Re: Naive newbie questions
If you'd like a little more or a little less power, push that number up or down a bit.? You now have an estimate for the power of the electric motor you'll need.? Others have commented on how some options might not be powerful enough; now that's quantified.? Next, consider the shaft rpm of your YSM8 when it's running at full tilt.? Find a motor that can deliver that speed while under full load, scheme up a gear system to speed it up or slow it down, or anticipate exchanging the propeller with one that's suitable for the new shaft speed.
As for your electricity source, I suggest you consider LiFePO4 batteries.? Bioenno Power is one vendor; they offer a lot of information that explains? LiFePO4's advantages relative to deep-cycle lead acid.? However, there are other vendors of LiFePO4 batteries that charge much less (i.e. a half or a third!) for the batteries themselves, though they might not have the customer service attitude or reputation of BP.? Compute your cost for both options, considering all factors, including what fraction of the battery's stated capacity is actually usable.? Figure out how long you want your motor to operate in normal use, and plan the battery purchase accordingly.? For emergency use, I suggest you keep a small outboard motor with fuel on hand.? That will be less expensive than sizing your battery bank for the worst emergency situation that you wish to be ready for.
Let us know what you learn and how it goes!
Halden
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Re: Naive newbie questions
It's a YSM8 so 8hp or 4.9kw at 3200 rpm
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Re: Naive newbie questions
What is the HP spec on the Yanmar engine you wish to replace?
-Halden
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Re: Naive newbie questions
Darin:
Those are some great points. I agree with you, after doing some more research, that these motors are probably not suited for sustained 3kw output. They cheap out by providing a controller that will only do ~2kw at 48v. But still, that might be enough if it's only about getting in and out of the slip and perhaps motoring a bit in calm weather. We don't really have any tides to fight where I sail. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Phil: Are you saying that you have a go cart-kit installed that works for you? What kind of boat do you have and what's your battery setup? :-)
So theoretically if I remove my Yanmar engine, I'm guessing I will end up detaching the propeller shaft from its gearbox. The shaft is 25mm from what I can tell. What kind of sprocket would I fit on the shaft and will it have the same keyway? I've read that the gearing should be 2:1 so that if the engine sprocket is 8t I would be looking for a 16t sprocket for the propeller shaft, is that right?
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Re: Naive newbie questions
These are all very good points! Thanks for sharing !! My system based on the go cart kit works for me because as a day sailerl I truly just use it to go in and out of the slip for the last couple of years it's works . I would definitely think about a system like thunderstruck for anything more than that.
My 2 cents: 1.? Smaller motors are more likely to overheat.? Larger motors have more mass and convert more of the energy to torque.? You can offset this limitation a little by using higher voltage.? That's a trick that manufacturers do to save money:? use an undersized motor at a higher voltage.? Since most scooter and bike motors are sized at 48VDC, this scooter motor is already probably undersized for a scooter.? Trying to?power your 27ft sailboat with it is pushing that limitation even further, and I think you are going to find out it is severely undersized.
2. Stick with 48VDC for safety reason since you are not an expert with electricity.? Even people who are experts usually go with 48VDC.?? 3.? Since you are interested in experimenting and learning, I recommend trying to find a DC electric motor in a junkyard or something from a forklift?or golf cart.? There are lots of youtube videos of people who have installed cheap used motors and lead acid batteries.? When you are on a budget you can make it work with some tinkering, but remember you don't have a parking lot out there, so make sure you do your experiments at the dock and when you go out, have a plan for what happens if you break down.?? 4.? If you decide to go with a kit, I'll share my experience about Thunderstruck:? I have a 37ft sailboat and have a 10kW Thunderstruck kit.? I had selected the motor and controller before knowing about Thunderstruck, and was pricing it all out and getting ready to order when I found Thunderstruck's website and realized they had all the same components?I was looking for in a kit that didn't cost much more than the individual parts, AND it came with the wiring harness, instructions, AND the controller was already programmed.? I've been very happy with the outcome and with the help I got from them.? For your boat you might be able to get away with the 5kW motor.? The scooter motor though is probably going to be a waste of your money and not worth it in my opinion.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Darin
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Re: Naive newbie questions
My 2 cents: 1.? Smaller motors are more likely to overheat.? Larger motors have more mass and convert more of the energy to torque.? You can offset this limitation a little by using higher voltage.? That's a trick that manufacturers do to save money:? use an undersized motor at a higher voltage.? Since most scooter and bike motors are sized at 48VDC, this scooter motor is already probably undersized for a scooter.? Trying to?power your 27ft sailboat with it is pushing that limitation even further, and I think you are going to find out it is severely undersized.
