Defender is a reliable vendor. I would buy my RIBS and motors for my Island Pilots from them.?
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Re: Has Anyone Put an Hour Meter in the Electric Propulsion system?
I added a cheap meter from eBay or Amazon, mostly to fill the hole where the old meter was. It accepts 12-80V I believe so I just added a small lead from the contactor so it ticks away anytime the key is turned on. Not perfect as it shows time regenerating as well but I guess that's wear and tear also.
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It's something like this.
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Re: Has Anyone Put an Hour Meter in the Electric Propulsion system?
I agree with Myles that there may not be a practical reason for needing an hour meter. But I do think it would be a very nice to have feature.
On my diesel boat, I track the hours and fuel levels in my log.? It's nice to be able to reference for other (not necessarily engine related) reasons.
And it's awesome bragging rights.? ?It's hard to say how many miles you've cruised.? But you can at least say how many hours you've put on your system.
It might also be nice for battery life.? ?At 0 hours, you installed new batters.? At XXX hours, you observed the battery capacity was at ZZ percent, compared to new.? ?At YYY hours, controller / battery / cable / motor failed for whatever reason and was replaced.
Necessary - no. Nice to have - I think so.
John
On Wednesday, July 17, 2024 at 11:22:06 AM CDT, Myles Twete via groups.io <matwete@...> wrote:
I converted my boat to electric in 2003 and have been active in this forum, its predecessor on Yahoo Groups (which I owned/moderated for a very long time) and on the ElectricBoating forum (which I started) before that.? I haven’t used any hour meter on my system. It took 20 years before I had a controller die---think it was a year ago---and that was likely due to ignoring weed pileup on my prop versus having hundreds or thousands of hours on the controller. ? For those few of us who still run their boat with brush motors, there’s a case to be made for having an hour meter in order to estimate time for replacing brushes (I’ve gone thru 3 or 4 brush sets over the past 21 years).? Having said that, perhaps a better estimator of brush wear though would be to track AH or KWH since run time alone doesn’t reflect the stressors (current, speed and temperature) that work together to cause the brushes to wear. ? -MT ?
On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 11:23?PM THOMAS VANDERMEULEN via <tvinypsi= [email protected]> wrote: Has anyone out there seen fit to put an hour meter in their electric propulsion system?? If so, where amonng the functional circuits did you put it?
Just curious to hear any thinking on the usefulness of an hour meter.
Thanks!
[-tv]
Thomas VanderMeulen
Plainwell, MI
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Re: Has Anyone Put an Hour Meter in the Electric Propulsion system?
I converted my boat to electric in 2003 and have been active in this forum, its predecessor on Yahoo Groups (which I owned/moderated for a very long time) and on the ElectricBoating forum (which I started) before that.? I haven’t used any hour meter on my system. It took 20 years before I had a controller die---think it was a year ago---and that was likely due to ignoring weed pileup on my prop versus having hundreds or thousands of hours on the controller. ? For those few of us who still run their boat with brush motors, there’s a case to be made for having an hour meter in order to estimate time for replacing brushes (I’ve gone thru 3 or 4 brush sets over the past 21 years).? Having said that, perhaps a better estimator of brush wear though would be to track AH or KWH since run time alone doesn’t reflect the stressors (current, speed and temperature) that work together to cause the brushes to wear. ? -MT ?
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On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 11:23?PM THOMAS VANDERMEULEN via <tvinypsi= [email protected]> wrote: Has anyone out there seen fit to put an hour meter in their electric propulsion system?? If so, where amonng the functional circuits did you put it?
Just curious to hear any thinking on the usefulness of an hour meter.
Thanks!
[-tv]
Thomas VanderMeulen
Plainwell, MI
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Re: Has Anyone Put an Hour Meter in the Electric Propulsion system?
Hello Thomas,
Most motor controllers have an hour counter built-in. I am using DMC SuperSigma 2? controllers, and they do this tracking, with the information accessible with their handheld controller.
What is the use of it? Not much really, as unlike gas powered motors where there is a regular maintenance schedule to adhere to, we do not have this issue on an electric propulsion.
Jerome
On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 11:23?PM THOMAS VANDERMEULEN via <tvinypsi= [email protected]> wrote: Has anyone out there seen fit to put an hour meter in their electric propulsion system?? If so, where amonng the functional circuits did you put it?
Just curious to hear any thinking on the usefulness of an hour meter.
Thanks!
[-tv]
Thomas VanderMeulen
Plainwell, MI
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Bobkart, Thanks for the information.? I was not aware of them before, but will seriously consider them now. ? Pat ? ?
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From: [email protected] On Behalf Of bobkart
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2024 6:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Torqeedo? Back when I was deciding on an electric outboard motor (2021), I found Torqeedo to be overpriced compared to what I settled on (ePropulsion).
