects to your I?phone. You aim it at your wiring assembly under load. It detects hot spot?areas of concern in your connections. Battery, contactor ,controller and motor connections. 48 v 360 ah gives plenty of run time at 40 to 90 amp load.? Best regards, Larry Schmitz
On Thursday, May 21, 2020, 4:16 PM, Reuben Trane via <rjtrane=[email protected]> wrote: Go to and look at their kits. I purchased 2 ea for my 12m Power cat. For your needs a 5kW to 10kW motor should do the job. Hard part is figuring out the reduction. I chose 3:1 to get a max prop RPM of 800.
48Vdc woks best. If it¡¯s in your budget assemble a battery from LiFePo4 cells
Feel free to ask me about my installation.
Reuben
|
So are you saying some people use 15, and some use 16?
Obviously, 16 would give you a little more power, with more expense.?? Is there a common trend one way or the other?
I've been playing with an EBike battery pack from BTR.? ?"48V, 20Ah".? ?But no solid documentation on how many cells.? It's supposed to be LiFeP04.? The charger seems to be topping out around 57V.? Resting voltage after unplugging the charger is about 56V, and then it quickly drops down to 51/52V when a small load is applied.? ? I'm guessing this is a 16 cell battery.? ?But won't know absolutely unless I take one apart (which won't happen until I kill one.? <grin>).
John
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 02:32:21 PM CDT, L Schmitz via groups.io <terminalift@...> wrote:
Hello John,?? Good questions.?
Most 48v hardware has 60v capacitors inside so you can max out the voltage close to 60. With 16s it can reach 58.4v. 15s can be used as well. Will have a lower voltage cutoff but the device wont provide a redundant low voltage protection as it thinks it's got a 48v battery. So in short... it can be used just needs excellent monitoring and it only has 1 protection from over discharge
I hope this helps? ? thank you? kind regards Larry Schmitz
?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 10:41:41 AM PDT, john via groups.io <oak_box@...> wrote:
Silly question...? ?Though I hope to get several answers!
Why 16 cells?
These are 3.2V nominal cells, right? They charge up to 3.65V, and can discharge down to 2.2V?? ? So, to give plenty of margin, maybe run between 2.75V for a low, and max of 3.5V?
For 15 cells, that gives:? 41.25 to 52.5. For 16 cells, that would be:? 44 to 56V
It would seem like the 15 cells hits the 48V range easily enough. Are people rounding up to 16 cells just so that they have an even number to work with?? As one example, the Torqeedo 4R has a lower limit cutoff (assuming Li and not lead) of 42V (lead setup is 36V) - so a 15 cell configuration would work reasonably.
Just curious what the thoughts were here.
Thanks, John
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 12:13:25 PM CDT, L Schmitz via groups.io <terminalift@...> wrote:
Hello Fred,? The 48 v? 90 ah pack is pretty easy to assemble. That will be 16 cylinders.? You can fit them in 1 West Marine heavy duty battery box.? Weight will be about 85 lbs.? ?Just assemble bus bars to place in series. Then add a bms? and charger. I will check costs on these and forward to you. thank you? kind regards Larry Schmitz
?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 05:27:23 PM PDT, fred jelich <freddyj408@...> wrote:
I'd be interested in 48v? 90ah for my boat!
Hello Steve,? sorry for the delay.? ?I can sell you some of my extra cells.? 3.2 v 90 ah? I am happy with my 10 kw? 48v thunderstruck project? We are experimenting with cylinders and prisms for my work projects.? I can assemble and charge (cost only for a bms and bus bars.)? We are adding a phase change material to our boxes to minimize possible heat and waterproof my battery packs. It is a simple blend of paraffin wax and synthetic bees wax. All my projects are experimental at this point. Observed performance is our goal. We do not sell anything commercially.? cost only if you are interested.? 24v? 36v or 48v? ?available we can parallel? 90? ? ?180? ?270 or 360 ah? ? ? I use new West Marine heavy guage plastic battery boxes.??
