Re: ePropulsion Pod Drive 6
I have the ePropulsion Navy 6.0 Evo (remote control, long shaft) on my five-meter power catamaran (Electra).??So not quite what you're asking about, but close.
I've had the motor for about a year and a half, but I trailer Electra, so she's only in the water an hour or so per week (on average).? Both fresh and salt water (Puget Sound).? I put
about 60 hours on it last year (over 400 miles).? No seal failures.
The lower unit has a decent coat of paint on it, although I repeatedly rubbed a trailer crossmember on one trip to the ramp (too far forward on the trailer) and lost some paint from
the front of the motor pod.
There are two places for zinc anodes: one right on the prop shaft and one on the trailing edge between the optional cavitation plate and the motor pod.? I only use the latter due to
not being in the water all the time.? No observable loss of anode material on mine.
Hopefully some of this helps.
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This is for the high-pitch prop. The low-pitch prop would use a slightly shorter cone (cut to fit), and probably a shorter screw (the screw bottoms out in the standoff, to avoid overcompressing the cone while still resisting loosening). I've run it a few times
and it stays on. Unfortunately, I can't say that I've noticed a performance ...
www.youtube.com
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Is there anyone with experience? with the ePropulsion Pod Drive 6? I'm seriously thinking of buying one but I've currently got two concerns;
1. What are the realistic chances of the seal failing and water entering the unit? Has anyone who owns one ever had this problem?
2. It's mostly aluminum, How well is it likely to survive in salt water?
I'm intending to put the pod on a Badger 34, which has a flat bottom, which makes the pod drive a very easy to install option.
Thanks to all who may respond.
Paul J. Thompson
Information Technology?Manager
Henry Brooks Co. (t/a Bathroom Direct)
M
64 21 275 5001(txt only please)?F?64
9 913 3113?
E?paul@...
PO Box 58031, Botany, New Zealand 2163
5 Smales Road, East Tamaki, Manukau City
? ?
The information in this email and any attachments is confidential.
This information may be subject to legal, professional, or other privilege.
It must not be disclosed to any person without our authority.
If you are not the intended recipient you are not authorised to and must
not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
Please return this message to the sender immediately and delete any
and all copies from your system.
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Is there anyone with experience? with the ePropulsion Pod Drive 6? I'm seriously thinking of buying one but I've currently got two concerns;
1. What are the realistic chances of the seal failing and water entering the unit? Has anyone who owns one ever had this problem? 2. It's mostly aluminum, How well is it likely to survive in salt water?
I'm intending to put the pod on a Badger 34, which has a flat bottom, which makes the pod drive a very easy to install option.
Thanks to all who may respond.
Paul J. Thompson
Information Technology?Manager
Henry Brooks Co. (t/a Bathroom Direct)
M 64 21 275 5001(txt only please)?F?64 9 913 3113?
E?paul@...
PO Box 58031, Botany, New Zealand 2163
5 Smales Road, East Tamaki, Manukau City
? ?
The information in this email and any attachments is confidential.
This information may be subject to legal, professional, or other privilege.
It must not be disclosed to any person without our authority.
If you are not the intended recipient you are not authorised to and must
not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
Please return this message to the sender immediately and delete any
and all copies from your system.
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Did you get a response to your question Rommy?? What conditions will you be experiencing with this boat as it makes a big difference??
I have a Trojan f25 that I converted into a houseboat it. Currently has 2440 watts of solar on the roof and 40 205 Amp hr 6 volt batteries it is currently wired 12 volt but have room to add 24 more batteries? to convert to 48. Original boat was rated at 5900 lbs loaded also have room on roof to upgrade to 6000 watts solar? what size motor would I need to push it at 5 knots? cruising and 10 knots max thanks Rommy?
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Re: Electric Sailboat for sale WA state
Hi Ryan
I would like to come up and see it. We will be in Vancouver in a month.? I am finishing up an electric re-power?here in Oxnard on a Mariner 31 Ketch.?
Heard good thing about the Thunderstruck. What brand?are the batteries?? my cell is 805-821-1151
Ciao Bruno
On Sun, Apr 9, 2023 at 2:51?PM Ryan Sweet < ryan@...> wrote: Considering offers for my 1970 (launched 77) Rawson 30 ketch, featuring a Thunderstruck 10kw motor, sec on gen4 controller, and 800ah battery bank (will push you all day at 4.0 kts).?
DIY conversion from diesel done in 2019 with great advice from this group.
Boat is currently moored in Bellingham, WA, great slip on the outer edge of the marina, sunset and sunrise views.
Thick fiberglass, dry boat. 800ah 12v house battery, inverter, 12v solar panels charging, lots of equipment including skin on frame dinghy and 12v trolling motor /battery. Composting head, gas stove, custom copper countertops, fridge stopped working, works as a cooler, probably fixable. Lots of equipment - everything you need for cruising, camping, tools for any work or repairing. Tiller steering, Autopilot, Wi-Fi, mast camera, nav tablet… Sleeps 4.? Could use some cosmetic attention. Sails are ok, somewhat worn.
