Re: Lake Test - 13' plywood runabout with Torqee
Nice ride! Capt. Carter www.shipofimagination.com
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 4:45 PM, john via groups.io <oak_box@...> wrote: On Monday, 6/22/20, I conducted my first on the water Lake trial with my electric conversion, "Mischief". Mischief is a home built plywood runabout, currently powered with a Torqeedo 4R outboard.? Specs are below:
LOA:? 13' 4" (without motor) Beam:? 5'9" Weight:? about 300-400# Draft:? approximately 6-7", with motor up. Theoretical Hull Speed:? 4.9mph
Motor:? Torqeedo 4R electric outboard (with remote steering) ? ? 48V, max 4000W input
Battery: ? Main battery bank:? 48V 50Ah eBike battery system from BTR (ordered on Amazon) (approx $900) ? Backup / get home battery:? ?48V 20Ah eBike Battery system from BTR? (under $500)
Both battery systems were bench tested.? For each test, the battery was fully charged, and then connected to sets of #9006 12V halogen light bulbs (4 bulbs in series gives a 48V load at about 4A).? Time and voltage were recorded periodically until the battery BMS shut down the voltage output from the battery.? Tests were conducted with 4, 8, and 16 bulbs (max was 4 parallel sets of 4 bulbs, approximately 800-900W).? I have the data on these tests, if anyone is interested.
At the lake!! First test was a static test of running the boat at the boat ramp (the motor needs to be in the water when running).? The motor was run at 1000W, and ran for approximately 45 min before the BMS dropped out, on the 20Ah battery.? The BMS dropped out at about 48V.? ?(The BMS on the 50Ah battery drops out at around 40V.)
The first "on the water" test lasted for approximately an hour, and used approximately 30-50% of the capacity of the 50Ah battery bank.
Performance of the boat consistently met expectations.? Handling was great.? As long as you're ok with a walking speed cruise - the boat performed very well.
?Volts Amps Watts MPH ?58.2? ? 5.15 300 ????????3 ?57.0 6.5 ????????370 ????????3.5 ?56.8 8.80 500 ???????? 3.9 ?57.7 10.4 600 ????????4 ?56.0 15.71 880 ????????4.9 ?57 ????????17.54 1000 5 ?56 ????????26.79 1500 5.7
I've attached a couple of pictures of the boat.? Please let me know if they don't come across.
If anyone would like more details, feel free to contact me.
John
|
Re: Lake Test - 13' plywood runabout with Torqeedo 4R, and 50Ah eBike battery bank
Ok good maybe better than just a regular trolling motor? Hopefully faster Ever tried it with 24v? Thx?
On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 12:37:56 PM PDT, shredderf16 <shredderf16@...> wrote:
SW,
It's a Hang Kai 2.2 About $450 on ali express, plus about 3 months on the slow boat from China. Haven't tested it yet, but looks well made. Chinglesh directions said "do not use in rain!" . It has some open air vents in cowl, I'm going to fabricate some kind of water trap hood for these.
Jerry
On June 25, 2020, at 10:45 AM, "sw via groups.io" <v1opps@...> wrote:
You use the Newport Chinese motor or?? Do you use model airplane pusher prop? Thx On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 23:04, john via <oak_box=[email protected]> wrote:
Jerry, Unfortunately, the wiring on the batteries is small.? Probably only good for 30A.? I currently have a 30Amp breaker between the battery and the motor to prevent overheating the wires coming out of the battery.
I was hopeful I would get a chance to test cranking up the motor at the dock when the boat was back on the trailer - but a barge was taking up two of the 3 lanes, and a line was starting to form, so I didn't have a chance to test what power level (and how long) would trip the breaker.
If the Chinese motor will put out 2kw worth of power, you should be fine.? ?I have tested a Catalina 22 with a Torqeedo 2T (2000W max).? At 1000-1200W, the C22 went about 4mph.? The C22 is a MUCH tougher shape to push than your catamaran, and MUCH heavier.? As always, if you want to go much faster, you'll need a LOT more power.
Dramatically increasing the power will get you a little more speed - but it's not sustainable.? Even if the battery wiring could handle 2500W (max rating of the battery - probably based on the wiring...) - it would exhaust the battery in under an hour.? ?I want at least 2-3 hours of cruising time for a power boat to be considered practical.? At 500-600W, I should be able to cruise at 3.5-4mph for 3-4 hours on a 50Ah battery.? At 500W for 3 hours, I'll have a nice cruise without overly exhausting the battery.
Do you have a place to mount a single motor (between the two pontoons?) You may also be challenged to find 24V eBike motors.
For my boat - the sweet spot for cruising seems to be around 600W - hitting around 4mph.? At that power level, a single 50Ah, 48V eBike battery should give me around 2 hours of cruising.? ?And then, if "something bad happens", I have the 20Ah backup battery that should give me around an hour of "get home" cruising.
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 10:38:16 PM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
Please cranky uppy to 4k watts and let us know results. I got a 2.3 kw chinese motor and building 12' catamaran dinghy. I think I can get by with the one motor but may need two. Thinking bike batteries like you did.
Jerry Barth
On June 24, 2020, at 3:45 PM, "john via " <oak_box= [email protected]> wrote: On Monday, 6/22/20, I conducted my first on the water Lake trial with my electric conversion, "Mischief". Mischief is a home built plywood runabout, currently powered with a Torqeedo 4R outboard.? Specs are below:
LOA:? 13' 4" (without motor) Beam:? 5'9" Weight:? about 300-400# Draft:? approximately 6-7", with motor up. Theoretical Hull Speed:? 4.9mph
Motor:? Torqeedo 4R electric outboard (with remote steering) ? ? 48V, max 4000W input
Battery: ? Main battery bank:? 48V 50Ah eBike battery system from BTR (ordered on Amazon) (approx $900) ? Backup / get home battery:? ?48V 20Ah eBike Battery system from BTR? (under $500)
Both battery systems were bench tested.? For each test, the battery was fully charged, and then connected to sets of #9006 12V halogen light bulbs (4 bulbs in series gives a 48V load at about 4A).? Time and voltage were recorded periodically until the battery BMS shut down the voltage output from the battery.? Tests were conducted with 4, 8, and 16 bulbs (max was 4 parallel sets of 4 bulbs, approximately 800-900W).? I have the data on these tests, if anyone is interested.
At the lake!! First test was a static test of running the boat at the boat ramp (the motor needs to be in the water when running).? The motor was run at 1000W, and ran for approximately 45 min before the BMS dropped out, on the 20Ah battery.? The BMS dropped out at about 48V.? ?(The BMS on the 50Ah battery drops out at around 40V.)
The first "on the water" test lasted for approximately an hour, and used approximately 30-50% of the capacity of the 50Ah battery bank.
Performance of the boat consistently met expectations.? Handling was great.? As long as you're ok with a walking speed cruise - the boat performed very well.
?Volts Amps Watts MPH ?58.2? ? 5.15 300 ????????3 ?57.0 6.5 ????????370 ????????3.5 ?56.8 8.80 500 ???????? 3.9 ?57.7 10.4 600 ????????4 ?56.0 15.71 880 ????????4.9 ?57 ????????17.54 1000 5 ?56 ????????26.79 1500 5.7
I've attached a couple of pictures of the boat.? Please let me know if they don't come across.
If anyone would like more details, feel free to contact me.
John
|
Re: Hangkai 2.2 electric?
Hm.? Interesting.? While the title mentioned "Brushless motor", the specs said it was a 2 stroke gas engine.? ?:)
If it's only 1200W, and only tiller (which would make sense), then I'd be less interested in it. Though - if it really can produce an effective 800W, that would get my little boat to a reasonable speed.
On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 05:00:31 PM CDT, shredderf16 <shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
I misspoke. The motor is 1200 watts. Maybe I came up with 2200 watts because my backup plan is to get another in case one is not enough power. I believe it's tiller only. Here's the link:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32713790916.html
Jerry
On June 25, 2020, at 2:45 PM, "john via groups.io" <oak_box@...> wrote:
Jerry, Not that I need yet another project....? ?but.... I would love to hear more about this motor as you gain experience with it (though I no longer see it listed - maybe my search is bad?)
