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Re: Newbie - 20+ foot boat for wide/long river in Guyana, South America
From what you describe, electric is economically viable, but marginal depending on what you value. My reasoning is that your fuel bill is ~$1000/mo and that would support roughly $70k of investment @12%.
How much do you have to carry, and do you have to go over 32 mph for an hour?? 75 hp for an hour would take about a 60kwh battery.??
That is heavy and costly enough to be questionable.
If you consider
-a lower speed
-a lighter more efficient boat -long stabilized mono (tri) operating at a lower multiple of hull speed or a foil assisted cat (lighter, higher speed)
you could dramatically reduce your power needs and cost.?
The kicker is that those big batteries could be very useful to your off-grid villa when not powering the boat.
If this boat must be big, heavy, fast, and conventional deep V, electric may be cost prohibitive.
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Re: Newbie - 20+ foot boat for wide/long river in Guyana, South America
William Atkin designed a couple of paddlewheel riverboats. Lady of the Lake is one that comes to mind. Designed for a 10 hp diesel IIRC. I think it’s perfectly suitable for an electric motor.?
He has passed away, but Mystic Seaport can supply plans:
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Greg DeCowsky ??
Sent from my AyePhone??
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On May 15, 2023, at 09:54, rragbeer@... wrote:
?Hello?
I have recently joined the forum and have been following the topics with great interest.? Within the next few months, I would like to purchase a boat (new or used) for use in a fairly large river with the average trip being 30 miles and other shorter trips.? I have looked at the boats in use now, and generally they are all 20 to 30 foot length with outboard engines - 75 hp to 200 hp.? It takes about 50 min to travel the 30 miles depending on how rough the waters are, and while there is not much traffic, there are some vessels which have 2 200HP engines and makes quite a big wake.? The gas is about $120 USD.? I expect to use the boat twice per week for the 30 mile trip and twice a week for shorter trips and this is likely the maximum use; it may be less, not more.
Gas is likely to continue to increase in price.? I will be operating in a completely off-grid environment with full solar capability for the villa - PV panels, charge controller, battery bank, inverter, backup generator.? We get sun pretty much all day.? Everything including groceries and gas is a 10 min boat ride away.? No roads.
I am considering electric engines and have begun to ramping up my knowledge.? Since I am starting completely from new, I figured this may be an advantage but perhaps not.? A few very broad questions and any guidance, input, feedback, cautions would be most welcome:
1. Should I go electric?? ??
2. Is there a specific boat design for use with electric engines and river travel.??
3. Budget - No idea. What can I get for 30k, 50k, 70k?
Thanks kindly for any input
Raj
Re: Thunderstruck 10kw sailboat kit battery stuck
You didn’t mention what state of charge meter you are using or where you are measuring it. Most will operate on a loosely tracking voltage to capacity curve and most have a calibration procedure to tell them what voltage is 100%.
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Newbie - 20+ foot boat for wide/long river in Guyana, South America
Hello?
I have recently joined the forum and have been following the topics with great interest.? Within the next few months, I would like to purchase a boat (new or used) for use in a fairly large river with the average trip being 30 miles and other shorter trips.? I have looked at the boats in use now, and generally they are all 20 to 30 foot length with outboard engines - 75 hp to 200 hp.? It takes about 50 min to travel the 30 miles depending on how rough the waters are, and while there is not much traffic, there are some vessels which have 2 200HP engines and makes quite a big wake.? The gas is about $120 USD.? I expect to use the boat twice per week for the 30 mile trip and twice a week for shorter trips and this is likely the maximum use; it may be less, not more.
Gas is likely to continue to increase in price.? I will be operating in a completely off-grid environment with full solar capability for the villa - PV panels, charge controller, battery bank, inverter, backup generator.? We get sun pretty much all day.? Everything including groceries and gas is a 10 min boat ride away.? No roads.
I am considering electric engines and have begun to ramping up my knowledge.? Since I am starting completely from new, I figured this may be an advantage but perhaps not.? A few very broad questions and any guidance, input, feedback, cautions would be most welcome:
1. Should I go electric?? ??
2. Is there a specific boat design for use with electric engines and river travel.??
3. Budget - No idea. What can I get for 30k, 50k, 70k?
Thanks kindly for any input
Raj
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Re: Thunderstruck 10kw sailboat kit battery stuck
Antonio, Call Thunderstruck. They actually talk to their customers and are great folks. Cheers, Ric
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Re: Thunderstruck 10kw sailboat kit battery stuck
Interesting thank you Brian!? I have a 4x12 lead acid batteries.? I don’t think they ever give me more than 55 even when fully charged. ?