Asking $25k, open to offers.
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Re: Splitting 48V System Into Two Boxes?
Matt is of course 100% correct on the fineness of the welding cable strands being more susceptible to corrosion.? Finer strands _do_ lower the inductance though, which might be an advantage depending on your controller but...
In any case I go with Diesel Locomotive Cable for anything exposed to elements.? It's tinned, has finer strands than the standard stuff, and is about as rugged as you'll find without going to something exotic.? You should at least tin the _connections_ if you aren't using tinned cable.? I know you said properly crimped, but tinning afterwards goes a long way to combat the corrosion.? It always starts on the ends.? Shrink wrap too afterwards regardless.
I'm sceptical about the other fellows recommendation regarding the bypass for cell balance though.? You mentioned having eight wires for each bank, which I assumed was two for each 12V cell for charging and two for sense.? 16 total.? Double check in the charger's docs but it would be unusual if the charging was through one pair but the balance was through the sense wires.? The charging will be through the bigger wires.
Best of luck!? :-)
On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 07:12:15 PM CDT, Matt Foley <matt@...> wrote:
Just an FYI. Welding cable is not advised on a boat.? Its not tinned and has very fine strands which will corrode quicker. Some of it is not resistant to diesel fuel. Diesel can literally melt the insulation away. I assume you will not have any diesel on your boat, but still.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 01:19:42 PM EDT, Myles Twete <matwete@...> wrote:
First of all, you can certainly split up a pack into multiple boxes---this has been done since the first EVs were produced back in the late 1800’s.? I have no comment about aluminum except to be sure that’s what you really want (vs, say, wood/glass/epoxy molded to the hull).? With my 700ah, nom. 42v pack on , I have my pack split into 4 subpacks, each of the same nom. 42v (31v to 49v Lithium Ion).? Same story with Dan Pence’s “Ginger” (one of the first noted E-boat conversions in recent decades and 3rd earliest or so at evalbum.com --- Dan uses the same battery modules as I use and has a row of batteries on the starboard and one on the port side. ?He has his mounted in a ply/glass/epoxy cavity originally built and sized for lead-acid batteries back in the late 1990’s---the cavities fit these ex-THINK EV Enerdel stacks well. ?He and I both use 4ga wire from each 35ah stack thru fuses to common points on each side.? Then larger gauge cable to connect the starboard and port packs. ? Details matter. ?You indicate your pack will be 280ah at 48v and that the cells themselves are 280ah. ?Given that, your splitting of the pack results in two 280ah 24v packs in series.? Size your cables based on how much current you ever expect to draw from the pack.? Let’s say max. 7.5kw, then we’re talking about 150amps max. ?So sure, a gauge of 1, 1/0 or 0 probably would be fine.? Make sure you have a fuse near each of your 2 half-packs. ? As for BMS connections, it’s not really as simple as presented by Dave.? Yes, the cell connection wires are “sense” wires but they typically are also “bypass” wires---that is, they need to pass the current that your BMS card attempts to bypass cells with.? And even 100ma of bypass current thru a tiny, long wire can cause millivolts of voltage drop which ruins the ability of the BMS to properly sense the voltage.? On an electric lift truck application I worked on, we found that 22 ga wires were inadvertently used instead of what we spec’d which was 20ga.? This difference caused cell balancing to be pretty ineffective.? Separate these functions (bypass and sense) and this problem goes away, however most of the BMS boards used until recently do not separate these.? Maybe yours does? ? Here details really matter. Cell balancing for our under 10kw boating applications should not require more than 1-2 amps of cell bypass current.? On my boat, I have 20 remote BMS cards.? Each has the capability of bypassing up to 12 series cell pairs at about 100ma of current from a 35ah pair of cells.? This results in about a 10mv/hour balance rate, which is plenty if your cells are not all out of whack and not daily charging and discharging the pack deeply for weeks at a time.? Here use-case is important. ? Your 250a Daly BMS makes me scratch my head---and the website for Daly doesn’t help me understand it any better.? Do you have better information on these?? Why on earth do they need to handle 250amps? ? Thanks. ? -MT (26’ The Reach Of Tide --- converted to electric in 2003) ?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of aasmith970@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2023 2:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [electricboats] Splitting 48V System Into Two Boxes? ? I have a question about the feasibility of splitting up my 280 amp hour 48 V system into two aluminum battery boxes, that I will be custom making making. I am constrained on the space in my Newport 28 sailboat and it would be much easier and balance the way much better if I split the bank..? I am concerned, or the question is will the leads being longer from one system to the next, and the BMS leads being different links affect the current/reading of the BMS?? The leads going between the two boxes would be made out of double00 welding cable with properly crimped terminals while the leads going between the individual cells in the boxes will be copper busbars.?
Should all the BMS leads be the exact same length or can eight of them be 2 to 3 times as long as the other eight the boxes will be about 30 inches apart?
280ah new cells from Docan
250 amp BMS Daly
Delta Q charger + 150 watts solar
7.5 KW system from Foshan Green Motor?
thanks for any and all comments.?