Is this motor tiller controlled only, or is there a remote control option.
On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 02:37:55 PM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
SW,
It's a Hang Kai 2.2 About $450 on ali express, plus about 3 months on the slow boat from China. Haven't tested it yet, but looks well made. Chinglesh directions said "do not use in rain!" . It has some open air vents in cowl, I'm going to fabricate some kind of water trap hood for these.
Jerry
On June 25, 2020, at 10:45 AM, "sw via " <v1opps=[email protected]> wrote:
You use the Newport Chinese motor or?? Do you use model airplane pusher prop? Thx On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 23:04, john via <oak_box=[email protected]> wrote:
Jerry, Unfortunately, the wiring on the batteries is small.? Probably only good for 30A.? I currently have a 30Amp breaker between the battery and the motor to prevent overheating the wires coming out of the battery.
I was hopeful I would get a chance to test cranking up the motor at the dock when the boat was back on the trailer - but a barge was taking up two of the 3 lanes, and a line was starting to form, so I didn't have a chance to test what power level (and how long) would trip the breaker.
If the Chinese motor will put out 2kw worth of power, you should be fine.? ?I have tested a Catalina 22 with a Torqeedo 2T (2000W max).? At 1000-1200W, the C22 went about 4mph.? The C22 is a MUCH tougher shape to push than your catamaran, and MUCH heavier.? As always, if you want to go much faster, you'll need a LOT more power.
Dramatically increasing the power will get you a little more speed - but it's not sustainable.? Even if the battery wiring could handle 2500W (max rating of the battery - probably based on the wiring...) - it would exhaust the battery in under an hour.? ?I want at least 2-3 hours of cruising time for a power boat to be considered practical.? At 500-600W, I should be able to cruise at 3.5-4mph for 3-4 hours on a 50Ah battery.? At 500W for 3 hours, I'll have a nice cruise without overly exhausting the battery.
Do you have a place to mount a single motor (between the two pontoons?) You may also be challenged to find 24V eBike motors.
For my boat - the sweet spot for cruising seems to be around 600W - hitting around 4mph.? At that power level, a single 50Ah, 48V eBike battery should give me around 2 hours of cruising.? ?And then, if "something bad happens", I have the 20Ah backup battery that should give me around an hour of "get home" cruising.
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 10:38:16 PM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
Please cranky uppy to 4k watts and let us know results. I got a 2.3 kw chinese motor and building 12' catamaran dinghy. I think I can get by with the one motor but may need two. Thinking bike batteries like you did.
Jerry Barth
On June 24, 2020, at 3:45 PM, "john via " <oak_box= [email protected]> wrote: On Monday, 6/22/20, I conducted my first on the water Lake trial with my electric conversion, "Mischief". Mischief is a home built plywood runabout, currently powered with a Torqeedo 4R outboard.? Specs are below:
LOA:? 13' 4" (without motor) Beam:? 5'9" Weight:? about 300-400# Draft:? approximately 6-7", with motor up. Theoretical Hull Speed:? 4.9mph
Motor:? Torqeedo 4R electric outboard (with remote steering) ? ? 48V, max 4000W input
Battery: ? Main battery bank:? 48V 50Ah eBike battery system from BTR (ordered on Amazon) (approx $900) ? Backup / get home battery:? ?48V 20Ah eBike Battery system from BTR? (under $500)
Both battery systems were bench tested.? For each test, the battery was fully charged, and then connected to sets of #9006 12V halogen light bulbs (4 bulbs in series gives a 48V load at about 4A).? Time and voltage were recorded periodically until the battery BMS shut down the voltage output from the battery.? Tests were conducted with 4, 8, and 16 bulbs (max was 4 parallel sets of 4 bulbs, approximately 800-900W).? I have the data on these tests, if anyone is interested.
At the lake!! First test was a static test of running the boat at the boat ramp (the motor needs to be in the water when running).? The motor was run at 1000W, and ran for approximately 45 min before the BMS dropped out, on the 20Ah battery.? The BMS dropped out at about 48V.? ?(The BMS on the 50Ah battery drops out at around 40V.)
The first "on the water" test lasted for approximately an hour, and used approximately 30-50% of the capacity of the 50Ah battery bank.
Performance of the boat consistently met expectations.? Handling was great.? As long as you're ok with a walking speed cruise - the boat performed very well.
?Volts Amps Watts MPH ?58.2? ? 5.15 300 ????????3 ?57.0 6.5 ????????370 ????????3.5 ?56.8 8.80 500 ???????? 3.9 ?57.7 10.4 600 ????????4 ?56.0 15.71 880 ????????4.9 ?57 ????????17.54 1000 5 ?56 ????????26.79 1500 5.7
I've attached a couple of pictures of the boat.? Please let me know if they don't come across.
If anyone would like more details, feel free to contact me.
John
|
Re: Hangkai 2.2 electric?
John,
I misspoke. The motor is 1200 watts. Maybe I came up with 2200 watts because my backup plan is to get another in case one is not enough power. I believe it's tiller only. Here's the link:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32713790916.html
Jerry
On June 25, 2020, at 2:45 PM, "john via groups.io" <oak_box@...> wrote:
Jerry, Not that I need yet another project....? ?but.... I would love to hear more about this motor as you gain experience with it (though I no longer see it listed - maybe my search is bad?)
Is this motor tiller controlled only, or is there a remote control option.
On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 02:37:55 PM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
SW,
It's a Hang Kai 2.2 About $450 on ali express, plus about 3 months on the slow boat from China. Haven't tested it yet, but looks well made. Chinglesh directions said "do not use in rain!" . It has some open air vents in cowl, I'm going to fabricate some kind of water trap hood for these.
Jerry
On June 25, 2020, at 10:45 AM, "sw via " <v1opps=[email protected]> wrote:
You use the Newport Chinese motor or?? Do you use model airplane pusher prop? Thx On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 23:04, john via <oak_box=[email protected]> wrote:
Jerry, Unfortunately, the wiring on the batteries is small.? Probably only good for 30A.? I currently have a 30Amp breaker between the battery and the motor to prevent overheating the wires coming out of the battery.
I was hopeful I would get a chance to test cranking up the motor at the dock when the boat was back on the trailer - but a barge was taking up two of the 3 lanes, and a line was starting to form, so I didn't have a chance to test what power level (and how long) would trip the breaker.
If the Chinese motor will put out 2kw worth of power, you should be fine.? ?I have tested a Catalina 22 with a Torqeedo 2T (2000W max).? At 1000-1200W, the C22 went about 4mph.? The C22 is a MUCH tougher shape to push than your catamaran, and MUCH heavier.? As always, if you want to go much faster, you'll need a LOT more power.
Dramatically increasing the power will get you a little more speed - but it's not sustainable.? Even if the battery wiring could handle 2500W (max rating of the battery - probably based on the wiring...) - it would exhaust the battery in under an hour.? ?I want at least 2-3 hours of cruising time for a power boat to be considered practical.? At 500-600W, I should be able to cruise at 3.5-4mph for 3-4 hours on a 50Ah battery.? At 500W for 3 hours, I'll have a nice cruise without overly exhausting the battery.
Do you have a place to mount a single motor (between the two pontoons?) You may also be challenged to find 24V eBike motors.
For my boat - the sweet spot for cruising seems to be around 600W - hitting around 4mph.? At that power level, a single 50Ah, 48V eBike battery should give me around 2 hours of cruising.? ?And then, if "something bad happens", I have the 20Ah backup battery that should give me around an hour of "get home" cruising.
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 10:38:16 PM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
Please cranky uppy to 4k watts and let us know results. I got a 2.3 kw chinese motor and building 12' catamaran dinghy. I think I can get by with the one motor but may need two. Thinking bike batteries like you did.
