开云体育

I think youve got things very well scoped out.
The 7 batteries (6@6V and a house battery @ 12V)
sound right although I would expect them to be a bit
closer to 400lb than 500lb. Not much difference there,
though. You might look at the Grp GC2Bs as batteries.
The ones I use weigh 66lbs ea. so theyre "light
enough" to move around but they are still rated at 245AH
which should give you pretty good range.<br><br>I think
Joes concern about the change in waterline was
premised on you mentioning that you intend to remove the
ballast keel. How much of the 1250lbs ballast you mention
will be lost if the ballast keel is
removed?<br><br>Personally, I would probably be inclined to leave the keel
aloneI doubt that removing it will change performance
much and you can always use that centerboard as a
depthsounder when the fancy electronic stuff stops working.
(Ah, you catch a glimpse of my history with
depthsounders. I always carry a lead line on my cruising boat if
for no other reason than to wave it in front of my
latest depthsounder to let it know I mean
business!)<br><br>Just returned from an early morning Mothers Day
cruisecoffee and warm croissants as we glided along a portion
of the lake that is completely undeveloped. We
passed a couple of fishermen who just gaped---they cant
figure out what makes that boat GO!<br><br>Larry

I forgot to introduce myself yesterday. My name
is Wilfred Wright, I answer to Wilfred, Willie and
some other terms that I will not disclose on a public
forum. I am 55, married for 35 years, my current (and
only) wife is Ann. I am a retired banker and we live on
a farm in Maryland, North, Northwest of Baltimore,
right up on the PA line. I have sailed all of my life
and still love it. But, there are times and places
where sailing is not the order of the day.

I guess that my thinking on that was headed
towards offsetting the weight of the batteries. If using
a 36 volt golfcart motor and 6 volt batteries, I
would need at least seven batteries (motor and
accessories) at say 70 lbs each = 500#. While I would gain
some weight capacity by taking all the rig off,
probably not much over 100#. How much effect does 400# of
"extra" weight have on a boat that size? That's at least
two people; of course, less people on board means
more beer for the skipper. <br>That too is an
interesting question: are electric boat people more refined
than sailors? Will I have to start drinking fine wine
or Manhattens?

I finally had a chance to give the home made
outboard a short test,considering the small motor it works
well it pushes my 32 footer at about 2 knots.running
on 12 volts and > 60 amps(meter pegs at 60 amps)
the motor is 2 speed and made by Siva Engineering of
England and is out of a self propelled cylinder Webb
mower (anyone have any ideas on hp?)the leg is an old
Mariner 2 hp. with a home made 3 blade 8" prop. It will
come in handy when drifting for flat head ,instead of
starting the diesel to move out from shore 500 meters or
so when you drift in.<br>As a bonus it cost nothing
to build as I had all the bits laying around
home.but now I have to buy a deep cycle battery,ahh
well.<br><br>Gary

Hi Mr.Lurker and all,<br>Sailboat "hulls" make
good a choise for conversion to electric power.
(clean, low drag, low power hulls). One thought though,
don't sell off all the ballast yet. If your battery
bank weighs less then the ballast (and keel) removed
you'll change the waterline and that effects both
stability and the speed capability of the hull. When you
complete the boat test it (speed vs. Amps) both lightened
and rewighted. You might find you like the feel and
performance more at the old waterline.<br><br>Joe

I have been a member of this group for about two
months. All groups seem to have two or three sub-groups.
It is very interesting to see the interactions here.
Amazing camraderie, good advice all around. <br>Ihave
been looking for an electric boat for some years as I
believe that it is a much more sensible way to go,
cheaper than others, and certainly peaceful. I looked at
the pictures of Zinger's boat and loved it. What a
beautiful sheer; according to him, it is efficient and he
only has about $2,800 in the boat. So that makes three
boats at under 3,000.<br>After trading emails with
Zinger for a while, I started looking in earnest for a
boat; something to use on rivers,canals,lakes and bays;
trailerable and with some accomodations. <br>I found it in a
Tanzer 22 keel/centerboard that I purchased from
Chesapeake Regional Accessable Boating (CRAB). It was a
doner boat and is in pretty good shape. It has 1250 lbs
of ballast surrounding the centerboard with gross
displacement of about 3,100 lbs. I plan on sailing her this
summer and doing my conversion over the winter.<br>Why
is she the perfect boat? She can sleep four (two
very comfortably), has a draft of 2'0", a large
cockpit and, best of all, she is aflat deck cruiser - you
can see over the coachroof as you are seated at the
tiller.<br>What are my plans? Remove the standing rigging, drop
the centerboard/ballast keel, put on a new tracking
keel, install the Glen L design system, use the
batteries as ballast, and enjoy myself. <br>Sounds too
easy. Where am I wrong? Interested in your thoughts.

