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Wow!? Great info...

Hmmmm..... I think that I mentioned earlier that I am just technical enough to be dangerous.

I am just now wading into the world of packet radio, and it is quite obvious that I have much more reading and studying to do.

In my club, we are all individuals as described in my earlier post.? We do not wish to burden members any more than absolutely necessary, whether with technical know-how or financial investment.? For now, the idea is to try and find the most universal, and simplest? to implement, method to obtain "texting" capability through a digipeater.? In a disaster situation, or practice run therefor, one of our more technical fellows might have one, two, or more, portable digipeaters, and position them in one or more county-wide, temporary location(s) for the duration of the event.? The idea is for the individual rank-and-file members to be able to text among themselves, even if they have virtually no knowledge of packet radio, or how it works, and using whatever digital capability they may already have, whether a nice new Kantronics top of the line, or a 20 year old TNC, or a SignaLink USB, or whatever.? The idea is to try to make use, in this manner, of whatever equipment they already have.? To me, it looks like DireWolf would be an important key, in that it works virtually the same whether running on Windows or on Linux.? So, if I understand correctly, which very likely may not be the case!!, an external TNC could be put into KISS mode, and then DireWolf be utilized for all the TNC type work. In this manner, again if I got this most fundamental understanding correct, that external TNC is then just acting as a sound card like a SignaLink USB.? By the way, please understand that my only exposure to any kind of digital operations is using the SignaLink USB, and most of my actual contacts are on HF, fldigi, PSK31. So, obviously, I have a learning curve in front of me.

This new connect mode with DireWolf 1.4 sounds interesting.? However, my lack of adequate knowledge is killing me once again.? The first version I used was installed here on Kubuntu 16.04 using the apt-get command, but version 1.2 is the only one available that way.? Yesterday, I uninstalled that version, also using the apt-get command.? Then, I installed version 1.3 using the "make" method, and got that working, but that was before the email about the connect method of 1.4 was posted.? So, now, I don't know how to uninstall ver 1.3 so I can then install ver 1.4.? The apt-get method doesn't even find it, and Google searches have not yet bailed me out.? I find myself down a rabbit hole!!? I seem to stumble into many of these rabbit holes .... oh well, it's all fun!

I have had a couple of days to study and read, hoping to discover how to do this, but I see it is way more complex than I had anticipated.? I am running out of time to keep reading and studying, as the holidays approach. My window of time is closing soon, and the effort will be catch as catch can for time spent afterward.

I cannot even begin to express how much I have appreciated the patience and knowledge afforded to me with my posts here.

I'm not gone yet, and have one more day, but that day also has other responsibilities pulling me away, starting this afternoon.

73's,
Stan

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Hello Bill,

uichat -
fsqcall -
easyterm - -
airchat -

UI-Chat (both the legacy Bash based program and the newer Java program) will work with packet AX.25 packet.? It's very similar to FSQCall and/or D-Rats's interface

FSQCall program implements the FSQ protocol strictly uses it's own IFK mode which can be used over say a FM VHF radio.? Fldigi also supports the FSQ protocol but via any existing data mode supported by Fldigi.? This makes it more flexible and reliable depending on the propagation conditions of a given day.? This too can run over a FM radio if you want.

Easyterm is a windows application for the 'other' soundcard packet
program. I haven't tested it yet but if the interfaces are close
enough- it should work with DireWolf.

Easyterm, axcall, etc. are all CONNECTED mode AX.25 packet programs.? I had the original impression that he was looking for UNCONNECTED sessions (UI packets) but maybe I was "putting words in his mouth".? If he doesn't care on the transport, yes, there are even more programs that could be considered.? We really need to better understand what he's looking to do, the constraints, etc.

--David

It is starting to sound like what I am looking for does not exist (using packet radio in a manner like a texting app on my cell phone).

There isn't a robust app yet. Several are close and hopefully some
next generation APRS tools will provide what we're all looking for.

In the meantime - check these out:

uichat -
fsqcall -
easyterm - -
airchat -

--

Easyterm is a windows application for the 'other' soundcard packet
program. I haven't tested it yet but if the interfaces are close
enough- it should work with DireWolf.

