"David Ranch" <direwolf-groupsio@...> writes: The LILYGO TTGO T-beam devices don't use Part 97 frequencies.. they
use Part 15 that don't have the same requirements:
--David
KI6ZHD I see: 433 MHz 868 MHz 915 MHz 923 MHz My understanding is that 868 is for Europe only. 433 and 915, and maybe 923, are allowable under Part 15, but I am not sure the Lora modulation/power is ok at 433 under Part 15 (which is low duty cycle only?), and my impression is that the Lora norm in the US is to use 915 under Part 15. But, one can operate a 915 radio under 97 or 15, if the emission type meets both rules. This seems similar to people using wifi hardware at 2.4, 3 and 5 GHz in spectrum that is authorized for both Part 97 and Part 15 use, but choosing to operate under Part 97 rules, sometimes with amps and higher gain antennas. I would think that an APRS network would have to treat a Part 15 radio as "internet" rather than "amatuer radio" in terms of gatewaying, and that's what I was trying to ask about/understand. 73 de n1dam
|
The LILYGO TTGO T-beam devices don't use Part 97 frequencies.. they
use Part 15 that don't have the same requirements:
??
--David
KI6ZHD
On 12/04/2021 05:17 PM, Greg Troxel
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
And, there's another point: Lora, last I heard, is a proprietary format
and needs a patent license. So at least in the US, there is no
possibility of a Free Software SDR implementation, even if one had an
adequately wide-band SDR. In this respect it is similar to AMBE (or
maybe that's expired and it's similar to AMBE2).
Separately from that, I'm also curious if the Lora protocols fall under
the Part 97 Spread Spectrum rules and how that works. I have lost track
of the rules and never tried to operate spread spectrum. (I am guessing
people are talking about operating Lora hardware under amateur rules,
rather than talking about gatewaying Part 15 data to and from Part 97
systems, which seems also unclear to me.)
73 de n1dam
|
And, there's another point: Lora, last I heard, is a proprietary format
and needs a patent license. So at least in the US, there is no
possibility of a Free Software SDR implementation, even if one had an
adequately wide-band SDR. In this respect it is similar to AMBE (or
maybe that's expired and it's similar to AMBE2).
Separately from that, I'm also curious if the Lora protocols fall under
the Part 97 Spread Spectrum rules and how that works. I have lost track
of the rules and never tried to operate spread spectrum. (I am guessing
people are talking about operating Lora hardware under amateur rules,
rather than talking about gatewaying Part 15 data to and from Part 97
systems, which seems also unclear to me.)
73 de n1dam
|
I don't think this is going to work as these two
solutions are "competitors" if you will and they are effectively
doing the same thing.? This T-beam device is acting as a KISS TNC
interfacing to the RF world using LORA and it's own radio.?? When
using Direwolf with the SERIALKISS command, it will act as a KISS
TNC to the RF world using a sound card creating say 1200bps AFSK,
9600 FSK, etc. into your externally provided radio.
What you can do is have both running and configured to communicate
to the Linux AX25 stack.? At that point, you can run a program
like APRX to do APRS things on each of the TNC+Radio setups.
--David
KI6ZHD
On 12/04/2021 05:14 AM, Douglas Pervine
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I found an interesting side project to interface with
DW.? LoRa APRS using a TTGO T-Beam.? The project is here:
I have a couple 70cm T-Beams.? I flashed the firmware and
configured the devices.? So far the T-Beam interfaces with DW
1.7B?
and the RPi 4 just fine with the "SERIALKISS /dev/ttyUSB0 115200"
configuration.
I'm still tinkering with the setup.? Trying to figure out if/how
to "route" traffic to/from the SERIALKISS device like we can
between CHANNELS.
Good luck,
N1OBU
|
I found an interesting side project to interface with DW.? LoRa APRS using a TTGO T-Beam.? The project is here:
I have a couple 70cm T-Beams.? I flashed the firmware and configured the devices.? So far the T-Beam interfaces with DW 1.7B?
and the RPi 4 just fine with the "SERIALKISS /dev/ttyUSB0 115200" configuration.
I'm still tinkering with the setup.? Trying to figure out if/how to "route" traffic to/from the SERIALKISS device like we can between CHANNELS.
Good luck,
N1OBU
|
On 12/3/21 4:26 PM, John D Hays - K7VE wrote: For?example D-STAR I certainly do not want to use this as a D-STAR interface. -- Levente Kovacs Senior Electronic Engineer W:
|
On Fri, Dec 3, 2021, 07:26 John D. Hays < john@...> wrote: The other issue with transformers is some modulations such as GMSK also need very low frequencies as well. For?example D-STAR.? Hi David,
Please find my answers below.
