Re: Advice for electric conversion
Hi guys, I have a 42¡¯ 12 ton (overweight) 1990 Catana catamaran. I replaced one of the Volvo Penta 30+ year old 2000 series model 2003 motors when it broke an unobtainable crank. I ended up installing a Thunderstruck AC34. I had a new aluminum bracket made and mated the electric motor shaft directly to the input shaft ?of the Volvo 120 sail drive.
?We?currently have a 48 volt 200 amp hour Li battery bank which is sufficient for an hour or 3 at a time at pretty much full power (5+ knots) before we need to start getting power back into the system. This will get us in and out of marinas, docks, moorings etc with no issues. With our current generator charging ability we can run at about 3 + knot indefinitely or until out of diesel.?
I?made several missteps along the way but am now very pleased with to overall project result.
About all I would like yet to do is make a new shaft extension from the VP sail drive vertical shaft, a ?new plate for the sail drive front face, a new plate for new top plate for the new vertical shaft, ?a new bracket for the electric motor to allow it to be moved vertically and oriented to the new shaft. This would reduce some friction and allow use of the original motor throttle. Currently I have to use the electric motor in only one rotation and shift forward and reverse using the sail drive transmission.
? Huh, just thinking about it while writing this I now have a sail drive question I¡¯ll need to research. Could I have a new shaft vertices shaft with a bevel gear made that would be the correct length to meet up with a new or use the existing horizontal input shaft allowing me to get rid of having to shift forward and reverse using the clutches and gears of the VP sail drive? Any thought would be appreciated.
Cheers, Ric
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Re: Power in and out of battery bank
Great point.? Also, if you¡¯re like me and don¡¯t necessarily use actual chargers, but instead power supplies used as a 2-or 3-stage charger, consider that as a charger, the power supply needs to be able to handle running in current limit for a long time (most of the charge cycle).? A friend bought a 30amp ¡°charger¡± for his boat pack but quickly found it would just shut off after long.? I looked into its detail design and the power control chip used and indeed the circuit was doing what it was wired up to do.? In his case, I got this resolved by adding a resistor in one spot that based on the specs of the chip allowed the power supply to run in current limit continuously.? We also found that the subsequent iteration of these ¡°Meanwell¡± power supply/chargers actual include a switch allowing enabling of 2-stage charging (constant current limit ¡°CI¡± phase). ? Also when you are cruising (genset running, chargers delivering and motor pushing), if you really need maximum or some minimum amount of steady power from your genset to the pack, be sure that the pack voltage is BELOW the CV set point for your charger/power supplies.? Listen to the genset and if it starts running easier, there¡¯s your clue.? It¡¯s very easy to think you¡¯re still getting full power to the pack only to find that the voltage rose slightly and now one or more of the supplies starts ramping its current output down.? When this happens you can also experience ¡°motor-boating¡± or a cycling between full-current, then lower, then full again, then lower again as the chargers drift in and out of the CV ramp.? To avoid this, increase the speed of your motor until the charge voltage drops below the start of the CV ramp. ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matthew Geier
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2023 8:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Power in and out of battery bank ? Some battery charges have protection circuits that may kick in if you are drawing down on the battery while the charger is running, as the load looks like a potential battery fault. Many chargers however are fine running a load at the same time. I would check your charger / solar controller documentation. There may even be option settings on the devices for this. ? On Wed, 27 Sept 2023 at 22:16, Matt Foley <matt@...> wrote: They are correct you can¡¯t! Not because it will damage the battery, it¡¯s just physically not possible. Energy is either flowing in or out.? If the load is greater than the charging source, it will pull from the source(s) simultaneously. If the load is less than the charging source, it will power the load and charge the battery.?
You are fine. Happy motoring.? ?Hi All
Very fundamental beginner's question here.
I currently have a 160amp hour 48-volt closed cell battery bank running a thunderstruck 10KW motor and all works well. ( Looking forward to lithium in the future).
QUESTION: If I am charging the battery using solar panels - or in some cases a generator - can I run the motor at the same time?
There a several claims on Google search that you cannot charge and discharge a battery bank at the same time.?
If you are running solar panels ( which I am about to install) - I can't imagine that you switch them off each time you want to run the motor.
Can someone please clarify if I can charge and discharge simultaneously, or will this damage the batteries or create other issues?
The expert help from this group is very much appreciated.
Richard
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Re: Power in and out of battery bank
A fuse will interrupt if the current is too high, it is not a device to avoid overvoltage. A low or even zero current is quite possible in a case of a too high voltage.
You should evaluate what amuont of overvoltage the motor controller is able to take without damage. Then select a proper charger to prevent a voltage higher than this threshold at the output of charger (or any other source).
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Re: Power in and out of battery bank
Hi Richard,
A fuse is a good idea.? BTW, industrial motor controllers here in the States usually have a fuse (or breaker) _and_ an 'overload.' Overloads are specialized devices designed to sense the long term heating of the motor's windings and shut off the motor if it's getting too hot.? It might seem redundant but, the fuses and breakers are typically rated well above the maximum current that would burn the motor.? Really they're more to protect the wiring than the motor.? You probably have a fuse and an overload _in_ the controller.
