Re: Motor Mount and Thrust Plate design - hoping for feedback
Yup.? A lot of design elements get constrained by the space you have to fit it in.? I ripped out the old engine beds and started from scratch.? That made sense for my installation.? But my boat is about 1/4 the displacement of yours.?? And mine is heavy for 33'.
Even if you add only a small 90 to the thrust plate it will make a big difference in stiffness.? That increases with cube of beam height.? So if you double the beam height you increase stiffness by 8x.?? So even adding a 1/2" flange on the 1/4 plate will increase the stiffness by 8x.? Or the if the plate was 1/2 thick it would be 8x stiffer than the 1/4.? Maybe that's a simple way to do it.?
Dan Pfeiffer
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On 2021-12-29 12:26 pm, Steven Borg wrote:
Dan, that's an excellent drawing!? And I get your point strongly. I'm totally in luck that the center of the propeller shaft, at its angle hits nearly exactly at the top of the bed. Unfortunately, the beds are laid in at a 2 degree angle and the propeller shaft is at a 10 degree angle, so the thrust forces are pushing 8 degrees 'upward' on the ways. That's not too much pressure, but it makes me happy the thrust is directly balanced on the bed. I'd love to do an additional bend (parallel) on the thrust plate. I decided against it for two reasons. First, it can only run a small distance, since I had to cut the part that goes below the ways into a half circle to fit, and second because that piece is relatively cheap so I can replace easily with a more substantial one if actual use demands it. I didn't put bends at the ends (perpendicular) because I felt the bolts would provide sufficient resistance to bending in that direction.? But I could certainly be wrong about that!?? The boat is fiberglass (balsa wood core), with a fiberglass deck and cockpit. It's stood up well these past 30 years, but it's due for another round of paint, especially some anti-fouling bottom paint... ;-) :-) Steve
_._,_._,_
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Re: Motor Mount and Thrust Plate design - hoping for feedback
Dan, that's an excellent drawing!? And I get your point strongly. I'm totally in luck that the center of the propeller shaft, at its angle hits nearly exactly at the top of the bed. Unfortunately, the beds are laid in at a 2 degree angle and the propeller shaft is at a 10 degree angle, so the thrust forces are pushing 8 degrees 'upward' on the ways. That's not too much pressure, but it makes me happy the thrust is directly balanced on the bed.
I'd love to do an additional bend (parallel) on the thrust plate. I decided against it for two reasons. First, it can only run a small distance, since I had to cut the part that goes below the ways into a half circle to fit, and second because that piece is relatively cheap so I can replace easily with a more substantial one if actual use demands it. I didn't put bends at the ends (perpendicular) because I felt the bolts would provide sufficient resistance to bending in that direction.? But I could certainly be wrong about that!??
The boat is fiberglass (balsa wood core), with a fiberglass deck and cockpit. It's stood up well these past 30 years, but it's due for another round of paint, especially some anti-fouling bottom paint... ;-)
:-)
Steve
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Re: Motor Mount and Thrust Plate design - hoping for feedback
I was thinking you needed that 90.? I might move those spacer blocks between the motor plate and the thrust plate more inboard.? As much as possible while still leaving room for the hub/bearing.? And if you put a 90 on one edge of the thrust plate I would put it on both so it doesn't want to twist.? Point is to stiffen the thrust plate and do it uniformly.? Maybe make it from some c-chancel?
Also, I think ideally your mounting to the beds is in the same plane as the axis of the prop shaft or as close as you can manage. ? Otherwise you create a moment where the thrust of the drive is trying to bend the whole assembly rather than pushing in line with the mounts.? I made a sketch that explains that better.
All that may be easy or difficult depending on the geometry and available space for the everything.?
What is the boat made from?? Fiberglass?? Steel??
Dan Pfeiffer
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On 2021-12-29 10:22 am, Steven Borg wrote:
Carsten, thank you!? I'm planning on having the plate itself be 1/2" stainless steel - very heavy and sturdy. And all of the supporting items 1/4" stainless steel. What's not shown is that the 'thrust plate' will also have a 90 bend at the bottom to provide additional support to handle the thrust forces. :-) Steve
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Re: Motor Mount and Thrust Plate design - hoping for feedback
Carsten, thank you!? I'm planning on having the plate itself be 1/2" stainless steel - very heavy and sturdy. And all of the supporting items 1/4" stainless steel. What's not shown is that the 'thrust plate' will also have a 90 bend at the bottom to provide additional support to handle the thrust forces.