Maybe I need to turn in the controller with charger on.? Charger gives me ~58v
Most of these state of charge meters need a voltage threshold to reset to 100%. On my boat this seems to be about 58 volts. The problem I have is the controller needs to see this voltage, I have to turn on the controller soon after my pack is fully charged for it to reset, if I wait too long my battery voltage drops a bit and it does not reset.
-- Best Regards, Anton Slutsky, Ph.D.
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Re: Thunderstruck 10kw sailboat kit battery stuck
Most of these state of charge meters need a voltage threshold to reset to 100%. On my boat this seems to be about 58 volts. The problem I have is the controller needs to see this voltage, I have to turn on the controller soon after my pack is fully charged for it to reset, if I wait too long my battery voltage drops a bit and it does not reset.
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Thunderstruck 10kw sailboat kit battery stuck
Hello,
Last year I got the Thunderstruck sailboat 10kw conversion kit with it worked?great!
One problem — the battery charge indicator seem to not want to reset.? I know for sure my batteries are fully charged but the indicator showing seemingly the last value it had when we last went out last season (currently showing 80% which is what we ended the last sail on).
Would anyone know if I need to reset it someone after every trip?
TIA!
Anton -- Best Regards, Anton Slutsky, Ph.D.
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Re: EV Gavia: Electrical suggestions
Hey Myles,
Your 330wh/mi is *amazing* and approaching efficient electric car territory!
Hull: Yep, a tunnel stern and the hull design is from William Atkin from the boat “Little Water” designed in 1947 (with changes to bow and stern line and cabin) and the cabin, layout was based on Dave Gerr and his boat “Escapade” Prop: 3 bladed 16 inch prop, 22 teeth on the motor gear and 56 teeth on the shaft gear, Thoosa motor runs at 60 rpm per volt, so 2880 rpm at 48 volts.
Some measurements we took (the speed measurements were not precise unfortunately): ? 500W = 2 knots 1000W = 4 knots
1500W = 4 knots? 5000W = 5 knots 6000W = 6 knots
More testing needed!
Cheers, Jay
On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 1:50?PM Myles Twete < matwete@...> wrote: Thanks Jay.? I’m sure I missed it, but can you comment on: ·?????? Prop size/type ·?????? Tunnel counter-stern design---looks super cool ·?????? What speed was this data taken at? ? My 26’ boat With a pack that has a capacity just under 30kwh, I get pretty decent range. But it all depends on average speed. The boat can do 7knots, but that’s at about 10kw with a motor rated for just 8HP (6kw) continuous. At 6kts, the motor draws about 5kw and so at most 6hours of cruising or 36n-mi and 750wh/mi. At 5kts, power drops by half (2.5kw) and so at most 12hrs or 60n-mi and just under 500wh/mi. At 4kts, about 1.3kw is used and range could go up to 92n-mi or over 100miles or about 330wh/mi. ? Speed greatly effects power and range attainable. ? Love the boat! ? -Myles Twete 26’ Reach Of Tide, converted to electric in 2003 ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jay Johnston
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 6:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electricboats] EV Gavia: Electrical suggestions ? Thanks to all of you that provided suggestions on this (now old) thread.
We have tested the boat in the water and have promising results
Short video showing the test Distance traveled: 12.05 km / 7.48 miles
Battery used: 2.1kWh to go 7.48 miles (!)
So that is (maybe): 3.56 miles per kWh
With the full battery, that comes to 15.2 kWh * 3.56 miles = 54.1 miles on a full charge! I think this is very optimistic, and the accurate distance might be 20% lower, maybe. Changes we implemented since previous email was sent to this alias: - We are using a 12V bank (two battleborn's in parallel) in the forepeak to handle the heavy loads (bowthruster) and 12V house loads, vs DC/DC converter
- We charge the 12V bank using an AC->DC charger, powered by the Multiplus II on AC (yes, its not efficient but this maintains DC isolation between the 48V and 12V systems. We had trouble finding an isolated 48V to 12V charger)
No solar yet, really hoping the right semi-flexible panels at the right size will be available I had it working till it caught fire. Quickly put out but the range extender was toast. Yanked it out of the boat.? It would have been fine if I’d 1) installed outside the boat & 2) tighten the oil drain plugs prior to running.? During early tests it put out about 3,500 watts max. These units are advertised as having higher output in watts but only at the higher voltages. They ate amp limited.? If you have a good outside place to mount I’d recommend purchasing a 4kW DELLENT from Tom’s Machinery - AliExpress. They replaced broken items. These smaller units come pre-wired with internal electronics. They use the generator as the starter.? ? Reuben, I am interested to know more about your range extender and how it's working.