However, fuses and breakers are over_current_ protection.? The overvoltage protection is a different mechanism.? It might be that the overvoltage causes an overcurrent situation, but it's probably not good practice to count on that.? The voltage rating is more related to the wire's insulation breakdown rating than the wire's size.
If you're asking these questions you're probably already well on your way to a good setup.? Fair winds and following seas amigo!
On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 07:00:32 PM CDT, Richard Holden <richard.holden@...> wrote:
Hi
Thanks for all the feedback folks - really appreciated it from down here in New Zealand, and now seems very obvious when?explained correctly.
With the comment about driving the motor supply to too high voltage. I was concerned about that and set a 100amp fuse between the motor?controller?and the battery - and I did once pop that reset fuse in a panic. I figured that the motor could draw 208 amps (10K motor / 48-volt system ? ) - which may kill or maim the close-cell electric car batteries - so I set up the fuse. Not sure if this is a great idea or a fail.
Cheers again - really enjoy the information I get from the experienced minds in this group
Richard
On Fri, 29 Sept 2023 at 06:29, Dave Yamakuchi via <dyamakuchi= [email protected]> wrote:
Just make sure you're not driving the motor's supply to too high a voltage.? Generally, you won't and often actually can't have this problem.? The only way you might get into trouble is if there's not a proper charge controller with over-voltage protection between the charging system and the motor _and_ you're charging the batteries up to 'full.'
Note: it's really the same problem if you don't have a good controller charging the batteries even _without_ the motor.? Charge applied to a 'full' battery can overcharge and damage the cells.? The charge controller/balancer makes sure your cells don't get overcharged.? That's one of it's jobs.
As an example: On MinnKota 12V trolling motors, the Max voltage allowed is 13.6V? This is actually lower than the 14+ volts some chargers will apply to fast charge a 12V battery.? This would be a problem.? IDK the max allowable for _your_ motor, but if you're charging with potentially more power than the motor can draw, you can end up significantly higher than the nominal 48V.? Just make sure your motor is cool with whatever might happen worst case...
Just to clarify: you can!
There's no problem charging the battery and using the motor at the same time.
The only risk I see is that if the motor is regenerated (charged via the motor) and via a charger, the battery voltage may rise without "control", and even then... the charger will stop, and if the motor's speed controller is properly adjusted, regeneration will stop too!
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Re: Power in and out of battery bank
Some battery charges have protection circuits that may kick in if you are drawing down on the battery while the charger is running, as the load looks like a potential battery fault. Many chargers however are fine running a load at the same time. I would check your charger / solar controller documentation. There may even be option settings on the devices for this.
On Wed, 27 Sept 2023 at 22:16, Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote: They are correct you can¡¯t! Not because it will damage the battery, it¡¯s just physically not possible. Energy is either flowing in or out.?
If the load is greater than the charging source, it will pull from the source(s) simultaneously. If the load is less than the charging source, it will power the load and charge the battery.? You are fine. Happy motoring.? Matt Foley
Sunlight Conversions? 1-201-914-0466
ABYC Certified Marine? Electrical Technician
?Hi All
Very fundamental beginner's question here.
I currently have a 160amp hour 48-volt closed cell battery bank running a thunderstruck 10KW motor and all works well. ( Looking forward to lithium in the future).
QUESTION: If I am charging the battery using solar panels - or in some cases a generator - can I run the motor at the same time?
There a several claims on Google search that you cannot charge and discharge a battery bank at the same time.?
If you are running solar panels ( which I am about to install) - I can't imagine that you switch them off each time you want to run the motor.
Can someone please clarify if I can charge and discharge simultaneously, or will this damage the batteries or create other issues?
The expert help from this group is very much appreciated.
Richard
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Re: Power in and out of battery bank
Hi
Thanks for all the feedback folks - really appreciated it from down here in New Zealand, and now seems very obvious when?explained correctly.
With the comment about driving the motor supply to too high voltage. I was concerned about that and set a 100amp fuse between the motor?controller?and the battery - and I did once pop that reset fuse in a panic. I figured that the motor could draw 208 amps (10K motor / 48-volt system ? ) - which may kill or maim the close-cell electric car batteries - so I set up the fuse. Not sure if this is a great idea or a fail.
Cheers again - really enjoy the information I get from the experienced minds in this group
Richard
On Fri, 29 Sept 2023 at 06:29, Dave Yamakuchi via <dyamakuchi= [email protected]> wrote:
Just make sure you're not driving the motor's supply to too high a voltage.? Generally, you won't and often actually can't have this problem.? The only way you might get into trouble is if there's not a proper charge controller with over-voltage protection between the charging system and the motor _and_ you're charging the batteries up to 'full.'
Note: it's really the same problem if you don't have a good controller charging the batteries even _without_ the motor.? Charge applied to a 'full' battery can overcharge and damage the cells.? The charge controller/balancer makes sure your cells don't get overcharged.? That's one of it's jobs.