:-)
Steve
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Re: Motor Mount and Thrust Plate design - hoping for feedback
You're a genius, Steven.
If you're angling it as a direct shaft drive, just keep the base plate VERY thick. I'm thinking of a half inch plate steel plate here.
Just a simple engineer's mind.
Keep in touch.
Carasten
On Tuesday, 28 December 2021, 19:11:35 CET, Steven Borg <steve@...> wrote:
Next step is to get the pieces together to mount the motor.? I've sketched up several items.? I'm pasting below, but the screenshots are also available here:?
?
Here's what the final assembly will (sort of) look like, from the side (right is aft). Everything is angled down 8% to accommodate slope of propeller shaft. There are no bolts shown, as that felt like just extra work, and the connection to ways isn't the actual, just something I sketched up quickly. It will actually be more triangular to provide additional support -- what I'm showing here is just to give an idea of how everything connects.
One thing to note is that the thrust plate is fore of the belt, which is different than the Thunderstruck solution. This allows me to switch around the motor mounting direction.
Same look, from the side, facing aft:
Same parts, looking fore:
And here are a few views without the ways and connections to the ways:
?
?
Here are the individual parts (realize that pre-manufactured ones I've just sketched up, so they're missing detail - no threads on bolts, etc.)
?
Motor Mount: (made of 1/2 inch stainless steel)
?
HubSupport / Thrust Plate (also, I've since added one additional hole):
?
?
?
Spacer (3" x 3") to separate thrust plate / hub mount from motor mount plate. Planning to use a hard wood to start with so I can plane it to get the exact depth I need and provide for adjustment:
?
?
Plate to connect Ways Support to Motor Mount Plate (same holes as Spacer and Thrust plate):
?
The ways support from the mock-up. Actual will be different, but this shows how the supports are set at 98 degrees to tilt motor plate down appropriately:
?
And that's it.?
Despite the wonderful advice from Dan and Carsten I'm likely going to use a heavy duty trailer hub that's way overpowered for my needs.?
In many ways, this is a first pass at the solution. I expect to learn from this install, and potentially change things up. For instance, given the structure, I could likely replace the trailer hub with a machined part relatively easily.??
Thoughts?
?
:-)
Steve
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Re: Electric Drive Installation - Regen and Shunt Meter
This is great information, Dan!? I'm planning on using an Arduino with GPS to continually track several data points when underway - GPS, RPM, Current Draw, battery measurements, heeling angle (or maybe roll, pitch and yaw), and hopefully at some point, speed through water, windspeed and direction, etc.? But the latter are hard to get access to.??
Oooh, I can't wait to have a boat actually moving in the water again!
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Re: Motor Mount and Thrust Plate design - hoping for feedback
Thanks, Dan and Ryan! Ryan, I'll do that! I hadn't thought of using a threaded bar to prevent the motor from sliding down. I could easily create something to hold the motor up during adjustments. Dan, I appreciate the feedback on the slots, too.? I could shorten the height by several inches and save some money on the stainless steel. Here are some notes:
- Pulleys: P30-8M-30 small pulley (30 teeth) and P112-8m-30 large pulley for a 1:3.7 reduction. I'd like more, but 30 teeth is a bit small and going bigger than 112 meant a pulley that would extend too low.??
- 1/2" stainless is crazy but it mates up perfectly with the motor. I could likely get away with 3/8", but I'm someone who consistently overbuilds things, so... 1/2".? I chose stainless because she's lived the last 30 years in saltwater and will likely continue to for the foreseeable future. Plus it's a similar metal to the motor face.? 1/2" aluminum would be plenty strong, and that was my original choice, but decided to do 100% stainless steel (304 series) instead.?
- I'm ordering the plate from either a local steel shop (Everett Steel) or SendCutSend.com so I'll have it laser cut. That adds about $250 dollars to the cost, but I get accurate, clean holes.? And I don't have to figure that part out.?