Jerry Barth
On June 24, 2020, at 3:45 PM, "john via " <oak_box= [email protected]> wrote: On Monday, 6/22/20, I conducted my first on the water Lake trial with my electric conversion, "Mischief". Mischief is a home built plywood runabout, currently powered with a Torqeedo 4R outboard.? Specs are below:
LOA:? 13' 4" (without motor) Beam:? 5'9" Weight:? about 300-400# Draft:? approximately 6-7", with motor up. Theoretical Hull Speed:? 4.9mph
Motor:? Torqeedo 4R electric outboard (with remote steering) ? ? 48V, max 4000W input
Battery: ? Main battery bank:? 48V 50Ah eBike battery system from BTR (ordered on Amazon) (approx $900) ? Backup / get home battery:? ?48V 20Ah eBike Battery system from BTR? (under $500)
Both battery systems were bench tested.? For each test, the battery was fully charged, and then connected to sets of #9006 12V halogen light bulbs (4 bulbs in series gives a 48V load at about 4A).? Time and voltage were recorded periodically until the battery BMS shut down the voltage output from the battery.? Tests were conducted with 4, 8, and 16 bulbs (max was 4 parallel sets of 4 bulbs, approximately 800-900W).? I have the data on these tests, if anyone is interested.
At the lake!! First test was a static test of running the boat at the boat ramp (the motor needs to be in the water when running).? The motor was run at 1000W, and ran for approximately 45 min before the BMS dropped out, on the 20Ah battery.? The BMS dropped out at about 48V.? ?(The BMS on the 50Ah battery drops out at around 40V.)
The first "on the water" test lasted for approximately an hour, and used approximately 30-50% of the capacity of the 50Ah battery bank.
Performance of the boat consistently met expectations.? Handling was great.? As long as you're ok with a walking speed cruise - the boat performed very well.
?Volts Amps Watts MPH ?58.2? ? 5.15 300 ????????3 ?57.0 6.5 ????????370 ????????3.5 ?56.8 8.80 500 ???????? 3.9 ?57.7 10.4 600 ????????4 ?56.0 15.71 880 ????????4.9 ?57 ????????17.54 1000 5 ?56 ????????26.79 1500 5.7
I've attached a couple of pictures of the boat.? Please let me know if they don't come across.
If anyone would like more details, feel free to contact me.
John
|
Jerry, Not that I need yet another project....? ?but.... I would love to hear more about this motor as you gain experience with it (though I no longer see it listed - maybe my search is bad?)
Is this motor tiller controlled only, or is there a remote control option.
On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 02:37:55 PM CDT, shredderf16 <shredderf16@...> wrote:
SW,
It's a Hang Kai 2.2 About $450 on ali express, plus about 3 months on the slow boat from China. Haven't tested it yet, but looks well made. Chinglesh directions said "do not use in rain!" . It has some open air vents in cowl, I'm going to fabricate some kind of water trap hood for these.
Jerry
On June 25, 2020, at 10:45 AM, "sw via groups.io" <v1opps@...> wrote:
You use the Newport Chinese motor or?? Do you use model airplane pusher prop? Thx On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 23:04, john via <oak_box=[email protected]> wrote:
Jerry, Unfortunately, the wiring on the batteries is small.? Probably only good for 30A.? I currently have a 30Amp breaker between the battery and the motor to prevent overheating the wires coming out of the battery.
I was hopeful I would get a chance to test cranking up the motor at the dock when the boat was back on the trailer - but a barge was taking up two of the 3 lanes, and a line was starting to form, so I didn't have a chance to test what power level (and how long) would trip the breaker.
If the Chinese motor will put out 2kw worth of power, you should be fine.? ?I have tested a Catalina 22 with a Torqeedo 2T (2000W max).? At 1000-1200W, the C22 went about 4mph.? The C22 is a MUCH tougher shape to push than your catamaran, and MUCH heavier.? As always, if you want to go much faster, you'll need a LOT more power.
Dramatically increasing the power will get you a little more speed - but it's not sustainable.? Even if the battery wiring could handle 2500W (max rating of the battery - probably based on the wiring...) - it would exhaust the battery in under an hour.? ?I want at least 2-3 hours of cruising time for a power boat to be considered practical.? At 500-600W, I should be able to cruise at 3.5-4mph for 3-4 hours on a 50Ah battery.? At 500W for 3 hours, I'll have a nice cruise without overly exhausting the battery.
Do you have a place to mount a single motor (between the two pontoons?) You may also be challenged to find 24V eBike motors.
For my boat - the sweet spot for cruising seems to be around 600W - hitting around 4mph.? At that power level, a single 50Ah, 48V eBike battery should give me around 2 hours of cruising.? ?And then, if "something bad happens", I have the 20Ah backup battery that should give me around an hour of "get home" cruising.
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 10:38:16 PM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
Please cranky uppy to 4k watts and let us know results. I got a 2.3 kw chinese motor and building 12' catamaran dinghy. I think I can get by with the one motor but may need two. Thinking bike batteries like you did.
Jerry Barth
On June 24, 2020, at 3:45 PM, "john via " <oak_box= [email protected]> wrote: On Monday, 6/22/20, I conducted my first on the water Lake trial with my electric conversion, "Mischief". Mischief is a home built plywood runabout, currently powered with a Torqeedo 4R outboard.? Specs are below:
LOA:? 13' 4" (without motor) Beam:? 5'9" Weight:? about 300-400# Draft:? approximately 6-7", with motor up. Theoretical Hull Speed:? 4.9mph
Motor:? Torqeedo 4R electric outboard (with remote steering) ? ? 48V, max 4000W input
Battery: ? Main battery bank:? 48V 50Ah eBike battery system from BTR (ordered on Amazon) (approx $900) ? Backup / get home battery:? ?48V 20Ah eBike Battery system from BTR? (under $500)
Both battery systems were bench tested.? For each test, the battery was fully charged, and then connected to sets of #9006 12V halogen light bulbs (4 bulbs in series gives a 48V load at about 4A).? Time and voltage were recorded periodically until the battery BMS shut down the voltage output from the battery.? Tests were conducted with 4, 8, and 16 bulbs (max was 4 parallel sets of 4 bulbs, approximately 800-900W).? I have the data on these tests, if anyone is interested.
At the lake!! First test was a static test of running the boat at the boat ramp (the motor needs to be in the water when running).? The motor was run at 1000W, and ran for approximately 45 min before the BMS dropped out, on the 20Ah battery.? The BMS dropped out at about 48V.? ?(The BMS on the 50Ah battery drops out at around 40V.)
The first "on the water" test lasted for approximately an hour, and used approximately 30-50% of the capacity of the 50Ah battery bank.
Performance of the boat consistently met expectations.? Handling was great.? As long as you're ok with a walking speed cruise - the boat performed very well.
?Volts Amps Watts MPH ?58.2? ? 5.15 300 ????????3 ?57.0 6.5 ????????370 ????????3.5 ?56.8 8.80 500 ???????? 3.9 ?57.7 10.4 600 ????????4 ?56.0 15.71 880 ????????4.9 ?57 ????????17.54 1000 5 ?56 ????????26.79 1500 5.7
I've attached a couple of pictures of the boat.? Please let me know if they don't come across.
If anyone would like more details, feel free to contact me.
John
|
Re: Lake Test - 13' plywood runabout with Torqeedo 4R, and 50Ah eBike battery bank
SW,
It's a Hang Kai 2.2 About $450 on ali express, plus about 3 months on the slow boat from China. Haven't tested it yet, but looks well made. Chinglesh directions said "do not use in rain!" . It has some open air vents in cowl, I'm going to fabricate some kind of water trap hood for these.
Jerry
On June 25, 2020, at 10:45 AM, "sw via groups.io" <v1opps@...> wrote:
You use the Newport Chinese motor or?? Do you use model airplane pusher prop? Thx On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 23:04, john via <oak_box=[email protected]> wrote:
Jerry, Unfortunately, the wiring on the batteries is small.? Probably only good for 30A.? I currently have a 30Amp breaker between the battery and the motor to prevent overheating the wires coming out of the battery.
