Re: Unable to connect to IGate server
Hello Sepehr,
The password you need to generate and use is just for your callsign
(No SSID).? In the direwolf.conf file, I would configure say for the
"-6" SSID:
--
IGLOGIN KI6ZHD-6 <the computed passcode just for "KI6ZHD" (no
dash+ssid)>
--
If you're not sure on the passcode you have, google around for
"APRS-IS passcode generator" and you will find many.
--David
KI6ZHD
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi,
?
I am trying to set up an IGat. Everything seems to be
working. Packets are being decoded. The connection to the gate
servers is the only thing that isn't working.?
?
Connect to IGate server noam.aprs2.net
(192.104.234.219) failed.
It's been running for a couple of hours now and has tried
half a dozen IP addresses so far. I've got a good internet
connection and can ping those servers. One thing that I am not
too sure about is the APRS-IS password. Should I get a password
for my call sign or should my call sign be appended with the
SSID? Aside from the password, everything else seems fine in the
config file.?
?
Any help or tips would be appreciated.
?
Sepehr N6IRN
|
Unable to connect to IGate server
Hi,
?
I am trying to set up an IGat. Everything seems to be working. Packets are being decoded. The connection to the gate servers is the only thing that isn't working.?
?
Connect to IGate server noam.aprs2.net (192.104.234.219) failed.
It's been running for a couple of hours now and has tried half a dozen IP addresses so far. I've got a good internet connection and can ping those servers. One thing that I am not too sure about is the APRS-IS password. Should I get a password for my call sign or should my call sign be appended with the SSID? Aside from the password, everything else seems fine in the config file.?
?
Any help or tips would be appreciated.
?
Sepehr N6IRN
|
Re: Unable to get Direwolf to connect to IC-7300
Hello Bob,
direwolf executes and says ready for KISS connection.?
However, I do get this message
?
Line 268 is commented out
Line 268 is NOT commented out.? You have:
--
#?????? - the "AGW TCPIP Socket Interface" - default port 8000
#?????? - KISS protocol over TCP socket - default port 8001
??????? - KISS TNC via serial port
#
--
What you want is:
--
#?????? - the "AGW TCPIP Socket Interface" - default port 8000
#?????? - KISS protocol over TCP socket - default port 8001
#?????? - KISS TNC via serial port
#
--
Next, you have:
--
ADEVICE "ICOM IC-7300 "ICOM IC-7300
# Example: To use the USB Audio, use a command like this with
# the input and output device numbers.? (Remove the # comment
character.)
ADEVICE USB
--
You have two ADEVICE lines enabled.? On the first example, ou
haven't terminated the INPUT and the OUTPUT items with a trailing
".? That said, I don't know if this setting of "ICOM IC-7300" but if
that is what Direwolf showed when you first ran it on Windows, it
should be ok.? The second line also might work for you but it's
super generic and it might get confused with your Flex radio.? I
would recommend to disable this second ADEVICE line and use the
first.
For your 300bps modem, why did you pick the "D" modem?
--
MODEM 300 1600:1800 7@30 /4 D
--
Also, the IC-7300 does not transmit after issuing the
direwolf -x a command
For VARA and Winlink, what setting do you use for asserting PTT??
Asserting the RTS signal on COM8?? If so, you might try variations
such as:
--
PTT COM1 -RTS
--
or
--
PTT COM1 -RTS -DTR
--
At the end of your direwolf.conf file, you have a few questionable
settings:
--
TXDELAY 50
--
This is 500ms which seems excessive though I don't own a IC7300.? I
would recommend to start at say 25 (meaning 250ms) and work your way
down unless you have other things in the TX chain like amplifiers,
etc. that need more time.
--
TXTAIL 30
--
This is also excessive.? I would bring this down to say 10.
I would also recommend to enable FX.25 as more and more 300bps HF
stations are enabling it and it can make a huge difference.? Under
the Direwolf channel 0 section, add something like:
--
CHANNEL 0
FX25TX 16
--
The level of protection is variable and costs more overhead.? You'll
want to tune this based upon your station / the remote station / DX
conditions, etc
Finally, what HF stations are you trying to connect to?? Most are
NOT Winlink station but either PBBSes running on hardware TNCs or
full packet BBSes.? To interact with those, you'll need a packet
terminal program.? There are several out there for Windows so here
is a short list:
??
--David
KI6ZHD
|
Unable to get Direwolf to connect to IC-7300
I have been running my IC-7300 with a VARA modem and Winlink on HF for some time.? I would like to be able to operate HF packet using Direwolf and the VARA modem.? I downloaded installed, and modified the direwolf.conf file.
I have attached my direwolf.conf.?
When I run the command direwolf -x a
direwolf executes and says ready for KISS connection.? However, I do get this message
?
Line 268 is commented out
# ? ?OBEACON ? ? ? ?- for an object report (usually some other entity)
Also, the IC-7300 does not transmit after issuing the direwolf -x a command
?