Aaron?
|
Re: Splitting 48V System Into Two Boxes?
Go ahead and use it if you wish however its incorrect and dangerous to say "there is nothing wrong with it". Before marine cable was available boat builders used it. They do not anymore. It will not get passed a surveyor and you may not be able to insure your boat.??
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 08:29:06 PM EDT, Paul J. Thompson <bathroomdirectit@...> wrote:
Nothing wrong with welding cable. I and many others have used it for many years without any issues.
Paul J. Thompson
Information Technology?Manager
Henry Brooks Co. (t/a Bathroom Direct)
M 64 21 275 5001(txt only please)?F?64 9 913 3113?
E?paul@...
PO Box 58031, Botany, New Zealand 2163
5 Smales Road, East Tamaki, Manukau City
? ?
The information in this email and any attachments is confidential.
This information may be subject to legal, professional, or other privilege.
It must not be disclosed to any person without our authority.
If you are not the intended recipient you are not authorised to and must
not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
Please return this message to the sender immediately and delete any
and all copies from your system.On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 12:12?PM Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote: Just an FYI. Welding cable is not advised on a boat.? Its not tinned and has very fine strands which will corrode quicker. Some of it is not resistant to diesel fuel. Diesel can literally melt the insulation away. I assume you will not have any diesel on your boat, but still.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 01:19:42 PM EDT, Myles Twete < matwete@...> wrote:
First of all, you can certainly split up a pack into multiple boxes---this has been done since the first EVs were produced back in the late 1800’s.? I have no comment about aluminum except to be sure that’s what you really want (vs, say, wood/glass/epoxy molded to the hull).? With my 700ah, nom. 42v pack on , I have my pack split into 4 subpacks, each of the same nom. 42v (31v to 49v Lithium Ion).? Same story with Dan Pence’s “Ginger” (one of the first noted E-boat conversions in recent decades and 3rd earliest or so at --- Dan uses the same battery modules as I use and has a row of batteries on the starboard and one on the port side.? He has his mounted in a ply/glass/epoxy cavity originally built and sized for lead-acid batteries back in the late 1990’s---the cavities fit these ex-THINK EV Enerdel stacks well.? He and I both use 4ga wire from each 35ah stack thru fuses to common points on each side.? Then larger gauge cable to connect the starboard and port packs. ? Details matter.? You indicate your pack will be 280ah at 48v and that the cells themselves are 280ah.? Given that, your splitting of the pack results in two 280ah 24v packs in series.? Size your cables based on how much current you ever expect to draw from the pack.? Let’s say max. 7.5kw, then we’re talking about 150amps max.? So sure, a gauge of 1, 1/0 or 0 probably would be fine.? Make sure you have a fuse near each of your 2 half-packs. ? As for BMS connections, it’s not really as simple as presented by Dave.? Yes, the cell connection wires are “sense” wires but they typically are also “bypass” wires---that is, they need to pass the current that your BMS card attempts to bypass cells with.? And even 100ma of bypass current thru a tiny, long wire can cause millivolts of voltage drop which ruins the ability of the BMS to properly sense the voltage.? On an electric lift truck application I worked on, we found that 22 ga wires were inadvertently used instead of what we spec’d which was 20ga.? This difference caused cell balancing to be pretty ineffective.? Separate these functions (bypass and sense) and this problem goes away, however most of the BMS boards used until recently do not separate these.? Maybe yours does? ? Here details really matter. Cell balancing for our under 10kw boating applications should not require more than 1-2 amps of cell bypass current.? On my boat, I have 20 remote BMS cards.? Each has the capability of bypassing up to 12 series cell pairs at about 100ma of current from a 35ah pair of cells.? This results in about a 10mv/hour balance rate, which is plenty if your cells are not all out of whack and not daily charging and discharging the pack deeply for weeks at a time.? Here use-case is important. ? Your 250a Daly BMS makes me scratch my head---and the website for Daly doesn’t help me understand it any better.? Do you have better information on these?? Why on earth do they need to handle 250amps? ? Thanks. ? -MT (26’ The Reach Of Tide --- converted to electric in 2003) ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of aasmith970@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2023 2:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [electricboats] Splitting 48V System Into Two Boxes? ? I have a question about the feasibility of splitting up my 280 amp hour 48 V system into two aluminum battery boxes, that I will be custom making making. I am constrained on the space in my Newport 28 sailboat and it would be much easier and balance the way much better if I split the bank..? I am concerned, or the question is will the leads being longer from one system to the next, and the BMS leads being different links affect the current/reading of the BMS?? The leads going between the two boxes would be made out of double00 welding cable with properly crimped terminals while the leads going between the individual cells in the boxes will be copper busbars.?
Should all the BMS leads be the exact same length or can eight of them be 2 to 3 times as long as the other eight the boxes will be about 30 inches apart?
280ah new cells from Docan
250 amp BMS Daly
Delta Q charger + 150 watts solar
7.5 KW system from Foshan Green Motor?
thanks for any and all comments.?