I was hopeful I would get a chance to test cranking up the motor at the dock when the boat was back on the trailer - but a barge was taking up two of the 3 lanes, and a line was starting to form, so I didn't have a chance to test what power level (and how long) would trip the breaker.
If the Chinese motor will put out 2kw worth of power, you should be fine.? ?I have tested a Catalina 22 with a Torqeedo 2T (2000W max).? At 1000-1200W, the C22 went about 4mph.? The C22 is a MUCH tougher shape to push than your catamaran, and MUCH heavier.? As always, if you want to go much faster, you'll need a LOT more power.
Dramatically increasing the power will get you a little more speed - but it's not sustainable.? Even if the battery wiring could handle 2500W (max rating of the battery - probably based on the wiring...) - it would exhaust the battery in under an hour.? ?I want at least 2-3 hours of cruising time for a power boat to be considered practical.? At 500-600W, I should be able to cruise at 3.5-4mph for 3-4 hours on a 50Ah battery.? At 500W for 3 hours, I'll have a nice cruise without overly exhausting the battery.
Do you have a place to mount a single motor (between the two pontoons?) You may also be challenged to find 24V eBike motors.
For my boat - the sweet spot for cruising seems to be around 600W - hitting around 4mph.? At that power level, a single 50Ah, 48V eBike battery should give me around 2 hours of cruising.? ?And then, if "something bad happens", I have the 20Ah backup battery that should give me around an hour of "get home" cruising.
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 10:38:16 PM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
Please cranky uppy to 4k watts and let us know results. I got a 2.3 kw chinese motor and building 12' catamaran dinghy. I think I can get by with the one motor but may need two. Thinking bike batteries like you did.
Jerry Barth
On June 24, 2020, at 3:45 PM, "john via " <oak_box= [email protected]> wrote: On Monday, 6/22/20, I conducted my first on the water Lake trial with my electric conversion, "Mischief". Mischief is a home built plywood runabout, currently powered with a Torqeedo 4R outboard.? Specs are below:
LOA:? 13' 4" (without motor) Beam:? 5'9" Weight:? about 300-400# Draft:? approximately 6-7", with motor up. Theoretical Hull Speed:? 4.9mph
Motor:? Torqeedo 4R electric outboard (with remote steering) ? ? 48V, max 4000W input
Battery: ? Main battery bank:? 48V 50Ah eBike battery system from BTR (ordered on Amazon) (approx $900) ? Backup / get home battery:? ?48V 20Ah eBike Battery system from BTR? (under $500)
Both battery systems were bench tested.? For each test, the battery was fully charged, and then connected to sets of #9006 12V halogen light bulbs (4 bulbs in series gives a 48V load at about 4A).? Time and voltage were recorded periodically until the battery BMS shut down the voltage output from the battery.? Tests were conducted with 4, 8, and 16 bulbs (max was 4 parallel sets of 4 bulbs, approximately 800-900W).? I have the data on these tests, if anyone is interested.
At the lake!! First test was a static test of running the boat at the boat ramp (the motor needs to be in the water when running).? The motor was run at 1000W, and ran for approximately 45 min before the BMS dropped out, on the 20Ah battery.? The BMS dropped out at about 48V.? ?(The BMS on the 50Ah battery drops out at around 40V.)
The first "on the water" test lasted for approximately an hour, and used approximately 30-50% of the capacity of the 50Ah battery bank.
Performance of the boat consistently met expectations.? Handling was great.? As long as you're ok with a walking speed cruise - the boat performed very well.
?Volts Amps Watts MPH ?58.2? ? 5.15 300 ????????3 ?57.0 6.5 ????????370 ????????3.5 ?56.8 8.80 500 ???????? 3.9 ?57.7 10.4 600 ????????4 ?56.0 15.71 880 ????????4.9 ?57 ????????17.54 1000 5 ?56 ????????26.79 1500 5.7
I've attached a couple of pictures of the boat.? Please let me know if they don't come across.
If anyone would like more details, feel free to contact me.
John
|
Re: House systems - separate or together with drive system?
This is the converter I used. Works fine for me, as I don't really have any real heavy draw stuff on my 12v house bank like wenches etc; but it should still work fine to fill the house bank back up after occasional intermittent heavy amp draw use.?
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:51 AM, ryanwestbrookcary1@... <ryanwestbrookcary1@...> wrote: ??Hello Ryan! Good name! I'm Ryan also.?
On my setup, I knew that my house requirements were sufficient to really need their own bank, so I have 2 qty Grp 27 deep cycles in parallel, and seperable by means of a 3-way batter switch. I did this for the reason previously stated, as to be able to isolate a starting battery for the main engine, in my case an old evinrude 140 converted from b.s. vro to mix.?
The 48v bank for auxillary propulsion is chargeable by 4 qty 100w 12v renology panels, and by a small honda 2200w inverter generator pushing a 48v 25a switching power supply, isolated from the solar cells by large blocking diodes, and being fed parallel into a large analogue relay controlled by a charge controller.?
I ended up getting an "intelligent" 25a 48v to 12v nominal converter and just putting it between them, and thus far it has worked just fine. It simply makes more sense, with my setup anyway, to charge the propulsion bank directly and have keep the house bank topped off. I have to be trying hard to pull 30a from it, except of course when starting the motor; and so the propulsion bank makes the cycle rate on my house bank pretty much non existent when at anchor, and when underway, between the solar array and the little genny, it keeps my big bank pretty stable unless I am at full throttle on the electric outboard and running everything imaginable on the house bank
Make sure that the grounds of the 2 banks are grounded (negative) common and bonded to the metal components of the hull, for safety and galvanic reasons.? On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 10:45 AM, Reuben Trane via groups.io <rjtrane@...> wrote: Here's the link for the chargers I purchased - 10A each - I feel since they're on 24/7 and there's power in the battery that the small amp version works for me. About $105 plus shipping - took about a week to arrive.
|
Re: House systems - separate or together with drive system?
??Hello Ryan! Good name! I'm Ryan also.?
On my setup, I knew that my house requirements were sufficient to really need their own bank, so I have 2 qty Grp 27 deep cycles in parallel, and seperable by means of a 3-way batter switch. I did this for the reason previously stated, as to be able to isolate a starting battery for the main engine, in my case an old evinrude 140 converted from b.s. vro to mix.?
The 48v bank for auxillary propulsion is chargeable by 4 qty 100w 12v renology panels, and by a small honda 2200w inverter generator pushing a 48v 25a switching power supply, isolated from the solar cells by large blocking diodes, and being fed parallel into a large analogue relay controlled by a charge controller.?
I ended up getting an "intelligent" 25a 48v to 12v nominal converter and just putting it between them, and thus far it has worked just fine. It simply makes more sense, with my setup anyway, to charge the propulsion bank directly and have keep the house bank topped off. I have to be trying hard to pull 30a from it, except of course when starting the motor; and so the propulsion bank makes the cycle rate on my house bank pretty much non existent when at anchor, and when underway, between the solar array and the little genny, it keeps my big bank pretty stable unless I am at full throttle on the electric outboard and running everything imaginable on the house bank
Make sure that the grounds of the 2 banks are grounded (negative) common and bonded to the metal components of the hull, for safety and galvanic reasons.?
|
Re: Lake Test - 13' plywood runabout with Torqeedo 4R, and 50Ah eBike battery bank
I have heard some use a 15x11. 7 ????? pusher prop to get more speed??
On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 12:15, john via groups.io <oak_box@...> wrote:
Jerry, If the motor is a 48V system, then take a serious look at the eBike batteries.? When I was looking, it was significantly less expensive buy a 50Ah eBike battery, than it was to try to put together a system of cells of that size.
If you want more than 50Ah, then you'll need to roll your own, though at least 12V assemblies are available, if you want to build up from that, instead of individual cells.
Obviously, much faster to build up with 12V banks than 3V cells.
One of the drawbacks of using the eBike battery is that I had concerns about putting two eBike batteries in parallel.? Since I don't know what's inside, I can't be sure that tying eBike batteries is safe.? The vendor recommends NOT tying in parallel.