I would appreciate assistance on properly configuring the station for HF Packet.
?
Bob, KN4HH
|
There are some APRS-based messaging services that
offer email and email like services:
??? EMAIL2:
??? APRSLink (Winlink APRS):
?There are also other offerings you can stand up for personal
email, etc too.
--David
KI6ZHD
On 01/18/2025 07:35 PM, Bob Cameron via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thanks for the explain Andrew,
Some years ago I looked at its use on HF in VK, because I am a
remote area permanent traveller and also beacon my position on
the same 30m frequency. This is when I found inet>RF
messaging had been blocked here. This is more of an
education/understanding question, but I have also had some
stations message me via ISS, so I wanted a way to reply.
I have however received some of my messages on Xastir via the
Internet connection, so given I don't connect that often they
must have been cached or held somewhere. Could the server I was
using (aunz.aprs2.net) have been configured to hold or cache
them?
Cheers Bob VK2YQA
On 19/1/25 10:17, Andrew P. via
groups.io wrote:
Greetings.
You're not going to be happy with some of the things you're about to learn about APRS text messaging.
For text messages relayed through APRS-IS, the sender doesn't know and can't specify the recipient's position on the APRS-IS anyway. All I-gates in range of the sender will forward the text message to the backbone; the backbone will de-duplicate those forwards. Any I-gates currently on the backbone who have heard and reported the recipient _beaconing_ within some time interval (don't know the exact interval) will be sent the text message on the assumption those are Tx-capable I-gates who can forward the message to the final recipient. Other I-gates won't receive the message (unless they are using filters to ask for additional traffic and the message matches the filters).
The text message is transmitted once by those Tx-capable I-gates as soon as it is received and there is clear channel at the I-gate. If the sender sends it again, the suitable I-gates (according to updated received traffic history at the time of the resend) will forward it again.
There is no place that messages are "held"; if the recipient isn't listening at the time the message is transmitted, they won't get it. Period. The reason that aprs.fi always has it is because aprs.fi is always connected 24/7/365 and therefore never misses any traffic that makes it to the APRS-IS backbone.
WHO-IS (and ANSRVR and others) are APRS-IS clients that have no RF capability, so they can only be accessed by stations either directly connected to the APRS-IS, or in range of a Tx-capable I-gate. They are all robots with a specified response behavior for a type of message sent to them.
Hope this explains. Sorry for the disappointing news.
Andrew, KA2DDO
author of YAAC (an APRS-IS client and I-gate, among other things)
________________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Bob Cameron via groups.io <bob3bob3@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2025 5:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [direwolf] APRS messaging query
Looking to understand some obscure things about APRS messaging.
In Understanding-APRS-Packets.pdf on John's aprsspec github site. (Tnx John!)
RF to RF on same channel, well understood. Also understood is that the delivery will be retried until timed out, an ack is received or send cancelled.
RF to RF via an IGate says can be done, but how does one know the recipients current RF location? Is it just automatic when WIDE hops are used? Also could the recipients closest RF TX site be explicitly defined in the digi path?
The WHOIS server example is a bit confusing, but in essence appears to be a robot data response.
My main question though is how does one poll for a message "being held not deliverable" in IS? (Mainly I think in VK as Inet>RF messaging seems disabled) I use Xastir to only display/list the RF channel and usually leave the Internet Server interface down, but now wonder if up and the filter parameter t/m/VK* will work? (I have TX disabled on this interface too.)
I know too there is a facility to send messages from the CLI, but is there a method to pull down "held" messages?
Tnxs Bob VK2YQA
|
Thanks for the explain Andrew,
Some years ago I looked at its use on HF in VK, because I am a
remote area permanent traveller and also beacon my position on the
same 30m frequency. This is when I found inet>RF messaging had
been blocked here. This is more of an education/understanding
question, but I have also had some stations message me via ISS, so
I wanted a way to reply.
I have however received some of my messages on Xastir via the
Internet connection, so given I don't connect that often they must
have been cached or held somewhere. Could the server I was using
(aunz.aprs2.net) have been configured to hold or cache them?
Cheers Bob VK2YQA
On 19/1/25 10:17, Andrew P. via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Greetings.
You're not going to be happy with some of the things you're about to learn about APRS text messaging.
For text messages relayed through APRS-IS, the sender doesn't know and can't specify the recipient's position on the APRS-IS anyway. All I-gates in range of the sender will forward the text message to the backbone; the backbone will de-duplicate those forwards. Any I-gates currently on the backbone who have heard and reported the recipient _beaconing_ within some time interval (don't know the exact interval) will be sent the text message on the assumption those are Tx-capable I-gates who can forward the message to the final recipient. Other I-gates won't receive the message (unless they are using filters to ask for additional traffic and the message matches the filters).