Aaron?
|
Re: Splitting 48V System Into Two Boxes?
Nothing wrong with welding cable. I and many others have used it for many years without any issues.
Paul J. Thompson
Information Technology?Manager
Henry Brooks Co. (t/a Bathroom Direct)
M 64 21 275 5001(txt only please)?F?64 9 913 3113?
E?paul@...
PO Box 58031, Botany, New Zealand 2163
5 Smales Road, East Tamaki, Manukau City
? ?
The information in this email and any attachments is confidential.
This information may be subject to legal, professional, or other privilege.
It must not be disclosed to any person without our authority.
If you are not the intended recipient you are not authorised to and must
not disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it.
Please return this message to the sender immediately and delete any
and all copies from your system.On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 12:12?PM Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote: Just an FYI. Welding cable is not advised on a boat.? Its not tinned and has very fine strands which will corrode quicker. Some of it is not resistant to diesel fuel. Diesel can literally melt the insulation away. I assume you will not have any diesel on your boat, but still.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 01:19:42 PM EDT, Myles Twete < matwete@...> wrote:
First of all, you can certainly split up a pack into multiple boxes---this has been done since the first EVs were produced back in the late 1800’s.? I have no comment about aluminum except to be sure that’s what you really want (vs, say, wood/glass/epoxy molded to the hull).? With my 700ah, nom. 42v pack on , I have my pack split into 4 subpacks, each of the same nom. 42v (31v to 49v Lithium Ion).? Same story with Dan Pence’s “Ginger” (one of the first noted E-boat conversions in recent decades and 3rd earliest or so at --- Dan uses the same battery modules as I use and has a row of batteries on the starboard and one on the port side.? He has his mounted in a ply/glass/epoxy cavity originally built and sized for lead-acid batteries back in the late 1990’s---the cavities fit these ex-THINK EV Enerdel stacks well.? He and I both use 4ga wire from each 35ah stack thru fuses to common points on each side.? Then larger gauge cable to connect the starboard and port packs. ? Details matter.? You indicate your pack will be 280ah at 48v and that the cells themselves are 280ah.? Given that, your splitting of the pack results in two 280ah 24v packs in series.? Size your cables based on how much current you ever expect to draw from the pack.? Let’s say max. 7.5kw, then we’re talking about 150amps max.? So sure, a gauge of 1, 1/0 or 0 probably would be fine.? Make sure you have a fuse near each of your 2 half-packs. ? As for BMS connections, it’s not really as simple as presented by Dave.? Yes, the cell connection wires are “sense” wires but they typically are also “bypass” wires---that is, they need to pass the current that your BMS card attempts to bypass cells with.? And even 100ma of bypass current thru a tiny, long wire can cause millivolts of voltage drop which ruins the ability of the BMS to properly sense the voltage.? On an electric lift truck application I worked on, we found that 22 ga wires were inadvertently used instead of what we spec’d which was 20ga.? This difference caused cell balancing to be pretty ineffective.? Separate these functions (bypass and sense) and this problem goes away, however most of the BMS boards used until recently do not separate these.? Maybe yours does? ? Here details really matter. Cell balancing for our under 10kw boating applications should not require more than 1-2 amps of cell bypass current.? On my boat, I have 20 remote BMS cards.? Each has the capability of bypassing up to 12 series cell pairs at about 100ma of current from a 35ah pair of cells.? This results in about a 10mv/hour balance rate, which is plenty if your cells are not all out of whack and not daily charging and discharging the pack deeply for weeks at a time.? Here use-case is important. ? Your 250a Daly BMS makes me scratch my head---and the website for Daly doesn’t help me understand it any better.? Do you have better information on these?? Why on earth do they need to handle 250amps? ? Thanks. ? -MT (26’ The Reach Of Tide --- converted to electric in 2003) ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of aasmith970@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2023 2:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [electricboats] Splitting 48V System Into Two Boxes? ? I have a question about the feasibility of splitting up my 280 amp hour 48 V system into two aluminum battery boxes, that I will be custom making making. I am constrained on the space in my Newport 28 sailboat and it would be much easier and balance the way much better if I split the bank..? I am concerned, or the question is will the leads being longer from one system to the next, and the BMS leads being different links affect the current/reading of the BMS?? The leads going between the two boxes would be made out of double00 welding cable with properly crimped terminals while the leads going between the individual cells in the boxes will be copper busbars.?
Should all the BMS leads be the exact same length or can eight of them be 2 to 3 times as long as the other eight the boxes will be about 30 inches apart?
280ah new cells from Docan
250 amp BMS Daly
Delta Q charger + 150 watts solar
7.5 KW system from Foshan Green Motor?
thanks for any and all comments.?
Aaron?
|
Re: Splitting 48V System Into Two Boxes?