I will send some pictures tomorrow.? I hope this helps.? ?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Sunday, May 31, 2020, 07:53:28 AM PDT, Steve Gjertson < sgjertson@...> wrote:
Hi Larry,?
I have been following this thread and would be interested a 48 v battery system. My email is sgjertson@...?
I have an extra 500 ? ?3.2 v 90 ah?cylinders with??bms devices and chargers. We are using big prismatic cells ?for our next??high voltage battery project ? I could duplicate my 48 v lifepo4?set up and charge only material cost if you are interested ?I will get you some pictures. We are in San Diego? Best regards, Larry Schmitz
On Friday, May 22, 2020, 5:21 AM, Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@...> wrote: Mine is Thunderstruck too.? For your size boat you can go with air cooled but need to make sure to get and engine compartment fan to circulate air.? No more water intake to get clogged with sea grass or some idiot¡¯s shopping bag floating by as you motor.? One of the beauties of the system.? It should push you just fine.? I use a couple eu2000 generators as backup for long distance trips but for day trips where you need a couple hours at most you can get by on batteries.
Anyway, good luck. ?
Larry On May 21, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Ryan Sweet <ryan@...> wrote:
?
Do you have a link for the batteries you had success with? There are so many on offer and it seems quite hard to find much info about each company except for the us based ones and those are all twice as expensive (I recognize that this is possibly for good reasons).? ?
I have had good luck with my 10kw?thunderstruck kit too. First installed 4??agm?batteries ? 12v 220 ah.?Then after 2 years replaced with lifepo4. An excellent upgrade?I assembled 4 battery boxes with 3.2v 90ah cylinders. Each box 4P4S?Then installed an?ant bms for balancing. The monitor is very good??for checking your system. If you decide to assemble your own battery system invest in a Flir Heat sensor. The Flir connects to your I?phone. You aim it at your wiring assembly under load. It detects hot spot?areas of concern in your connections. Battery, contactor ,controller and motor connections. 48 v 360 ah gives plenty of run time at 40 to 90 amp load.? Best regards, Larry Schmitz
On Thursday, May 21, 2020, 4:16 PM, Reuben Trane via <rjtrane=[email protected]> wrote: Go to and look at their kits. I purchased 2 ea for my 12m Power cat. For your needs a 5kW to 10kW motor should do the job. Hard part is figuring out the reduction. I chose 3:1 to get a max prop RPM of 800.
48Vdc woks best. If it¡¯s in your budget assemble a battery from LiFePo4 cells
Feel free to ask me about my installation.
Reuben
|
another of my team says? 16 in series pack are easier to use because both positive and negative terminals are on one side because 16 is an even number. If it were 15 in series one of the lead terminals would be on the other side of the pack.? 41.25 volts seems kinda low to run a 48 volt system.?
I hope this helps? ?thank you? kind regards? ?Larry Schmitz
?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 12:47:06 PM PDT, john via groups.io <oak_box@...> wrote:
So are you saying some people use 15, and some use 16?
Obviously, 16 would give you a little more power, with more expense.?? Is there a common trend one way or the other?
I've been playing with an EBike battery pack from BTR.? ?"48V, 20Ah".? ?But no solid documentation on how many cells.? It's supposed to be LiFeP04.? The charger seems to be topping out around 57V.? Resting voltage after unplugging the charger is about 56V, and then it quickly drops down to 51/52V when a small load is applied.? ? I'm guessing this is a 16 cell battery.? ?But won't know absolutely unless I take one apart (which won't happen until I kill one.? <grin>).
John
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 02:32:21 PM CDT, L Schmitz via groups.io <terminalift@...> wrote:
Hello John,?? Good questions.?