One of the things that I really liked about the BTR eBike batteries is that they fit in standard battery boxes.? So I can fit an entire 48V, 50Ah chunk in one group 31 battery box.??
John
On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 11:50:01 AM CDT, shredderf16 <shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
It's a 48v motor. The prototype cat would plane with a 200 lb man with a 4 hp Yamaha gas. I'll probably end up with a lifepo4 pack that is self made due to the issues you identified. The bike packs intrigue me because I can carry them home for recharging versus having to put solar panels on the boat.
Jerry
On June 24, 2020, at 11:04 PM, "john via groups.io" <oak_box@...> wrote:
Jerry, Unfortunately, the wiring on the batteries is small.? Probably only good for 30A.? I currently have a 30Amp breaker between the battery and the motor to prevent overheating the wires coming out of the battery.
I was hopeful I would get a chance to test cranking up the motor at the dock when the boat was back on the trailer - but a barge was taking up two of the 3 lanes, and a line was starting to form, so I didn't have a chance to test what power level (and how long) would trip the breaker.
If the Chinese motor will put out 2kw worth of power, you should be fine.? ?I have tested a Catalina 22 with a Torqeedo 2T (2000W max).? At 1000-1200W, the C22 went about 4mph.? The C22 is a MUCH tougher shape to push than your catamaran, and MUCH heavier.? As always, if you want to go much faster, you'll need a LOT more power.
Dramatically increasing the power will get you a little more speed - but it's not sustainable.? Even if the battery wiring could handle 2500W (max rating of the battery - probably based on the wiring...) - it would exhaust the battery in under an hour.? ?I want at least 2-3 hours of cruising time for a power boat to be considered practical.? At 500-600W, I should be able to cruise at 3.5-4mph for 3-4 hours on a 50Ah battery.? At 500W for 3 hours, I'll have a nice cruise without overly exhausting the battery.
Do you have a place to mount a single motor (between the two pontoons?) You may also be challenged to find 24V eBike motors.
For my boat - the sweet spot for cruising seems to be around 600W - hitting around 4mph.? At that power level, a single 50Ah, 48V eBike battery should give me around 2 hours of cruising.? ?And then, if "something bad happens", I have the 20Ah backup battery that should give me around an hour of "get home" cruising.
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 10:38:16 PM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
Please cranky uppy to 4k watts and let us know results. I got a 2.3 kw chinese motor and building 12' catamaran dinghy. I think I can get by with the one motor but may need two. Thinking bike batteries like you did.
Jerry Barth
On June 24, 2020, at 3:45 PM, "john via " <oak_box= [email protected]> wrote: On Monday, 6/22/20, I conducted my first on the water Lake trial with my electric conversion, "Mischief". Mischief is a home built plywood runabout, currently powered with a Torqeedo 4R outboard.? Specs are below:
LOA:? 13' 4" (without motor) Beam:? 5'9" Weight:? about 300-400# Draft:? approximately 6-7", with motor up. Theoretical Hull Speed:? 4.9mph
Motor:? Torqeedo 4R electric outboard (with remote steering) ? ? 48V, max 4000W input
Battery: ? Main battery bank:? 48V 50Ah eBike battery system from BTR (ordered on Amazon) (approx $900) ? Backup / get home battery:? ?48V 20Ah eBike Battery system from BTR? (under $500)
Both battery systems were bench tested.? For each test, the battery was fully charged, and then connected to sets of #9006 12V halogen light bulbs (4 bulbs in series gives a 48V load at about 4A).? Time and voltage were recorded periodically until the battery BMS shut down the voltage output from the battery.? Tests were conducted with 4, 8, and 16 bulbs (max was 4 parallel sets of 4 bulbs, approximately 800-900W).? I have the data on these tests, if anyone is interested.
At the lake!! First test was a static test of running the boat at the boat ramp (the motor needs to be in the water when running).? The motor was run at 1000W, and ran for approximately 45 min before the BMS dropped out, on the 20Ah battery.? The BMS dropped out at about 48V.? ?(The BMS on the 50Ah battery drops out at around 40V.)
The first "on the water" test lasted for approximately an hour, and used approximately 30-50% of the capacity of the 50Ah battery bank.
Performance of the boat consistently met expectations.? Handling was great.? As long as you're ok with a walking speed cruise - the boat performed very well.
?Volts Amps Watts MPH ?58.2? ? 5.15 300 ????????3 ?57.0 6.5 ????????370 ????????3.5 ?56.8 8.80 500 ???????? 3.9 ?57.7 10.4 600 ????????4 ?56.0 15.71 880 ????????4.9 ?57 ????????17.54 1000 5 ?56 ????????26.79 1500 5.7
I've attached a couple of pictures of the boat.? Please let me know if they don't come across.
If anyone would like more details, feel free to contact me.
John
|
Re: Lake Test - 13' plywood runabout with Torqeedo 4R, and 50Ah eBike battery bank
Jerry, If the motor is a 48V system, then take a serious look at the eBike batteries.? When I was looking, it was significantly less expensive buy a 50Ah eBike battery, than it was to try to put together a system of cells of that size.
If you want more than 50Ah, then you'll need to roll your own, though at least 12V assemblies are available, if you want to build up from that, instead of individual cells.
Obviously, much faster to build up with 12V banks than 3V cells.
One of the drawbacks of using the eBike battery is that I had concerns about putting two eBike batteries in parallel.? Since I don't know what's inside, I can't be sure that tying eBike batteries is safe.? The vendor recommends NOT tying in parallel.
One of the things that I really liked about the BTR eBike batteries is that they fit in standard battery boxes.? So I can fit an entire 48V, 50Ah chunk in one group 31 battery box.??
John
On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 11:50:01 AM CDT, shredderf16 <shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
It's a 48v motor. The prototype cat would plane with a 200 lb man with a 4 hp Yamaha gas. I'll probably end up with a lifepo4 pack that is self made due to the issues you identified. The bike packs intrigue me because I can carry them home for recharging versus having to put solar panels on the boat.
Jerry
On June 24, 2020, at 11:04 PM, "john via groups.io" <oak_box@...> wrote:
Jerry, Unfortunately, the wiring on the batteries is small.? Probably only good for 30A.? I currently have a 30Amp breaker between the battery and the motor to prevent overheating the wires coming out of the battery.
I was hopeful I would get a chance to test cranking up the motor at the dock when the boat was back on the trailer - but a barge was taking up two of the 3 lanes, and a line was starting to form, so I didn't have a chance to test what power level (and how long) would trip the breaker.
If the Chinese motor will put out 2kw worth of power, you should be fine.? ?I have tested a Catalina 22 with a Torqeedo 2T (2000W max).? At 1000-1200W, the C22 went about 4mph.? The C22 is a MUCH tougher shape to push than your catamaran, and MUCH heavier.? As always, if you want to go much faster, you'll need a LOT more power.
Dramatically increasing the power will get you a little more speed - but it's not sustainable.? Even if the battery wiring could handle 2500W (max rating of the battery - probably based on the wiring...) - it would exhaust the battery in under an hour.? ?I want at least 2-3 hours of cruising time for a power boat to be considered practical.? At 500-600W, I should be able to cruise at 3.5-4mph for 3-4 hours on a 50Ah battery.? At 500W for 3 hours, I'll have a nice cruise without overly exhausting the battery.
Do you have a place to mount a single motor (between the two pontoons?) You may also be challenged to find 24V eBike motors.
For my boat - the sweet spot for cruising seems to be around 600W - hitting around 4mph.? At that power level, a single 50Ah, 48V eBike battery should give me around 2 hours of cruising.? ?And then, if "something bad happens", I have the 20Ah backup battery that should give me around an hour of "get home" cruising.
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 10:38:16 PM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
Please cranky uppy to 4k watts and let us know results. I got a 2.3 kw chinese motor and building 12' catamaran dinghy. I think I can get by with the one motor but may need two. Thinking bike batteries like you did.