Airchat has other issues... :)

73
Bill, WA7NWP

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Hello Stan,

?

It is starting to sound like what I am looking for does not exist (using packet radio in a manner like a texting app on my cell phone).

With understanding what your goals are, I think we can help out more.? APRS supports a simple text messaging system that is supported on most APRS-enabled HTs (Kenwood, Yaesu, etc).? If you're looking for a computer program that can send/receive these APRS messages, I know that Aprsisce (windows), UIView32 (Windows - Java), APRS+SA (windows but old), Xastir (Linux), APRSDroid (Android), and say N7NIX's DanTracker (Linux) supports it.? I don't know if YAAC (runs in Java) does or not but I bet it does.? There are other programs out there as well.

I am interested in learning how to do this whether Linux or Windows for a number of reasons.? For one, I use dual boot on my computers, and can choose Win7 or Kubuntu.? In my radio club, we are all individuals, with all the differences that go therewith. Most, of course normally use Windows.? Some, like me, prefer Linux. A very few are very technical, but most, not so much, and a few, like me, are just technical enough to be dangerous.? When we deploy for ARES practice operations, it would be very useful to have such a capability as I have described for use at the very beginning of setting up operations, until all parties are up and running on the final platform.... like maybe Winlink Express, or whatever.

If you're looking for people to setup remote, portable stations in the field... do you expect people to buy Windows computers, etc. to create this GoKit?? I know of several projects out there that use a Raspberry Pi ($35), Raspberry Pi 7" display ($80), an HT, and Xastir all built into a Pelican box.? Very nice!

My hunch is that something Java based might be the most universally deployable across OS platforms.

Let us know if you're looking for purpose built or something that various people on various systems might try it on.? Btw, what about a dual boot system like what you're running but instead of the OS being on the hard drive, you boot off a USB pendrive?? Something like Andy's HamRadio ISO booting into a custom configred APRS setup would work well - .? This already has 99% of everything you would ever want to install on Linux already!

It is starting to sound like that a TNC needs to have data sent to it in some sort of required formatting, and thus needing an application to take just plain typing text, and formatting it into acceptable form for ANY TNC.

Well, sending data over a TNC it's specific layers:

?? Layer 1 - If your TNC is running in KISS mode (meaning all the smarts are running on an attached computer), the data going to the TNC needs to be formatted into specific KISS frames

?? Layer 2 - The AX.25 packet is a very specific protocol and like you said.. it needs to be specifically formatted to be "legal"

?? Layer 3 - APRS Text messaging uses specific formatting on top of those AX.25 UI formatted packets
?? Layer 3 - D-RATS uses it's own formatting for it's messaging
?? Layer 3 - Linux's beacon program is a free-form packet which you can put any text into


Lots of possibilities here so if you give us some more specific ideas and thoughts on what you're looking for, the skills, equipment and budget your users might have... I'm sure we can help you narrow things down.

--David
KI6ZHD

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Hello John,

Yes, that's right!? Not only has WB2OSZ added both CONNECTED mode AX.25 sessions but they also support the AX.25 v2.2 specification for selective ACKs, etc.? This is a significant improvement over most TNCs out there that require to resend their entire "window" worth of packets over again!

Ps.? This connected mode is only available via an AGW/PE socket.? I've successfully used Outpost's ipagwpe.exe program running under Wine ( ) to use this new connected interface.? It's a very basic user interface but it works!? What we need now is to find more native AGW API compatible "terminal clients" for Mac and Linux users to leverage this new stack.

--David
KI6ZHD

The latest direwolf 1.4 development version, on the "dev" branch, has support for AX.25 v2.2 "connected" mode.

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?

Allegedly there is now a "connected mode" for DireWolf in development snapshot d...

??

I've used the connected-mode support with a few local PBBSes; admittedly
not extensive but it worked well. It implements support for AX.25 V2.2 and
initial connections to some types of stations may take a few retries when the
other station deviates from the earlier AX.25 specifications.

73,
Dana? K6JQ

John

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 8:02 PM, David Ranch dranch@... [direwolf_packet] <direwolf_packet@...> wrote:

?

