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Re: 15kW electric motors for Sailing Catamaran
Have you talked to thunderstruck motors in ca?
On Sunday, April 26, 2020, 05:17:24 AM PDT, DAN HENNIS <dhennis@...> wrote:
uhmm, forgive my intrusion here, but your criteria sound a bit optimistic.? Sorry if this view is off. I appreciate the optimism though.? I'll gladly sit back now and watch the other armchair engineers add their 2-cents worth, pro and con.? Love to see the discussion though. Cheers,? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Cave <rob@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [electricboats] 15kW electric motors for Sailing Catamaran Greetings, Reposting this topic the new group location with some photos. Hopefully some feedback or suggestions., Looking for advice on a 15kW 48V electric motors to fit to a Yanmar SD25 sail drive (new model of the SD20). Application is an under construction 52' sailing catamaran. Some broad boat parameters: Ocean going world cruising catamaran ¨C composite epoxy structure. L 52¡¯, Draft 2¡¯ Weight approx. 8500kg / 19,000lb Full electric propulsion, galley and other services including hot water. Motors retractable: 2 x 15kw 48v + regen Battery bank: circa 16kw 48v House loads: 24V DC ¨C Estimated peak approx. 3kw Solar: circa 3kW. 16kW 48v DC gen set. The plan is to fit motor to a Yanmar sail drive SD25 and complete unit be retractable. This involves a wet lower tube and a watertight inner tube with hull closure plate below the prop ¨C motor and sail drive leg fitted to this at their join. We should be able to couple motor shaft to SD25 upper gear box shaft with a coupler and bolt units together without too many modifications. Be great to hear of others experience with this. We are trying to limit motor voltage to 48V ¨C makes batteries & solar easier plus ability to share bank via DC The boat will be light and shallow draft = easily driven. A similar 62¡¯ catamaran was fitted with 2 x OV SD15s and achieved over 9 knots in flat water so we believe 12 to 15kW motors will be adequate. According to Vic Prop boat specs, twin 12kW (16hp) motors with RPM max of 2200 (2:1 gear reduction on SD25 so prop speed 1100 max.) & 3 blade 15" x 13" prop will yield a top speed of 8.92 kts which is fine. We have looked at turn-key offerings from Bell marine, Oceanvolt & Electric yachts but none tick all our boxes so would like to have a crack at customizing our own solution. Some motor options Ive stumbled across include: 1. Motenergy ME1302 or ME1616 Liquid cooled 2. Parker GVM210-100-DPW 3. Go cart or Elec motorcycle motors: Revolt, Zero, ??? Bearing in mind 48V supply and max RPM of around 2400, be grateful to get your thoughts on best motor and associated controller and any tips or constructive suggestions for our project.
Dan Hennis CTR Services P.O. Box 254 14237 FR 1155 Cassville, MO? 65625-0254 417-396-0228 |
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Re: 15kW electric motors for Sailing Catamaran
uhmm, forgive my intrusion here, but your criteria sound a bit optimistic.? Sorry if this view is off. I appreciate the optimism though.? I'll gladly sit back now and watch the other armchair engineers add their 2-cents worth, pro and con.? Love to see the discussion though. Cheers,? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Cave <rob@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [electricboats] 15kW electric motors for Sailing Catamaran Greetings, Reposting this topic the new group location with some photos. Hopefully some feedback or suggestions., Looking for advice on a 15kW 48V electric motors to fit to a Yanmar SD25 sail drive (new model of the SD20). Application is an under construction 52' sailing catamaran. Some broad boat parameters: Ocean going world cruising catamaran ¨C composite epoxy structure. L 52¡¯, Draft 2¡¯ Weight approx. 8500kg / 19,000lb Full electric propulsion, galley and other services including hot water. Motors retractable: 2 x 15kw 48v + regen Battery bank: circa 16kw 48v House loads: 24V DC ¨C Estimated peak approx. 3kw Solar: circa 3kW. 16kW 48v DC gen set. The plan is to fit motor to a Yanmar sail drive SD25 and complete unit be retractable. This involves a wet lower tube and a watertight inner tube with hull closure plate below the prop ¨C motor and sail drive leg fitted to this at their join. We should be able to couple motor shaft to SD25 upper gear box shaft with a coupler and bolt units together without too many modifications. Be great to hear of others experience with this. We are trying to limit motor voltage to 48V ¨C makes batteries & solar easier plus ability to share bank via DC The boat will be light and shallow draft = easily driven. A similar 62¡¯ catamaran was fitted with 2 x OV SD15s and achieved over 9 knots in flat water so we believe 12 to 15kW motors will be adequate. According to Vic Prop boat specs, twin 12kW (16hp) motors with RPM max of 2200 (2:1 gear reduction on SD25 so prop speed 1100 max.) & 3 blade 15" x 13" prop will yield a top speed of 8.92 kts which is fine. We have looked at turn-key offerings from Bell marine, Oceanvolt & Electric yachts but none tick all our boxes so would like to have a crack at customizing our own solution. Some motor options Ive stumbled across include: 1. Motenergy ME1302 or ME1616 Liquid cooled 2. Parker GVM210-100-DPW 3. Go cart or Elec motorcycle motors: Revolt, Zero, ??? Bearing in mind 48V supply and max RPM of around 2400, be grateful to get your thoughts on best motor and associated controller and any tips or constructive suggestions for our project.