The text message is transmitted once by those Tx-capable I-gates as soon as it is received and there is clear channel at the I-gate. If the sender sends it again, the suitable I-gates (according to updated received traffic history at the time of the resend) will forward it again.
There is no place that messages are "held"; if the recipient isn't listening at the time the message is transmitted, they won't get it. Period. The reason that aprs.fi always has it is because aprs.fi is always connected 24/7/365 and therefore never misses any traffic that makes it to the APRS-IS backbone.
WHO-IS (and ANSRVR and others) are APRS-IS clients that have no RF capability, so they can only be accessed by stations either directly connected to the APRS-IS, or in range of a Tx-capable I-gate. They are all robots with a specified response behavior for a type of message sent to them.
Hope this explains. Sorry for the disappointing news.
Andrew, KA2DDO
author of YAAC (an APRS-IS client and I-gate, among other things)
________________________________________
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Bob Cameron via groups.io <bob3bob3@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2025 5:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [direwolf] APRS messaging query
Looking to understand some obscure things about APRS messaging.
In Understanding-APRS-Packets.pdf on John's aprsspec github site. (Tnx John!)
RF to RF on same channel, well understood. Also understood is that the delivery will be retried until timed out, an ack is received or send cancelled.
RF to RF via an IGate says can be done, but how does one know the recipients current RF location? Is it just automatic when WIDE hops are used? Also could the recipients closest RF TX site be explicitly defined in the digi path?
The WHOIS server example is a bit confusing, but in essence appears to be a robot data response.
My main question though is how does one poll for a message "being held not deliverable" in IS? (Mainly I think in VK as Inet>RF messaging seems disabled) I use Xastir to only display/list the RF channel and usually leave the Internet Server interface down, but now wonder if up and the filter parameter t/m/VK* will work? (I have TX disabled on this interface too.)
I know too there is a facility to send messages from the CLI, but is there a method to pull down "held" messages?
Tnxs Bob VK2YQA
|
Greetings. You're not going to be happy with some of the things you're about to learn about APRS text messaging. For text messages relayed through APRS-IS, the sender doesn't know and can't specify the recipient's position on the APRS-IS anyway. All I-gates in range of the sender will forward the text message to the backbone; the backbone will de-duplicate those forwards. Any I-gates currently on the backbone who have heard and reported the recipient _beaconing_ within some time interval (don't know the exact interval) will be sent the text message on the assumption those are Tx-capable I-gates who can forward the message to the final recipient. Other I-gates won't receive the message (unless they are using filters to ask for additional traffic and the message matches the filters). The text message is transmitted once by those Tx-capable I-gates as soon as it is received and there is clear channel at the I-gate. If the sender sends it again, the suitable I-gates (according to updated received traffic history at the time of the resend) will forward it again. There is no place that messages are "held"; if the recipient isn't listening at the time the message is transmitted, they won't get it. Period. The reason that aprs.fi always has it is because aprs.fi is always connected 24/7/365 and therefore never misses any traffic that makes it to the APRS-IS backbone. WHO-IS (and ANSRVR and others) are APRS-IS clients that have no RF capability, so they can only be accessed by stations either directly connected to the APRS-IS, or in range of a Tx-capable I-gate. They are all robots with a specified response behavior for a type of message sent to them. Hope this explains. Sorry for the disappointing news. Andrew, KA2DDO author of YAAC (an APRS-IS client and I-gate, among other things) ________________________________________ From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Bob Cameron via groups.io <bob3bob3@...> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2025 5:00 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [direwolf] APRS messaging query Looking to understand some obscure things about APRS messaging. In Understanding-APRS-Packets.pdf on John's aprsspec github site. (Tnx John!) RF to RF on same channel, well understood. Also understood is that the delivery will be retried until timed out, an ack is received or send cancelled. RF to RF via an IGate says can be done, but how does one know the recipients current RF location? Is it just automatic when WIDE hops are used? Also could the recipients closest RF TX site be explicitly defined in the digi path? The WHOIS server example is a bit confusing, but in essence appears to be a robot data response. My main question though is how does one poll for a message "being held not deliverable" in IS? (Mainly I think in VK as Inet>RF messaging seems disabled) I use Xastir to only display/list the RF channel and usually leave the Internet Server interface down, but now wonder if up and the filter parameter t/m/VK* will work? (I have TX disabled on this interface too.) I know too there is a facility to send messages from the CLI, but is there a method to pull down "held" messages? Tnxs Bob VK2YQA
|
Looking to understand some obscure things about APRS messaging.
In Understanding-APRS-Packets.pdf on John's aprsspec github site.
(Tnx John!)
RF to RF on same channel, well understood. Also understood is
that the delivery will be retried until timed out, an ack is
received or send cancelled.
RF to RF via an IGate says can be done, but how does one know the
recipients current RF location? Is it just automatic when WIDE
hops are used? Also could the recipients closest RF TX site be
explicitly defined in the digi path?