As an example: On MinnKota 12V trolling motors, the Max voltage allowed is 13.6V? This is actually lower than the 14+ volts some chargers will apply to fast charge a 12V battery.? This would be a problem.? IDK the max allowable for _your_ motor, but if you're charging with potentially more power than the motor can draw, you can end up significantly higher than the nominal 48V.? Just make sure your motor is cool with whatever might happen worst case...
Just to clarify: you can!
There's no problem charging the battery and using the motor at the same time.
The only risk I see is that if the motor is regenerated (charged via the motor) and via a charger, the battery voltage may rise without "control", and even then... the charger will stop, and if the motor's speed controller is properly adjusted, regeneration will stop too!
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Re: Power in and out of battery bank
Just make sure you're not driving the motor's supply to too high a voltage.? Generally, you won't and often actually can't have this problem.? The only way you might get into trouble is if there's not a proper charge controller with over-voltage protection between the charging system and the motor _and_ you're charging the batteries up to 'full.'
Note: it's really the same problem if you don't have a good controller charging the batteries even _without_ the motor.? Charge applied to a 'full' battery can overcharge and damage the cells.? The charge controller/balancer makes sure your cells don't get overcharged.? That's one of it's jobs.
As an example: On MinnKota 12V trolling motors, the Max voltage allowed is 13.6V? This is actually lower than the 14+ volts some chargers will apply to fast charge a 12V battery.? This would be a problem.? IDK the max allowable for _your_ motor, but if you're charging with potentially more power than the motor can draw, you can end up significantly higher than the nominal 48V.? Just make sure your motor is cool with whatever might happen worst case...
On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 01:24:47 AM CDT, Thierry <thierry.lequeu@...> wrote:
Just to clarify: you can!
There's no problem charging the battery and using the motor at the same time.
The only risk I see is that if the motor is regenerated (charged via the motor) and via a charger, the battery voltage may rise without "control", and even then... the charger will stop, and if the motor's speed controller is properly adjusted, regeneration will stop too!
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Re: Power in and out of battery bank
I first wrote about doing this back in 2005 or so.? I converted my boat to electric in 2003 . In 2005 I hauled it out and repaired bottom damage, etc, got it prettied up, then got it out on the river.? Then I did a 90 mile round trip on the Columbia River to the Cathlamet Wooden Boat Show.? With just about 300ah at 36v onboard, there¡¯s no way I could make the trip on shore power alone.? And I didn¡¯t think I¡¯d be able to recharge at Cathlamet or anywhere else on the river.? So I brought some gasoline, a Honda EU2000i genset and 2 chargers.? Going downstream I realized that one of my chargers wasn¡¯t working, so I only had one running (generating just 20amps to the pack) going downstream. ?To make time, I was probably cruising at 40amps.? And so, the pack saw a net loss of 20amps.? By the time we reached the boat show the pack was down about 150ah---and I couldn¡¯t recharge at the docks. ?My wife brought me a spare charger and so, going back upstream I had 40amps of charge current.? If I was using just 40amps, the net current was zero and the pack voltage unchanging. ?But to make it upstream at any rate, I used about 55amps.? After several hours of this, we rolled into a marina for the night (again, no charging available and didn¡¯t want to annoy folks with my genset) at this point maybe 230amp-hours down.? The next morning, things were still not ideal (bad tides) and so initially was still using power despite the genset and chargers.? But things improved and so it eventually was clear I¡¯d make it back, barely---nearly 300ah used from the pack on the trip.? As I recall, the genset/chargers provided about 800ah on the trip. ? Anyway, bottom line is you need to know your pack¡¯s state, what your genset/chargers are capable of and what power levels you¡¯ll need for your trip.? Plan it out and give yourself extra time.? The slower you can run the boat and make progress, generally, the less energy it will take to go the distance.? It¡¯s more complicated with current flow---i.e. with a 2kt current you wouldn¡¯t want to slow your motor to the point that you go 2kts on the water.? Still, do the calcs, bring the fuel, bring spare parts as needed and hope that your genset/charger keeps running. ?Plan for contingencies for the case of those things failing---i.e. keeping enough pack energy to get to the next (or the last) harbor or perhaps having solar or wind power available---or cell phone and a wife who could bring parts J. I like to power in and out of marinas (or towns) on just electric.? Knowing it¡¯s 4 hours at 3knots vs 3 hours at 4knots, needing to get to the destination in 3 hours dictates the faster rate---at least for the main part of the trip. It¡¯s fun to watch the Amp gauge.? Start up the genset, plug in the chargers, watch 40amps going into the pack and seeing the bump in pack voltage is nice. ?Then heading out, current drops as you pick up speed until the current direction flips. ?If starting out, your pack is likely already full, so you either let the charger(s) respond to that or you¡¯d want to increase boat speed to draw more current until the net current goes to zero or negative. It¡¯s all pretty obvious really. ? Enjoy. ? -MT ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thierry
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 11:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Power in and out of battery bank ? Just to clarify: you can! There's no problem charging the battery and using the motor at the same time. The only risk I see is that if the motor is regenerated (charged via the motor) and via a charger, the battery voltage may rise without "control", and even then... the charger will stop, and if the motor's speed controller is properly adjusted, regeneration will stop too!