Hello Stan,

?

With physical TNC's there is a serial connection from the computer to
the TNC, whereby an operator can go into a "command" mode interaction
between the computer and the TNC. Is this possible with direwolf on
linux

With Direwolf alone, no, this isn't possible.? Now, if you install LinBPQ and the TNC2 emulator package, yes, it's possible.? ? The BPQ32 package is very powerful but from the sounds of your use case, it could be like killing a fly with a sledgehammer but the choice is up to you.?

I would like to learn how, if even possible, to do very simple "texting"
in this manner, keyboard to keyboard via a digipeater without any other
software involved.

I assume you want to send just strings of text out on your packet channel?? On a physical TNC, you could do this with the "unproto" command (sends UI frames).? If you have Direwolf configured to work with the Linux AX.25 stack, you can use the "beacon" program to send those strings.? You can also use the Linpac program with the Linux native AX.25 stack to send UI packets as well as use it's dedicated F10 UI-mode screen.?? There are also other programs out there that can use Direwolf's KISS interface directly like UI-Chat or LinkUp - or even D-RATS (does a lot more than just D-star).? There are other programs out there but I don't want to choke you with too may options.

Can I do this with direwolf whether linux or windows, and is so, how?

You have to make some decision here.? Which environment do you want to use?? Windows or Linux??
Thinking a little longer term, do you want to ultimately run a BBS (BPQ32) or would you rather only have a packet client (Linpac)?? Maybe you would want a more pretty UI to send the packets (LinkUp, UI-Chat, D-RATS)


--David

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Hi David,

Thanks for the info.? It's been a long day for my learning curve on digital packet. I need to break off for today, and hit it again tomorrow.

It is starting to sound like what I am looking for does not exist (using packet radio in a manner like a texting app on my cell phone).

I am interested in learning how to do this whether Linux or Windows for a number of reasons.? For one, I use dual boot on my computers, and can choose Win7 or Kubuntu.? In my radio club, we are all individuals, with all the differences that go therewith. Most, of course normally use Windows.? Some, like me, prefer Linux. A very few are very technical, but most, not so much, and a few, like me, are just technical enough to be dangerous.? When we deploy for ARES practice operations, it would be very useful to have such a capability as I have described for use at the very beginning of setting up operations, until all parties are up and running on the final platform.... like maybe Winlink Express, or whatever.

My hunch is that something Java based might be the most universally deployable across OS platforms.

Tomorrow, I will look into your suggestions, including YAAC, which sounds somewhat promising, except it apparently comes along with all the overhead of the mapping, etc, etc.

It is starting to sound like that a TNC needs to have data sent to it in some sort of required formatting, and thus needing an application to take just plain typing text, and formatting it into acceptable form for ANY TNC.

73's for now,

Stan

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Hello Stan,

?

With physical TNC's there is a serial connection from the computer to
the TNC, whereby an operator can go into a "command" mode interaction
between the computer and the TNC. Is this possible with direwolf on
linux

With Direwolf alone, no, this isn't possible.? Now, if you install LinBPQ and the TNC2 emulator package, yes, it's possible.? ? The BPQ32 package is very powerful but from the sounds of your use case, it could be like killing a fly with a sledgehammer but the choice is up to you.?

I would like to learn how, if even possible, to do very simple "texting"
in this manner, keyboard to keyboard via a digipeater without any other
software involved.

I assume you want to send just strings of text out on your packet channel?? On a physical TNC, you could do this with the "unproto" command (sends UI frames).? If you have Direwolf configured to work with the Linux AX.25 stack, you can use the "beacon" program to send those strings.? You can also use the Linpac program with the Linux native AX.25 stack to send UI packets as well as use it's dedicated F10 UI-mode screen.?? There are also other programs out there that can use Direwolf's KISS interface directly like UI-Chat or LinkUp - or even D-RATS (does a lot more than just D-star).? There are other programs out there but I don't want to choke you with too may options.

Can I do this with direwolf whether linux or windows, and is so, how?