Most 48v hardware has 60v capacitors inside so you can max out the voltage close to 60. With 16s it can reach 58.4v. 15s can be used as well. Will have a lower voltage cutoff but the device wont provide a redundant low voltage protection as it thinks it's got a 48v battery. So in short... it can be used just needs excellent monitoring and it only has 1 protection from over discharge
I hope this helps? ? thank you? kind regards Larry Schmitz
?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 10:41:41 AM PDT, john via groups.io <oak_box@...> wrote:
Silly question...? ?Though I hope to get several answers!
Why 16 cells?
These are 3.2V nominal cells, right? They charge up to 3.65V, and can discharge down to 2.2V?? ? So, to give plenty of margin, maybe run between 2.75V for a low, and max of 3.5V?
For 15 cells, that gives:? 41.25 to 52.5. For 16 cells, that would be:? 44 to 56V
It would seem like the 15 cells hits the 48V range easily enough. Are people rounding up to 16 cells just so that they have an even number to work with?? As one example, the Torqeedo 4R has a lower limit cutoff (assuming Li and not lead) of 42V (lead setup is 36V) - so a 15 cell configuration would work reasonably.
Just curious what the thoughts were here.
Thanks, John
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 12:13:25 PM CDT, L Schmitz via groups.io <terminalift@...> wrote:
Hello Fred,? The 48 v? 90 ah pack is pretty easy to assemble. That will be 16 cylinders.? You can fit them in 1 West Marine heavy duty battery box.? Weight will be about 85 lbs.? ?Just assemble bus bars to place in series. Then add a bms? and charger. I will check costs on these and forward to you. thank you? kind regards Larry Schmitz
?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 05:27:23 PM PDT, fred jelich <freddyj408@...> wrote:
I'd be interested in 48v? 90ah for my boat!
Hello Steve,? sorry for the delay.? ?I can sell you some of my extra cells.? 3.2 v 90 ah? I am happy with my 10 kw? 48v thunderstruck project? We are experimenting with cylinders and prisms for my work projects.? I can assemble and charge (cost only for a bms and bus bars.)? We are adding a phase change material to our boxes to minimize possible heat and waterproof my battery packs. It is a simple blend of paraffin wax and synthetic bees wax. All my projects are experimental at this point. Observed performance is our goal. We do not sell anything commercially.? cost only if you are interested.? 24v? 36v or 48v? ?available we can parallel? 90? ? ?180? ?270 or 360 ah? ? ? I use new West Marine heavy guage plastic battery boxes.??
I will send some pictures tomorrow.? I hope this helps.? ?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Sunday, May 31, 2020, 07:53:28 AM PDT, Steve Gjertson < sgjertson@...> wrote:
Hi Larry,?
I have been following this thread and would be interested a 48 v battery system. My email is sgjertson@...?
I have an extra 500 ? ?3.2 v 90 ah?cylinders with??bms devices and chargers. We are using big prismatic cells ?for our next??high voltage battery project ? I could duplicate my 48 v lifepo4?set up and charge only material cost if you are interested ?I will get you some pictures. We are in San Diego? Best regards, Larry Schmitz
On Friday, May 22, 2020, 5:21 AM, Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@...> wrote: Mine is Thunderstruck too.? For your size boat you can go with air cooled but need to make sure to get and engine compartment fan to circulate air.? No more water intake to get clogged with sea grass or some idiot¡¯s shopping bag floating by as you motor.? One of the beauties of the system.? It should push you just fine.? I use a couple eu2000 generators as backup for long distance trips but for day trips where you need a couple hours at most you can get by on batteries.
Anyway, good luck. ?
Larry On May 21, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Ryan Sweet <ryan@...> wrote:
?
Do you have a link for the batteries you had success with? There are so many on offer and it seems quite hard to find much info about each company except for the us based ones and those are all twice as expensive (I recognize that this is possibly for good reasons).? ?