- Motor: NetGain HyPer 9HV (144V, 500A AC Motor)
- Batteries: 48 EVE 280Ah 3.2V for 153.6 nominal V and 43 kwH
- Boat: 55 ft, 49 at waterline, 45,000 lbs, ketch, 24" prop
I have another couple posts from a long time back on the forum, with more details.?? [email protected] | Repowering a 55' sailboat[email protected] | Repowering a 55' sailboat - Tentative DesignAs you can see in those threads, Dan, your comments and those of others heavily influenced my design and I made some major changes to my initial ideas! :-) Steve
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Re: Motor Mount and Thrust Plate design - hoping for feedback
Only 3/8 bolts to hold the motor??? I think you'll be fine.?? My ME1616 motor is held with four 5/16 fasteners.? It was fine.? I tightened mine with a quick clamp pulling the motor pulley to snug the belt while I tightened the mounting bolts.? It doesn't take a crazy lot of tension with the toothed belts.?
I don't think you need the idler and it is an extra part and an additional wear point for the belt.?? It might be useful if you have a problem with engagement of the toothed belt over the small pulley.? But unless you are running something like a 20 and a 100 tooth pulley you will likely be well within spec for engagement.? I am running 20 and 60 for 3:1 reduction and engagement is fine.? That 1/2 stainless mounting plate seems pretty extreme.? How are you machining that?? It will be quite tough unless you do it with a water jet?? I used 3/4 aluminum because it is easy to work with, properly rigid, and thick enough that I could countersink all the fastener heads for a flush face where the belts ride.?? But I am not in a challenging corrosion environment.? What are the specs on your installation and on the boat??? Motor size, battery size, boat type, loa, lwl, displacement, etc... I have been meaning to post an end of season review of my experience with my electric drive.? I'll see about that soon.?? Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
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On 2021-12-28 5:32 pm, Steven Borg wrote:
Thanks, Dan!? I appreciate the comments. Very much!
You reminded me of a question I forgot to ask about belt tightening. Thank you!
My current plan is to mount a free spinning, 2" idler on one or both sides of the belt. I put two 1/2" slots to accept the bolt. Today, the 30mm wide, 8mm pitch belt slides on my prototype fairly tightly, then I can tighten with the idler.
However, you recommend using slotted holes for the motor mount. I considered that, and it would likely be ideal, since I wouldn't need an idler - saving me both space (I could bring the two gears closer together), and efficiency of having a bend in the timing belt (not to mention the additional wear).? What kept me from doing that is that the motor is 120 pounds and I was worried that the weight and vibration would eventually 'wiggle' the motor down, loosening the belt. This is especially true since I'm having to mount only a single face of the motor (at least that's the current plan).? (Plus, the bolts are only 3/8" holding in the motor.)
Am I being overly concerned about the bolts loosening and the motor slipping down?? I'd love to have slotted mounts, but I'm nervous!??
Thanks again, Dan!? I really appreciate your help. Especially the drawing of your solution!
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Re: Motor Mount and Thrust Plate design - hoping for feedback
It’s worth looking at the thunderstruck solution - that have a top bolt connecting to the plate vertically with locking nuts and with an eye to fasten to the motor and that is used to tension the belt up and down. ?Prevents the other bokts from sliding down. ?I haven’t seen any movement from vibration - also with 200+hours, but I also used a steel strut and rubber washers as dampeners to ensure that the mounting plate and motor doesnt wiggle fore and aft.?
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On Dec 28, 2021, at 14:32, Steven Borg <steve@...> wrote:
?Thanks, Dan!? I appreciate the comments. Very much!
You reminded me of a question I forgot to ask about belt tightening. Thank you!
My current plan is to mount a free spinning, 2" idler on one or both sides of the belt. I put two 1/2" slots to accept the bolt. Today, the 30mm wide, 8mm pitch belt slides on my prototype fairly tightly, then I can tighten with the idler.
However, you recommend using slotted holes for the motor mount. I considered that, and it would likely be ideal, since I wouldn't need an idler - saving me both space (I could bring the two gears closer together), and efficiency of having a bend in the timing belt (not to mention the additional wear).? What kept me from doing that is that the motor is 120 pounds and I was worried that the weight and vibration would eventually 'wiggle' the motor down, loosening the belt. This is especially true since I'm having to mount only a single face of the motor (at least that's the current plan).? (Plus, the bolts are only 3/8" holding in the motor.)
Am I being overly concerned about the bolts loosening and the motor slipping down?? I'd love to have slotted mounts, but I'm nervous!??