You have to make some decision here.? Which environment do you want to use?? Windows or Linux??
Thinking a little longer term, do you want to ultimately run a BBS (BPQ32) or would you rather only have a packet client (Linpac)?? Maybe you would want a more pretty UI to send the packets (LinkUp, UI-Chat, D-RATS)


--David

With physical TNC's there is a serial connection from the computer to the TNC, whereby an operator can go into a "command" mode interaction between the computer and the TNC. Is this possible with direwolf on linux by doing telnet in the terminal emulator to connect to localhost on port 8000 or 8001??


I would like to learn how, if even possible, to do very simple "texting" in this manner, keyboard to keyboard via a digipeater without any other software involved.


Can I do this with direwolf whether linux or windows, and is so, how? I am thinking putty terminal connected to direwolf via localhost, and the other fellow doing the same with us going through a digipeater or even direct.


Thanks,

Stan

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Hello Keith,

?

I recently downloaded and installed v1.4 on my Raspberry Pi. It was a new Pi so I chose to use 1.4 instead of the 1.3 that I had always used before. My question is are they the same for interpreting APRS TT commands, and will 1.4 decode the same macros?

The reason I ask is because it’s not doing any of those things that I have grown to love in 1.3

1.4 is a development release and is expected to have bugs.? If you're willing to try it out, report bugs to the Github page, and wait for fixes, it would be great to get your help.? If you need a reliable, stable TNC, I recommend you stick with the production version which is v1.3.

--David

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I recently downloaded and installed v1.4 on my Raspberry Pi. It was a new Pi so I chose to use 1.4 instead of the 1.3 that I had always used before. My question is are they the same for interpreting APRS TT commands, and will 1.4 decode the same macros?

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Thanks David; that did it; sorry to waste your time with my oversight.

73's

Stan

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Hello Stan,

Please read section 5.2 of the Direwolf User Guide (it's in the doc/ directory in the tarball as well) to understand what other packages (dependencies) need to be installed before compiling.

--David
KI6ZHD

I am running Kubuntu 16.04.

Downloaded the tar ball for version 1.3

Following is copy / paste of terminal cli commands and responses:


stan@CoolerMaster-16-04:~/0_DireWolf$ ls -al
total 13536
drwxrwxr-x 2 stan stan 4096 Dec 13 14:06 .
drwxr-xr-x 34 stan stan 4096 Dec 13 14:06 ..
-rw-rw-r-- 1 stan stan 13848615 Dec 13 13:35 direwolf-1.3.tar.gz
stan@CoolerMaster-16-04:~/0_DireWolf$ tar xfz direwolf-1.3.tar.gz
stan@CoolerMaster-16-04:~/0_DireWolf$ ls -al
total 13540
drwxrwxr-x 3 stan stan 4096 Dec 13 14:08 .
drwxr-xr-x 34 stan stan 4096 Dec 13 14:06 ..
drwxrwxr-x 8 stan stan 4096 May 2 2016 direwolf-1.3
-rw-rw-r-- 1 stan stan 13848615 Dec 13 13:35 direwolf-1.3.tar.gz
stan@CoolerMaster-16-04:~/0_DireWolf$ cd direwolf-*
stan@CoolerMaster-16-04:~/0_DireWolf/direwolf-1.3$ make
gcc -O3 -pthread -Igeotranz -ffast-math -DUSE_ALSA -c -o direwolf.o direwolf.c
gcc -O3 -pthread -Igeotranz -ffast-math -DUSE_ALSA -c -o config.o config.c
gcc -O3 -pthread -Igeotranz -ffast-math -DUSE_ALSA -c -o recv.o recv.c
gcc -O3 -pthread -Igeotranz -ffast-math -DUSE_ALSA -o gen_fff -DGEN_FFF demod_afsk.c dsp.c textcolor.c -lm -lpthread -lrt -lasound
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lasound
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
Makefile.linux:257: recipe for target 'fsk_fast_filter.h' failed
make: *** [fsk_fast_filter.h] Error 1
stan@CoolerMaster-16-04:~/0_DireWolf/direwolf-1.3$

Just had a look at your notes David. I think its going to be more than a quick install. I'll block out a weekend for it!

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Hello Koval,

?