2. Stick with 48VDC for safety reason since you are not an expert with electricity.? Even people who are experts usually go with 48VDC.?? 3.? Since you are interested in experimenting and learning, I recommend trying to find a DC electric motor in a junkyard or something from a forklift?or golf cart.? There are lots of youtube videos of people who have installed cheap used motors and lead acid batteries.? When you are on a budget you can make it work with some tinkering, but remember you don't have a parking lot out there, so make sure you do your experiments at the dock and when you go out, have a plan for what happens if you break down.?? 4.? If you decide to go with a kit, I'll share my experience about Thunderstruck:? I have a 37ft sailboat and have a 10kW Thunderstruck kit.? I had selected the motor and controller before knowing about Thunderstruck, and was pricing it all out and getting ready to order when I found Thunderstruck's website and realized they had all the same components?I was looking for in a kit that didn't cost much more than the individual parts, AND it came with the wiring harness, instructions, AND the controller was already programmed.? I've been very happy with the outcome and with the help I got from them.? For your boat you might be able to get away with the 5kW motor.? The scooter motor though is probably going to be a waste of your money and not worth it in my opinion.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Darin
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Re: Naive newbie questions
Watch that I read 72 vdc. The kw looks a little low. Let us know. Good luck
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 11:51 PM, Ashley Holliday via groups.io <rasholly51@...> wrote: That motor and parts seems perfect for what you want to do. Good price, all installation parts supplied just mount and connect to drive shaft, plug in all the controls, connect up to battery and away you go. On Mon, 10 May 2021 at 4:16 am, davidfornborg@... <davidfornborg@...> wrote: Hi!
I'm a new owner of a 27 foot ~4800 pounds displacement sailing boat with a struggling Yanmar 80's diesel engine.
I'm already tired of the smell, leaks and continous breaking and am super keen on going electric.
So this is just for feasability. I'm a total newbie to electrics, other than a little work I've done on my 12v motorcycle .
While I try to keep my diesel working through the season, would it make sense to order a lets say 2000w or 3000w brushless motor kit from China? For example:
Get it home and start tinkering together with a 12v battery as a learn by doing-experience. Is it possible to figure it out as you go with googling? Considering the low cost.
And if I figure it out, order the right speed and reverse controller for a boat and lift out the diesel.
Thanks
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Re: Electric Sailboat Ride
Dam 12 yrs ago I lived in Manasquan . Now in SC. I have an albin Vega looking to go electric.
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 4:28 PM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
Thanks for the details.?
I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral.?? It would then stay feathered in neutral.? If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin.? I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather.? But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process.? I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg).? But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.?
The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.?
I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.
What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?
I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience.?? I was planning to start with 3:1 myself.? This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V.? 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800.? I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch.? I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing.? I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.?
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
?
On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:
Hi Dan,
?
My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.?
?
I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.?
?
Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my? use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller?
?
In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.?
?
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
?
?
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
?
?
Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??
What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???
Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
?
|
Re: Electric Sailboat Ride
Thanks for the details.?
I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral.?? It would then stay feathered in neutral.? If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin.? I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather.? But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process.? I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg).? But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis.?