Thanks again, Dan!? I really appreciate your help. Especially the drawing of your solution!
|
Re: Motor Mount and Thrust Plate design - hoping for feedback
Thanks, Dan!? I appreciate the comments. Very much!
You reminded me of a question I forgot to ask about belt tightening. Thank you!
My current plan is to mount a free spinning, 2" idler on one or both sides of the belt. I put two 1/2" slots to accept the bolt. Today, the 30mm wide, 8mm pitch belt slides on my prototype fairly tightly, then I can tighten with the idler.
However, you recommend using slotted holes for the motor mount. I considered that, and it would likely be ideal, since I wouldn't need an idler - saving me both space (I could bring the two gears closer together), and efficiency of having a bend in the timing belt (not to mention the additional wear).? What kept me from doing that is that the motor is 120 pounds and I was worried that the weight and vibration would eventually 'wiggle' the motor down, loosening the belt. This is especially true since I'm having to mount only a single face of the motor (at least that's the current plan).? (Plus, the bolts are only 3/8" holding in the motor.)
Am I being overly concerned about the bolts loosening and the motor slipping down?? I'd love to have slotted mounts, but I'm nervous!??
Thanks again, Dan!? I really appreciate your help. Especially the drawing of your solution!
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Re: Motor Mount and Thrust Plate design - hoping for feedback
This looks great.? Very tidy.??
You need to add a way to tension the belt.? Make the mounting holes for the motor vertical slots to give maybe 1" (25mm) of overall travel.?
I think your mounting of the thrust bearing forward of the belt is fine.?? That's how ZF v-drives are done.??? But you may have some issues with shaft diameters to work out.?? I think the trailer hub is a fine solution.? Very robust and affordable in SS.? And it handles thrust and axial loads to keep the shaft aligned.? The reason I didn't use it was simply that I didn't have room.? Its pretty long.? I didn't think of your solution of moving it forward.? That might have worked for me too.?? You still need a flange of some sort to mate your unit to the prop shaft.?? And you need some way of securing your output shaft to the hub.? I had a threaded section of the shaft basically the same as you see on a trailer axle.? I used a locking threaded ring.? I adapted a sketch from my setup to better show what I mean.? Left is aft.? I should have flipped it... sorry. You will need to disconnect the prop shaft at the flanges to change the belt. Not too bad.? You could keep a spare belt already in place and stored back over the stuffing box.? I don't know how much of a concern this is for a nice robust and stiff setup.? I ran for about 300 hours last season and didn't see any signs of issues with the belt.? Dan Pfeiffer
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On 2021-12-28 1:11 pm, Steven Borg wrote:
Next step is to get the pieces together to mount the motor.? I've sketched up several items.? I'm pasting below, but the screenshots are also available here:?
?
Here's what the final assembly will (sort of) look like, from the side (right is aft). Everything is angled down 8% to accommodate slope of propeller shaft. There are no bolts shown, as that felt like just extra work, and the connection to ways isn't the actual, just something I sketched up quickly. It will actually be more triangular to provide additional support -- what I'm showing here is just to give an idea of how everything connects.
One thing to note is that the thrust plate is fore of the belt, which is different than the Thunderstruck solution. This allows me to switch around the motor mounting direction.
Same look, from the side, facing aft:
Same parts, looking fore:
And here are a few views without the ways and connections to the ways:
?
?
Here are the individual parts (realize that pre-manufactured ones I've just sketched up, so they're missing detail - no threads on bolts, etc.)
?
Motor Mount: (made of 1/2 inch stainless steel)
?
HubSupport / Thrust Plate (also, I've since added one additional hole):
?
?
?
Spacer (3" x 3") to separate thrust plate / hub mount from motor mount plate. Planning to use a hard wood to start with so I can plane it to get the exact depth I need and provide for adjustment:
?
?
Plate to connect Ways Support to Motor Mount Plate (same holes as Spacer and Thrust plate):
?
?
The ways support from the mock-up. Actual will be different, but this shows how the supports are set at 98 degrees to tilt motor plate down appropriately:
?
And that's it.?
Despite the wonderful advice from Dan and Carsten I'm likely going to use a heavy duty trailer hub that's way overpowered for my needs.?