I have had good luck with my 10kw?thunderstruck kit too. First installed 4??agm?batteries ? 12v 220 ah.?Then after 2 years replaced with lifepo4. An excellent upgrade?I assembled 4 battery boxes with 3.2v 90ah cylinders. Each box 4P4S?Then installed an?ant bms for balancing. The monitor is very good??for checking your system. If you decide to assemble your own battery system invest in a Flir Heat sensor. The Flir connects to your I?phone. You aim it at your wiring assembly under load. It detects hot spot?areas of concern in your connections. Battery, contactor ,controller and motor connections. 48 v 360 ah gives plenty of run time at 40 to 90 amp load.? Best regards, Larry Schmitz
On Thursday, May 21, 2020, 4:16 PM, Reuben Trane via <rjtrane=[email protected]> wrote: Go to and look at their kits. I purchased 2 ea for my 12m Power cat. For your needs a 5kW to 10kW motor should do the job. Hard part is figuring out the reduction. I chose 3:1 to get a max prop RPM of 800.
48Vdc woks best. If it¡¯s in your budget assemble a battery from LiFePo4 cells
Feel free to ask me about my installation.
Reuben
|
And some of us use 12¡though a different chemistry. My Enerdel pack batteries are not LiFPo. Voltage range: 2.5 - 4.1vpc (pack: 30 - 49.2v) Nominal Pack Voltage: 42v ? That worked out well for me as I upgraded from 36v flooded PbA and didn¡¯t have to change my controller or 36-12v DCDC. Charger¡¯s a different story¡ ? -MT
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of john via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 12:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Time to re-power >> How many cells??? So are you saying some people use 15, and some use 16? Obviously, 16 would give you a little more power, with more expense.?? Is there a common trend one way or the other? I've been playing with an EBike battery pack from BTR.? ?"48V, 20Ah".? ?But no solid documentation on how many cells.? It's supposed to be LiFeP04.? The charger seems to be topping out around 57V.? Resting voltage after unplugging the charger is about 56V, and then it quickly drops down to 51/52V when a small load is applied.? ? I'm guessing this is a 16 cell battery.? ?But won't know absolutely unless I take one apart (which won't happen until I kill one.? <grin>). On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 02:32:21 PM CDT, L Schmitz via groups.io <terminalift@...> wrote: Hello John,?? Good questions.? Most 48v hardware has 60v capacitors inside so you can max out the voltage close to 60. With 16s it can reach 58.4v. 15s can be used as well. Will have a lower voltage cutoff but the device wont provide a redundant low voltage protection as it thinks it's got a 48v battery. So in short... it can be used just needs excellent monitoring and it only has 1 protection from over discharge I hope this helps? ? thank you? kind regards Larry Schmitz On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 10:41:41 AM PDT, john via groups.io <oak_box@...> wrote: Silly question...? ?Though I hope to get several answers! These are 3.2V nominal cells, right? They charge up to 3.65V, and can discharge down to 2.2V?? ? So, to give plenty of margin, maybe run between 2.75V for a low, and max of 3.5V? For 15 cells, that gives:? 41.25 to 52.5. For 16 cells, that would be:? 44 to 56V It would seem like the 15 cells hits the 48V range easily enough. Are people rounding up to 16 cells just so that they have an even number to work with?? As one example, the Torqeedo 4R has a lower limit cutoff (assuming Li and not lead) of 42V (lead setup is 36V) - so a 15 cell configuration would work reasonably. Just curious what the thoughts were here. On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 12:13:25 PM CDT, L Schmitz via groups.io <terminalift@...> wrote: Hello Fred,? The 48 v? 90 ah pack is pretty easy to assemble. That will be 16 cylinders.? You can fit them in 1 West Marine heavy duty battery box.? Weight will be about 85 lbs.? ?Just assemble bus bars to place in series. Then add a bms? and charger. I will check costs on these and forward to you. thank you? kind regards Larry Schmitz On Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 05:27:23 PM PDT, fred jelich <freddyj408@...> wrote: I'd be interested in 48v? 90ah for my boat! ? Hello Steve,? sorry for the delay.? ?I can sell you some of my extra cells.? 3.2 v 90 ah? I am happy with my 10 kw? 48v thunderstruck project? We are experimenting with cylinders and prisms for my work projects.? I can assemble and charge (cost only for a bms and bus bars.)? We are adding a phase change material to our boxes to minimize possible heat and waterproof my battery packs. It is a simple blend of paraffin wax and synthetic bees wax. All my projects are experimental at this point. Observed performance is our goal. We do not sell anything commercially.? cost only if you are interested.? 24v? 36v or 48v? ?available we can parallel? 90? ? ?180? ?270 or 360 ah? ? ? I use new West Marine heavy guage plastic battery boxes.?? I will send some pictures tomorrow.? I hope this helps.? On Sunday, May 31, 2020, 07:53:28 AM PDT, Steve Gjertson <sgjertson@...> wrote: Hi Larry,? I have been following this thread and would be interested a 48 v battery system. My email is sgjertson@...? ? I have an extra 500 ? ?3.2 v 90 ah?cylinders with??bms devices and chargers. We are using big prismatic cells ?for our next??high voltage battery project ? I could duplicate my 48 v lifepo4?set up and charge only material cost if you are interested ?I will get you some pictures. We are in San Diego?