I just found an error in my propeller calculator
spread sheet. In my calculations of amps used for a
given speed I failed to factor in the motor effiency. I
discovered it when I was trying to see why my predicted
loads for Larry's "Amber" were comming out lower than
his actual data. I corrected the calculation and used
the effiency published for the motor that Larry is
using and the results came out much closer to what he
is actualy getting. Sorry about that. Anyone out
there using my sheet should keep this in mind when
trying to figure the amps draw for their system. If you
would like an updated sheet e-mail me and I will gladly
send you a new copy. Once again "Sorry"<br><br>Happy
and quite cruising<br><br><br>Don<br>e-mail
Donaldbaer@...

Thanks Chris, Its interesting that both you and
Larry were able to do the systems for under $3000 and
it's also interesting that your both using 36 Volt
systems. You didn't mention your pulley ratio between the
motor and the prop shaft. I'm sure we will all be
interested in hearing how the boat performs in the water.
<br><br>Is there anyone else out there who would liek to
describe their system.

Larry and Don -<br><br>My parts list and prices
for the launch we're building are virtually same as
LArry's. Didn't purchase E-meter, 'cuz the high school
kids using the boat will never figure out the menu
system (though I'd personally use the unit in my own
boat. <br><br>Advanced Motor, A89-4001-------$525<br>
Curtis PMC 1204-001 Controller-----------$305<br> Curtis
PB-6 throttle potbox------------------$ 70<br>
Albright main contactor----$70<br> Albright Reversing
Contactor----------------$190<br>Westach voltmeter & ammeter $100<br>Various fuses, shunt,
misc.------------------$ 45<br>Used 13 x 12 bronze prop $40<br>Used bronze
prop shaft $85<br>Cutless Bearing $35<br>1" w. cog
belt, pulleys, <br>taper bushings,shaft collars,
bearing, <br>metal for motor & bearing mounts
~$150<br>Batteries 6 Trojan 6v T-105's @ ~$65/each<br>#1 cable,
lugs, 16 ga wire, terminals ~$100<br>Figure ~$525 for a
Zivan or equal charger w/ <br> 3-stage microprocessor
control and equalize mode.<br><br>Boat is 20' LOA &
19'-7" LWL. 4'-4" BOA, 3'-7"BWL.<br>Designed
displacement ~1300 lbs. Hull weight w/rudder, but no
drivetraain or hardware ~325#. Will give actual speeds and
current draw when launched next week.

This is exactly the kind of information that we
need to share. I agree with Larry about there being 2
groups of people out here the ones who arn't technical
and the ones who are. Unfortunatly for me I tend to
fall in the latter catagory (it's the engineer in me).
This can cause me to engineer everything to death
before I proceed with an actual working system. Larry is
more practical. His approach was very economical and
now he is reaping the rewards. He's out sailing and
I'm still at the dock analysing.<br>I'll take the
data from both your Elco and from larry's "Amber" and
tabulate it. Maybe I can put it into a form and post it
here on this forum. Is anyone else willing to share
their boat information ??<br>Regarding differences in
motors. There are many approaches to the same problem.
One has to weigh the advantages of them all against
the cost. One can even say the same thing about
batteries. I have certain ideas as to what I consider to be
important in the designs. Other have there own ideas as
well. That's only human nature. I will take some time
in the near future and try to put together a paper
on this very subject and be glad to share it also.
In the mean time I would like to hear more success
stories and the detail of same.<br><br>Happy, quite
motoring.<br><br>Don