Jerry Barth
On June 24, 2020, at 3:45 PM, "john via " <oak_box=[email protected]> wrote:
On Monday, 6/22/20, I conducted my first on the water Lake trial with my electric conversion, "Mischief". Mischief is a home built plywood runabout, currently powered with a Torqeedo 4R outboard.? Specs are below:
LOA:? 13' 4" (without motor) Beam:? 5'9" Weight:? about 300-400# Draft:? approximately 6-7", with motor up. Theoretical Hull Speed:? 4.9mph
Motor:? Torqeedo 4R electric outboard (with remote steering) ? ? 48V, max 4000W input
Battery: ? Main battery bank:? 48V 50Ah eBike battery system from BTR (ordered on Amazon) (approx $900) ? Backup / get home battery:? ?48V 20Ah eBike Battery system from BTR? (under $500)
Both battery systems were bench tested.? For each test, the battery was fully charged, and then connected to sets of #9006 12V halogen light bulbs (4 bulbs in series gives a 48V load at about 4A).? Time and voltage were recorded periodically until the battery BMS shut down the voltage output from the battery.? Tests were conducted with 4, 8, and 16 bulbs (max was 4 parallel sets of 4 bulbs, approximately 800-900W).? I have the data on these tests, if anyone is interested.
At the lake!! First test was a static test of running the boat at the boat ramp (the motor needs to be in the water when running).? The motor was run at 1000W, and ran for approximately 45 min before the BMS dropped out, on the 20Ah battery.? The BMS dropped out at about 48V.? ?(The BMS on the 50Ah battery drops out at around 40V.)
The first "on the water" test lasted for approximately an hour, and used approximately 30-50% of the capacity of the 50Ah battery bank.
Performance of the boat consistently met expectations.? Handling was great.? As long as you're ok with a walking speed cruise - the boat performed very well.
?Volts Amps Watts MPH ?58.2? ? 5.15 300 ????????3 ?57.0 6.5 ????????370 ????????3.5 ?56.8 8.80 500 ???????? 3.9 ?57.7 10.4 600 ????????4 ?56.0 15.71 880 ????????4.9 ?57 ????????17.54 1000 5 ?56 ????????26.79 1500 5.7
I've attached a couple of pictures of the boat.? Please let me know if they don't come across.
If anyone would like more details, feel free to contact me.
John
|
Re: Lake Test - 13' plywood runabout with Torqeedo 4R, and 50Ah eBike battery bank
John,
It's a 48v motor. The prototype cat would plane with a 200 lb man with a 4 hp Yamaha gas. I'll probably end up with a lifepo4 pack that is self made due to the issues you identified. The bike packs intrigue me because I can carry them home for recharging versus having to put solar panels on the boat.
Jerry
On June 24, 2020, at 11:04 PM, "john via groups.io" <oak_box@...> wrote:
Jerry, Unfortunately, the wiring on the batteries is small.? Probably only good for 30A.? I currently have a 30Amp breaker between the battery and the motor to prevent overheating the wires coming out of the battery.
I was hopeful I would get a chance to test cranking up the motor at the dock when the boat was back on the trailer - but a barge was taking up two of the 3 lanes, and a line was starting to form, so I didn't have a chance to test what power level (and how long) would trip the breaker.
If the Chinese motor will put out 2kw worth of power, you should be fine.? ?I have tested a Catalina 22 with a Torqeedo 2T (2000W max).? At 1000-1200W, the C22 went about 4mph.? The C22 is a MUCH tougher shape to push than your catamaran, and MUCH heavier.? As always, if you want to go much faster, you'll need a LOT more power.
Dramatically increasing the power will get you a little more speed - but it's not sustainable.? Even if the battery wiring could handle 2500W (max rating of the battery - probably based on the wiring...) - it would exhaust the battery in under an hour.? ?I want at least 2-3 hours of cruising time for a power boat to be considered practical.? At 500-600W, I should be able to cruise at 3.5-4mph for 3-4 hours on a 50Ah battery.? At 500W for 3 hours, I'll have a nice cruise without overly exhausting the battery.
Do you have a place to mount a single motor (between the two pontoons?) You may also be challenged to find 24V eBike motors.
For my boat - the sweet spot for cruising seems to be around 600W - hitting around 4mph.? At that power level, a single 50Ah, 48V eBike battery should give me around 2 hours of cruising.? ?And then, if "something bad happens", I have the 20Ah backup battery that should give me around an hour of "get home" cruising.
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 10:38:16 PM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
Please cranky uppy to 4k watts and let us know results. I got a 2.3 kw chinese motor and building 12' catamaran dinghy. I think I can get by with the one motor but may need two. Thinking bike batteries like you did.
Jerry Barth
On June 24, 2020, at 3:45 PM, "john via " <oak_box=[email protected]> wrote:
On Monday, 6/22/20, I conducted my first on the water Lake trial with my electric conversion, "Mischief". Mischief is a home built plywood runabout, currently powered with a Torqeedo 4R outboard.? Specs are below:
LOA:? 13' 4" (without motor) Beam:? 5'9" Weight:? about 300-400# Draft:? approximately 6-7", with motor up. Theoretical Hull Speed:? 4.9mph
Motor:? Torqeedo 4R electric outboard (with remote steering) ? ? 48V, max 4000W input
Battery: ? Main battery bank:? 48V 50Ah eBike battery system from BTR (ordered on Amazon) (approx $900) ? Backup / get home battery:? ?48V 20Ah eBike Battery system from BTR? (under $500)
Both battery systems were bench tested.? For each test, the battery was fully charged, and then connected to sets of #9006 12V halogen light bulbs (4 bulbs in series gives a 48V load at about 4A).? Time and voltage were recorded periodically until the battery BMS shut down the voltage output from the battery.? Tests were conducted with 4, 8, and 16 bulbs (max was 4 parallel sets of 4 bulbs, approximately 800-900W).? I have the data on these tests, if anyone is interested.
At the lake!! First test was a static test of running the boat at the boat ramp (the motor needs to be in the water when running).? The motor was run at 1000W, and ran for approximately 45 min before the BMS dropped out, on the 20Ah battery.? The BMS dropped out at about 48V.? ?(The BMS on the 50Ah battery drops out at around 40V.)
The first "on the water" test lasted for approximately an hour, and used approximately 30-50% of the capacity of the 50Ah battery bank.
Performance of the boat consistently met expectations.? Handling was great.? As long as you're ok with a walking speed cruise - the boat performed very well.
?Volts Amps Watts MPH ?58.2? ? 5.15 300 ????????3 ?57.0 6.5 ????????370 ????????3.5 ?56.8 8.80 500 ???????? 3.9 ?57.7 10.4 600 ????????4 ?56.0 15.71 880 ????????4.9 ?57 ????????17.54 1000 5 ?56 ????????26.79 1500 5.7
I've attached a couple of pictures of the boat.? Please let me know if they don't come across.
If anyone would like more details, feel free to contact me.
John
|
Re: House systems - separate or together with drive system?
??Hello Ryan! Good name! I'm Ryan also.?
On my setup, I knew that my house requirements were sufficient to really need their own bank, so I have 2 qty Grp 27 deep cycles in parallel, and seperable by means of a 3-way batter switch. I did this for the reason previously stated, as to be able to isolate a starting battery for the main engine, in my case an old evinrude 140 converted from b.s. vro to mix.?
The 48v bank for auxillary propulsion is chargeable by 4 qty 100w 12v renology panels, and by a small honda 2200w inverter generator pushing a 48v 25a switching power supply, isolated from the solar cells by large blocking diodes, and being fed parallel into a large analogue relay controlled by a charge controller.?