Dan Hennis CTR Services P.O. Box 254 14237 FR 1155 Cassville, MO? 65625-0254 417-396-0228 |
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Re: 15kW electric motors for Sailing Catamaran
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Rob, Not sure this will help you much but first off I envy your obvious budget. The boat pictures look great and I love the lifting concept. ? My Wife Monika and I bought a 1990 Catana 42 in 2013. The survey showed the boat was structurally sound but everything was very dated and neglected. I¡¯ve helped build, worked on, and done deliveries on boats for over 40 years so I knew we could fix what needed to be done. We¡¯ve had some surprises along the way but now after a 6+ year refit (1 winter in the water at Tampa Florida and 5.5 years on the hard in Saint Marys GA.(We do take summers off)), We are on our shakedown cruise in the Florida Keys. Timing sucked but It is a great place for us to be during this craziness. ? During the trip from The Georgetown Yacht Basin on the Chesapeake (where we bought her) to Tampa Bay FL, ?I caught a crab pot Off the tip of FL. and ended up breaking a CRANKSHAFT on the Port engine. During the research of looking for a replacement I came across Thunderstruck. After a bunch of emails, pricing, looking at the budget, and advice from some very knowledgeable friends, I decided to go with an electric motor for a Port side engine anyway. As this side is also the master stateroom side, getting diesel, oil, heat, and noise out seemed like a good thing. Even with AGM Lead acid batteries the estimated cost for the replacement was a bit less than a Beta Diesel. All up when finished I came in about even with the Beta cost and about 100 lbs. lighter. If I can ever afford LI Batts the weight will be even better. ? With The current system that ignored any attempt at getting more efficiency (budget project) the current 100 Amp hour bank will move the boat at about 4 knots for close to ? hour. More than enough to anchor, maneuver a bit, etc. We currently use the Starboard rust bucket 27 HP (when new) VP for longer distances as it will push us at 4 knots until it says enough for today, let me rest. The current draw for the electric to do that is over 100 amps per hour and I cannot put enough power back into the batteries with the chargers I have to keep that level of use happy. I can push the boat (we need to go on a couple thousand pound diet) at just over 2 knots with the Generator running without depleting the batteries. We¡¯ve done this a couple times when the wind died and it seems to work well. Plus the NL Gen just sips fuel. ? So far I am extremely pleased with how things are working. ? The attached document shows the engine room. ? Good luck with your project. Cheers, Ric Sanders ? ? ? Ric Sanders 1+562.505.7920 ? |
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15kW electric motors for Sailing Catamaran
Greetings,
Reposting this topic the new group location with some photos. Hopefully some feedback or suggestions., Looking for advice on a 15kW 48V electric motors to fit to a Yanmar SD25 sail drive (new model of the SD20). Application is an under construction 52' sailing catamaran. Some broad boat parameters: Ocean going world cruising catamaran ¨C composite epoxy structure. L 52¡¯, Draft 2¡¯ Weight approx. 8500kg / 19,000lb Full electric propulsion, galley and other services including hot water. Motors retractable: 2 x 15kw 48v + regen Battery bank: circa 16kw 48v House loads: 24V DC ¨C Estimated peak approx. 3kw Solar: circa 3kW. 16kW 48v DC gen set. The plan is to fit motor to a Yanmar sail drive SD25 and complete unit be retractable. This involves a wet lower tube and a watertight inner tube with hull closure plate below the prop ¨C motor and sail drive leg fitted to this at their join. We should be able to couple motor shaft to SD25 upper gear box shaft with a coupler and bolt units together without too many modifications. Be great to hear of others experience with this. We are trying to limit motor voltage to 48V ¨C makes batteries & solar easier plus ability to share bank via DC The boat will be light and shallow draft = easily driven. A similar 62¡¯ catamaran was fitted with 2 x OV SD15s and achieved over 9 knots in flat water so we believe 12 to 