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Re: Power in and out of battery bank
Just to clarify: you can!
There's no problem charging the battery and using the motor at the same time.
The only risk I see is that if the motor is regenerated (charged via the motor) and via a charger, the battery voltage may rise without "control", and even then... the charger will stop, and if the motor's speed controller is properly adjusted, regeneration will stop too!
|
Re: Power in and out of battery bank
They are correct you can¡¯t! Not because it will damage the battery, it¡¯s just physically not possible. Energy is either flowing in or out.?
If the load is greater than the charging source, it will pull from the source(s) simultaneously. If the load is less than the charging source, it will power the load and charge the battery.? You are fine. Happy motoring.? Matt Foley
Sunlight Conversions? 1-201-914-0466
ABYC Certified Marine? Electrical Technician
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On Sep 27, 2023, at 4:50 PM, rholden@... wrote:
?Hi All
Very fundamental beginner's question here.
I currently have a 160amp hour 48-volt closed cell battery bank running a thunderstruck 10KW motor and all works well. ( Looking forward to lithium in the future).
QUESTION: If I am charging the battery using solar panels - or in some cases a generator - can I run the motor at the same time?
There a several claims on Google search that you cannot charge and discharge a battery bank at the same time.?
If you are running solar panels ( which I am about to install) - I can't imagine that you switch them off each time you want to run the motor.
Can someone please clarify if I can charge and discharge simultaneously, or will this damage the batteries or create other issues?
The expert help from this group is very much appreciated.
Richard
|
Power in and out of battery bank
Hi All
Very fundamental beginner's question here.
I currently have a 160amp hour 48-volt closed cell battery bank running a thunderstruck 10KW motor and all works well. ( Looking forward to lithium in the future).
QUESTION: If I am charging the battery using solar panels - or in some cases a generator - can I run the motor at the same time?
There a several claims on Google search that you cannot charge and discharge a battery bank at the same time.?
If you are running solar panels ( which I am about to install) - I can't imagine that you switch them off each time you want to run the motor.
Can someone please clarify if I can charge and discharge simultaneously, or will this damage the batteries or create other issues?
The expert help from this group is very much appreciated.
Richard
|
Re: Advice for electric conversion
Dave is correct, the transmission will no longer be needed.
I have a couple of small inverter generators I can run in parallel to get over 30 amps available and can then just plug in my 30-amp shore power seemlessly for hybrid power.? Seems to work well, though I have not used it much as I have not yet figured how to mount the generators on-board.
I used / for my full kit, including advice on sizing the motor.? They were great?
Get
I'd also suggest you skip reusing the transmission.? The motor driver/controller should handle forward and reverse, as well as variable speed so the tranny is just more weight you could replace with storage.
On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 10:48:36 AM CDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
I replaced a diesel/v-drive? in a similar sized boat (33', 12,500 lbs).? I used a 12kW motor and built a 280AH 48V LiFePo4 battery.? Lots of details here:
The 12kW motor replaces a 23hp diesel.? I did not re-use the v-drive, I made my own reduction drive with a 3:1 belt drive.? It fits well in the space that the v-drive occupied.?
The performance of the 12kW motor is at least as good as the diesel (which was a very good match to the boat) and is significantly better at slow speeds.? The only deficit the electric system has compared the diesel is range.? I have 25 to 30 miles range at 5.5 knots Vs 110 miles with the diesel.? For my daysailing use this is not a problem.?? A 5kW genset would be able to power the boat t 6 knots continuously.?
Dan Pfeiffer
On 2023-09-24 9:32 pm, Alex from Frolic wrote:
Hello everyone,?
Alex from SV Frolic here, with some technical questions as I¡¯m trying to build a system. My boat is a 1973 Columbia 30 (not the sport sailer with an open transom, but rather the raised deck one). I¡¯m wanting to do a 48v battery system totaling around 400Ah, and convert to electric. Herein lies the issue:
my boat was originally sold with a gas motor, a Palmer P-60, mated to a v-drive transmission.?
I haven¡¯t found much information as to the conversion process to electric for v-drives. And I¡¯ve heard many people say they are touchy, sensitive transmissions as well. I¡¯ve seen plenty of reduction gear setups for direct drives, even electric outboard builds, but nothing for a v-drive.?
That¡¯s issue number one.?
Furthermore, I¡¯m not sure what size motor to go for as I¡¯m replacing a 4.0L 60hp inline 4 gas motor with plenty of torque (well, probably back when it ran).?
the displacement of my boat is factory 6 tons but in practicality I¡¯m finding it¡¯s more like 7 tons, or about 14k lbs.?
I¡¯m new to EV¡¯s and mechanically handy, but I¡¯m fed up of this rusty old gas guzzling hunk of junk that always needs SOMETHING else. I¡¯m dying to get out of the marina and shipyard routine. I miss my sea time. Thanks for your help.?
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Re: Advice for electric conversion
I'd also suggest you skip reusing the transmission.? The motor driver/controller should handle forward and reverse, as well as variable speed so the tranny is just more weight you could replace with storage.