I ended up getting an "intelligent" 25a 48v to 12v nominal converter and just putting it between them, and thus far it has worked just fine. It simply makes more sense, with my setup anyway, to charge the propulsion bank directly and have keep the house bank topped off. I have to be trying hard to pull 30a from it, except of course when starting the motor; and so the propulsion bank makes the cycle rate on my house bank pretty much non existent when at anchor, and when underway, between the solar array and the little genny, it keeps my big bank pretty stable unless I am at full throttle on the electric outboard and running everything imaginable on the house bank
Make sure that the grounds of the 2 banks are grounded (negative) common and bonded to the metal components of the hull, for safety and galvanic reasons.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 10:45 AM, Reuben Trane via groups.io <rjtrane@...> wrote: Here's the link for the chargers I purchased - 10A each - I feel since they're on 24/7 and there's power in the battery that the small amp version works for me. About $105 plus shipping - took about a week to arrive.
|
Re: Lake Test - 13' plywood runabout with Torqeedo 4R, and 50Ah eBike battery bank
Was that a question for Jerry?
On the plywood boat, I'm using a stock Torqeedo 4R, with a stock Torqeedo prop (they use the same prop on both the 4R and the 2R).
The Torqeedo prop is well designed and fairly high pitch.? ?It does well, though I would like to see Torqeedo put out a version that was designed for a bit more speed.
Has anyone tried using an airplane prop on a Torqeedo?? That might be an interesting experiment!
On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 10:45:29 AM CDT, sw via groups.io <v1opps@...> wrote:
You use the Newport Chinese motor or?? Do you use model airplane pusher prop?
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 23:04, john via groups.io <oak_box@...> wrote:
Jerry, Unfortunately, the wiring on the batteries is small.? Probably only good for 30A.? I currently have a 30Amp breaker between the battery and the motor to prevent overheating the wires coming out of the battery.
I was hopeful I would get a chance to test cranking up the motor at the dock when the boat was back on the trailer - but a barge was taking up two of the 3 lanes, and a line was starting to form, so I didn't have a chance to test what power level (and how long) would trip the breaker.
If the Chinese motor will put out 2kw worth of power, you should be fine.? ?I have tested a Catalina 22 with a Torqeedo 2T (2000W max).? At 1000-1200W, the C22 went about 4mph.? The C22 is a MUCH tougher shape to push than your catamaran, and MUCH heavier.? As always, if you want to go much faster, you'll need a LOT more power.
Dramatically increasing the power will get you a little more speed - but it's not sustainable.? Even if the battery wiring could handle 2500W (max rating of the battery - probably based on the wiring...) - it would exhaust the battery in under an hour.? ?I want at least 2-3 hours of cruising time for a power boat to be considered practical.? At 500-600W, I should be able to cruise at 3.5-4mph for 3-4 hours on a 50Ah battery.? At 500W for 3 hours, I'll have a nice cruise without overly exhausting the battery.
Do you have a place to mount a single motor (between the two pontoons?) You may also be challenged to find 24V eBike motors.
For my boat - the sweet spot for cruising seems to be around 600W - hitting around 4mph.? At that power level, a single 50Ah, 48V eBike battery should give me around 2 hours of cruising.? ?And then, if "something bad happens", I have the 20Ah backup battery that should give me around an hour of "get home" cruising.
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 10:38:16 PM CDT, shredderf16 <shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
Please cranky uppy to 4k watts and let us know results. I got a 2.3 kw chinese motor and building 12' catamaran dinghy. I think I can get by with the one motor but may need two. Thinking bike batteries like you did.
Jerry Barth
On June 24, 2020, at 3:45 PM, "john via groups.io" <oak_box@...> wrote: On Monday, 6/22/20, I conducted my first on the water Lake trial with my electric conversion, "Mischief". Mischief is a home built plywood runabout, currently powered with a Torqeedo 4R outboard.? Specs are below:
LOA:? 13' 4" (without motor) Beam:? 5'9" Weight:? about 300-400# Draft:? approximately 6-7", with motor up. Theoretical Hull Speed:? 4.9mph
Motor:? Torqeedo 4R electric outboard (with remote steering) ? ? 48V, max 4000W input
Battery: ? Main battery bank:? 48V 50Ah eBike battery system from BTR (ordered on Amazon) (approx $900) ? Backup / get home battery:? ?48V 20Ah eBike Battery system from BTR? (under $500)
Both battery systems were bench tested.? For each test, the battery was fully charged, and then connected to sets of #9006 12V halogen light bulbs (4 bulbs in series gives a 48V load at about 4A).? Time and voltage were recorded periodically until the battery BMS shut down the voltage output from the battery.? Tests were conducted with 4, 8, and 16 bulbs (max was 4 parallel sets of 4 bulbs, approximately 800-900W).? I have the data on these tests, if anyone is interested.
At the lake!! First test was a static test of running the boat at the boat ramp (the motor needs to be in the water when running).? The motor was run at 1000W, and ran for approximately 45 min before the BMS dropped out, on the 20Ah battery.? The BMS dropped out at about 48V.? ?(The BMS on the 50Ah battery drops out at around 40V.)
The first "on the water" test lasted for approximately an hour, and used approximately 30-50% of the capacity of the 50Ah battery bank.
Performance of the boat consistently met expectations.? Handling was great.? As long as you're ok with a walking speed cruise - the boat performed very well.
?Volts Amps Watts MPH ?58.2? ? 5.15 300 ????????3 ?57.0 6.5 ????????370 ????????3.5 ?56.8 8.80 500 ???????? 3.9 ?57.7 10.4 600 ????????4 ?56.0 15.71 880 ????????4.9 ?57 ????????17.54 1000 5 ?56 ????????26.79 1500 5.7
I've attached a couple of pictures of the boat.? Please let me know if they don't come across.
If anyone would like more details, feel free to contact me.
John
|
Re: Lake Test - 13' plywood runabout with Torqeedo 4R, and 50Ah eBike battery bank
You use the Newport Chinese motor or?? Do you use model airplane pusher prop?
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 23:04, john via groups.io <oak_box@...> wrote:
Jerry, Unfortunately, the wiring on the batteries is small.? Probably only good for 30A.? I currently have a 30Amp breaker between the battery and the motor to prevent overheating the wires coming out of the battery.
I was hopeful I would get a chance to test cranking up the motor at the dock when the boat was back on the trailer - but a barge was taking up two of the 3 lanes, and a line was starting to form, so I didn't have a chance to test what power level (and how long) would trip the breaker.
If the Chinese motor will put out 2kw worth of power, you should be fine.? ?I have tested a Catalina 22 with a Torqeedo 2T (2000W max).? At 1000-1200W, the C22 went about 4mph.? The C22 is a MUCH tougher shape to push than your catamaran, and MUCH heavier.? As always, if you want to go much faster, you'll need a LOT more power.
Dramatically increasing the power will get you a little more speed - but it's not sustainable.? Even if the battery wiring could handle 2500W (max rating of the battery - probably based on the wiring...) - it would exhaust the battery in under an hour.? ?I want at least 2-3 hours of cruising time for a power boat to be considered practical.? At 500-600W, I should be able to cruise at 3.5-4mph for 3-4 hours on a 50Ah battery.? At 500W for 3 hours, I'll have a nice cruise without overly exhausting the battery.
Do you have a place to mount a single motor (between the two pontoons?) You may also be challenged to find 24V eBike motors.
For my boat - the sweet spot for cruising seems to be around 600W - hitting around 4mph.? At that power level, a single 50Ah, 48V eBike battery should give me around 2 hours of cruising.? ?And then, if "something bad happens", I have the 20Ah backup battery that should give me around an hour of "get home" cruising.
On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 10:38:16 PM CDT, shredderf16 <shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
Please cranky uppy to 4k watts and let us know results. I got a 2.3 kw chinese motor and building 12' catamaran dinghy. I think I can get by with the one motor but may need two. Thinking bike batteries like you did.