On the ePropulsion website you can find approved dealers near you.? Tiny Boat Nation is an approved dealer (for example).
At TBNation.net, I'm seeing $3K for the Navy 3 and $3.6K for the Navy 6.? There will of course be another few hundred dollars for the controller.
My Navy 6 has worked flawlessly on my four-meter power cat.? Through last year I have 40+ trips, 500+ miles, 80+ hours on the motor.
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I much prefer dealing with local businesses. Very useful when you need service. Worth a few $ extra.?
I bought an ePropulsion 1.0 from Annapolis Hybrid Marine. I met them at the US Sailboat Show. They were very helpful in advising me: brought a demo motor to my house (across the Bay) and worked overtime to get what I needed in a time of severe supply chain SNAFUs.?
/ Greg DeCowsky ?? Sent from my AyePhone??
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On Jul 8, 2024, at 18:42, Glenn Holland via groups.io <gholland1@...> wrote:
?
Motors
Guys,? There's something that occurred early this year that bares keeping in mind.? Torqeedo was bought by Yamaha.? Just sayin...keep your eyes and ears OPEN.? Glenn, Torq and Yammer owner.
Back when I was deciding on an electric outboard motor (2021), I found Torqeedo to be overpriced compared to what I settled on (ePropulsion).
On the ePropulsion website you can find approved dealers near you.? Tiny Boat Nation is an approved dealer (for example).
At TBNation.net, I'm seeing $3K for the Navy 3 and $3.6K for the Navy 6.? There will of course be another few hundred dollars for the controller.
My Navy 6 has worked flawlessly on my four-meter power cat.? Through last year I have 40+ trips, 500+ miles, 80+ hours on the motor.
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Motors
Guys,? There's something that occurred early this year that bares keeping in mind.? Torqeedo was bought by Yamaha.? Just sayin...keep your eyes and ears OPEN.? Glenn, Torq and Yammer owner.
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Back when I was deciding on an electric outboard motor (2021), I found Torqeedo to be overpriced compared to what I settled on (ePropulsion).
On the ePropulsion website you can find approved dealers near you.? Tiny Boat Nation is an approved dealer (for example).
At TBNation.net, I'm seeing $3K for the Navy 3 and $3.6K for the Navy 6.? There will of course be another few hundred dollars for the controller.
My Navy 6 has worked flawlessly on my four-meter power cat.? Through last year I have 40+ trips, 500+ miles, 80+ hours on the motor.
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Back when I was deciding on an electric outboard motor (2021), I found Torqeedo to be overpriced compared to what I settled on (ePropulsion).
On the ePropulsion website you can find approved dealers near you.? Tiny Boat Nation is an approved dealer (for example).
At TBNation.net, I'm seeing $3K for the Navy 3 and $3.6K for the Navy 6.? There will of course be another few hundred dollars for the controller.
My Navy 6 has worked flawlessly on my four-meter power cat.? Through last year I have 40+ trips, 500+ miles, 80+ hours on the motor.
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Hello everyone,
It's been a while since I've checked in here.? About 15 years ago, I installed a Torqeedo Cruise 4 on my 24 foot pontoon and have been very pleased with the results.? I am now interested in doing a very similar project and wanted to get input from you guys. I see prices have risen a lot, but so has inflation.? $5,000ish is what I am expecting (but less would be nice).? That's just for the motor as I already have a 48v bank of LiFePO4's.?
So, my questions are:
Is Torqeedo still a good choice???
Where should I buy one?? A local marina?? I don't see much on Torqeedo's site as far as places that stock them.? I do see ads for places like "Defender Marine" but I don't have any experience with them.? I feel funny putting a $5,000 item in an online shopping cart and pressing "buy now" without getting some guidance first.? (By the way, I'm in northeastern Ohio on an small inland chain of lakes.? (There are a number of marinas near by, but none seem to be Torqeedo dealers or have any interest in electric motors.)?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions or ideas,
Pat
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Re: Electric Sailboat Ride
Hi All,?
Extending my offer (again) to anyone interested in checking out an electric sailboat. It will either be on my boat, an O'Day 31 (details below) or an O'Day 35. The 35' has an a Waterworld 10kw direct drive system. Both boats have a custom aluminum solar bimini with two Maxeon 475 watt panels. These panels charge the batteries fully in two sunny days or while using the boat add about 50% range. While my boat has always been only solar powered, this amount of power is a real game changer.?
Boat is located in Atlantic Highlands, NJ.
O'day 31 8.1kw brushless motor 10.2kwh lifepo4? Orion JR BMS? Victron monitoring? Brunton Autoprop
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
ABYC Certified Marine? Electrical Technician?
On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 11:39:50 AM EDT, Matt Foley <matt@...> wrote:
Hi Ken,?
See attached.?
