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Simplification


PPreuss
 

Somewhere in my future I hope to either build or
convert a 20 - 25 foot electrically driven craft.<br>From
the technical discussions in this club - I have come
to the conclusion that I am in the minority. I see
the technology as a means to an end rather than the
central point of electric boating. Yes I know we are a
very small market - but I think a major limiting
factor is that there are a lot of people like me who do
not want to get deeply involved in all sorts of
formulazations and yet are not willing to pay the rather steep
prices established by many commercial entities marketing
"packages". It would seem to me that for a 24' displacement
hull there could be rather easily developed two three
or four "systems" of propeller, motor, batteries,
charger, controls, and related materials. The same for
various sized sailboats. Until this becomes a lot simpler
- I think many folks will just go down to the old
store and purchase the latest gas or diesel replacement
engine. Am I missing something? Paul


donaldbaer
 

Pual,<br> You are correct it would be possible
for someone to develop a "Kit" for converting to
electric drive. This type of a thing does exist for
autombile conversion. I think the problem is in the
propeller. If the wrong prop is used then the results will
be less than optimum. If the correct propeller is
selected it can made a big defference in range. I know
that all of the other components are off the shelf
available. Maybe what needed is a conversion kit designed
for a range of props. I personaly would like to find
out the prop data (Pitch and diameter) that exist for
a number of already retro fitted hull. Once this is
in place it should be easy to engineer retrofit
packages for them. I would think that 3, 5 and 8 HP motors
would cover most application below 30 ft. and maybe it
would even be good up to about 40 ft. The problem is in
selecting the pulleys to achieve the proper ration between
the motor shaft and the propeller shaft.<br><br>Just
putting in my $02 worth


kirsti_drewsen
 

Paul: I'm with you! It's confusing enough as it
is! As I might have mentioned (or some of you might
have realized!) I consider myself "technically
impaired"! Doesn't mean that I'm stupid, but just that brain
is not willing to wrestle with formulas etc. I'm
also hard-headed and determined to have electric
propulsion or - nothing! I will NOT put another diesel
inside my home! If the option is forking out $10.000,-
to $12.000,- for an electric system...then I'll
stick with sails and the occasional push from my
dinghy. It's really a shame that something so obviosly
right as an electric motor for a boat has to be so
difficult to get/decide on, and it escapes me why there is
not any financial support available for developers of
non-polluting systems.<br>Sitting in "my" marina, I daily watch
the bilge-pumps squirting oily bilge water out in the
harbour. Pretty disgusting, and I wonder what the people
who managed to ban the more effective bottom-paints
are looking now? But maybe the oily slick inhibts the
spread of mosquitoes - what do I know!<br>Looking at
systems (sorry, but now I'm finally back on the subject
again...) the different options seems to range from between
$2.000,- to $12.000,- without batteries nor installation.
How is one to know? Would love some
sucess-stories!<br>This club is wonderfull, giving room for all kind of
opinions and ideas. And I enjoy the positive spirit of all
members. <br>Thanks to all of you!<br>Kirsti.


PPreuss
 

Don - it seems that much of what I am looking for
is contained in your posting. So we are looking at
3, 5, and 8 HP motors for most anything below 30
foot. That is a start. Perhaps we need to clarify that
further - as I have been reading the postings and find
that there are a variety of types of motors. Or - is
the type of motor more of a personal choice - like
Mac and PC? Now it also seems to be that the pulley
ratios are something that could likewise be established
given the length of the boat, size of the motor and
size of the prop. It just seems to me that for
something as simple as a 24' displacement hull launch there
should be one or two combinations of motor, pulleys and
prop that would be universally acceptable. If we could
establish that and post it to our club - I think it would
be most helpful. Perhaps if we followed your
suggestion and cataloged what is already in use we would be
far down the road. Thanks for helping out. Paul


PPreuss
 

Don - I don't know if this is all the information
required but it is a start. This is the data on my
14'Elco<br><br>LOA - 14 feet<br>WL - 13 feet 6 inches<br>Beam - 4
feet<br>Weight - 390 lbs<br>Motor - 24VDC, perm. magnet, .5 HP
(.073kw)<br>Prop - 6" three blade, 2.5 inch from front to
back<br>Motor Pulley - 2 inch inside diameter<br>Prop Shaft
Pulley - 3.75 inch inside diameter<br>Batteries - two
Group 31 12VDC 105 AH capacity<br>Top Speed - 4.5 knots
/ 5.3 mph<br>Cruising Range - 50 miles<br><br>Is
this the type of information and format that will
help? Paul


cedarcroft
 

Pauls message is important. There are two very
distinct groups of people involved in this club: 1) the
technical people, who are interested in advancing the
capacities of electric boating and eradicating the
inefficiencies; and 2) the non-technical people who would like to
know enough to keep their systems operating (or
install them) but otherwise are mostly interested in
enjoying their boats. I am in the latter category. I dont
know how my TV works, how my stereo works or how my
computer worksand to be honest about it, I dont want
someone to try and explain them to me. I would just like
them to work, provide their benefits, and allow me to
call someone in (on a very rare basis) to make them
work again when they stop.<br><br>Electric boating is
sufficiently non-mainstream at this point that my desire for
"hands-free operation" is a bit too ambitious. I need to know
something about how all this works. But electric boat
propulsion has been around for a long time and there are
lots of DC electric propulsions systems in place right
now (golf carts are one example) that I dont need to
re-invent the wheel unless I insist on it. The more
"far-out" and esoteric the system I install, the less
likely Ill find someone who can troubleshoot and fix it
for me.<br><br>When I first decided that Amber should
be electric I had a hard time keeping amps and volts
straight in my mind. I calculated and recalculated what I
thought her power needs would be (she was designed for a
diesel) and what her range would be for various battery
bank configurations. But in the end, as I talked to
people, I realized that the variances in the discussions
were shrinking and I was definitely in the ballpark.
Finally I just decided to go for it and, happily, found
that my calculations had all been on the low side.
<br><br>So my advice (until companies are manufacturing
"packages" as Paul suggests) is to start with the hp
requirements of the existing designeither based on the engine
to be replaced or on the design. Divide that by 4 or
so to get the roughly equivalent electric hp rating
and then price out the system from a component
supplier. <br><br>Don is certainly right that the right
prop and reduction is the next step. The general idea
there is that bigger prop diameter, steeper pitch, and
slower shaft speed are all desirable in comparison to
the internal combustion engine you are replacing. But
the exact combo is subject, to some extent, to trial
and error and the swapping out of those components is
not an expensive proposition anyway.<br><br>Larry


donaldbaer
 

This is exactly the kind of information that we
need to share. I agree with Larry about there being 2
groups of people out here the ones who arn't technical
and the ones who are. Unfortunatly for me I tend to
fall in the latter catagory (it's the engineer in me).
This can cause me to engineer everything to death
before I proceed with an actual working system. Larry is
more practical. His approach was very economical and
now he is reaping the rewards. He's out sailing and
I'm still at the dock analysing.<br>I'll take the
data from both your Elco and from larry's "Amber" and
tabulate it. Maybe I can put it into a form and post it
here on this forum. Is anyone else willing to share
their boat information ??<br>Regarding differences in
motors. There are many approaches to the same problem.
One has to weigh the advantages of them all against
the cost. One can even say the same thing about
batteries. I have certain ideas as to what I consider to be
important in the designs. Other have there own ideas as
well. That's only human nature. I will take some time
in the near future and try to put together a paper
on this very subject and be glad to share it also.
In the mean time I would like to hear more success
stories and the detail of same.<br><br>Happy, quite
motoring.<br><br>Don