The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast.?
I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.
What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?
I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience.?? I was planning to start with 3:1 myself.? This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V.? 3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800.? I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch.? I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing.? I hope to be on the water in a few weeks.?
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:
Hi Dan,
?
My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.?
?
I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.?
?
Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my? use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller?
?
In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.?
?
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
?
?
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
?
?
Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??
What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???
Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
?
|
Re: Electric Sailboat Ride
Hi Dan,
My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803.?
I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop.?
Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my? use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller?
In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??
What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???
Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
?
On 2021-05-10 10:30 am, Matt Foley wrote:
Hi Ken,
?
Yes, and according to the manufacturer it should perform better than a fixed prop. I was getting about 22 watts at 3.8 knots. Haven't had any real wind for testing yet. Hopefully this week. There is only so much power we can expect to generate at typical sailing speed for a 30' mono and a limited swept area so I'm not expecting miracles, but hopefully it will be close to as good as it can be.??
?
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
?
?
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 11:18:58 AM EDT, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Matt
?
Very interesting. I'm a broker and I have sold several boat with Diesel engines and Autoprops and am well aware of their advantage. I was unsure how they would translate to electric drive. Are you able to ?regenerate power with the autoprop??
?
K
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 11:10 AM Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote:
Hi Ken,
?
?I use my own boat for testing. I'll try and write it all up one day with specs and measurements, but briefly.?
?
I started out at one extreme with a tiny 12' low pitch prop. This gave me a high RPM which allowed for direct drive. Efficiency at lower speeds were ok,? got worse the faster I went and struggled to hit 5.5 knots. Even so I was happy enough with it's performance.?
?
I'm now using a 16.5" Autprop and a 2:1 reduction. I have only done a few quick test runs, but it's a huge improvement. I would say at least 30% efficiency improvements and I can hit 6.5 knots with ease. 6.7 knots is theoretical hull speed. I will be moving up to a little over 3:1 reduction which should improve system efficiency a bit more.?
?
What makes the Autoprop unique is the ability for the blades to automatically adjust themselves to provide the most thrust at any RPM. This means lower RPM's for any given speed. All things being equal, a lower RPM prop will always be more efficient. Paired with the right motor and or gearing this will be a very efficient setup.? They also pitch themselves to provide maximum regen! (yet to be tested)?
?
Two additional benefits (which I'm less concerned with). They improve sailing speed when not regenerating and you get 100% reverse thrust.?
?
?
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
?
?
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 09:59:18 AM EDT, Ken Winokur < kenwphoto@...> wrote: ?
?
Very interested in your autoprop and why you chose it. Tell us more about it please.
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 11:53 PM Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote: Anyone interested in learning more about an electric boat or just want to check one out. You are invited for a sail anytime. Just bring the beer!?
Boat is located in Atlantic Highlands, NJ.
O'day 31
8.1kw brushless motor
10.2kwh lifepo4?
Orion JR BMS?
Brunton Autoprop
460 watts solar (custom carbon fiber solar bimini in the works)
Also have a converted Honda 2.3 on the dinghy
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
?
?
|
Re: Electric Sailboat Ride
Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing??? If so how do you plan to do that??
What motor is that?? Looks like a Thoosa?? Is there a thrust bearing in the motor???
Do you have any performance data to share?? Knots vs Watts??
Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2021-05-10 10:30 am, Matt Foley wrote:
Hi Ken,
?
Yes, and according to the manufacturer it should perform better than a fixed prop. I was getting about 22 watts at 3.8 knots. Haven't had any real wind for testing yet. Hopefully this week. There is only so much power we can expect to generate at typical sailing speed for a 30' mono and a limited swept area so I'm not expecting miracles, but hopefully it will be close to as good as it can be.??
?
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
?
?
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 11:18:58 AM EDT, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Matt
?