The WHOIS server example is a bit confusing, but in essence
appears to be a robot data response.
My main question though is how does one poll for a message "being
held not deliverable" in IS? (Mainly I think in VK as Inet>RF
messaging seems disabled) I use Xastir to only display/list the RF
channel and usually leave the Internet Server interface down, but
now wonder if up and the filter parameter t/m/VK* will work? (I
have TX disabled on this interface too.)
I know too there is a facility to send messages from the CLI, but
is there a method to pull down "held" messages?
Tnxs Bob VK2YQA
|
Re: Containerized (Docker) APRS tracker with DireWolf
Hi Kevin -- haha that was a thread from more than a year ago! I kinda gave up on using a Raspi in the car, mainly because?I couldn't get the RFI down to the level that my? GPS and soundcard didn't crash whenever the transmitter was on. I tried some things (chokes, etc.) that helped a bit, but not enough to make a stable environment.
In the meantime, feel free to ask about using Docker environments on SBCs like the Raspberry Pi. I have a lot of experience with that: we formed a group of enthusiasts doing mostly aircraft tracking using SDR dongles, and we containerized all of our software. See if you are interested, or contact me off-list if you have any?questions.
Ramon kx1t
Ramon:
Sorry, never got notified you had replied.
I'm now digging into it on the Lenovo, prior to moving it into several other setups (Pi3B, VB VM docker host, XCP-NG VM Docker host. Got several DigiRig v1.9s as Xmas gifts, so setting them up, too. As I already use Chrony & GPSD in the home lab network, those are a breeze. I am also looking at your toolkit S6 to see how much I should devote to it. I am learning the XCP-NG Xen Orchestra process, too. I gave up on ProxMox as I never could get it to 'share' PCIe and USP properly.
Cow-a-bunga! (or is it: Cannonball!!!)
--
= = = =
? Kevin? --? KD9EFV
|
Re: wrong topic - but I guess this is where the experts live
Hello Iain,
In both APRS and Winlink you find documentation that
associates specific SSIDs as an identifier for the station
type. In some regions similar agreements have been made
regarding the use of SSIDs as station type identifiers.
I guess that is what I am asking about.? I never seem to be able
to guess if -7 is a BBS or a CHAT or nothing-at-all.
There does not seem to be a standard in the UK???? Or am I
wrong?
In an APRS world, there are well known standards.? A good page
combining all this information can be found here:
??
In a classic packet setups, the SSID convention is very regional
specific.? In the Bay Area, California on the 145.050 frequency, we
use the following:
--
??????????? SSID :: Description
???????????
-----::--------------------------------------------
????????????? -0 :: (aka.. no SSID) direct human to human /
keyboard to keyboard chat
????????????? -1 :: PBBS mailboxes
????????????? -2 :: not specifically used
????????????? -3 :: not specifically used
????????????? -4 :: not specifically used
????????????? -5 :: netrom nodes and digipeaters
????????????? -6 :: not specifically used
????????????? -7 :: netrom nodes and digipeters (alternate)
????????????? -8 :: not specifically used
????????????? -9 :: not specifically used
???????????? -10 :: for Winlink nodes (should be
on Winlink frequencies like 145.630, etc)
???????????? -11 through -15 :: generally NEVER used since
NETROM connections will automatically use
??????????????????????????????? these high SSID numbers
starting with -15 when creating secondary
??????????????????????????????? connections.? For each hop,
netrom will continue subtracting from the
??????????????????????????????? SSID number through the
lower SSIDs to manage link by link connections
--
I have more details here in Section 28.c.11 of my Packet Radio
using Direwolf on Raspberry Pi / Debian Linux here:
--David
KI6ZHD
|
Re: wrong topic - but I guess this is where the experts live
Hi Iain, The hope is one day I may be able to contact another packet-user over 2m. This is outside of the SSID topic, but in my experience the most important part of a packet station is the antenna. All the other components of the station cannot make up for any shortcomings in your antenna. Use a good antenna and mount it as high as you can securely mount it. Everything else is secondary (that doesn't mean other items don't matter at all, just that they are less important). Check the bandplan for your particular area. At my location there are several frequencies dedicated to different aspects of packet communication with some only seeing sporadic use (in some cases centered around specific times for certain nets) while others (the APRS frequency in particular) see around-the-clock almost non-stop traffic. Living in a large metropolitan area probably means that I see a higher packet traffic volume here than someone in a rural area might see. I do packet on the 2m, 220MHz and 440MHz bands. I guess that is what I am asking about. I never seem to be able to guess if -7 is a BBS or a CHAT or nothing-at-all.