Just an FYI. Welding cable is not advised on a boat.? Its not tinned and has very fine strands which will corrode quicker. Some of it is not resistant to diesel fuel. Diesel can literally melt the insulation away. I assume you will not have any diesel on your boat, but still.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 01:19:42 PM EDT, Myles Twete <matwete@...> wrote:
First of all, you can certainly split up a pack into multiple boxes---this has been done since the first EVs were produced back in the late 1800’s.? I have no comment about aluminum except to be sure that’s what you really want (vs, say, wood/glass/epoxy molded to the hull).? With my 700ah, nom. 42v pack on , I have my pack split into 4 subpacks, each of the same nom. 42v (31v to 49v Lithium Ion).? Same story with Dan Pence’s “Ginger” (one of the first noted E-boat conversions in recent decades and 3rd earliest or so at evalbum.com --- Dan uses the same battery modules as I use and has a row of batteries on the starboard and one on the port side. ?He has his mounted in a ply/glass/epoxy cavity originally built and sized for lead-acid batteries back in the late 1990’s---the cavities fit these ex-THINK EV Enerdel stacks well. ?He and I both use 4ga wire from each 35ah stack thru fuses to common points on each side.? Then larger gauge cable to connect the starboard and port packs. ? Details matter. ?You indicate your pack will be 280ah at 48v and that the cells themselves are 280ah. ?Given that, your splitting of the pack results in two 280ah 24v packs in series.? Size your cables based on how much current you ever expect to draw from the pack.? Let’s say max. 7.5kw, then we’re talking about 150amps max. ?So sure, a gauge of 1, 1/0 or 0 probably would be fine.? Make sure you have a fuse near each of your 2 half-packs. ? As for BMS connections, it’s not really as simple as presented by Dave.? Yes, the cell connection wires are “sense” wires but they typically are also “bypass” wires---that is, they need to pass the current that your BMS card attempts to bypass cells with.? And even 100ma of bypass current thru a tiny, long wire can cause millivolts of voltage drop which ruins the ability of the BMS to properly sense the voltage.? On an electric lift truck application I worked on, we found that 22 ga wires were inadvertently used instead of what we spec’d which was 20ga.? This difference caused cell balancing to be pretty ineffective.? Separate these functions (bypass and sense) and this problem goes away, however most of the BMS boards used until recently do not separate these.? Maybe yours does? ? Here details really matter. Cell balancing for our under 10kw boating applications should not require more than 1-2 amps of cell bypass current.? On my boat, I have 20 remote BMS cards.? Each has the capability of bypassing up to 12 series cell pairs at about 100ma of current from a 35ah pair of cells.? This results in about a 10mv/hour balance rate, which is plenty if your cells are not all out of whack and not daily charging and discharging the pack deeply for weeks at a time.? Here use-case is important. ? Your 250a Daly BMS makes me scratch my head---and the website for Daly doesn’t help me understand it any better.? Do you have better information on these?? Why on earth do they need to handle 250amps? ? Thanks. ? -MT (26’ The Reach Of Tide --- converted to electric in 2003) ?
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of aasmith970@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2023 2:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [electricboats] Splitting 48V System Into Two Boxes? ? I have a question about the feasibility of splitting up my 280 amp hour 48 V system into two aluminum battery boxes, that I will be custom making making. I am constrained on the space in my Newport 28 sailboat and it would be much easier and balance the way much better if I split the bank..? I am concerned, or the question is will the leads being longer from one system to the next, and the BMS leads being different links affect the current/reading of the BMS?? The leads going between the two boxes would be made out of double00 welding cable with properly crimped terminals while the leads going between the individual cells in the boxes will be copper busbars.?
Should all the BMS leads be the exact same length or can eight of them be 2 to 3 times as long as the other eight the boxes will be about 30 inches apart?
280ah new cells from Docan
250 amp BMS Daly
Delta Q charger + 150 watts solar
7.5 KW system from Foshan Green Motor?
thanks for any and all comments.?
Aaron?
|
Re: Splitting 48V System Into Two Boxes?