Very interesting. I'm a broker and I have sold several boat with Diesel engines and Autoprops and am well aware of their advantage. I was unsure how they would translate to electric drive. Are you able to ?regenerate power with the autoprop??
?
K
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 11:10 AM Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote:
Hi Ken,
?
?I use my own boat for testing. I'll try and write it all up one day with specs and measurements, but briefly.?
?
I started out at one extreme with a tiny 12' low pitch prop. This gave me a high RPM which allowed for direct drive. Efficiency at lower speeds were ok,? got worse the faster I went and struggled to hit 5.5 knots. Even so I was happy enough with it's performance.?
?
I'm now using a 16.5" Autprop and a 2:1 reduction. I have only done a few quick test runs, but it's a huge improvement. I would say at least 30% efficiency improvements and I can hit 6.5 knots with ease. 6.7 knots is theoretical hull speed. I will be moving up to a little over 3:1 reduction which should improve system efficiency a bit more.?
?
What makes the Autoprop unique is the ability for the blades to automatically adjust themselves to provide the most thrust at any RPM. This means lower RPM's for any given speed. All things being equal, a lower RPM prop will always be more efficient. Paired with the right motor and or gearing this will be a very efficient setup.? They also pitch themselves to provide maximum regen! (yet to be tested)?
?
Two additional benefits (which I'm less concerned with). They improve sailing speed when not regenerating and you get 100% reverse thrust.?
?
?
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
?
?
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 09:59:18 AM EDT, Ken Winokur < kenwphoto@...> wrote: ?
?
Very interested in your autoprop and why you chose it. Tell us more about it please.
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 11:53 PM Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote: Anyone interested in learning more about an electric boat or just want to check one out. You are invited for a sail anytime. Just bring the beer!?
Boat is located in Atlantic Highlands, NJ.
O'day 31
8.1kw brushless motor
10.2kwh lifepo4?
Orion JR BMS?
Brunton Autoprop
460 watts solar (custom carbon fiber solar bimini in the works)
Also have a converted Honda 2.3 on the dinghy
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
?
?
|
Well I have a 23 ft power tri, using bits of a sailing tri I built 40 years ago and found in a NC field. 2 years ago. I found a deal on a complete Elco 20HPoutboard with all parts and 4 12 volt batteries.
I am currrently working on it.
The Elco controller has a 120V plug on it to charge from a shore current.
I want a small solar set up to charge the batteries directly. Since I have solar on my home would be solar anyway just cutting out the middle stage LO>
Did a small 10 ft cat with a renology?panel to chage the motor ( 50lb thrust trolling) and it seems to work.
The 48? volt system you show, would seem that 2 panels and a contoller?would work for the Elco.? In south FL sun is no issue and I would probably on use 1 or 2 days a week so even if Had to disconcte the batteries from the Elco controller to charge would be no hassle
I have contacted them. Ready to gamble the $500.
Len
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 7:18 PM ERIC CHASE via <eric.chase63= [email protected]> wrote: Posted the link separately.? I have an 18’ custom built (1934) launch that was converted to 48V electric by the second owner.? I am the 3rd owner, and my plan is to add the golf cart system to trickle charge.? When (not if) I put an Elco motor in, I’llprobably upgrade to the newer (higher Amp) system.? For now, the old system will allow me to gain experience. ?
I hope you can find the sale page via the link.? I had reached out over a year ago to see if the charger would work on the boat, and the sales guy (Seth) has stayed in touch, which is how I found out about the sale.? ? Lots of stuff on that site, can't find these though. Got a Elco 20? 48 v and would like to rig solar charging
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 2:16 PM eric.chase63 via <eric.chase63= [email protected]> wrote: Power Film Solar makes solar power kits for golf carts.? The panels and controllers are available for 36, 48 and 72 volt configurations.? Since I have a launch with a surrey top, I’ve been interested, but the price was a tad high (about $1000).? I was contacted yesterday that they’ve come out with a new product line that charges at a higher amperage and has more voltage from the panel.? The kicker is, they are selling old inventory for a huge discount.? The generic panel (48” x 36”) was about $890.? It is now $199.? The controller is $99.? Too good to pass up, especially since yesterday the pane was discounted to $299.? Look up PowerFilm Solar. (No, I don’t work for them or get a kickback). Just passing info on a good deal.?
|
Just an odd observation; on the sale link page if you click the specs tab they are listed as 45 W 15.4 V which of course doesn’t make sense for their size. On their website it has the right specs. Just makes me a little nervous as to what I’d really be getting.