>? ?? - Are you using wide bandwidth audio transformers that can support
> say 9600bps FSK, VARA FM-WIDE, etc
? ? ? ? The transformer has its upper frequency limit of 4kHz.
? ? ? ? Yes, this is designed for the v4 model.
73s
--
Levente Kovacs
Senior Electronic Engineer
W:
|
On Fri, Dec 3, 2021, 07:26 John D. Hays < john@...> wrote: The other issue with transformers is some modulations such as GMSK also need very low frequencies as well. For?example D-STAR.? Hi David,
Please find my answers below.
>? ?? - Are you using wide bandwidth audio transformers that can support
> say 9600bps FSK, VARA FM-WIDE, etc
? ? ? ? The transformer has its upper frequency limit of 4kHz.
? ? ? ? Yes, this is designed for the v4 model.
73s
--
Levente Kovacs
Senior Electronic Engineer
W:
|
The other issue with transformers is some modulations such as GMSK also need very low frequencies as well. For?example D-STAR.?
Hi David,
Please find my answers below.
>? ?? - Are you using wide bandwidth audio transformers that can support
> say 9600bps FSK, VARA FM-WIDE, etc
? ? ? ? The transformer has its upper frequency limit of 4kHz.
? ? ? ? Yes, this is designed for the v4 model.
73s
--
Levente Kovacs
Senior Electronic Engineer
W:
|
Hi,
I didn't know about that particular pinout. I don't wish to redesign the circuit, but to be honest there's nothing against it. :-)
I updated the documentation:
73s!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 12/3/21 2:25 PM, Rob Giuliano via groups.io wrote: On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 06:02 AM, Lev wrote:
?? - What's the DB9 used for
The DB9 is for to interface the radio. I wanted to be manufacturer
agnostic, so you have to create a cable for your particular rig.
Does it follow any particular pinout (like the common KPC-3 pin assignments)?
Also, does it have Vin on one of the pins to power it and the Pi though that connector?
1-TXAudio (to radio), 2-CD, 3-PTT, 4-IO, 5-RXAudio (from radio), 6-Gnd, ...
Many trackers and other TNCs have followed this pinout.
Rob Giuliano
--
Levente Kovacs
Senior Electronic Engineer
W:
|
On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 06:02 AM, Lev wrote:
?? - What's the DB9 used for
The DB9 is for to interface the radio. I wanted to be manufacturer agnostic, so you have to create a cable for your particular rig.
Does it follow any particular pinout (like the common KPC-3 pin assignments)? Also, does it have Vin on one of the pins to power it and the Pi though that connector? 1-TXAudio (to radio), 2-CD, 3-PTT, 4-IO, 5-RXAudio (from radio), 6-Gnd, ... Many trackers and other TNCs have followed this pinout. Rob Giuliano
|
Hi David, Please find my answers below. On 12/3/21 2:27 AM, David Ranch wrote: Hello Levente,
Thank you for the post and this looks pretty interesting.? I'm curious if you could post a PDF of the schematics of the board and maybe a BOM You can open the design files with KiCad, but I can post a PDF no problem. parts list?? It might be nice to annotate the rendering of the PCB to tell the viewer what's what (like what are the various variable resistor pots are for, the 3pin headers are for, etc.? I'm also curious about:
?? - Are you using wide bandwidth audio transformers that can support say 9600bps FSK, VARA FM-WIDE, etc The transformer has its upper frequency limit of 4kHz. ?? - Is the PTT line opto-isolated Yes. ?? - What's the DB9 used for The DB9 is for to interface the radio. I wanted to be manufacturer agnostic, so you have to create a cable for your particular rig. ?? - Is this compatible with all larger Raspberry Pi models say the RPi3, 3+, 4, etc? Yes, this is designed for the v4 model. 73s -- Levente Kovacs Senior Electronic Engineer W:
|
On 12/3/21 5:34 AM, Rob Giuliano via groups.io wrote: Or does the user have to supply their own sound card? You are right, it is missing from the documentation. You have to supply your own soundcard. I use cheap USB soundcards, and they work well. Only one channel is used with the sound card. The audio signal from the soundcard is connected to the pads on the top left of the board. The audio and the PTT connects to the DB9 connector. I update the docs. Thanks for the feedback! 73s -- Levente Kovacs Senior Electronic Engineer W:
|
You mention audio transformers, but don't mention anything about audio input (sound card).?
What are the transformers connected to?? Or does the user have to supply their own sound card?
Is the sound card stereo input?