I have a Newport 28 6000# displacement monohull and have re-powered with a 48 volt 7.5kw air-cooled 3 ph AC motor and what appears to be a fake Savcon controller meant for a large "tour" vehicle. I purchased the Chinese system unused from someone who was going to convert but never finished. I have limited range because of the AGM batteries that came with the set up but 350.00 all in I'm very lucky to have it all running for the second season now. I will be building a Lipo pack out of CALB cells soon, but I would like to have a back up. I rented a small 2000 watt Honda and tried some motoring with it and it seemed to work but is less than ideal and quite stinky to have in the cockpit.
I saw your post and thought that might be perfect for my situation. How does it work? Have you needed it?
Thanks for any input!
Aaron
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Re: EV Gavia: Electrical suggestions
Thanks Jay.? I’m sure I missed it, but can you comment on: ·?????? Prop size/type ·?????? Tunnel counter-stern design---looks super cool ·?????? What speed was this data taken at? ? My 26’ boat With a pack that has a capacity just under 30kwh, I get pretty decent range. But it all depends on average speed. The boat can do 7knots, but that’s at about 10kw with a motor rated for just 8HP (6kw) continuous. At 6kts, the motor draws about 5kw and so at most 6hours of cruising or 36n-mi and 750wh/mi. At 5kts, power drops by half (2.5kw) and so at most 12hrs or 60n-mi and just under 500wh/mi. At 4kts, about 1.3kw is used and range could go up to 92n-mi or over 100miles or about 330wh/mi. ? Speed greatly effects power and range attainable. ? Love the boat! ? -Myles Twete 26’ Reach Of Tide, converted to electric in 2003 ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jay Johnston
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2023 6:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electricboats] EV Gavia: Electrical suggestions ? Thanks to all of you that provided suggestions on this (now old) thread.
We have tested the boat in the water and have promising results
Short video showing the test Distance traveled: 12.05 km / 7.48 miles
Battery used: 2.1kWh to go 7.48 miles (!)
So that is (maybe): 3.56 miles per kWh
With the full battery, that comes to 15.2 kWh * 3.56 miles = 54.1 miles on a full charge! I think this is very optimistic, and the accurate distance might be 20% lower, maybe. Changes we implemented since previous email was sent to this alias: - We are using a 12V bank (two battleborn's in parallel) in the forepeak to handle the heavy loads (bowthruster) and 12V house loads, vs DC/DC converter
- We charge the 12V bank using an AC->DC charger, powered by the Multiplus II on AC (yes, its not efficient but this maintains DC isolation between the 48V and 12V systems. We had trouble finding an isolated 48V to 12V charger)
No solar yet, really hoping the right semi-flexible panels at the right size will be available I had it working till it caught fire. Quickly put out but the range extender was toast. Yanked it out of the boat.? It would have been fine if I’d 1) installed outside the boat & 2) tighten the oil drain plugs prior to running.? During early tests it put out about 3,500 watts max. These units are advertised as having higher output in watts but only at the higher voltages. They ate amp limited.? If you have a good outside place to mount I’d recommend purchasing a 4kW DELLENT from Tom’s Machinery - AliExpress. They replaced broken items. These smaller units come pre-wired with internal electronics. They use the generator as the starter.? ? Reuben, I am interested to know more about your range extender and how it's working.
I have a Newport 28 6000# displacement monohull and have re-powered with a 48 volt 7.5kw air-cooled 3 ph AC motor and what appears to be a fake Savcon controller meant for a large "tour" vehicle. I purchased the Chinese system unused from someone who was going to convert but never finished. I have limited range because of the AGM batteries that came with the set up but 350.00 all in I'm very lucky to have it all running for the second season now. I will be building a Lipo pack out of CALB cells soon, but I would like to have a back up. I rented a small 2000 watt Honda and tried some motoring with it and it seemed to work but is less than ideal and quite stinky to have in the cockpit.
I saw your post and thought that might be perfect for my situation. How does it work? Have you needed it?
Thanks for any input!
Aaron
|
Re: EV Gavia: Electrical suggestions
Thanks to all of you that provided suggestions on this (now old) thread.
We have tested the boat in the water and have promising results
Short video showing the test
Distance traveled: 12.05 km / 7.48 miles
Battery used: 2.1kWh to go 7.48 miles (!)