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 1:18 PM ERIC CHASE via <eric.chase63= [email protected]> wrote: Posted the link separately.? I have an 18’ custom built (1934) launch that was converted to 48V electric by the second owner.? I am the 3rd owner, and my plan is to add the golf cart system to trickle charge.? When (not if) I put an Elco motor in, I’llprobably upgrade to the newer (higher Amp) system.? For now, the old system will allow me to gain experience. ?
I hope you can find the sale page via the link.? I had reached out over a year ago to see if the charger would work on the boat, and the sales guy (Seth) has stayed in touch, which is how I found out about the sale.? ? Lots of stuff on that site, can't find these though. Got a Elco 20? 48 v and would like to rig solar charging
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 2:16 PM eric.chase63 via <eric.chase63= [email protected]> wrote: Power Film Solar makes solar power kits for golf carts.? The panels and controllers are available for 36, 48 and 72 volt configurations.? Since I have a launch with a surrey top, I’ve been interested, but the price was a tad high (about $1000).? I was contacted yesterday that they’ve come out with a new product line that charges at a higher amperage and has more voltage from the panel.? The kicker is, they are selling old inventory for a huge discount.? The generic panel (48” x 36”) was about $890.? It is now $199.? The controller is $99.? Too good to pass up, especially since yesterday the pane was discounted to $299.? Look up PowerFilm Solar. (No, I don’t work for them or get a kickback). Just passing info on a good deal.?
|
Re: Electric Sailboat Ride
Hi Ken,
Yes, and according to the manufacturer it should perform better than a fixed prop. I was getting about 22 watts at 3.8 knots. Haven't had any real wind for testing yet. Hopefully this week. There is only so much power we can expect to generate at typical sailing speed for a 30' mono and a limited swept area so I'm not expecting miracles, but hopefully it will be close to as good as it can be.??
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 11:18:58 AM EDT, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@...> wrote:
Hi Matt
Very interesting. I’m a broker and I have sold several boat with Diesel engines and Autoprops and am well aware of their advantage. I was unsure how they would translate to electric drive. Are you able to ?regenerate power with the autoprop??
K
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 11:10 AM Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote: Hi Ken,
?I use my own boat for testing. I'll try and write it all up one day with specs and measurements, but briefly.?
I started out at one extreme with a tiny 12' low pitch prop. This gave me a high RPM which allowed for direct drive. Efficiency at lower speeds were ok,? got worse the faster I went and struggled to hit 5.5 knots. Even so I was happy enough with it's performance.?
I'm now using a 16.5" Autprop and a 2:1 reduction. I have only done a few quick test runs, but it's a huge improvement. I would say at least 30% efficiency improvements and I can hit 6.5 knots with ease. 6.7 knots is theoretical hull speed. I will be moving up to a little over 3:1 reduction which should improve system efficiency a bit more.?
What makes the Autoprop unique is the ability for the blades to automatically adjust themselves to provide the most thrust at any RPM. This means lower RPM's for any given speed. All things being equal, a lower RPM prop will always be more efficient. Paired with the right motor and or gearing this will be a very efficient setup.? They also pitch themselves to provide maximum regen! (yet to be tested)?