Propulsion System Statistics and
Costs<br><br>Here are the specs on Ambers propulsion system. All
components new and purchased within the last 9
months<br><br>Advanced Motor, 36V setup, 4-6hp-------$525<br>Curtis PMC
1205-101 Controller-----------$425<br>Curtis PB-6 throttle
potbox------------------$ 70<br>Albright Emergency Disconnect
w/key----$105<br>Albright Reversing Contactor----------------$190<br>CEV
FWD/REV Lever with microswitches-$295<br>Various fuses,
shunt, misc.------------------$ 45<br> Subtotal:
$1655<br>I added various gauges, the most impt.<br>of which
is the E-meter------------------------$ 199<br>36V
charger--------------------------------------$ 314<br>6- GC2B 6V 245AH
batteries-----------------$ 419<br>Pulleys,
belts-------------------------------------$ 82<br>Misc (Wire, lugs, etc.),
approx.----------------$150<br><br> TOTAL: $2819<br><br>Amber weighs in at about 1700 lbs,
23 LOA/19.75LWL and is turning a 3-blade 12X13 prop
(Dons Excel program will help me figure the optimum
prop; this one was given to me). She cruises at 4.5mph
@ 20A for a comfortable range of 45 mi. Ive now
had her up to 7.1 mph (above hull speed) at about
80A. Typically I cruise at 5.5mph.

Pauls message is important. There are two very
distinct groups of people involved in this club: 1) the
technical people, who are interested in advancing the
capacities of electric boating and eradicating the
inefficiencies; and 2) the non-technical people who would like to
know enough to keep their systems operating (or
install them) but otherwise are mostly interested in
enjoying their boats. I am in the latter category. I dont
know how my TV works, how my stereo works or how my
computer worksand to be honest about it, I dont want
someone to try and explain them to me. I would just like
them to work, provide their benefits, and allow me to
call someone in (on a very rare basis) to make them
work again when they stop.<br><br>Electric boating is
sufficiently non-mainstream at this point that my desire for
"hands-free operation" is a bit too ambitious. I need to know
something about how all this works. But electric boat
propulsion has been around for a long time and there are
lots of DC electric propulsions systems in place right
now (golf carts are one example) that I dont need to
re-invent the wheel unless I insist on it. The more
"far-out" and esoteric the system I install, the less
likely Ill find someone who can troubleshoot and fix it
for me.<br><br>When I first decided that Amber should
be electric I had a hard time keeping amps and volts
straight in my mind. I calculated and recalculated what I
thought her power needs would be (she was designed for a
diesel) and what her range would be for various battery
bank configurations. But in the end, as I talked to
people, I realized that the variances in the discussions
were shrinking and I was definitely in the ballpark.
Finally I just decided to go for it and, happily, found
that my calculations had all been on the low side.
<br><br>So my advice (until companies are manufacturing
"packages" as Paul suggests) is to start with the hp
requirements of the existing designeither based on the engine
to be replaced or on the design. Divide that by 4 or
so to get the roughly equivalent electric hp rating
and then price out the system from a component
supplier. <br><br>Don is certainly right that the right
prop and reduction is the next step. The general idea
there is that bigger prop diameter, steeper pitch, and
slower shaft speed are all desirable in comparison to
the internal combustion engine you are replacing. But
the exact combo is subject, to some extent, to trial
and error and the swapping out of those components is
not an expensive proposition anyway.<br><br>Larry

Don - I don't know if this is all the information
required but it is a start. This is the data on my
14'Elco<br><br>LOA - 14 feet<br>WL - 13 feet 6 inches<br>Beam - 4
feet<br>Weight - 390 lbs<br>Motor - 24VDC, perm. magnet, .5 HP
(.073kw)<br>Prop - 6" three blade, 2.5 inch from front to
back<br>Motor Pulley - 2 inch inside diameter<br>Prop Shaft
Pulley - 3.75 inch inside diameter<br>Batteries - two
Group 31 12VDC 105 AH capacity<br>Top Speed - 4.5 knots
/ 5.3 mph<br>Cruising Range - 50 miles<br><br>Is
this the type of information and format that will
help? Paul

The following was e-mailed to me. I checked out
the site and thought it would be of interest to club
members. I have also added it to our list of links.
Paul<br><br><a href= target=new></a><br><br>Glen-L offers three designs for electric boats, plus
plans for electric power options. I think your members
will find the above page interesting.<br>--
<br>Barry<br>webMASTER<br><a href= target=new></a><br>Be sure to register your Glen-L project in the
Project Registry and don't forget to update.