In many ways, this is a first pass at the solution. I expect to learn from this install, and potentially change things up. For instance, given the structure, I could likely replace the trailer hub with a machined part relatively easily.??
Thoughts?
?
:-)
Steve
|
Motor Mount and Thrust Plate design - hoping for feedback
Next step is to get the pieces together to mount the motor.? I've sketched up several items.? I'm pasting below, but the screenshots are also available here:?
?
Here's what the final assembly will (sort of) look like, from the side (right is aft). Everything is angled down 8% to accommodate slope of propeller shaft. There are no bolts shown, as that felt like just extra work, and the connection to ways isn't the actual, just something I sketched up quickly. It will actually be more triangular to provide additional support -- what I'm showing here is just to give an idea of how everything connects.
One thing to note is that the thrust plate is fore of the belt, which is different than the Thunderstruck solution. This allows me to switch around the motor mounting direction.
Same look, from the side, facing aft:
Same parts, looking fore:
And here are a few views without the ways and connections to the ways:
?
?
Here are the individual parts (realize that pre-manufactured ones I've just sketched up, so they're missing detail - no threads on bolts, etc.)
?
Motor Mount: (made of 1/2 inch stainless steel)
?
HubSupport / Thrust Plate (also, I've since added one additional hole):
?
?
?
Spacer (3" x 3") to separate thrust plate / hub mount from motor mount plate. Planning to use a hard wood to start with so I can plane it to get the exact depth I need and provide for adjustment:
?
?
Plate to connect Ways Support to Motor Mount Plate (same holes as Spacer and Thrust plate):
?
The ways support from the mock-up. Actual will be different, but this shows how the supports are set at 98 degrees to tilt motor plate down appropriately:
?
And that's it.?
Despite the wonderful advice from Dan and Carsten I'm likely going to use a heavy duty trailer hub that's way overpowered for my needs.?
In many ways, this is a first pass at the solution. I expect to learn from this install, and potentially change things up. For instance, given the structure, I could likely replace the trailer hub with a machined part relatively easily.??
Thoughts?
?
:-)
Steve
|
New Electric SUP IO Group
Aloha eSUP Paddlers,
I started a new IO group for electric standup paddle boarders (eSUP)
/g/electric-sup
Been custom building eSUPs for customers since 2014. Our boards are lively underfoot and a pure joy to ride and paddle. But Firefly is not the only game in town. If you need DIY tips or have an OEM system it’s a wonderful group to share your project and eSUP adventures. All eSUP paddlers welcome.
- Dan
Firefly SUP Drives
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Article about a new electric cat
It’s been very quiet in this forum.?
Here is an article about a new electric catamaran launched in the Salish Sea.? ?
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Re: Electric Sailboat Ride
Thanks Matt
Very interesting!
I have a customer with an interesting use for an electric motor. Basically as a helper motor to be used in tandem with a Diesel engine when running against very strong currents and as the main drive during light use times .
I’ll have to do some more research and figure out the exact case and do a new post but I will be looking forward to your response.
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On Oct 28, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@...> wrote:
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Re: Electric Sailboat Ride
Hi Ken,?
See attached.?
Not proportional. I imagine this is partly due to the Autoprop maximizing thrust at any rpm.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Thursday, October 28, 2021, 04:40:26 PM EDT, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@...> wrote:
Do you track your rpm and did it remain constant as the speed increases?
On Oct 28, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Matt Foley <matt@...> wrote:
? See attached
Finally getting around posting the stats. Missing some data points, but you will get the point. Note, the wattage measurement on the 1803/Curtis setup are from the controller. Add about 10% for overall system wattage.
O'Day 31
Length at waterline 25' 7in Beam 10' 9in Draft "5'3in deep, 4' shoal" Displacement "10,100, 10,400 shoal"
My original setup was direct drive with a Saietta 7.5kw, 4QD controller and a 12"x7 prop
New setup ME1803 8.1kw, Curtis 1236SE, 16" Brunton Autorpop. First try was 2:1 reduction. I was hitting my amp limit at 6.1 knots. Changed to a 3.26:1. That allowed me to kit 7knots at 9000 watts. 10.2kwh lifepo4. 51.2 nominal.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 04:28:08 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
Thanks for the details.?
I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral.?? It would then stay feathered in neutral.? If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin.? I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather.? But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process.? I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg).? But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.?
The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.?
I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.