Two additional benefits (which I'm less concerned with). They improve sailing speed when not regenerating and you get 100% reverse thrust.? ?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 09:59:18 AM EDT, Ken Winokur < kenwphoto@...> wrote:
Very interested in your autoprop and why you chose it. Tell us more about it please. On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 11:53 PM Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote: Anyone interested in learning more about an electric boat or just want to check one out. You are invited for a sail anytime. Just bring the beer!?
Boat is located in Atlantic Highlands, NJ.
O'day 31
8.1kw brushless motor
10.2kwh lifepo4?
Orion JR BMS?
Brunton Autoprop
460 watts solar (custom carbon fiber solar bimini in the works)
Also have a converted Honda 2.3 on the dinghy
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
|
Re: Naive newbie questions
There have been links to Lifepo4 batteries on this list that are effectively cheaper than lead acid when you consider you only need half the capacity. Also bigbattery.com just had some 36v packs that were incredibly cheap. I would check out those before buying lead acid.
Jerry Barth
On May 10, 2021, at 9:02 AM, dfornis <davidfornborg@...> wrote: On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 03:41 PM, Dan Pfeiffer wrote:
20AH lead acid (which means 10AH of usable capacity) will run your motor at 1000 watts for maybe 20 minutes?? Might be enough for your needs but stay far away from trouble (like a lee shore).??
Alright! I would need to double that then at least. But I'd have to plan so that I can start out with a smaller set of batteries in paralell 48v and be able to scale up from there. Thanks for the link, it's a great resource. I wish I had a "sharp analytical approach" but realistically I have a "good enough" and learn-by-doing kind of approach.
|
Re: Electric Sailboat Ride
Hi Matt
Very interesting. I’m a broker and I have sold several boat with Diesel engines and Autoprops and am well aware of their advantage. I was unsure how they would translate to electric drive. Are you able to ?regenerate power with the autoprop??
K
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 11:10 AM Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote: Hi Ken,
?I use my own boat for testing. I'll try and write it all up one day with specs and measurements, but briefly.?
I started out at one extreme with a tiny 12' low pitch prop. This gave me a high RPM which allowed for direct drive. Efficiency at lower speeds were ok,? got worse the faster I went and struggled to hit 5.5 knots. Even so I was happy enough with it's performance.?
I'm now using a 16.5" Autprop and a 2:1 reduction. I have only done a few quick test runs, but it's a huge improvement. I would say at least 30% efficiency improvements and I can hit 6.5 knots with ease. 6.7 knots is theoretical hull speed. I will be moving up to a little over 3:1 reduction which should improve system efficiency a bit more.?
What makes the Autoprop unique is the ability for the blades to automatically adjust themselves to provide the most thrust at any RPM. This means lower RPM's for any given speed. All things being equal, a lower RPM prop will always be more efficient. Paired with the right motor and or gearing this will be a very efficient setup.? They also pitch themselves to provide maximum regen! (yet to be tested)?
Two additional benefits (which I'm less concerned with). They improve sailing speed when not regenerating and you get 100% reverse thrust.? ?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 09:59:18 AM EDT, Ken Winokur < kenwphoto@...> wrote:
Very interested in your autoprop and why you chose it. Tell us more about it please. On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 11:53 PM Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote: Anyone interested in learning more about an electric boat or just want to check one out. You are invited for a sail anytime. Just bring the beer!?
Boat is located in Atlantic Highlands, NJ.
O'day 31
8.1kw brushless motor
10.2kwh lifepo4?
Orion JR BMS?
Brunton Autoprop
460 watts solar (custom carbon fiber solar bimini in the works)
Also have a converted Honda 2.3 on the dinghy
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
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Re: Electric Sailboat Ride
Hi Ken,
?I use my own boat for testing. I'll try and write it all up one day with specs and measurements, but briefly.?
I started out at one extreme with a tiny 12' low pitch prop. This gave me a high RPM which allowed for direct drive. Efficiency at lower speeds were ok,? got worse the faster I went and struggled to hit 5.5 knots. Even so I was happy enough with it's performance.?