Not proportional. I imagine this is partly due to the Autoprop maximizing thrust at any rpm.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Thursday, October 28, 2021, 04:40:26 PM EDT, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@...> wrote:
Do you track your rpm and did it remain constant as the speed increases?
On Oct 28, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Matt Foley <matt@...> wrote:
? See attached
Finally getting around posting the stats. Missing some data points, but you will get the point. Note, the wattage measurement on the 1803/Curtis setup are from the controller. Add about 10% for overall system wattage.
O'Day 31
Length at waterline 25' 7in Beam 10' 9in Draft "5'3in deep, 4' shoal" Displacement "10,100, 10,400 shoal"
My original setup was direct drive with a Saietta 7.5kw, 4QD controller and a 12"x7 prop
New setup ME1803 8.1kw, Curtis 1236SE, 16" Brunton Autorpop. First try was 2:1 reduction. I was hitting my amp limit at 6.1 knots. Changed to a 3.26:1. That allowed me to kit 7knots at 9000 watts. 10.2kwh lifepo4. 51.2 nominal.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 04:28:08 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
Thanks for the details.?
I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral.?? It would then stay feathered in neutral.? If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin.? I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather.? But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process.? I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg).? But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.?
The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.?
I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.
What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?
I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience.?? I was planning to start with 3:1 myself.? This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V.? 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800.? I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch.? I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing.? I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.?
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
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On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:
Hi Dan,
?
My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.?
?
I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.?
?
Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my? use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller?
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In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.?
?
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
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On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
?
?
Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??
What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???
Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
?
<RiverRyder Saietta vs ME1803.pdf>
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Re: Where should an hour meter go?
On Jun 28, 2024, at 3:07 PM, THOMAS VANDERMEULEN < tvinypsi@...> wrote:
What's the right spot in an electric propulsion system for an hour meter?
Which component(s) do people feel are most important to track usage time?
This is likely something simple to do, and would also be appreciated by any future prospective purchaser, I believe.
I was thinking about connecting it to the contactor that activates the motor controller.? But alternative ideas would be welcome.
(Of course, if there's an argument for not even bothering, I'd appreciate hearing that, too!)
Canadian Electric Boat Association
Association Canadienne des Bateaux Electriques
12557258 Canada Association
102 Lakeshore Ave,
Toronto Islands
Toronto, ON
Canada M5J 1X9
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Re: Has Anyone Put an Hour Meter in the Electric Propulsion system?
On Jul 7, 2024, at 10:39 PM, THOMAS VANDERMEULEN < tvinypsi@...> wrote:
Has anyone out there seen fit to put an hour meter in their electric propulsion system?? If so, where amonng the functional circuits did you put it?
Just curious to hear any thinking on the usefulness of an hour meter.
Thanks!
[-tv]
Thomas VanderMeulen
Plainwell, MI
Canadian Electric Boat Association
Association Canadienne des Bateaux Electriques
12557258 Canada Association
102 Lakeshore Ave,
Toronto Islands
Toronto, ON
Canada M5J 1X9
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Where should an hour meter go?
What's the right spot in an electric propulsion system for an hour meter?
Which component(s) do people feel are most important to track usage time?
This is likely something simple to do, and would also be appreciated by any future prospective purchaser, I believe.
I was thinking about connecting it to the contactor that activates the motor controller.? But alternative ideas would be welcome.
(Of course, if there's an argument for not even bothering, I'd appreciate hearing that, too!)
|
Has Anyone Put an Hour Meter in the Electric Propulsion system?
Has anyone out there seen fit to put an hour meter in their electric propulsion system?? If so, where amonng the functional circuits did you put it?
Just curious to hear any thinking on the usefulness of an hour meter.
Thanks!
[-tv]
Thomas VanderMeulen
Plainwell, MI
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Re: How does the Curtis F4A controller calculate battery state of charge (SOC) ?