First of all, you can certainly split up a pack into multiple boxes---this has been done since the first EVs were produced back in the late 1800’s.? I have no comment about aluminum except to be sure that’s what you really want (vs, say, wood/glass/epoxy molded to the hull).? With my 700ah, nom. 42v pack on , I have my pack split into 4 subpacks, each of the same nom. 42v (31v to 49v Lithium Ion).? Same story with Dan Pence’s “Ginger” (one of the first noted E-boat conversions in recent decades and 3rd earliest or so at evalbum.com --- Dan uses the same battery modules as I use and has a row of batteries on the starboard and one on the port side. ?He has his mounted in a ply/glass/epoxy cavity originally built and sized for lead-acid batteries back in the late 1990’s---the cavities fit these ex-THINK EV Enerdel stacks well. ?He and I both use 4ga wire from each 35ah stack thru fuses to common points on each side.? Then larger gauge cable to connect the starboard and port packs. ? Details matter. ?You indicate your pack will be 280ah at 48v and that the cells themselves are 280ah. ?Given that, your splitting of the pack results in two 280ah 24v packs in series.? Size your cables based on how much current you ever expect to draw from the pack.? Let’s say max. 7.5kw, then we’re talking about 150amps max. ?So sure, a gauge of 1, 1/0 or 0 probably would be fine.? Make sure you have a fuse near each of your 2 half-packs. ? As for BMS connections, it’s not really as simple as presented by Dave.? Yes, the cell connection wires are “sense” wires but they typically are also “bypass” wires---that is, they need to pass the current that your BMS card attempts to bypass cells with.? And even 100ma of bypass current thru a tiny, long wire can cause millivolts of voltage drop which ruins the ability of the BMS to properly sense the voltage.? On an electric lift truck application I worked on, we found that 22 ga wires were inadvertently used instead of what we spec’d which was 20ga.? This difference caused cell balancing to be pretty ineffective.? Separate these functions (bypass and sense) and this problem goes away, however most of the BMS boards used until recently do not separate these.? Maybe yours does? ? Here details really matter. Cell balancing for our under 10kw boating applications should not require more than 1-2 amps of cell bypass current.? On my boat, I have 20 remote BMS cards.? Each has the capability of bypassing up to 12 series cell pairs at about 100ma of current from a 35ah pair of cells.? This results in about a 10mv/hour balance rate, which is plenty if your cells are not all out of whack and not daily charging and discharging the pack deeply for weeks at a time.? Here use-case is important. ? Your 250a Daly BMS makes me scratch my head---and the website for Daly doesn’t help me understand it any better.? Do you have better information on these?? Why on earth do they need to handle 250amps? ? Thanks. ? -MT (26’ The Reach Of Tide --- converted to electric in 2003) ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of aasmith970@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2023 2:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [electricboats] Splitting 48V System Into Two Boxes? ? I have a question about the feasibility of splitting up my 280 amp hour 48 V system into two aluminum battery boxes, that I will be custom making making. I am constrained on the space in my Newport 28 sailboat and it would be much easier and balance the way much better if I split the bank..? I am concerned, or the question is will the leads being longer from one system to the next, and the BMS leads being different links affect the current/reading of the BMS?? The leads going between the two boxes would be made out of double00 welding cable with properly crimped terminals while the leads going between the individual cells in the boxes will be copper busbars.?
Should all the BMS leads be the exact same length or can eight of them be 2 to 3 times as long as the other eight the boxes will be about 30 inches apart?
280ah new cells from Docan
250 amp BMS Daly
Delta Q charger + 150 watts solar
7.5 KW system from Foshan Green Motor?
thanks for any and all comments.?
Aaron?
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Re: Splitting 48V System Into Two Boxes?
The leads you should really worry about being long are the high current wires.? If they're just sense wires, then they draw minimal current so don't worry about that length so much...within reason naturally. Noise pickup could theoretically be an issue at extremely long lengths.? That's why shielding is good for those.? Matching is generally no big deal except for the individual pairs.? Those pairs should be matched...and _twisted_ pairs.
However, the charging leads _do_ qualify as high current if you're charging at 250A, so there's that.? Even still, you really want them _shorter_ rather than matched.
Also, the LOOP AREA of the high current wires are a BIG DEAL.? Plus and minus should be next to each other and (ideally) also twisted for best results.? Twisting lengthens them slightly but you'll be generating a magnetic field relative to the amount of current.? The bigger the loop area the bigger the radiated field.? Twisting radiates it in such a way as to cancel with each successive twist.? Your compass probably will like that better.
Fair winds and following seas!
Dave
On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 04:54:20 AM CDT, aasmith970@... <aasmith970@...> wrote:
I have a question about the feasibility of splitting up my 280 amp hour 48 V system into two aluminum battery boxes, that I will be custom making making. I am constrained on the space in my Newport 28 sailboat and it would be much easier and balance the way much better if I split the bank..?
I am concerned, or the question is will the leads being longer from one system to the next, and the BMS leads being different links affect the current/reading of the BMS?? The leads going between the two boxes would be made out of double00 welding cable with properly crimped terminals while the leads going between the individual cells in the boxes will be copper busbars.?
Should all the BMS leads be the exact same length or can eight of them be 2 to 3 times as long as the other eight the boxes will be about 30 inches apart?
280ah new cells from Docan
250 amp BMS Daly
Delta Q charger + 150 watts solar
7.5 KW system from Foshan Green Motor?
thanks for any and all comments.?
Aaron?
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Splitting 48V System Into Two Boxes?
I have a question about the feasibility of splitting up my 280 amp hour 48 V system into two aluminum battery boxes, that I will be custom making making. I am constrained on the space in my Newport 28 sailboat and it would be much easier and balance the way much better if I split the bank..?
I am concerned, or the question is will the leads being longer from one system to the next, and the BMS leads being different links affect the current/reading of the BMS?? The leads going between the two boxes would be made out of double00 welding cable with properly crimped terminals while the leads going between the individual cells in the boxes will be copper busbars.?
Should all the BMS leads be the exact same length or can eight of them be 2 to 3 times as long as the other eight the boxes will be about 30 inches apart?
280ah new cells from Docan
250 amp BMS Daly
Delta Q charger + 150 watts solar
7.5 KW system from Foshan Green Motor?
thanks for any and all comments.?