There does not seem to be a standard in the UK??? Or am I wrong? I guess what I was trying to convey (alas poorly) was that there isn't one rule for all. When operating at the national APRS frequency, different conventions for the "meaning" of a SSID apply then when operating at a dedicated Winlink frequency. Other nets/frequencies may have informal guidelines about the use of SSIDs or they may not care. Some conventions are not borne out of a deliberate design but merely the result of following the defaults set by TNC manufacturers (such as -1 for a BBS/PBBS or the -7 for a Ka-Node). Following conventions can be helpful to users who only have to remember the callsign and know which service to expect at which SSID at all the local stations. It is perhaps also worth noting that even in the case were guidelines exist, you will always find stations that for one reason or another don't follow them. If you find that you are able to connect with an existing group of packet users in your area then it does make sense to check with them what local conventions are and to follow those where possible. Otherwise, just don't worry and make up your own SSID assignments as you see fit. I respond to email as I read it, I dont real it all first. Been there, done that :-) Wittgenstein and his tractatus caught me! Heard the name before but had to look up the significance. "Words have meaning" is a phrase I tend to use, so it sounds like he is my kind of guy. At the bunker I run a system with a BBS and chat and have links to the states over the internet to collect messages.
So in total use 3 SSIDs. Ah, so you do like to live in "interesting times" ! This does mean that you need to use SSIDs for two distinct purposes: - One purpose is to be able to operate two packet stations on the same frequency without conflicting with each other. - The other purpose is to be able to offer multiple services by connecting to the same station with distinct SSIDs. The need to reserve SSIDs applies only to those SSIDs from which you establish outgoing communication (and even there only if that communication is being relayed by 3rd-party stations on your behalf, i.e. digipeated). Typically that is the MYCALL parameter that is used when making connections (in the case of Direwolf, beware that the applications connected to Direwolf may have their own idea of what your outgoing callsign is; the direwolf.conf MYCALL parameter applies to packets generated by Direwolf itself, such as any configured beacons). This means that after picking the SSID you want to be the base SSID for the station make sure that you keep some SSIDs below the base SSID free for possible digipeating but don't worry about assigning sequential SSIDs for incoming services above the base SSID. Let's say you pick -0 for the home station and -8 for the bunker station. At home you may still have a Mailbox or PBBS service and you use -1 for that. At the bunker you use -9, -10, -11 for the services you have configured there (assuming those services don't originate outgoing traffic that needs to be digipeated). This leaves -15 to -12 (4 hops) for digipeating from home and -7 to -2 (6 hops) for digipeating from the bunker station. It sounds from your reply that you have a good grip on the situation. Good luck and have a lot of fun Thomas KK6FPP
|
Re: wrong topic - but I guess this is where the experts live
Thanks for the long and detailed reply.
On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 11:08 PM, Thomas Leibold wrote:
Based on your callsign you appear to be in the UK. I'm not sure why you emphasized that one of the two locations is a commercial building but in some (most?) countries it is not legal to use Amateur Radio for commercial purposes. Obviously an Amateur Radio station can be located at a business as long as it is only operated by licensed hams for legitimate (non-commercial) communication purposes.
I own the WW2 bunker.? It is a commercial building.? BUT the radio is not used commercially.? The location of the bunker gives me a longer reach along the coast-line that from my house.? The hope is one day I may be able to contact another packet-user over 2m.
(the -0 SSID) is the same as having no SSID at all (you cannot use CALLSIGN and CALLSIGN-0 to distinguish between two stations, they are the same!).
Ta, and for the gotchas ....
....
In both APRS and Winlink you find documentation that associates specific SSIDs as an identifier for the station type. In some regions similar agreements have been made regarding the use of SSIDs as station type identifiers.
I guess that is what I am asking about.? I never seem to be able to guess if -7 is a BBS or a CHAT or nothing-at-all. There does not seem to be a standard in the UK???? Or am I wrong?
None of those guidelines agree with each other and you should feel free to ignore those unless your usage applies to one of those cases (APRS has anyway developed a different system to identify the type of a station with far greater granularity than the original 16 offered by SSID).
Another use of SSID is to use them as a substitute for the concept of a network port since that is missing from the AX.25 protocol. For a single packet station to offer more than one service, each such service has to be associated with a different SSID. For example a station may use SSID -1 for the PBBS and SSID -5 for a NetROM Node.
I am a TCP/IP networking background, so that helps my understanding.
...
There are two basic types of packet communication. Unconnected mode is comparable with UDP in IP networks and since there are no acknowledgements or other responses in this mode, two stations operating with the same callsign is generally harmless (but may not be legal since it probably violates rules about station identification).
Understood.
Connected mode, which is comparable with TCP in IP networking, consists of establishing a connection between two stations. If you have two packet stations A1 and A2 configured with the same callsign and use station A1 to connect to a third-party station B then the response from B will likely be heard by A1 and A2. A1 will be happy to hear that the connection was accepted and start the actual transfer while unattended station A2 will respond with an error response (disconnect message) since it is not aware of an active connection between A2 and B. This can (and usually does) interfere with the communication between A1 and B. Using SSIDs to make the callsigns unique for A1 and A2 is a way to avoid this specific problem.