Stations that heard UR3PHP-10 directly during December 2016.

?UR3PHP-10 211 10.12.2016 10:22:02+01:00 0 km

This doesn't read correctly.? This text above says that UR3PHP-10 heard UR3PHP-10?? Self-reporting should be ignored

As I understand I am received packet from IF about my position. I don't have RF.

What is IF?? You mean the Internet?? That's what I'm going to assume for the moment.

That's why I assume that this is packet from the?nearest iGate-IF station. In my case this is UR5KSH-1. I think that??UR5KSH-1 received information about my beacon from Internet and then redirect it to RF.

It's very very unlikely your Internet based position reports are being gated from the Internet to RF via a local Igate.? It's technically possible but it's ever the default.? The operator running the remote Igate would need to setup specific filters to allow for this.? What is more common is Igates that will send or "gate" Internet to RF *aprs MESSAGES*.? This is not position reports.. just the APRS txt messages.

If this is right, so why I am able to receive packet from?UR5KSH-1 about myself, but I couldn't received packet from?UR5KSH about?UR5KSH position?

UR5KSH-1 is most likely a different station from UR5KSH-0.? I also question the reports from this aprsdirect.com website.? It might be right but the numbers weren't aligning with what has been seen on APRS.fi.? With that said, I do know that aprs.fi doesn't retain data for long so some of the numbers on the aprsdirect.com site might be correct.?

Ultimately, I don't think these various APRS counter discrepancies are really a Direwolf issue beyond the known lower decode rates using cheap RTL dongles.?

--David
KI6ZHD

Hello David,?

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Hello Koval,

?

1. I can listen UR5KSH via RF with other decoding software. For example MixW. UR5KSH station use?WX3in1 Plus 2.0 - Digipeater/I-Gate APRS

In your original email, your example APRS comment said "RaspberryPi + RTL-SDR".? If you're indeed using an RTL dongle for this setup, are you also using that with your MixW setup?? I'm assuming NO.? I bet you're using a regular FM radio with MixW.? If I'm correct, have you read the bottom portion of:

??

specifically about the calibration?? RTL dongles are cheap for many reasons.? They aren't very frequency accurate and your unit might be a few Khz off and even have birdies in your desired frequency.? You should calibrate your receiver after its been plugged in for a few days to be completely warmed up.? You might consider trying out Gqrx or SDR# to see how off your unit is visually, etc.? Even better, consider getting a better SDR.? I personally have an AirSpy v2 and it's night and day better than my RTL E4000-based unit.

Next. consider from the User-Guide - Section 12.4.4:
--
Decodes:
100% - Dire Wolf, audio input on system board.
88% - Kenwood TM-D710A
65% - Dire Wolf, software defined radio (SDR) adapter.

The exact percentage should not be taken too seriously because they can be manipulated by the
amount of time spent in the zone where Dire Wolf could receive the signal but the TNC inside the TM-
D710A could not.
The software defined radio did pretty well when you consider that it costs only about $22.

There is potential for possible improvement by:
?? - Finding better configuration options
?? - Using higher quality hardware such as the FUNcube Pro dongle.
?? - Using other SDR software such as gqrx.

This experiment applies only to 9600 baud operation. Results with 1200 baud could be much different.
There is one remaining mystery. Why doesn’t the data change? When walking around, the GPS location
--

Though those numbers above are for 9600 baud, a 35% drop compared to using a real radio for the receiver is a BIG performance drop.? I'm not exactly sure why that is.... it could be the rtl_fm program doesn't work very well.? Could be that 8bit samples aren't good enough.? Dunno but knowing how well WB2OSZ does his evaluations and benchmarks with Direwolf, I *do* believe that using an SDR with Direwolf today is a compromise and you'll get better performance with a real radio for now.

2. aprsdirect shows that I've received UR5KSH packet directly via RF.?

Anyway, I will asked UR5KSH station to change his callsign to?UR5KSH-1.

For now he use only?UR5KSH without suffix. Maybe this is main problem.

Using an empty SSID (aka -0) is perfectly legal.? I doubt it will have any bearing on the numbers your seeing but it might be worth a try.

--David
KI6ZHD