? On Friday, May 22, 2020, 5:21 AM, Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@...> wrote: Mine is Thunderstruck too.? For your size boat you can go with air cooled but need to make sure to get and engine compartment fan to circulate air.? No more water intake to get clogged with sea grass or some idiot¡¯s shopping bag floating by as you motor.? One of the beauties of the system.? It should push you just fine.? I use a couple eu2000 generators as backup for long distance trips but for day trips where you need a couple hours at most you can get by on batteries. Larry
On May 21, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Ryan Sweet <ryan@...> wrote:
Do you have a link for the batteries you had success with? There are so many on offer and it seems quite hard to find much info about each company except for the us based ones and those are all twice as expensive (I recognize that this is possibly for good reasons).? ?
I have had good luck with my 10kw?thunderstruck kit too. First installed 4??agm?batteries ? 12v 220 ah.?Then after 2 years replaced with lifepo4. An excellent upgrade?I assembled 4 battery boxes with 3.2v 90ah cylinders. Each box 4P4S?Then installed an?ant bms for balancing. The monitor is very good??for checking your system. If you decide to assemble your own battery system invest in a Flir Heat sensor. The Flir connects to your I?phone. You aim it at your wiring assembly under load. It detects hot spot?areas of concern in your connections. Battery, contactor ,controller and motor connections. 48 v 360 ah gives plenty of run time at 40 to 90 amp load.? ? On Thursday, May 21, 2020, 4:16 PM, Reuben Trane via <rjtrane=[email protected]> wrote: Go to and look at their kits. I purchased 2 ea for my 12m Power cat. For your needs a 5kW to 10kW motor should do the job. Hard part is figuring out the reduction. I chose 3:1 to get a max prop RPM of 800. 48Vdc woks best. If it¡¯s in your budget assemble a battery from LiFePo4 cells Feel free to ask me about my installation.
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Hello John,? I just potted this battery pack with a phase change material.? a blend of paraffin waxes? ?The idea is that my connections are completely sealed and waterproof. There are no voids so no movement within the battery box.? Wax will only soften or liquify in immediate vicinity of the cells. And only if the draw creates heat. I am doing an observed performance project for power of interior lights running lights tillermaster etc.? The 48 v lifepo 4 runs my 10kw thunderstruck motor system.?
?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 12:47:06 PM PDT, john via groups.io <oak_box@...> wrote:
So are you saying some people use 15, and some use 16?
Obviously, 16 would give you a little more power, with more expense.?? Is there a common trend one way or the other?
I've been playing with an EBike battery pack from BTR.? ?"48V, 20Ah".? ?But no solid documentation on how many cells.? It's supposed to be LiFeP04.? The charger seems to be topping out around 57V.? Resting voltage after unplugging the charger is about 56V, and then it quickly drops down to 51/52V when a small load is applied.? ? I'm guessing this is a 16 cell battery.? ?But won't know absolutely unless I take one apart (which won't happen until I kill one.? <grin>).