On Thursday, December 2, 2021, 08:27:25 PM EST, David Ranch <direwolf-groupsio@...> wrote:
Hello Levente,
Thank you for the post and this looks pretty interesting.? I'm
curious if you could post a PDF of the schematics of the board and
maybe a BOM parts list?? It might be nice to annotate the rendering
of the PCB to tell the viewer what's what (like what are the various
variable resistor pots are for, the 3pin headers are for, etc.? I'm
also curious about:
?? - Are you using wide bandwidth audio transformers that can
support say 9600bps FSK, VARA FM-WIDE, etc
?? - Is the PTT line opto-isolated
?? - What's the DB9 used for
?? - Is this compatible with all larger Raspberry Pi models say the
RPi3, 3+, 4, etc?
--David
KI6ZHD
On 12/02/2021 04:07 PM, Lev wrote:
Hi,
I've just put together a raspberry PI hat. It contains a power
supply, inductive audio couplers, cooling fan and a GPS module.
It is not yet fabricated.
73s,
Levente, HA5OGL
|
Hello Levente,
Thank you for the post and this looks pretty interesting.? I'm
curious if you could post a PDF of the schematics of the board and
maybe a BOM parts list?? It might be nice to annotate the rendering
of the PCB to tell the viewer what's what (like what are the various
variable resistor pots are for, the 3pin headers are for, etc.? I'm
also curious about:
?? - Are you using wide bandwidth audio transformers that can
support say 9600bps FSK, VARA FM-WIDE, etc
?? - Is the PTT line opto-isolated
?? - What's the DB9 used for
?? - Is this compatible with all larger Raspberry Pi models say the
RPi3, 3+, 4, etc?
--David
KI6ZHD
On 12/02/2021 04:07 PM, Lev wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi,
I've just put together a raspberry PI hat. It contains a power
supply, inductive audio couplers, cooling fan and a GPS module.
It is not yet fabricated.
73s,
Levente, HA5OGL
|
Re: Direwolf as Traditional Serial TNC
Hello Tadd,
I would generally agree but that's not what the person wanted.? He
wants to use an Apple //e as a serial terminal into something that
emulates a TNC.? There are lots of Linux-native and via-TCP/IP
ways to offer packet radio interfaces be it TCP-KISS, AGW, and
then moving up the stack: the native axcall and beacon tools, on
the TUI side there is Linpac, and getting into GUIs there is
EasyTerm, BPQTermTCP, etc.? None of those will work with an Apple
//e.
--David
KI6ZHD
On 12/02/2021 03:54 PM, Tadd KA2DEW in
NC via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I don’t think we need the cmd: prompt, but using it in a KPC-3
kind-of way would call for a command interface to:?
specify connect path,?
initiate connections,?
disconnections,?
and then a display of text that is received,?
and a typing area to send text. ?
The FRACK, DWAIT, PPERSIST, SLOT, RETRIES, TXDELAY,
and all that could stay in a nice concise INI file. ?
? ?Tadd?
Interesting challenge!? I have an old pre-IBM computer
(a 1977-era MAI Jolt) and TV Typewriter system that
still works.? It would be cool to do some packet radio
with it.
I think what you might do is to use the internal
serial port on the Raspberry Pi (GPIO 14 Tx, 15 Rx) to
get a Linux serial console into the Pi, or a USB
serial dongle if that's handy.? The tty consoles are
enabled in the Pi's config; they default off.? Connect
that to the Apple serial port and its TTY emulator.?
Once you can log into the Pi, you can run axcall to
connect to the packet nodes, or potentially linpac to
do the multi-session stuff if the terminal emulator
supports the right TTY model.
Have fun!
Greg? KO6TH
Rob Giuliano via wrote:
You
need to be more specific in what you expect
from Direwolf.
the
cmd: prompt was used to change settings in the
old hardware TNCs.
Most
of those settings are now in the Direwolf.ini
file (or the ini file you specify on the
command line with '-c').
Are
you just trying to put Direwolf in the old K
(converse) mode to have keyboard-to-keyboard
QSOs?
Or
are you expecting that your terminal program
will be able to change some (or all) of the
parameters set in the ini file?
These
would be things like: MYCALL, BTEXT, DIGI
?
These 'may' or 'may not' make sense for
Direwolf.
For
QSOs, if your APPLE IIe terminal program
allows connection through TCP/IP, you could
try connecting that way.?
Hey,
I'm running Direwolf 1.6 on a Rasberry Pi 4
and I would like to see if its possible to
use this Pi as a traditional
Kantronics/Paccomm esque TNC (with the
"cmd:" type prompt via a USB-Serial adapter.
I have a terminal program running on my
Apple //e Enhanced from 1982 and would like
to control direwolf as if it were a TNC from
the 80s. Is this possible? (Ignore the fact
that I'm using an Apple II, I would like
this setup to work with any serial terminal)
Thanks!
|
Hi,
I've just put together a raspberry PI hat. It contains a power supply, inductive audio couplers, cooling fan and a GPS module.
It is not yet fabricated.