I'm now using a 16.5" Autprop and a 2:1 reduction. I have only done a few quick test runs, but it's a huge improvement. I would say at least 30% efficiency improvements and I can hit 6.5 knots with ease. 6.7 knots is theoretical hull speed. I will be moving up to a little over 3:1 reduction which should improve system efficiency a bit more.?
What makes the Autoprop unique is the ability for the blades to automatically adjust themselves to provide the most thrust at any RPM. This means lower RPM's for any given speed. All things being equal, a lower RPM prop will always be more efficient. Paired with the right motor and or gearing this will be a very efficient setup.? They also pitch themselves to provide maximum regen! (yet to be tested)?
Two additional benefits (which I'm less concerned with). They improve sailing speed when not regenerating and you get 100% reverse thrust.? ?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
On Monday, May 10, 2021, 09:59:18 AM EDT, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@...> wrote:
Very interested in your autoprop and why you chose it. Tell us more about it please.
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 11:53 PM Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote: Anyone interested in learning more about an electric boat or just want to check one out. You are invited for a sail anytime. Just bring the beer!?
Boat is located in Atlantic Highlands, NJ.
O'day 31
8.1kw brushless motor
10.2kwh lifepo4?
Orion JR BMS?
Brunton Autoprop
460 watts solar (custom carbon fiber solar bimini in the works)
Also have a converted Honda 2.3 on the dinghy
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
|
Re: Naive newbie questions
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 03:41 PM, Dan Pfeiffer wrote:
20AH lead acid (which means 10AH of usable capacity) will run your motor at 1000 watts for maybe 20 minutes?? Might be enough for your needs but stay far away from trouble (like a lee shore).??
Alright! I would need to double that then at least. But I'd have to plan so that I can start out with a smaller set of batteries in paralell 48v and be able to scale up from there. Thanks for the link, it's a great resource. I wish I had a "sharp analytical approach" but realistically I have a "good enough" and learn-by-doing kind of approach.
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Re: Electric Sailboat Ride
Very interested in your autoprop and why you chose it. Tell us more about it please.
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 11:53 PM Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote: Anyone interested in learning more about an electric boat or just want to check one out. You are invited for a sail anytime. Just bring the beer!?
Boat is located in Atlantic Highlands, NJ.
O'day 31
8.1kw brushless motor
10.2kwh lifepo4?
Orion JR BMS?
Brunton Autoprop
460 watts solar (custom carbon fiber solar bimini in the works)
Also have a converted Honda 2.3 on the dinghy
Matt Foley?
Sunlight Conversions
Perpetual Energy, LLC
201-914-0466
?
|
Re: Naive newbie questions
On 2021-05-09 4:26 pm, davidfornborg@... wrote:
.... wouldn't like 20ah 48v mobility scooter lead acid batteries be fine for light use?
Yes it would if the boat weighed about the same as the mobility scooter.? Otherwise you're gonna need a wee bit more.
20AH lead acid (which means 10AH of usable capacity) will run your motor at 1000 watts for maybe 20 minutes?? Might be enough for your needs but stay far away from trouble (like a lee shore).??
Look at this example in a similar sized boat:
Very interesting project by someone who knows what they are doing with electric drives for bikes? but just getting into the marine application with a sharp analytical approach.?? His original plan was to do a parallel system with the diesel but the diesel was too far gone to make that practical.? Maybe the same Yanmar you have.?? His solution will still likely be beyond your budget from the sound of it.?
You might also look into electric outboard solutions.?
?
Dan Pfeiffer
On 2021-05-09 4:26 pm, davidfornborg@... wrote:
Thanks for replying
Thunderstruck looks great but I'm on a budget and the sailboat is not worth a lot. I would happily go with thunderstruck for a bigger boat I could see myself having for 5-10 years.
LFP batteries would be nice but wouldn't like 20ah 48v mobility scooter lead acid batteries be fine for light use?
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trikini2008