John
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 02:32:21 PM CDT, L Schmitz via groups.io <terminalift@...> wrote:
Hello John,?? Good questions.?
Most 48v hardware has 60v capacitors inside so you can max out the voltage close to 60. With 16s it can reach 58.4v. 15s can be used as well. Will have a lower voltage cutoff but the device wont provide a redundant low voltage protection as it thinks it's got a 48v battery. So in short... it can be used just needs excellent monitoring and it only has 1 protection from over discharge
I hope this helps? ? thank you? kind regards Larry Schmitz
?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 10:41:41 AM PDT, john via groups.io <oak_box@...> wrote:
Silly question...? ?Though I hope to get several answers!
Why 16 cells?
These are 3.2V nominal cells, right? They charge up to 3.65V, and can discharge down to 2.2V?? ? So, to give plenty of margin, maybe run between 2.75V for a low, and max of 3.5V?
For 15 cells, that gives:? 41.25 to 52.5. For 16 cells, that would be:? 44 to 56V
It would seem like the 15 cells hits the 48V range easily enough. Are people rounding up to 16 cells just so that they have an even number to work with?? As one example, the Torqeedo 4R has a lower limit cutoff (assuming Li and not lead) of 42V (lead setup is 36V) - so a 15 cell configuration would work reasonably.
Just curious what the thoughts were here.
Thanks, John
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 12:13:25 PM CDT, L Schmitz via groups.io <terminalift@...> wrote:
Hello Fred,? The 48 v? 90 ah pack is pretty easy to assemble. That will be 16 cylinders.? You can fit them in 1 West Marine heavy duty battery box.? Weight will be about 85 lbs.? ?Just assemble bus bars to place in series. Then add a bms? and charger. I will check costs on these and forward to you. thank you? kind regards Larry Schmitz
?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 05:27:23 PM PDT, fred jelich <freddyj408@...> wrote:
I'd be interested in 48v? 90ah for my boat!
Hello Steve,? sorry for the delay.? ?I can sell you some of my extra cells.? 3.2 v 90 ah? I am happy with my 10 kw? 48v thunderstruck project? We are experimenting with cylinders and prisms for my work projects.? I can assemble and charge (cost only for a bms and bus bars.)? We are adding a phase change material to our boxes to minimize possible heat and waterproof my battery packs. It is a simple blend of paraffin wax and synthetic bees wax. All my projects are experimental at this point. Observed performance is our goal. We do not sell anything commercially.? cost only if you are interested.? 24v? 36v or 48v? ?available we can parallel? 90? ? ?180? ?270 or 360 ah? ? ? I use new West Marine heavy guage plastic battery boxes.??
I will send some pictures tomorrow.? I hope this helps.? ?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Sunday, May 31, 2020, 07:53:28 AM PDT, Steve Gjertson < sgjertson@...> wrote:
Hi Larry,?
I have been following this thread and would be interested a 48 v battery system. My email is sgjertson@...?
I have an extra 500 ? ?3.2 v 90 ah?cylinders with??bms devices and chargers. We are using big prismatic cells ?for our next??high voltage battery project ? I could duplicate my 48 v lifepo4?set up and charge only material cost if you are interested ?I will get you some pictures. We are in San Diego? Best regards, Larry Schmitz
On Friday, May 22, 2020, 5:21 AM, Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@...> wrote: Mine is Thunderstruck too.? For your size boat you can go with air cooled but need to make sure to get and engine compartment fan to circulate air.? No more water intake to get clogged with sea grass or some idiot¡¯s shopping bag floating by as you motor.? One of the beauties of the system.? It should push you just fine.? I use a couple eu2000 generators as backup for long distance trips but for day trips where you need a couple hours at most you can get by on batteries.
Anyway, good luck. ?
Larry On May 21, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Ryan Sweet <ryan@...> wrote:
?