Aaron?
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UPDATE.
I finally removed the Kiwiprop and replaced it with a 14x16 3 blade prop. I now have zero vibration and it performs very well.
I found that the Kiwiprop got gunked up with growth quite quickly which prevented it from working well. If you use your boat often, like every week I think the kiwi is a good option but it seems like if you leave the boat for a month at a time it just stops working from all the growth.
If anyone wants to give the Kiwi a go I'll part with it for 300 bucks plus shipping. It is a good propeller, but I think you need to spin it often to keep it working well.
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Electric Sailboat for sale WA state
Considering offers for my 1970 (launched 77) Rawson 30 ketch, featuring a Thunderstruck 10kw motor, sec on gen4 controller, and 800ah battery bank (will push you all day at 4.0 kts).
DIY conversion from diesel done in 2019 with great advice from this group.
Boat is currently moored in Bellingham, WA, great slip on the outer edge of the marina, sunset and sunrise views.
Thick fiberglass, dry boat. 800ah 12v house battery, inverter, 12v solar panels charging, lots of equipment including skin on frame dinghy and 12v trolling motor /battery. Composting head, gas stove, custom copper countertops, fridge stopped working, works as a cooler, probably fixable. Lots of equipment - everything you need for cruising, camping, tools for any work or repairing. Tiller steering, Autopilot, Wi-Fi, mast camera, nav tablet… Sleeps 4. Could use some cosmetic attention. Sails are ok, somewhat worn.
Asking $25k, open to offers.
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Brand new power wall style lifepo4 batteries - at cost
I’m cleaning up after a project was cancelled by a client - I’ve got five meritsun 51.2v 200ah lifepo4 powerwall style batteries, and two very similar units from GSL, all new in the box with cables and mounting hardware. 100a C rate, easily paralleled, CAN bus comms. Work great for propulsion batteries as long as you can mount them (any orientation) somewhere dry. Weigh 200lbs each.
In the Seattle area but also willing to ship.
Letting these go at cost. Email for more info. These are great batteries and I’ve put lots of them into commercial agriculture installations.
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Re: Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.
+1 to this - I just wasn’t going to plug it because I’m a lithium battery dealer ;-)
If you can start with a smallish lithium bank you will save on hassle, frustration, and accessories.?
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On Mar 23, 2023, at 10:45 AM, twowheelinguy via groups.io <twowheelinguy@...> wrote:
I would concur about skipping the AGM batteries unless you already have them and even then I would consider switching straight to lithium. Take it from someone who ran lead acid for 10 years and over 5000 miles, lead pails in comparison to lithium and it has gotten so cheap now it is almost on par with lead. Amazon sells 100amp hour, 12v batteries with bms and a charger for less than $300 that can be series to 48V and the ones I bought seem to work great. If freezing is an issue make sure you spec one with freeze protection and consider getting 8 of them to make a parallel bank of two four packs because the bms limits you to 100 amp output.?
If you want to step up to a little higher quality, Signature Solar has a very nice 100amp, 48V, waterproof series with a whopping 5 kWhrs of usable energy for about $1600 each but again I'd consider getting two in parallel because of the 100amp limitation. I've got both systems on the Arc and performance wise I can't tell the difference but I'm guessing the cheap batteries won't last as long. Time will tell but I'm telling you, don't waste your money on AGMs because unless you need cold cranking amps for a big ICE, lead is dead, imo.?
Capt. Carter www.shipofimagination.com ?
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 09:53:52 AM EDT, julienweiller via groups.io <julienweiller@...> wrote:
Greetings!? Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) . I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24”6“ waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30). ? Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah ?AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)?
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailing ? Will also add solar to the equation.?
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.?
So, that’s a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar??
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it’s 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions ?I am sticking with 48, 52 max. ?
All best and in advance, much thanks!
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Re: Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.
I would concur about skipping the AGM batteries unless you already have them and even then I would consider switching straight to lithium. Take it from someone who ran lead acid for 10 years and over 5000 miles, lead pails in comparison to lithium and it has gotten so cheap now it is almost on par with lead. Amazon sells 100amp hour, 12v batteries with bms and a charger for less than $300 that can be series to 48V and the ones I bought seem to work great. If freezing is an issue make sure you spec one with freeze protection and consider getting 8 of them to make a parallel bank of two four packs because the bms limits you to 100 amp output.?
If you want to step up to a little higher quality, Signature Solar has a very nice 100amp, 48V, waterproof series with a whopping 5 kWhrs of usable energy for about $1600 each but again I'd consider getting two in parallel because of the 100amp limitation. I've got both systems on the Arc and performance wise I can't tell the difference but I'm guessing the cheap batteries won't last as long. Time will tell but I'm telling you, don't waste your money on AGMs because unless you need cold cranking amps for a big ICE, lead is dead, imo.?
Capt. Carter www.shipofimagination.com ?
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 09:53:52 AM EDT, julienweiller via groups.io <julienweiller@...> wrote:
Greetings!?
Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) .
I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24”6“ waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30). ?
Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah ?AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)?
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailing ?
Will also add solar to the equation.?
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.?
So, that’s a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar??
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it’s 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions ?I am sticking with 48, 52 max.
?
All best and in advance, much thanks!
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Re: Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.
I’ll second Dan - I love my 10kw in a similar size and weight and occasionally wish it had just a little more oomph, especially in strong tidal curents against the wind. It’s enough to be safe, but requires more vigilance than if it just WENT.?
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On Mar 23, 2023, at 9:03 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
I'll second the suggestion for the Thunderstruck 12kW kit.? I used that in my Pearson 10M (12,400 lbs) with great success.? With the 10kW motor I would be running at 70-8% for standard cruise.?? It's more like 50-60% with the 12kW.? It's not using less power but it is at a more moderate load for the components in the system.? Also I have more reserve power for the occasional needs (like a choppy entrance).? The 12kW is liquid cooled with adds some complexity but I think it's the only way to get reasonable sustained cruising speed in a boat this size or larger.? If you're content with being constrained to 3-4 knots then the 10kW might do.? But you'll be pushing it hard to get more speed if needed.?
If you already have the AGM batteries then by all means use them.? If not don't waste your money.? Go straight to LiFePo4.? Over the lifetime of the batteries they will be cheaper.? And your usable capacity (and range) will be almost double for the same size AH bank.??? I built my own 48v from 16 cells in series.? There are a lot more off-the-shelf options around now.? But the cost savings would still lead me to build.?? See details on my battery here:
Lots of details on my installation here including component choices, reduction drive, cooling system, costs, performance...
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info: I like to think of the electric drive system in terms of limits.? You run into limits everywhere in the process.? Understanding them will guide you in the selection of components.? I have tried to organize my thoughts on limits here: Good luck, we're all counting on you... Dan Pfeiffer On 2023-03-22 6:24 pm, julienweiller via groups.io wrote:
Greetings!? Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) . I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24”6“ waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30). ? Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah ?AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)?
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailing ? Will also add solar to the equation.?
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.?
So, that’s a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar??
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it’s 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions ?I am sticking with 48, 52 max.
All best and in advance, much thanks!
|
Re: Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.
I'll second the suggestion for the Thunderstruck 12kW kit.? I used that in my Pearson 10M (12,400 lbs) with great success.? With the 10kW motor I would be running at 70-8% for standard cruise.?? It's more like 50-60% with the 12kW.? It's not using less power but it is at a more moderate load for the components in the system.? Also I have more reserve power for the occasional needs (like a choppy entrance).? The 12kW is liquid cooled with adds some complexity but I think it's the only way to get reasonable sustained cruising speed in a boat this size or larger.? If you're content with being constrained to 3-4 knots then the 10kW might do.? But you'll be pushing it hard to get more speed if needed.?
If you already have the AGM batteries then by all means use them.? If not don't waste your money.? Go straight to LiFePo4.? Over the lifetime of the batteries they will be cheaper.? And your usable capacity (and range) will be almost double for the same size AH bank.??? I built my own 48v from 16 cells in series.? There are a lot more off-the-shelf options around now.? But the cost savings would still lead me to build.?? See details on my battery here:
Lots of details on my installation here including component choices, reduction drive, cooling system, costs, performance...
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info: I like to think of the electric drive system in terms of limits.? You run into limits everywhere in the process.? Understanding them will guide you in the selection of components.? I have tried to organize my thoughts on limits here: Good luck, we're all counting on you... Dan Pfeiffer
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2023-03-22 6:24 pm, julienweiller via groups.io wrote:
Greetings!?
Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) .
I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24”6“ waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30). ?
Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah ?AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)?
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailing ?
Will also add solar to the equation.?
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.?
So, that’s a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar??
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it’s 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions ?I am sticking with 48, 52 max.
All best and in advance, much thanks!
|
Re: Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.
I went with the Thunderstruck 10Kw kit in my Kirby 30, it's working great.? The boat's lighter than yours (~6,000 lbs) so you'd probably want to go with their 12KW kit, the only issue is that it's liquid cooled.
I'm using 3 Dakota Lithium 48V/96 Ah batteries with Victron MPPT controllers and 6 110W panels on my deck when I'm not using the boat.? I race the boat 1-2 nights/week and daysail one day on the weekend, I found that I only needed to charge the batteries once per month.
I went with LIFEPO4 since I use my boat mostly for racing and was not into taking the weight penalty.? When we brought the boat from Bowmanville to Toronto in light winds last year we used about 70% of the battery capacity (motoring at 4-5 knots for 9 hours in flat water).? Unless you're doing a ton of long distance cruising, I'd hold off on the diesel generator.
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Recommendation for 48 v inboard motor + generator.
Greetings!?
Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) .
I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24”6“ waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30). ?
Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah ?AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)?
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailing ?
Will also add solar to the equation.?
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.?
So, that’s a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar??
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it’s 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions ?I am sticking with 48, 52 max.
?
All best and in advance, much thanks!
|
bobkart