73s,
Levente, HA5OGL
--
Levente Kovacs
Senior Electronic Engineer
W:
|
Re: Direwolf as Traditional Serial TNC
I don’t think we need the cmd: prompt, but using it in a KPC-3 kind-of way would call for a command interface to:? specify connect path,? initiate connections,? disconnections,? and then a display of text that is received,? and a typing area to send text. ? The FRACK, DWAIT, PPERSIST, SLOT, RETRIES, TXDELAY, and all that could stay in a nice concise INI file. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Interesting challenge!? I have an old pre-IBM computer (a 1977-era
MAI Jolt) and TV Typewriter system that still works.? It would be
cool to do some packet radio with it.
I think what you might do is to use the internal serial port on the
Raspberry Pi (GPIO 14 Tx, 15 Rx) to get a Linux serial console into
the Pi, or a USB serial dongle if that's handy.? The tty consoles
are enabled in the Pi's config; they default off.? Connect that to
the Apple serial port and its TTY emulator.? Once you can log into
the Pi, you can run axcall to connect to the packet nodes, or
potentially linpac to do the multi-session stuff if the terminal
emulator supports the right TTY model.
Have fun!
Greg? KO6TH
Rob Giuliano via wrote:
You need to be more
specific in what you expect from Direwolf.
the cmd: prompt was used to
change settings in the old hardware TNCs.
Most of those settings are
now in the Direwolf.ini file (or the ini file you specify on
the command line with '-c').
Are you just trying to put
Direwolf in the old K (converse) mode to have
keyboard-to-keyboard QSOs?
Or are you expecting that
your terminal program will be able to change some (or all)
of the parameters set in the ini file?
These would be things like:
MYCALL, BTEXT, DIGI
? These 'may' or 'may not'
make sense for Direwolf.
For QSOs, if your APPLE IIe
terminal program allows connection through TCP/IP, you could
try connecting that way.?
Hey, I'm running Direwolf
1.6 on a Rasberry Pi 4 and I would like to see if its
possible to use this Pi as a traditional
Kantronics/Paccomm esque TNC (with the "cmd:" type prompt
via a USB-Serial adapter. I have a terminal program
running on my Apple //e Enhanced from 1982 and would like
to control direwolf as if it were a TNC from the 80s. Is
this possible? (Ignore the fact that I'm using an Apple
II, I would like this setup to work with any serial
terminal)
Thanks!
|
Re: Direwolf as Traditional Serial TNC
Hello Elgunn,
This feature has been requested for Direwolf a few times in the
past.? I suppose that Direwolf could add native support such a thing
some day but it's a bit of a backwards step.? If or until that day
comes, you can consider setting up Direwolf+BPQ32 and enabled BPQ's
TNC2 emulator to offer this type of "front end":
??
Mapping those virtual "PTS" serial interfaces to a physical
/dev/ttyUSB* serial device to connect to your legacy terminal
shouldn't be too difficult with a simple "socat" process doing the
relaying.
--David
KI6ZHD
On 12/02/2021 07:12 AM, Rob Giuliano
via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
You need to be more
specific in what you expect from Direwolf.
the cmd: prompt was used to
change settings in the old hardware TNCs.
Most of those settings are
now in the Direwolf.ini file (or the ini file you specify on
the command line with '-c').
Are you just trying to put
Direwolf in the old K (converse) mode to have
keyboard-to-keyboard QSOs?
Or are you expecting that
your terminal program will be able to change some (or all)
of the parameters set in the ini file?
These would be things like:
MYCALL, BTEXT, DIGI
? These 'may' or 'may not'
make sense for Direwolf.
For QSOs, if your APPLE IIe
terminal program allows connection through TCP/IP, you could
try connecting that way.?
Hey, I'm running Direwolf
1.6 on a Rasberry Pi 4 and I would like to see if its
possible to use this Pi as a traditional
Kantronics/Paccomm esque TNC (with the "cmd:" type prompt
via a USB-Serial adapter. I have a terminal program
running on my Apple //e Enhanced from 1982 and would like
to control direwolf as if it were a TNC from the 80s. Is
this possible? (Ignore the fact that I'm using an Apple
II, I would like this setup to work with any serial
terminal)
Thanks!
|
Re: Direwolf as Traditional Serial TNC
Oh, yeah.? Used them many, many times.? Also the 35's.? Mechanical
marvels, both.? They'd be a bit harder to use in this situation,
being current loop interfaces (vs RS-232), but should work if you
can find the rolls of paper and inked ribbon.
Greg? KO6TH
Michael Wright wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
>Interesting
challenge!? I have an old pre-IBM computer (a 1977-era MAI Jolt)
and TV Typewriter
how about a Teletype Model 33? This thing at 100 wpm was a
screamer for the days.
Mike K6MFW
|
John Hays - K7VE / WRJT-215
Tadd KA2DEW in NC