Do you have a link for the batteries you had success with? There are so many on offer and it seems quite hard to find much info about each company except for the us based ones and those are all twice as expensive (I recognize that this is possibly for good reasons).? ?
I have had good luck with my 10kw?thunderstruck kit too. First installed 4??agm?batteries ? 12v 220 ah.?Then after 2 years replaced with lifepo4. An excellent upgrade?I assembled 4 battery boxes with 3.2v 90ah cylinders. Each box 4P4S?Then installed an?ant bms for balancing. The monitor is very good??for checking your system. If you decide to assemble your own battery system invest in a Flir Heat sensor. The Flir connects to your I?phone. You aim it at your wiring assembly under load. It detects hot spot?areas of concern in your connections. Battery, contactor ,controller and motor connections. 48 v 360 ah gives plenty of run time at 40 to 90 amp load.? Best regards, Larry Schmitz
On Thursday, May 21, 2020, 4:16 PM, Reuben Trane via <rjtrane=[email protected]> wrote: Go to and look at their kits. I purchased 2 ea for my 12m Power cat. For your needs a 5kW to 10kW motor should do the job. Hard part is figuring out the reduction. I chose 3:1 to get a max prop RPM of 800.
48Vdc woks best. If it¡¯s in your budget assemble a battery from LiFePo4 cells
Feel free to ask me about my installation.
Reuben
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On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 10:36 AM, john wrote:
Silly question...? ?Though I hope to get several answers!
?
Why 16 cells?
?
These are 3.2V nominal cells, right?
They charge up to 3.65V, and can discharge down to 2.2V?? ?
So, to give plenty of margin, maybe run between 2.75V for a low, and max of 3.5V?
?
For 15 cells, that gives:? 41.25 to 52.5.
For 16 cells, that would be:? 44 to 56V
?
It would seem like the 15 cells hits the 48V range easily enough.
Are people rounding up to 16 cells just so that they have an even number to work with??
As one example, the Torqeedo 4R has a lower limit cutoff (assuming Li and not lead) of 42V (lead setup is 36V) - so a 15 cell configuration would work reasonably.
?
Just curious what the thoughts were here.
?
Thanks,
John
Just keep in mind that a regular lead acid 12V battery has a resting voltage of 12.8V and a charging limit of about 15V, so a 48V nominal battery bank of golf cart batteries is has a resting voltage of 51.6V and a charge limit around 60V.? A lead acid battery bank with a resting voltage of only 48V needs to be looked at for replacement. ?My LiFePO4 16 cell bank has a resting voltage around 53V and drops below 52V as soon as normal load is applied, even when fully charged.? Heavy loads will drop my 16 cell bank below 48V, again, even when fully charged? While a 15 cell bank works, it puts you at the low end of the nominal voltage range for all of your components, increasing the amps pulled at any given load.? And you'll need a custom charging profile for you charger and custom thresholds for monitoring and protection.? The whole thing is a slippery slope.? If your only concern is trying to save 6% of your initial cost by buying 15 cells, rather than 16 cells, I personally don't see the justification...?? Fair winds, Eric
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Hi John
I run 15 cells without a problem Cheers
Mich
Silly question...? ?Though I hope to get several answers!
Why 16 cells?
These are 3.2V nominal cells, right? They charge up to 3.65V, and can discharge down to 2.2V?? ? So, to give plenty of margin, maybe run between 2.75V for a low, and max of 3.5V?
For 15 cells, that gives:? 41.25 to 52.5. For 16 cells, that would be:? 44 to 56V
It would seem like the 15 cells hits the 48V range easily enough. Are people rounding up to 16 cells just so that they have an even number to work with?? As one example, the Torqeedo 4R has a lower limit cutoff (assuming Li and not lead) of 42V (lead setup is 36V) - so a 15 cell configuration would work reasonably.
Just curious what the thoughts were here.