On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 10:48:36 AM CDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
I replaced a diesel/v-drive? in a similar sized boat (33', 12,500 lbs).? I used a 12kW motor and built a 280AH 48V LiFePo4 battery.? Lots of details here:
The 12kW motor replaces a 23hp diesel.? I did not re-use the v-drive, I made my own reduction drive with a 3:1 belt drive.? It fits well in the space that the v-drive occupied.?
The performance of the 12kW motor is at least as good as the diesel (which was a very good match to the boat) and is significantly better at slow speeds.? The only deficit the electric system has compared the diesel is range.? I have 25 to 30 miles range at 5.5 knots Vs 110 miles with the diesel.? For my daysailing use this is not a problem.?? A 5kW genset would be able to power the boat t 6 knots continuously.?
Dan Pfeiffer
On 2023-09-24 9:32 pm, Alex from Frolic wrote:
Hello everyone,?
Alex from SV Frolic here, with some technical questions as I¡¯m trying to build a system. My boat is a 1973 Columbia 30 (not the sport sailer with an open transom, but rather the raised deck one). I¡¯m wanting to do a 48v battery system totaling around 400Ah, and convert to electric. Herein lies the issue:
my boat was originally sold with a gas motor, a Palmer P-60, mated to a v-drive transmission.?
I haven¡¯t found much information as to the conversion process to electric for v-drives. And I¡¯ve heard many people say they are touchy, sensitive transmissions as well. I¡¯ve seen plenty of reduction gear setups for direct drives, even electric outboard builds, but nothing for a v-drive.?
That¡¯s issue number one.?
Furthermore, I¡¯m not sure what size motor to go for as I¡¯m replacing a 4.0L 60hp inline 4 gas motor with plenty of torque (well, probably back when it ran).?
the displacement of my boat is factory 6 tons but in practicality I¡¯m finding it¡¯s more like 7 tons, or about 14k lbs.?
I¡¯m new to EV¡¯s and mechanically handy, but I¡¯m fed up of this rusty old gas guzzling hunk of junk that always needs SOMETHING else. I¡¯m dying to get out of the marina and shipyard routine. I miss my sea time. Thanks for your help.?
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Re: Advice for electric conversion
I replaced a diesel/v-drive? in a similar sized boat (33', 12,500 lbs).? I used a 12kW motor and built a 280AH 48V LiFePo4 battery.? Lots of details here:
The 12kW motor replaces a 23hp diesel.? I did not re-use the v-drive, I made my own reduction drive with a 3:1 belt drive.? It fits well in the space that the v-drive occupied.?
The performance of the 12kW motor is at least as good as the diesel (which was a very good match to the boat) and is significantly better at slow speeds.? The only deficit the electric system has compared the diesel is range.? I have 25 to 30 miles range at 5.5 knots Vs 110 miles with the diesel.? For my daysailing use this is not a problem.?? A 5kW genset would be able to power the boat t 6 knots continuously.?
Dan Pfeiffer
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On 2023-09-24 9:32 pm, Alex from Frolic wrote:
Hello everyone,?
Alex from SV Frolic here, with some technical questions as I¡¯m trying to build a system. My boat is a 1973 Columbia 30 (not the sport sailer with an open transom, but rather the raised deck one). I¡¯m wanting to do a 48v battery system totaling around 400Ah, and convert to electric. Herein lies the issue:
my boat was originally sold with a gas motor, a Palmer P-60, mated to a v-drive transmission.?
I haven¡¯t found much information as to the conversion process to electric for v-drives. And I¡¯ve heard many people say they are touchy, sensitive transmissions as well. I¡¯ve seen plenty of reduction gear setups for direct drives, even electric outboard builds, but nothing for a v-drive.?
That¡¯s issue number one.?
Furthermore, I¡¯m not sure what size motor to go for as I¡¯m replacing a 4.0L 60hp inline 4 gas motor with plenty of torque (well, probably back when it ran).?
the displacement of my boat is factory 6 tons but in practicality I¡¯m finding it¡¯s more like 7 tons, or about 14k lbs.?
I¡¯m new to EV¡¯s and mechanically handy, but I¡¯m fed up of this rusty old gas guzzling hunk of junk that always needs SOMETHING else. I¡¯m dying to get out of the marina and shipyard routine. I miss my sea time. Thanks for your help.?
|
Advice for electric conversion
Hello everyone,?
Alex from SV Frolic here, with some technical questions as I¡¯m trying to build a system. My boat is a 1973 Columbia 30 (not the sport sailer with an open transom, but rather the raised deck one). I¡¯m wanting to do a 48v battery system totaling around 400Ah, and convert to electric. Herein lies the issue:
my boat was originally sold with a gas motor, a Palmer P-60, mated to a v-drive transmission.?
I haven¡¯t found much information as to the conversion process to electric for v-drives. And I¡¯ve heard many people say they are touchy, sensitive transmissions as well. I¡¯ve seen plenty of reduction gear setups for direct drives, even electric outboard builds, but nothing for a v-drive.?