Understood.
All of the above deals with choosing a specific SSID on purpose. There is however one aspect about SSIDs where different SSIDs get created automatically without the direct influence of the packet operator and much about it that you read online or hear from other hams is wrong (including many sources that really ought to know better)!
There are situations where packet traffic initiated by you is handled by a 3rd party on your behalf. The most common scenario is digipeating where you have other stations retransmit a message that you created. Depending on the distance between you and the intended recipient(s), there may be multiple stations involved in retransmitting (digipeating) your message. Up to 8 digipeaters may be specified by the original sender and the original station will most likely hear at least the first of those retransmissions and possibly more. To ensure that the retransmission uses a distinct id while still remaining to be associated with the original transmitters callsign, the digipeater subtracts 1 from the message before retransmitting it. For a station that started with the basic callsign (no SSID suffix), the first digipeater would send the message as if it came from SSID -15 (no SSID is equal to -0 and subtracting 1 from 0 in 4-bit unsigned arithmetic results in 15).
Thank you - this makes a lot of sense - I had not seen that in anything I have read.? So does that mean if I send out to a digipeater from SSID-5 that SSID-4 (and perhaps -3 (etc) depending on topology) needs to be unused?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? The second digipeater sees an incoming message with SSID -15 and retransmits with SSID -14. So far so good (and most online sources agree). However when your station is operating with a different SSID, let's say -7 then the first digipeater will use -6 and the second digipeater will use -5 (not the -15 and -14 many expect to see in that case).
You have answered my question!? I respond to email as I read it, I dont real it all first.? Wittgenstein and his tractatus caught me!
This rule about digipeating also applies to Kantronics Ka-Nodes (which are an improvement on basic digipeating to give it NetROM like behavior). Even when using NetROM nodes, while there is no SSID modification for messages travelling through a NetROM network, there will still be a minus 1 subtraction for the SSID if the final destination is not itself a NetROM node.
Both connected mode and unconnected mode packets can be digipeated.
I need to read more.? This is nice stuff.? Some of which I think I used to know ;-(
If you are sure that you will never use digipeaters or other forms of 3rd party retransmissions then you could use sequential numbers for your SSIDs. However I would still recommend to play it safe and use -0 and -8 (for a separation of 8, which is the maximum number of digipeater hops) for two stations on the same frequency. If you later add more stations use SSIDs -4 and -12 (for a separation of 4 which is often the practical limit of digipeating).
Binary chop it.? Understood.
There are additional potential pitfalls (I don't think they apply to Direwolf, but it helps to be aware them).
Hardware TNCs in particular can be configured to accept any SSID on incoming packets (wildcard SSID) which must be turned off if you want to use SSIDs to distinguish more than 1 packet station on the same frequency (or the wrong station will respond as well).
I have a few old TNCs - Kantonics, PAKRATT etc.? I will remember to check for that.
Software/firmware bugs related to the use of SSIDs may complicate your life (invalid assumptions of software developers considering only some of the use cases for SSIDs).
Yep, software development is hard.? We should all just use chatGPT!!
?
Sir, thank you for your time and patience in that explanation.? I now know a lot more than I did, and better go read yet more web-sites.
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Re: wrong topic - but I guess this is where the experts live
On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 07:12 PM, David Ranch wrote:
It would be best to correct your terminology up front so we avoid misunderstandings.?
Agreed, I am new to this technology and just import my TCP/IP names!? I will get there
Having two sites (and access to both sites at the same time) would allow me to better understand and experiment with packet routing setups - as well as to try out different pieces of kit (inc direwolf!) from home.
Simply have one site use the callsign and SSID of MM7IRM-1 and have the other site use MM7IRM-2 and it should just work.? You can easily use SSIDs up to about "-11" but after that, if you ever plan on using NETROM, SSIDs 11-15 can be automatically used by those technologies so I recommend to avoid manually using them.
OK, I am still trying to understand NETROM.? I will keep away from the those SSIDs.
Beyond getting Direwolf up and running, how do you plan on using this packet radio connection?? Beyond just sending beacon packets from Direwolf, you'll probably want/need to use other higher level applications to use this link.? There is a LOT of options here depending on what operating system the computer's running Direwolf are running.
I have a radio a TNC and a computer in the bunker.? This communicates (2m) with 2 others in the area. I tend to learn from my mistakes - not just by reading others examples.
?
I set up a pair of PIs and dirwolf system (no radios to start with) and had then talking to one-another.? I generated tones usings somebodies s/w - so that I could better understand the parameters in direwolf for frequencies etc.? It was a (re)learning curve.? Then I dug out my old TNCs and went online WITHOUT direwolf!