Jerry Barth
On June 24, 2020, at 3:45 PM, "john via groups.io" <oak_box@...> wrote: On Monday, 6/22/20, I conducted my first on the water Lake trial with my electric conversion, "Mischief". Mischief is a home built plywood runabout, currently powered with a Torqeedo 4R outboard.? Specs are below:
LOA:? 13' 4" (without motor) Beam:? 5'9" Weight:? about 300-400# Draft:? approximately 6-7", with motor up. Theoretical Hull Speed:? 4.9mph
Motor:? Torqeedo 4R electric outboard (with remote steering) ? ? 48V, max 4000W input
Battery: ? Main battery bank:? 48V 50Ah eBike battery system from BTR (ordered on Amazon) (approx $900) ? Backup / get home battery:? ?48V 20Ah eBike Battery system from BTR? (under $500)
Both battery systems were bench tested.? For each test, the battery was fully charged, and then connected to sets of #9006 12V halogen light bulbs (4 bulbs in series gives a 48V load at about 4A).? Time and voltage were recorded periodically until the battery BMS shut down the voltage output from the battery.? Tests were conducted with 4, 8, and 16 bulbs (max was 4 parallel sets of 4 bulbs, approximately 800-900W).? I have the data on these tests, if anyone is interested.
At the lake!! First test was a static test of running the boat at the boat ramp (the motor needs to be in the water when running).? The motor was run at 1000W, and ran for approximately 45 min before the BMS dropped out, on the 20Ah battery.? The BMS dropped out at about 48V.? ?(The BMS on the 50Ah battery drops out at around 40V.)
The first "on the water" test lasted for approximately an hour, and used approximately 30-50% of the capacity of the 50Ah battery bank.
Performance of the boat consistently met expectations.? Handling was great.? As long as you're ok with a walking speed cruise - the boat performed very well.
?Volts Amps Watts MPH ?58.2? ? 5.15 300 ????????3 ?57.0 6.5 ????????370 ????????3.5 ?56.8 8.80 500 ???????? 3.9 ?57.7 10.4 600 ????????4 ?56.0 15.71 880 ????????4.9 ?57 ????????17.54 1000 5 ?56 ????????26.79 1500 5.7
I've attached a couple of pictures of the boat.? Please let me know if they don't come across.
If anyone would like more details, feel free to contact me.
John
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Re: House systems - separate or together with drive system?
Here's the link for the chargers I purchased - 10A each - I feel since they're on 24/7 and there's power in the battery that the small amp version works for me. About $105 plus shipping - took about a week to arrive.
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Re: House systems - separate or together with drive system?
Here¡¯s my latest thinking for my 12m eCat. I have my main 48VDC LFP pack charged by solar and a 12v battery for house loads. The 12v has a stand alone solar panel and controller PLUS a 48v/12v charger I just installed. I also use dc/dc converter/power supplies for additional 12v needs.
I can get you info in the charger if you¡¯d like.?
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Re: House systems - separate or together with drive system?
There is added complexity either way you go. The right answer takes into account the peak and continuous loads for the 12v. For me, the biggest load is the anchor windlass at <80 amps. So, a pair of Thunderstruck 50 amp DC-DC converters was the simplest approach. BTW, my propulsion batteries are 96v. If my peak current had to include a starter motor then DC-DC converters probably wouldn't be as good a choice and a separate 12v battery + charger would be better. I do have a portable 12v battery plus charger for my tender that can also be tied in for 12v emergency power should the main system fail.
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Re: House systems - separate or together with drive system?
Ryan,
How much house power do you need, and what is the relative balance of motor power vs. house power?
If the house requirements are tiny, then running a converter to regulate the 48V down to 12V may be a good answer.? On my small boat, this is what I have done - at least for now.
If your house requirements are large, then getting a sufficient regulator becomes more of an issue.
You might also consider how "critical" each supply is.? One reason house banks are kept separate from starting battery banks on many boats is to prevent the owner from accidentally running down the battery so far that he/she is no longer able to start the main engine.? ?In your case - would you want separation of the banks so that you didn't accidentally run down the power so much that you couldn't get home?
If you have a backup generator - then that is much less of a problem.
One other option is that if your house needs are small enough, you could consider a separate house bank - but keep it at 48V and use a regulator anyway.? That would allow you to have the house bank and the motor bank both at 48V, so that your house bank could be a "backup" for your motor, if anything bad happened to your main motor bank (i.e. if you ran it down unexpectedly).
Ultimately, it's a judgement call for you.? As with so many engineering problems - there are many answers.? Some less efficient, and often no single obvious perfect answer.
John
On Thursday, June 25, 2020, 12:46:09 AM CDT, Ryan Sweet <ryan@...> wrote:
Wow, I apologize for not editing for autocorrect typos. Hopefully the ones below make sense in context.
> On Jun 24, 2020, at 22:42, Ryan Sweet via groups.io <ryan= [email protected]> wrote: >
> ?I am at the beginning of a conversion for a 32¡¯ ketch, and I have the 10kw thunderstruck kit, charger, reduction, and battery bank all working on my bench under artificial load. She will be at a dock soon where I can pull the diesel and begin refitting with the EV drive.
>
> The boat has an existing house system with four 6v golf cart batteries in 2p2s for both the 12v house loads and the starting motor, along with two 50w solar panels and a charge controller. During the summer in the Pacific NW the solar keeps up with the house loads at anchor all summer, she is usually at a dock plugged in for much of the winter.
>
> I originally intended to leave all the existing 12v system in place, and keep the 48v ev system separate, but I¡¯m realizing that once the old motor comes out, it¡¯s really prime time to simplify as many things as possible, so I¡¯m wondering about the necessary equipment and pros/cons of running the house load off of the same battery bank as the EV (right now I am working the EV with 4x 12v 200ah AGM in 4s).?
>
> What becomes complicated or inefficient about running them together (with a 48v to 12v step down) vs having separate systems?
>
> I halfway thought that I would try leaving the existing house system as-is, adding the EV with the AGM bank separately, and if it is all working well, then switching the EV drove to a m bank of lifepo4 and rewiring the AGM bank in 4p at 12v,? replacing the older system which is nearing end of life in the next few years anyway.? But I also am drawn to the simplicity of only having one set of batteries to worry about for all loads.
>
> What are the practical considerations that you guys have encountered for each scenario?
> My boat will mostly be used for crushing near shore, likely with power though most winters, and at anchor or underway in summers.
>
>
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I have a Creighton 32 foot boat, which is fitted with a electric engine (the engine came out of a milk float) The engine works very well.
BUT the controller only has one speed full on forward, and full on backwards. I can not control the speed, the onlyway of slowing it down is to turn the engine of, but this is dangerous as then I loss rudder control.
What I need to know is there a better controller out there that I can control the speed of my boat.
I need help, I'm in the Merseyside area.?
Thanks Graham
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Re: House systems - separate or together with drive system?
Wow, I apologize for not editing for autocorrect typos. Hopefully the ones below make sense in context.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jun 24, 2020, at 22:42, Ryan Sweet via groups.io <ryan@...> wrote:
?I am at the beginning of a conversion for a 32¡¯ ketch, and I have the 10kw thunderstruck kit, charger, reduction, and battery bank all working on my bench under artificial load. She will be at a dock soon where I can pull the diesel and begin refitting with the EV drive.
The boat has an existing house system with four 6v golf cart batteries in 2p2s for both the 12v house loads and the starting motor, along with two 50w solar panels and a charge controller. During the summer in the Pacific NW the solar keeps up with the house loads at anchor all summer, she is usually at a dock plugged in for much of the winter.
I originally intended to leave all the existing 12v system in place, and keep the 48v ev system separate, but I¡¯m realizing that once the old motor comes out, it¡¯s really prime time to simplify as many things as possible, so I¡¯m wondering about the necessary equipment and pros/cons of running the house load off of the same battery bank as the EV (right now I am working the EV with 4x 12v 200ah AGM in 4s).
What becomes complicated or inefficient about running them together (with a 48v to 12v step down) vs having separate systems?
I halfway thought that I would try leaving the existing house system as-is, adding the EV with the AGM bank separately, and if it is all working well, then switching the EV drove to a m bank of lifepo4 and rewiring the AGM bank in 4p at 12v, replacing the older system which is nearing end of life in the next few years anyway. But I also am drawn to the simplicity of only having one set of batteries to worry about for all loads.
What are the practical considerations that you guys have encountered for each scenario?
My boat will mostly be used for crushing near shore, likely with power though most winters, and at anchor or underway in summers.
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Reuben Trane
Randy Cain