That¡¯s issue number one.?
Furthermore, I¡¯m not sure what size motor to go for as I¡¯m replacing a 4.0L 60hp inline 4 gas motor with plenty of torque (well, probably back when it ran).?
the displacement of my boat is factory 6 tons but in practicality I¡¯m finding it¡¯s more like 7 tons, or about 14k lbs.?
I¡¯m new to EV¡¯s and mechanically handy, but I¡¯m fed up of this rusty old gas guzzling hunk of junk that always needs SOMETHING else. I¡¯m dying to get out of the marina and shipyard routine. I miss my sea time. Thanks for your help.?
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Re: Pearson P27 Diesel Pulled
Try the guys at electric yacht. Excellent customer support and decades of real knowledge. ? Wade
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Re: Pearson P27 Diesel Pulled
My experience is totally different than Thomas¡¯s. When I repowered, I had to first remove a pair of 75HP diesels and their sail drives. Then patched the sail drive holes in the bottom of the hulls. Next was installation of straight shafts and associated bits and pieces.?
the motor mounts from ThunderStruck-EV.com were a straightforward installation with care taken to line up with the shafts. The motors bolt to the mounts and self align with the shaft pulley.?
controls and instruments require wire runs to the bridge/cockpit. With Sevcon controllers I purchased the Sevcon ClearView screens. These give you RPM, FNR, Amps used, volts and battery charge.?
when you build your battery, you¡¯ll need a BMS. You can get them with a remote screen (mine is a Chargery) or a Bluetooth connection to your phone or tablet. The BMS can also disconnect the load bus if a cell gets close to a lower voltage limit.?
some BMSs can communicate with a shore charger - usually if the same brand (Chargery has a matching charger).?
Cells can be purchased direct from China - I can give you s reliable source should you desire. A 48v battery takes 16 cells. Mine are 1,000AH each but you can use a lot less.?
as a boy I played with electric trains building engines and cars from kits. If you are comfortable with electricity, there is no real difficulty in the wiring - leading the wires in my case was the hardest part.?
in your case you have the prop and shaft installed - plus exuding motor mounts/stringers. You may need to add to the stringers to match the motor mount - not a big deal. My entire conversion was done over a 3 month period.?
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Re: Pearson P27 Diesel Pulled
Proper grounding throughout, and the Cutless Bearing , Prop Shaft, Flex Coupling.
It is a fantastic experience once completed properly.
On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 12:58 PM, THOMAS VANDERMEULEN <tvinypsi@...> wrote: Duncan,
You're in a situation similar to one in which I found myself several years ago, and had the same thought as you: maybe it's time to go electric. ?I took the DIY route, as have a number of other posters to this discussion, and purchased a. number of components from Thunderstruck Motors out of Southern California. ?I'm still a believer in repowering with electric, but based on my own experience, I would caution you (and anyone else considering this modification path) to think long and hard about strategy and budget.
The fact that I'm still not in the water after 4-years of effort has much more to do with life changes and the fact that my boat needed more rehabilitative work than the repowering. ?But my guess is, that with an '89 Pearson, you'll likely also find many other things to do to the boat while it's out of the water.
And don't get me wrong. ?The folks at Thunderstruck have been very supportive, and their products seemed to work well enough on my development/test bench in the basement of my house. ?But there are two potentially problematic aspects of a DIY repowering that folks don't seem to talk much about: Instrumentation; and Physical installation.
There's a tendency for folks to focus on the motor, the controller, and the battery pack. ?But all of these things have to be securely installed in the boat somewhere, and then interconnected. ?How will battery monitoring information be communicated to you and the operator, who is likely sitting in the cockpit? ?Will there be any instrumentation within the cabin space? Is your instrumentation compliant with all the relevant regulations and guidelines such that a surveyor will give you a thumbs up? ?Will your batteries be permanently installed, or do you need to pull them out seasonally? ?Wiring, connectors, and routing of wiring -- instrumentation more so than the main propulsion power cables -- are all potentially challenging to an installation. ?On a boat the size of yours (and ours, which is also an older 27-footer) getting access to the physical spaces where elements are to be installed can be difficult even for flexible and fit people, but for aging (like me) or less fit persons, getting one's body into the positions necessary to do the installation and connections can be darned near impossible.
I don't know anything about your background, and it may be that none of the above will be difficult for you. ?But others will be reading this posting, and I'm just trying to share some of the things I've encountered along the way that I didn't know when I sent my first order to Thunderstruck.
Folks need to understand that the cost of a full installation goes way beyond the sailboat motor kit comprised of the motor, controller, and throttle control. ?Battery storage, charging, monitoring, and control comprise a subsystem in and of themselves. ?Instrumentation and related wiring comprise another subsystem. ?In terms of the physical installation, it's easy to overlook such questions as how am I going to get my batteries in and out of the boat, and secure them as required by regs? ?A full 200 Amp Hour pack of 48-volt LiFePO batteries will weigh over 200 lbs once assembled and take up a fair amount of space.