Having a working system in the bunker I would like to better understand the linbqp routing and configs.? I think the best way for me to do that is to set up a 2nd 2m station at home and experiment between my home and the bunker.? That may end up with a PI, linbpq and direwolf.? That is all.? I dont know the convention for SSID allocation when 1 callsign wants to run 2 stations.? (Since there are only 2 other packet users about at present it is no big deal - I will be told when it is all wrong.? I get well mentored).
So the home system is exclusively for "routing" (whatever it is known as in the trade) experiments - to understand linBPQ better then I do.?
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Re: wrong topic - but I guess this is where the experts live
On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 05:47 PM, Don Rolph wrote:
But each must have a separate?SSID and operate independently.
?
?
At the bunker I run a system with a BBS and chat and have links to the states over the internet to collect messages. So in total use 3 SSIDs.? Are there any particular allocation of SSIDs that are preferred, or is it just a "bun fight" and not important?
?
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Re: wrong topic - but I guess this is where the experts live
Hi Iain,
Based on your callsign you appear to be in the UK. I'm not sure why you emphasized that one of the two locations is a commercial building but in some (most?) countries it is not legal to use Amateur Radio for commercial purposes. Obviously an Amateur Radio station can be located at a business as long as it is only operated by licensed hams for legitimate (non-commercial) communication purposes.
For voice calls the use of SSIDs is simple because you have a lot of options. For AX.25 packet communication however there are only 16 possibilities, one of which (the -0 SSID) is the same as having no SSID at all (you cannot use CALLSIGN and CALLSIGN-0 to distinguish between two stations, they are the same!).
If you keep your first station at your official callsign (no SSID or the -0 suffix), you can use -1 to -15 as SSID for a second station, but there are gotchas!
In both APRS and Winlink you find documentation that associates specific SSIDs as an identifier for the station type. In some regions similar agreements have been made regarding the use of SSIDs as station type identifiers. None of those guidelines agree with each other and you should feel free to ignore those unless your usage applies to one of those cases (APRS has anyway developed a different system to identify the type of a station with far greater granularity than the original 16 offered by SSID).
Another use of SSID is to use them as a substitute for the concept of a network port since that is missing from the AX.25 protocol. For a single packet station to offer more than one service, each such service has to be associated with a different SSID. For example a station may use SSID -1 for the PBBS and SSID -5 for a NetROM Node.
In your use case the SSID would be used to distinguish between two separate stations owned by the same licensed amateur radio operator. This is yet another purpose of SSIDs and as far as I know is actually the original reason for having SSIDs in the first place.
There are two basic types of packet communication. Unconnected mode is comparable with UDP in IP networks and since there are no acknowledgements or other responses in this mode, two stations operating with the same callsign is generally harmless (but may not be legal since it probably violates rules about station identification). Connected mode, which is comparable with TCP in IP networking, consists of establishing a connection between two stations. If you have two packet stations A1 and A2 configured with the same callsign and use station A1 to connect to a third-party station B then the response from B will likely be heard by A1 and A2. A1 will be happy to hear that the connection was accepted and start the actual transfer while unattended station A2 will respond with an error response (disconnect message) since it is not aware of an active connection between A2 and B. This can (and usually does) interfere with the communication between A1 and B. Using SSIDs to make the callsigns unique for A1 and A2 is a way to avoid this specific problem.
All of the above deals with choosing a specific SSID on purpose. There is however one aspect about SSIDs where different SSIDs get created automatically without the direct influence of the packet operator and much about it that you read online or hear from other hams is wrong (including many sources that really ought to know better)!
There are situations where packet traffic initiated by you is handled by a 3rd party on your behalf. The most common scenario is digipeating where you have other stations retransmit a message that you created. Depending on the distance between you and the intended recipient(s), there may be multiple stations involved in retransmitting (digipeating) your message. Up to 8 digipeaters may be specified by the original sender and the original station will most likely hear at least the first of those retransmissions and possibly more. To ensure that the retransmission uses a distinct id while still remaining to be associated with the original transmitters callsign, the digipeater subtracts 1 from the message before retransmitting it. For a station that started with the basic callsign (no SSID suffix), the first digipeater would send the message as if it came from SSID -15 (no SSID is equal to -0 and subtracting 1 from 0 in 4-bit unsigned arithmetic results in 15). The second digipeater sees an incoming message with SSID -15 and retransmits with SSID -14. So far so good (and most online sources agree). However when your station is operating with a different SSID, let's say -7 then the first digipeater will use -6 and the second digipeater will use -5 (not the -15 and -14 many expect to see in that case).
This rule about digipeating also applies to Kantronics Ka-Nodes (which are an improvement on basic digipeating to give it NetROM like behavior). Even when using NetROM nodes, while there is no SSID modification for messages travelling through a NetROM network, there will still be a minus 1 subtraction for the SSID if the final destination is not itself a NetROM node.
Both connected mode and unconnected mode packets can be digipeated.