What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?
I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience.?? I was planning to start with 3:1 myself.? This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V.? 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800.? I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch.? I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing.? I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.?
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
?
On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:
Hi Dan,
?
My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.?
?
I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.?
?
Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my? use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller?
?
In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.?
?
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
?
?
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
?
?
Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??
What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???
Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
?
<RiverRyder Saietta vs ME1803.pdf>
|
I had a 6 hp Tohatsu 4-stroke for years. Great motor.
They now also have a 5-hp propane-fueled 4-stroke. I may go with one of them if I can’t get a suitable electric outboard by spring.
/
Greg DeCowsky ?
Sent from my AyePhone?
|
Update: I've completed the build of my Fleet. My battery cells are stuck in a container off LA, and the delivery of my Elco has been delayed several times due to supply chain issues for motor parts.? So I picked up a Mercury (Tohatsu rebadge) 6hp 4 stroke to use until I can get the electric config delivered and set up. The boat runs beautifully, with a top speed of 17mph solo, and about 13mph with a passenger. Easy cruise is 10-12 mph, with the motor getting 25-30 mpg at that rate (30 mpg solo, 25 mpg with passenger and some gear). It can be driven at any speed desired (no 'step' to planing speed). If the little motor wasn't so noisy and rough I'd be tempted to just stick with gas power, but the prospect of quieter, smoother, cleaner electric propulsion is still very appealing, if I ever get the components delivered! Will update again when I've got the electrification complete. Neil
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Re: Electric Sailboat Ride
Do you track your rpm and did it remain constant as the speed increases?
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On Oct 28, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Matt Foley <matt@...> wrote:
? See attached
Finally getting around posting the stats. Missing some data points, but you will get the point. Note, the wattage measurement on the 1803/Curtis setup are from the controller. Add about 10% for overall system wattage.
O'Day 31
Length at waterline 25' 7in Beam 10' 9in Draft "5'3in deep, 4' shoal" Displacement "10,100, 10,400 shoal"
My original setup was direct drive with a Saietta 7.5kw, 4QD controller and a 12"x7 prop
New setup ME1803 8.1kw, Curtis 1236SE, 16" Brunton Autorpop. First try was 2:1 reduction. I was hitting my amp limit at 6.1 knots. Changed to a 3.26:1. That allowed me to kit 7knots at 9000 watts. 10.2kwh lifepo4. 51.2 nominal.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 04:28:08 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
Thanks for the details.?
I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral.?? It would then stay feathered in neutral.? If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin.? I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather.? But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process.? I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg).? But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.?
The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.?
I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.
What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?
I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience.?? I was planning to start with 3:1 myself.? This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V.? 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800.? I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch.? I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing.? I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.?
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
?
On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:
Hi Dan,
?
My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.?
?
I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.?
?
Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my? use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller?
?
In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.?
?
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
?
?
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
?
?
Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??
What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???
Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
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<RiverRyder Saietta vs ME1803.pdf>
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Re: Electric Sailboat Ride
Nice. And another set of datapoints validating what we typically see: For every knot, double your power. -MT ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt Foley
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 11:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Electric Sailboat Ride? Finally getting around posting the stats. Missing some data points, but you will get the point. Note, the wattage measurement on the 1803/Curtis setup are from the controller. Add about 10% for overall system wattage. Length at waterline 25' 7in Draft "5'3in deep, 4' shoal" Displacement "10,100, 10,400 shoal" My original setup was direct drive with a Saietta 7.5kw, 4QD controller and a 12"x7 prop New setup ME1803 8.1kw, Curtis 1236SE, 16" Brunton Autorpop. First try was 2:1 reduction. I was hitting my amp limit at 6.1 knots. Changed to a 3.26:1. That allowed me to kit 7knots at 9000 watts. ? 10.2kwh lifepo4. 51.2 nominal.? ? On Monday, May 10, 2021, 04:28:08 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote: Thanks for the details.?
I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral.?? It would then stay feathered in neutral.? If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin.? I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather.? But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process.? I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg).? But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.?
The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.?
I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.
What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?
I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience.?? I was planning to start with 3:1 myself.? This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V.? 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800.? I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch.? I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing.? I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.?
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote: My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.? I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.? Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my? use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller? In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.? On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote: Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??
What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???
Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
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