So that is (maybe): 3.56 miles per kWh
With the full battery, that comes to 15.2 kWh * 3.56 miles = 54.1 miles on a full charge!
I think this is very optimistic, and the accurate distance might be 20% lower, maybe.
Changes we implemented since previous email was sent to this alias: - We are using a 12V bank (two battleborn's in parallel) in the forepeak to handle the heavy loads (bowthruster) and 12V house loads, vs DC/DC converter
- We charge the 12V bank using an AC->DC charger, powered by the Multiplus II on AC (yes, its not efficient but this maintains DC isolation between the 48V and 12V systems. We had trouble finding an isolated 48V to 12V charger)
No solar yet, really hoping the right semi-flexible panels at the right size will be available
I had it working till it caught fire. Quickly put out but the range extender was toast. Yanked it out of the boat.?
It would have been fine if I’d 1) installed outside the boat & 2) tighten the oil drain plugs prior to running.?
During early tests it put out about 3,500 watts max. These units are advertised as having higher output in watts but only at the higher voltages. They ate amp limited.?
If you have a good outside place to mount I’d recommend purchasing a 4kW DELLENT from Tom’s Machinery - AliExpress. They replaced broken items. These smaller units come pre-wired with internal electronics. They use the generator as the starter.? ? Reuben,
I am interested to know more about your range extender and how it's working.
I have a Newport 28 6000# displacement monohull and have re-powered with a 48 volt 7.5kw air-cooled 3 ph AC motor and what appears to be a fake Savcon controller meant for a large "tour" vehicle. I purchased the Chinese system unused from someone who was going to convert but never finished. I have limited range because of the AGM batteries that came with the set up but 350.00 all in I'm very lucky to have it all running for the second season now. I will be building a Lipo pack out of CALB cells soon, but I would like to have a back up. I rented a small 2000 watt Honda and tried some motoring with it and it seemed to work but is less than ideal and quite stinky to have in the cockpit.
I saw your post and thought that might be perfect for my situation. How does it work? Have you needed it?
Thanks for any input!
Aaron
|
Re: ePropulsion Pod Drive 6
There are no warranty issues with using your own batteries. Just that you don't have regen and thats not an issue for me as I already have a Watt & Sea system.?
On Thu, 11 May 2023, 03:16 Mike Gunning, < mike@...> wrote:
Sorry that I miss typed.? The note should have said “their own batteries and charger”.? The point is warranty not that other batteries or charger would word with the system.? They do work also the batteries work with other systems as well.?
But you may find warranty issues.
Mike
?
Sent from for Windows
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Re: ePropulsion Pod Drive 6
Sorry that I miss typed.? The note should have said “their own batteries and charger”.? The point is warranty not that other batteries or charger would word with the system.? They do work also the batteries work with other systems as well.?
But you may find warranty issues.
Mike
?
Sent from for Windows
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Re: ePropulsion Pod Drive 6
Nick, I don't know the answer to that one as I made my own battery (LiFePo4, 280ah @ 48v) however the local dealer is answering questions so I'll ask. Offhand, I'd think, you should just be able to connect the solar controller to the same cables the charger uses but I'm just guessing here. Like I mentioned there is an open source group reverse engineering this stuff.... need to find the link.
Paul J. Thompson
Information Technology?Manager
Henry Brooks Co. (t/a Bathroom Direct)
M 64 21 275 5001(txt only please)?F?64 9 913 3113?
E?paul@...
PO Box 58031, Botany, New Zealand 2163
5 Smales Road, East Tamaki, Manukau City
? ?
The information in this email and any attachments is confidential.
This information may be subject to legal, professional, or other privilege.
It must not be disclosed to any person without our authority.
If you are not the intended recipient you are not authorised to and must
not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
Please return this message to the sender immediately and delete any
and all copies from your system.On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 9:57?AM 63urban < 63urban@...> wrote: They do not sell the guts to go from solar to their battery. Can any of you tell me what I need to go from solar direct to their E40 battery?
Nick
Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
-------- Original message -------- Date: 2023-05-07 4:14 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [electricboats] ePropulsion Pod Drive 6
Not true. You can use any battery but currently you only get regen with their battery.? There is however an open-source project busy reverse engineering the ePropulsion protocols so that we will be able to switch on regen and send data to a NMEA 2000 or CAN buss network.? On Mon, 8 May 2023, 07:08 Mike Gunning, < mike@...> wrote:
EPropulsion uses only there one batteries and charger for warranty?
Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get
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Re: ePropulsion Pod Drive 6
They do not sell the guts to go from solar to their battery. Can any of you tell me what I need to go from solar direct to their E40 battery?
Nick
Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Paul J. Thompson" <bathroomdirectit@...> Date: 2023-05-07 4:14 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [electricboats] ePropulsion Pod Drive 6
Not true. You can use any battery but currently you only get regen with their battery.? There is however an open-source project busy reverse engineering the ePropulsion protocols so that we will be able to switch on regen and send data to a NMEA 2000 or CAN buss network.? On Mon, 8 May 2023, 07:08 Mike Gunning, < mike@...> wrote:
EPropulsion uses only there one batteries and charger for warranty?
Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get
|
Re: ePropulsion Pod Drive 6
Not true. You can use any battery but currently you only get regen with their battery.? There is however an open-source project busy reverse engineering the ePropulsion protocols so that we will be able to switch on regen and send data to a NMEA 2000 or CAN buss network.?
On Mon, 8 May 2023, 07:08 Mike Gunning, < mike@...> wrote:
EPropulsion uses only there one batteries and charger for warranty?
Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get
|
Re: ePropulsion Pod Drive 6
EPropulsion uses only there one batteries and charger for warranty?
Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get
|
Re: ePropulsion Pod Drive 6
Hi Paul,
same story - building a 33 ft wood/plywood sailboat, already purchased a 30 kWh battery cells and want to purchase ePropulsion Pod 6.
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Re: ePropulsion Pod Drive 6
I'm in the same situation with a nav 3.
Looking forward to seeing how they all stand up.
Nick
Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
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-------- Original message -------- From: Peter Grant <healingpeter4@...> Date: 2023-05-07 9:03 a.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: [electricboats] ePropulsion Pod Drive 6
Hi Paul, I am in Qld Australia. I purchased an Epropulsion pod 6kw about a year ago before the prices went up. My only drama is that my boat is still under construction…..yeah……. Love to hear how you go if you decide to purchase. Thanks, Peter Grant (kiwiinaus) On Saturday, May 6, 2023, Paul J. Thompson < bathroomdirectit@...> wrote: Is there anyone with experience? with the ePropulsion Pod Drive 6? I'm seriously thinking of buying one but I've currently got two concerns;
1. What are the realistic chances of the seal failing and water entering the unit? Has anyone who owns one ever had this problem? 2. It's mostly aluminum, How well is it likely to survive in salt water?
I'm intending to put the pod on a Badger 34, which has a flat bottom, which makes the pod drive a very easy to install option.
Thanks to all who may respond.
Paul J. Thompson
Information Technology?Manager
Henry Brooks Co. (t/a Bathroom Direct)
M 64 21 275 5001(txt only please)?F?64 9 913 3113?
E?paul@...
PO Box 58031, Botany, New Zealand 2163
? ?
The information in this email and any attachments is confidential.
This information may be subject to legal, professional, or other privilege.
It must not be disclosed to any person without our authority.
If you are not the intended recipient you are not authorised to and must
not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
Please return this message to the sender immediately and delete any
and all copies from your system.
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Hi Paul, I am in Qld Australia. I purchased an Epropulsion pod 6kw about a year ago before the prices went up. My only drama is that my boat is still under construction…..yeah……. Love to hear how you go if you decide to purchase. Thanks, Peter Grant (kiwiinaus)
On Saturday, May 6, 2023, Paul J. Thompson < bathroomdirectit@...> wrote: Is there anyone with experience? with the ePropulsion Pod Drive 6? I'm seriously thinking of buying one but I've currently got two concerns;
1. What are the realistic chances of the seal failing and water entering the unit? Has anyone who owns one ever had this problem? 2. It's mostly aluminum, How well is it likely to survive in salt water?
I'm intending to put the pod on a Badger 34, which has a flat bottom, which makes the pod drive a very easy to install option.
Thanks to all who may respond.
Paul J. Thompson
Information Technology?Manager
Henry Brooks Co. (t/a Bathroom Direct)
M 64 21 275 5001(txt only please)?F?64 9 913 3113?
E?paul@...
PO Box 58031, Botany, New Zealand 2163
? ?
The information in this email and any attachments is confidential.
This information may be subject to legal, professional, or other privilege.
It must not be disclosed to any person without our authority.
If you are not the intended recipient you are not authorised to and must
not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
Please return this message to the sender immediately and delete any
and all copies from your system.
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Ric Sanders
Mike Gunning
Artem Klochko