15kW motors will be adequate. According to Vic Prop boat specs, twin 12kW (16hp) motors with RPM max of 2200 (2:1 gear reduction on SD25 so prop speed 1100 max.) & 3 blade 15" x 13" prop will yield a top speed of 8.92 kts which is fine. We have looked at turn-key offerings from Bell marine, Oceanvolt & Electric yachts but none tick all our boxes so would like to have a crack at customizing our own solution. Some motor options Ive stumbled across include: 1. Motenergy ME1302 or ME1616 Liquid cooled 2. Parker GVM210-100-DPW 3. Go cart or Elec motorcycle motors: Revolt, Zero, ??? Bearing in mind 48V supply and max RPM of around 2400, be grateful to get your thoughts on best motor and associated controller and any tips or constructive suggestions for our project. |
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Re: CAN to NMEA2000 motor data
LARRY: I misunderstood.? You're saying that your 12v boxes are 4s4p packs [16 cells per box], and that you've connected four of them in series to achieve the 51.2 nominal volts for the pack.? That would mean the total number of cells in your full pack is 64.? Do I have that right?? Based on my limited knowledge of the subject, then, I would call that a 16s4p pack [16s x 3.2 = 51.2; 4p x 90Ah = 360Ah].? Do you run 16 leads out of your BMS, or are you monitoring on the individual cell level?
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Re: CAN to NMEA2000 motor data
Hi Jerry:? Really interesting link; thanks!? I've been communicating lately with a supplier on Alibaba that's quoted $1,939 for sixteen (16) first quality CALB SE200I prismatic cells, including customs clearing and shipping via sea freight to Michigan.? [Copper bus bars are always included with authentic CALB cells.]? Match them up with a BMS from Thunderstruck Motors at $450, and there's still room in a $3k budget for instrumentation.
For anyone contemplating ordering goods from China, I advise caution because I have been burned bythis personally.? Contemplate needing to return 200 pounds of "Dangerous Goods" to China because you find the product isn't consistent with the sales rep's assurances, and you'll get the idea. [-tv] Tom VanderMeulen |
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Re: CAN to NMEA2000 motor data
LARRY: Something seems amiss with your description.? You describe having built four, 12v batteries with 3.2v 90Ah cells.? So those cells must be connected in series to achieve the 12v, and yielding 90Ah capacity.? Then you say you connected those four 12v packs in series to achieve 48v, with one BMS for the whole system.? This sounds similar to the system I put together to drive my Thunderstruck Motors 10Kw sailboat kit.? But because your batteries are all connected into a single series to yield 48v, I believe the capacity would still be 90Ah and not the 360Ah you suggest.? The way I'm understanding what you've put together, your system is in fact a 16s1p battery pack, not a 4s4p pack.? A 4s4p pack would have 360Ah, but at 12 volts.
[-tv] Tom VanderMeulen |
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Re: 15 KW DC l electric conversikon
Jim Dog: It's not prudent to believe that your sales rep in China has your best interests at heart, or that they understand your requirements, or usage scenarios, no matter how thoroughly you feel you've explained it to them.? Prismatic cells do NOT necessarily need "laser welding" but I've communicated with vendors on Alibaba who claim that it is.? Perhaps that's true for them, but it's not universal by any means!? Most of the prismatic cells you'll want to use on your boat have terminals that take M8 (roughly 5/16 inch) bolts.? It's very simple.? Building your own battery pack out of 138 cylindrical cells [24s6p] seems like a project worth avoiding.? You can find a BMS with 24 measurement leads, but monitoring every cell in such a pack seems pretty daunting.
Building a 32 cell pack out of CALB 180Ah prismatics [16s2p] would provide ~18Kw [15Kw usable] of energy and be supportable by off the shelf BMS units from the various suppliers of parts for EV's.? You could go with 16 large capacity Winstons to make it even simpler.? But, if you're looking to blaze new trails, ignore everything I've said! [-tv] Tom VanderMeulen |
Ric Sanders
THOMAS VANDERMEULEN