Thanks, John
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 12:13:25 PM CDT, L Schmitz via <terminalift= [email protected]> wrote:
Hello Fred,? The 48 v? 90 ah pack is pretty easy to assemble. That will be 16 cylinders.? You can fit them in 1 West Marine heavy duty battery box.? Weight will be about 85 lbs.? ?Just assemble bus bars to place in series. Then add a bms? and charger. I will check costs on these and forward to you. thank you? kind regards Larry Schmitz
?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Tuesday, June 2, 2020, 05:27:23 PM PDT, fred jelich < freddyj408@...> wrote:
I'd be interested in 48v? 90ah for my boat! Hello Steve,? sorry for the delay.? ?I can sell you some of my extra cells.? 3.2 v 90 ah? I am happy with my 10 kw? 48v thunderstruck project? We are experimenting with cylinders and prisms for my work projects.? I can assemble and charge (cost only for a bms and bus bars.)? We are adding a phase change material to our boxes to minimize possible heat and waterproof my battery packs. It is a simple blend of paraffin wax and synthetic bees wax. All my projects are experimental at this point. Observed performance is our goal. We do not sell anything commercially.? cost only if you are interested.? 24v? 36v or 48v? ?available we can parallel? 90? ? ?180? ?270 or 360 ah? ? ? I use new West Marine heavy guage plastic battery boxes.??
I will send some pictures tomorrow.? I hope this helps.? ?Terminalift LLC 9444 Mission Park Place Santee, CA 92071 Ph: (619) 562-0355 F: (619) 562-2060
On Sunday, May 31, 2020, 07:53:28 AM PDT, Steve Gjertson < sgjertson@...> wrote:
Hi Larry,?
I have been following this thread and would be interested a 48 v battery system. My email is sgjertson@...?
I have an extra 500 ? ?3.2 v 90 ah?cylinders with??bms devices and chargers. We are using big prismatic cells ?for our next??high voltage battery project ? I could duplicate my 48 v lifepo4?set up and charge only material cost if you are interested ?I will get you some pictures. We are in San Diego? Best regards, Larry Schmitz
On Friday, May 22, 2020, 5:21 AM, Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@...> wrote: Mine is Thunderstruck too.? For your size boat you can go with air cooled but need to make sure to get and engine compartment fan to circulate air.? No more water intake to get clogged with sea grass or some idiot¡¯s shopping bag floating by as you motor.? One of the beauties of the system.? It should push you just fine.? I use a couple eu2000 generators as backup for long distance trips but for day trips where you need a couple hours at most you can get by on batteries.
Anyway, good luck. ?
Larry On May 21, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Ryan Sweet <ryan@...> wrote:
?
Do you have a link for the batteries you had success with? There are so many on offer and it seems quite hard to find much info about each company except for the us based ones and those are all twice as expensive (I recognize that this is possibly for good reasons).? ?
I have had good luck with my 10kw?thunderstruck kit too. First installed 4??agm?batteries ? 12v 220 ah.?Then after 2 years replaced with lifepo4. An excellent upgrade?I assembled 4 battery boxes with 3.2v 90ah cylinders. Each box 4P4S?Then installed an?ant bms for balancing. The monitor is very good??for checking your system. If you decide to assemble your own battery system invest in a Flir Heat sensor. The Flir connects to your I?phone. You aim it at your wiring assembly under load. It detects hot spot?areas of concern in your connections. Battery, contactor ,controller and motor connections. 48 v 360 ah gives plenty of run time at 40 to 90 amp load.? Best regards, Larry Schmitz
On Thursday, May 21, 2020, 4:16 PM, Reuben Trane via <rjtrane=[email protected]> wrote: Go to and look at their kits. I purchased 2 ea for my 12m Power cat. For your needs a 5kW to 10kW motor should do the job. Hard part is figuring out the reduction. I chose 3:1 to get a max prop RPM of 800.
48Vdc woks best. If it¡¯s in your budget assemble a battery from LiFePo4 cells
Feel free to ask me about my installation.
Reuben
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