If you are sure that you will never use digipeaters or other forms of 3rd party retransmissions then you could use sequential numbers for your SSIDs. However I would still recommend to play it safe and use -0 and -8 (for a separation of 8, which is the maximum number of digipeater hops) for two stations on the same frequency. If you later add more stations use SSIDs -4 and -12 (for a separation of 4 which is often the practical limit of digipeating).
There are additional potential pitfalls (I don't think they apply to Direwolf, but it helps to be aware them).
Hardware TNCs in particular can be configured to accept any SSID on incoming packets (wildcard SSID) which must be turned off if you want to use SSIDs to distinguish more than 1 packet station on the same frequency (or the wrong station will respond as well).
Software/firmware bugs related to the use of SSIDs may complicate your life (invalid assumptions of software developers considering only some of the use cases for SSIDs).
73,
Thomas
KK6FPP
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Re: Receive only with SDRconnect and direwolf
On 16/1/25 03:02, David Ranch via groups.io wrote:
Nono.. you misunderstand.? When I say "default" I literally mean it:
?? ADEVICE default
Thank you David for your patience, problem solved. -- Regards, Phil
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Re: wrong topic - but I guess this is where the experts live
On 1/15/25 08:45, iainmaoileoin via
groups.io wrote:
I have 2 sites - my home and my bunker.? I own both buildings
and they are about 10 miles apart and in 2m contact.? The bunker
is NOT residential it is commercial.
?
I would like to run packet radio from both sites.? Right now
there are only 2 other packet sites in the area, and I can reach
them from both locations.
...
Configured as iGate R|T or digipeater?
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Re: wrong topic - but I guess this is where the experts live
Hello Ian,
I know I cant use the same "-1 -2 -3 postfixes from
both sites.? I have had both sites talking with different
"nodenames".
It would be best to correct your terminology up front so we avoid
misunderstandings.? The "-1", "-2", etc items are called SSIDs and
what you're calling "nodenames" is probably just your MM7IRM
callsign itself.? There is the concept of a "node name" but that's
used with advanced packet technologies like NETROM, Flexnet, etc.
which ride on top of AX.25.
Having two sites (and access to both sites at the same time)
would allow me to better understand and experiment with packet
routing setups - as well as to try out different pieces of kit
(inc direwolf!) from home.
Simply have one site use the callsign and SSID of MM7IRM-1 and have
the other site use MM7IRM-2 and it should just work.? You can easily
use SSIDs up to about "-11" but after that, if you ever plan on
using NETROM, SSIDs 11-15 can be automatically used by those
technologies so I recommend to avoid manually using them.
Beyond getting Direwolf up and running, how do you plan on using
this packet radio connection?? Beyond just sending beacon packets
from Direwolf, you'll probably want/need to use other higher level
applications to use this link.? There is a LOT of options here
depending on what operating system the computer's running Direwolf
are running.
--David
KI6ZHD
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Hello Josh,
You haven't given much information here to help you.? What
operating system are you using this SDR on??? What SDR application
are you using with your Nooelec SDR (aka an RTL-based SDR
device)?? Have you reviewed Section 8.2 of
--David
KI6ZHD
On 01/15/2025 06:59 AM, Josh MacDonald
via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I am at my witts end. I have been trying to use my Nooelec
SDR with direwolf and direwolf does not "see" it and place it in
the list. I have teied all releases from 1.5 to 1.7 to see if
there is a difference.?
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Re: wrong topic - but I guess this is where the experts live
I just realized tha?this will also disable packet acknowledgments?and the connection will hang and tiime?out. So:
- make both stations the same SSID
- make one purely receive only: it cant?transmit
NOw the first station will behave normally.
The second one will hear all traffic but not interfere with the packet acknowledgments,
As. you note, you must use different SSIDs for each site.
And each site would?then be accessed independently based on their SSID.
You can then go between sites and compare behaviors.
You can have a person at each site and compare their behaviors.
You can?set up remote control/monitoring software and compare their behaviors.
But each must have a separate?SSID and operate independently.
Exception: if both stations are receive only you could apply the same SSID and they would?both receive both signals although you would need to disable?any transmitting and that included request for packet retransmittal.
I have 2 sites - my home and my bunker.? I own both buildings and they are about 10 miles apart and in 2m contact.? The bunker is NOT residential it is commercial.
?
I would like to run packet radio from both sites.? Right now there are only 2 other packet sites in the area, and I can reach them from both locations.
?
I know I cant use the same "-1 -2 -3 postfixes from both sites.? I have had both sites talking with different "nodenames".
?
Having two sites (and access to both sites at the same time) would allow me to better understand and experiment with packet routing setups - as well as to try out different pieces of kit (inc direwolf!) from home.
?
Are there any opinions about the "best" way to do this - or the pitfalls and what I have to be careful with??
?
Iain
MM7IRM
--
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Bob Watson
iainmaoileoin