Don - it seems that much of what I am looking for
is contained in your posting. So we are looking at
3, 5, and 8 HP motors for most anything below 30
foot. That is a start. Perhaps we need to clarify that
further - as I have been reading the postings and find
that there are a variety of types of motors. Or - is
the type of motor more of a personal choice - like
Mac and PC? Now it also seems to be that the pulley
ratios are something that could likewise be established
given the length of the boat, size of the motor and
size of the prop. It just seems to me that for
something as simple as a 24' displacement hull launch there
should be one or two combinations of motor, pulleys and
prop that would be universally acceptable. If we could
establish that and post it to our club - I think it would
be most helpful. Perhaps if we followed your
suggestion and cataloged what is already in use we would be
far down the road. Thanks for helping out. Paul

Paul: I'm with you! It's confusing enough as it
is! As I might have mentioned (or some of you might
have realized!) I consider myself "technically
impaired"! Doesn't mean that I'm stupid, but just that brain
is not willing to wrestle with formulas etc. I'm
also hard-headed and determined to have electric
propulsion or - nothing! I will NOT put another diesel
inside my home! If the option is forking out $10.000,-
to $12.000,- for an electric system...then I'll
stick with sails and the occasional push from my
dinghy. It's really a shame that something so obviosly
right as an electric motor for a boat has to be so
difficult to get/decide on, and it escapes me why there is
not any financial support available for developers of
non-polluting systems.<br>Sitting in "my" marina, I daily watch
the bilge-pumps squirting oily bilge water out in the
harbour. Pretty disgusting, and I wonder what the people
who managed to ban the more effective bottom-paints
are looking now? But maybe the oily slick inhibts the
spread of mosquitoes - what do I know!<br>Looking at
systems (sorry, but now I'm finally back on the subject
again...) the different options seems to range from between
$2.000,- to $12.000,- without batteries nor installation.
How is one to know? Would love some
sucess-stories!<br>This club is wonderfull, giving room for all kind of
opinions and ideas. And I enjoy the positive spirit of all
members. <br>Thanks to all of you!<br>Kirsti.

Pual,<br> You are correct it would be possible
for someone to develop a "Kit" for converting to
electric drive. This type of a thing does exist for
autombile conversion. I think the problem is in the
propeller. If the wrong prop is used then the results will
be less than optimum. If the correct propeller is
selected it can made a big defference in range. I know
that all of the other components are off the shelf
available. Maybe what needed is a conversion kit designed
for a range of props. I personaly would like to find
out the prop data (Pitch and diameter) that exist for
a number of already retro fitted hull. Once this is
in place it should be easy to engineer retrofit
packages for them. I would think that 3, 5 and 8 HP motors
would cover most application below 30 ft. and maybe it
would even be good up to about 40 ft. The problem is in
selecting the pulleys to achieve the proper ration between
the motor shaft and the propeller shaft.<br><br>Just
putting in my $02 worth

Ok Bob here's the $$ and cents of it
all<br><br>an Advanced motor capable of 8 HP about $ 850<br>a
Curtis PWM Controller about $1800<br>You will also need
a battery charger about $1000<br>also you will need
some sort of a bearing with <br>Pulley and belts to
drive the system. Id plan on<br>spending any where from
$200-$400 depending on the bearing type etc.<br>There will
be other misc expensis such as cable for power and
undoubably some mounting hardware better figure a few
hundred more there.<br> The above come to about $5000.00
This does not include any batteries and assumes you do
all of the work yourself. The batteries depending on
range can run you about another $2000.<br> I may have
left out a few item but the above pretty much covers
it as far as I can tell. <br> Now the next question
is, is the Irwin worth it. You can be the only judge
of that.

My interest in an electric drive train is based
more on a clean / trouble free system...however the
reason I mentioned the outboard alternative is one does
have to weigh the economic reality and the thought of
putting in a electric system that cost six times the cost
of the boat is just not on.

Bob,<br><br>If the only reason you are ever going
to use the engine is to only help you get into or
out of a slip that is easy to get into or out of,
then an outboard should kinda work. An outboard, on a
boat of this size, will be of no other use except for
getting you back when there is NO WIN and NO SEAS. If
this is the case, stick to that used outboard.<br>Bob,
keep in mind that the Irwin 28 is a fairly large 28
footer. <br><br>Good sailing,<br>Eric