I'm in Michgan, so I felt it would be best to be able to take my LiFePO batteries off the boat for winter storage. ?I had to choose between building and rebuilding the full battery every season, or working out an approach that made that procedure simpler. ?I went with building four 12-volt packs. ?But that approach required custom-built boxes and building my own wiring harnesses to connect the battery cells to the battery management module. ?It also led to the additional question of how to keep all these elements reasonably water-tight while under way.
Another item that's only tangentially related to an electric repowering but something anyone who undertakes it should consider, is what about my stuffing box and cutless bearing, and the related issue of whether or not it's physically possible to get good alignment between the new power source and your existing prop shaft (distance and angle).
My latest speed bump is indicative of the type of thing that can happen, which even the best planning won't have allowed for. ?Everything worked fine on my test bed, but during installation on the boat, I inadvertently over-stressed a wire going to the connector plugged into the battery management module (BMSC) evidently distorting the contacts within the connector -- a simple 6-pin push on connector costing about $3. ?Between having initially misdiagnosed the problem as a failed BMSC, and the misdirection of the replacement connector by the USPS, it will end up being yet another 2-weeks of delay before actually getting my system operational within the boat and continuing all the subsequent installation steps. ?The critical path of any project plan can easily be altered by unforeseen factors and events!
So in summary, here's my advice: bite the bullet on the cost of a full, customized installation by a qualified company; or be prepared for technical and physical challenges you can't even imagine yet, not to mention the cost over-runs that result from the DIY learning curve.
Okay, I've gone on long enough, and there will be some on this discussion board who'll discount what I'm saying because they had an easy time of it.
|
Re: Pearson P27 Diesel Pulled
Very sound advice Thomas.?
On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 12:58 PM, THOMAS VANDERMEULEN <tvinypsi@...> wrote: Duncan,
You're in a situation similar to one in which I found myself several years ago, and had the same thought as you: maybe it's time to go electric. ?I took the DIY route, as have a number of other posters to this discussion, and purchased a. number of components from Thunderstruck Motors out of Southern California. ?I'm still a believer in repowering with electric, but based on my own experience, I would caution you (and anyone else considering this modification path) to think long and hard about strategy and budget.
The fact that I'm still not in the water after 4-years of effort has much more to do with life changes and the fact that my boat needed more rehabilitative work than the repowering. ?But my guess is, that with an '89 Pearson, you'll likely also find many other things to do to the boat while it's out of the water.
And don't get me wrong. ?The folks at Thunderstruck have been very supportive, and their products seemed to work well enough on my development/test bench in the basement of my house. ?But there are two potentially problematic aspects of a DIY repowering that folks don't seem to talk much about: Instrumentation; and Physical installation.
There's a tendency for folks to focus on the motor, the controller, and the battery pack. ?But all of these things have to be securely installed in the boat somewhere, and then interconnected. ?How will battery monitoring information be communicated to you and the operator, who is likely sitting in the cockpit? ?Will there be any instrumentation within the cabin space? Is your instrumentation compliant with all the relevant regulations and guidelines such that a surveyor will give you a thumbs up? ?Will your batteries be permanently installed, or do you need to pull them out seasonally? ?Wiring, connectors, and routing of wiring -- instrumentation more so than the main propulsion power cables -- are all potentially challenging to an installation. ?On a boat the size of yours (and ours, which is also an older 27-footer) getting access to the physical spaces where elements are to be installed can be difficult even for flexible and fit people, but for aging (like me) or less fit persons, getting one's body into the positions necessary to do the installation and connections can be darned near impossible.
I don't know anything about your background, and it may be that none of the above will be difficult for you. ?But others will be reading this posting, and I'm just trying to share some of the things I've encountered along the way that I didn't know when I sent my first order to Thunderstruck.
Folks need to understand that the cost of a full installation goes way beyond the sailboat motor kit comprised of the motor, controller, and throttle control. ?Battery storage, charging, monitoring, and control comprise a subsystem in and of themselves. ?Instrumentation and related wiring comprise another subsystem. ?In terms of the physical installation, it's easy to overlook such questions as how am I going to get my batteries in and out of the boat, and secure them as required by regs? ?A full 200 Amp Hour pack of 48-volt LiFePO batteries will weigh over 200 lbs once assembled and take up a fair amount of space.
I'm in Michgan, so I felt it would be best to be able to take my LiFePO batteries off the boat for winter storage. ?I had to choose between building and rebuilding the full battery every season, or working out an approach that made that procedure simpler. ?I went with building four 12-volt packs. ?But that approach required custom-built boxes and building my own wiring harnesses to connect the battery cells to the battery management module. ?It also led to the additional question of how to keep all these elements reasonably water-tight while under way.
Another item that's only tangentially related to an electric repowering but something anyone who undertakes it should consider, is what about my stuffing box and cutless bearing, and the related issue of whether or not it's physically possible to get good alignment between the new power source and your existing prop shaft (distance and angle).