This sounds a bit misleading to me. ? Yes, with lead acid and with some Lithium chemistries, particularly Lithium Ion, measuring voltage alone can give a good indication of SOC.? Having said that, the SOC does not indicate how many AmpHours remain.? I mean, the older and more sulfated a lead-acid battery set is, the more voltage alone does not tell you much at all. ?Historically, EV conversion folks have used current monitoring via shunts and amp-hour estimation (e.g. using Xantrex Link-10) to track actual Amphours returned in charge and Amphours delivered in use.? It was really the preferred and reliable way to be sure how much actual “capacity” (vs SOC%) was available for a trip.? Many times I was disappointed to find that my “fully charged” lead acid pack would deliver far less than I expected, leading me to fire up my generator while underway on my boat. ?Since going to lithium ion on my boat, voltage measurement alone is quite sufficient to inform how much capacity remains. ? Having said all that, I think monitoring actual amp-hours absorbed and delivered is very good information to have.? You’re in a boat, perhaps motoring downstream several miles, then up another branch of water or upwind or against tide and it’s important to track capacity used so that you can estimate whether or not you need to slow down in order to have the capacity to reach the destination. ? FWIW- ? -MT ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Darin
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2024 8:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electricboats] How does the Curtis F4A controller calculate battery state of charge (SOC) ? ? Battery voltage is usually used alone to calculate SOC for lead acid, which explains why you don't have a hall effect sensor.? Yes, I would say the BDI number is probably the same as SOC for this purpose.? I'm surprised to hear that Thunderstruck hasn't been helpful.? I've always had good support from them personally.?? ? On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 10:43?PM SVTwister via <yellowchair=[email protected]> wrote: I don't have a shunt or hall-effect sensor to measure current at the battery cable. The display is connected to the Curtis controller which does not have any auxiliary sensors. The controller measures current, which is one of the data the display shows, so it could use that to calculate amp-hours, or it could use the voltage which is another thing the controller measures and displays.
I have four 100 Ah, 12 volt lead-acid batteries, by the way (in series for 48 volts). I stated this when I ordered the kit from Thunderstruck a couple of years ago, so I am wondering if the controller was programmed for my battery bank and how it calculates state of charge. Thunderstruck does not want to or cannot answer these questions.
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Re: How does the Curtis F4A controller calculate battery state of charge (SOC) ?
Lars,?
Battery voltage is usually used alone to calculate SOC for lead acid, which explains why you don't have a hall effect sensor.? Yes, I would say the BDI number is probably the same as SOC for this purpose.? I'm surprised to hear that Thunderstruck hasn't been helpful.? I've always had good support from them personally.??
Darin
On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 10:43?PM SVTwister via <yellowchair= [email protected]> wrote: I don't have a shunt or hall-effect sensor to measure current at the battery cable. The display is connected to the Curtis controller which does not have any auxiliary sensors. The controller measures current, which is one of the data the display shows, so it could use that to calculate amp-hours, or it could use the voltage which is another thing the controller measures and displays.
I have four 100 Ah, 12 volt lead-acid batteries, by the way (in series for 48 volts). I stated this when I ordered the kit from Thunderstruck a couple of years ago, so I am wondering if the controller was programmed for my battery bank and how it calculates state of charge. Thunderstruck does not want to or cannot answer these questions.
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Re: How does the Curtis F4A controller calculate battery state of charge (SOC) ?
I don't have a shunt or hall-effect sensor to measure current at the battery cable. The display is connected to the Curtis controller which does not have any auxiliary sensors. The controller measures current, which is one of the data the display shows, so it could use that to calculate amp-hours, or it could use the voltage which is another thing the controller measures and displays.
I have four 100 Ah, 12 volt lead-acid batteries, by the way (in series for 48 volts). I stated this when I ordered the kit from Thunderstruck a couple of years ago, so I am wondering if the controller was programmed for my battery bank and how it calculates state of charge. Thunderstruck does not want to or cannot answer these questions.
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Re: How does the Curtis F4A controller calculate battery state of charge (SOC) ?
I have a thunderstruck kit also but using the dilithium display.? I have a current sensor on the main battery cable that the display uses to "count coulombs" and estimate SOC.? If you have lithium batteries it's probably a similar setup for you as you can't really measure SOC very well from voltage because of the flat lithium discharge curve.? You should see a toroidal device around one of your cables very close to the battery.
Is there a shunt sensor on the negative terminal of the battery??? It would need that to be able to count amp-hours.
On 2024-06-20 12:04 pm, SVTwister wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I have a Thunderstruck 10 kW kit with a Curtis AC F4-A controller and a Curtis 3140 display. The display shows BDI (battery discharge indicator, which I guess is the same as State Of? Charge), battery voltage, current, rpm, motor temp, and controller temp--one at a time. There is a button to toggle between the different data. How does the controller calculate State Of Charge for the battery? Is it based on battery voltage or is it counting amp-hours?
Cheers,
Lars
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Re: How does the Curtis F4A controller calculate battery state of charge (SOC) ?
Is there a shunt sensor on the negative terminal of the battery??? It would need that to be able to count amp-hours.
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On 2024-06-20 12:04 pm, SVTwister wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I have a Thunderstruck 10 kW kit with a Curtis AC F4-A controller and a Curtis 3140 display. The display shows BDI (battery discharge indicator, which I guess is the same as State Of? Charge), battery voltage, current, rpm, motor temp, and controller temp--one at a time. There is a button to toggle between the different data. How does the controller calculate State Of Charge for the battery? Is it based on battery voltage or is it counting amp-hours?
Cheers,
Lars
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Reuben Trane
Glenn Holland
bobkart
THOMAS VANDERMEULEN
SVTwister