My latest speed bump is indicative of the type of thing that can happen, which even the best planning won't have allowed for. ?Everything worked fine on my test bed, but during installation on the boat, I inadvertently over-stressed a wire going to the connector plugged into the battery management module (BMSC) evidently distorting the contacts within the connector -- a simple 6-pin push on connector costing about $3. ?Between having initially misdiagnosed the problem as a failed BMSC, and the misdirection of the replacement connector by the USPS, it will end up being yet another 2-weeks of delay before actually getting my system operational within the boat and continuing all the subsequent installation steps. ?The critical path of any project plan can easily be altered by unforeseen factors and events!
So in summary, here's my advice: bite the bullet on the cost of a full, customized installation by a qualified company; or be prepared for technical and physical challenges you can't even imagine yet, not to mention the cost over-runs that result from the DIY learning curve.
Okay, I've gone on long enough, and there will be some on this discussion board who'll discount what I'm saying because they had an easy time of it.
|
Re: Pearson P27 Diesel Pulled
Duncan,
You're in a situation similar to one in which I found myself several years ago, and had the same thought as you: maybe it's time to go electric. ?I took the DIY route, as have a number of other posters to this discussion, and purchased a. number of components from Thunderstruck Motors out of Southern California. ?I'm still a believer in repowering with electric, but based on my own experience, I would caution you (and anyone else considering this modification path) to think long and hard about strategy and budget.
The fact that I'm still not in the water after 4-years of effort has much more to do with life changes and the fact that my boat needed more rehabilitative work than the repowering. ?But my guess is, that with an '89 Pearson, you'll likely also find many other things to do to the boat while it's out of the water.
And don't get me wrong. ?The folks at Thunderstruck have been very supportive, and their products seemed to work well enough on my development/test bench in the basement of my house. ?But there are two potentially problematic aspects of a DIY repowering that folks don't seem to talk much about: Instrumentation; and Physical installation.
There's a tendency for folks to focus on the motor, the controller, and the battery pack. ?But all of these things have to be securely installed in the boat somewhere, and then interconnected. ?How will battery monitoring information be communicated to you and the operator, who is likely sitting in the cockpit? ?Will there be any instrumentation within the cabin space? Is your instrumentation compliant with all the relevant regulations and guidelines such that a surveyor will give you a thumbs up? ?Will your batteries be permanently installed, or do you need to pull them out seasonally? ?Wiring, connectors, and routing of wiring -- instrumentation more so than the main propulsion power cables -- are all potentially challenging to an installation. ?On a boat the size of yours (and ours, which is also an older 27-footer) getting access to the physical spaces where elements are to be installed can be difficult even for flexible and fit people, but for aging (like me) or less fit persons, getting one's body into the positions necessary to do the installation and connections can be darned near impossible.
I don't know anything about your background, and it may be that none of the above will be difficult for you. ?But others will be reading this posting, and I'm just trying to share some of the things I've encountered along the way that I didn't know when I sent my first order to Thunderstruck.
Folks need to understand that the cost of a full installation goes way beyond the sailboat motor kit comprised of the motor, controller, and throttle control. ?Battery storage, charging, monitoring, and control comprise a subsystem in and of themselves. ?Instrumentation and related wiring comprise another subsystem. ?In terms of the physical installation, it's easy to overlook such questions as how am I going to get my batteries in and out of the boat, and secure them as required by regs? ?A full 200 Amp Hour pack of 48-volt LiFePO batteries will weigh over 200 lbs once assembled and take up a fair amount of space.
I'm in Michgan, so I felt it would be best to be able to take my LiFePO batteries off the boat for winter storage. ?I had to choose between building and rebuilding the full battery every season, or working out an approach that made that procedure simpler. ?I went with building four 12-volt packs. ?But that approach required custom-built boxes and building my own wiring harnesses to connect the battery cells to the battery management module. ?It also led to the additional question of how to keep all these elements reasonably water-tight while under way.
Another item that's only tangentially related to an electric repowering but something anyone who undertakes it should consider, is what about my stuffing box and cutless bearing, and the related issue of whether or not it's physically possible to get good alignment between the new power source and your existing prop shaft (distance and angle).
My latest speed bump is indicative of the type of thing that can happen, which even the best planning won't have allowed for. ?Everything worked fine on my test bed, but during installation on the boat, I inadvertently over-stressed a wire going to the connector plugged into the battery management module (BMSC) evidently distorting the contacts within the connector -- a simple 6-pin push on connector costing about $3. ?Between having initially misdiagnosed the problem as a failed BMSC, and the misdirection of the replacement connector by the USPS, it will end up being yet another 2-weeks of delay before actually getting my system operational within the boat and continuing all the subsequent installation steps. ?The critical path of any project plan can easily be altered by unforeseen factors and events!
So in summary, here's my advice: bite the bullet on the cost of a full, customized installation by a qualified company; or be prepared for technical and physical challenges you can't even imagine yet, not to mention the cost over-runs that result from the DIY learning curve.
Okay, I've gone on long enough, and there will be some on this discussion board who'll discount what I'm saying because they had an easy time of it.
|
Ric Sanders
G¨¹nter W?ckener
Matthew Geier
Alex from Frolic
Reuben Trane
THOMAS VANDERMEULEN