Hi David,
Ok.... I've done a bit more reading, and it looks like my lack of
knowledge has caused me to make the wrong statements and ask the wrong
questions toward achieving the objective.
I think it is correct that what I want to use is called "connected"
mode, using standard packet, but I have only a fuzzy fundamental
mental picture of what all that entails.
To reword my objective, now that I have a wee bit more understanding,
I think what I want to work toward getting set up is a small network
of nodes, which would only be active when deployed during an ARES
event. This network of nodes would be like what was apparently very
common back in the 90's, in that an originating station would connect
to a node, then tell that node to connect to yet another node, etc,
and finally telling the last node to connect to a specific end
station.
So, to get started on all this, we might use an old laptop computer,
with a USB sound card, and an old 2M mobile. This arrangement would
be set up with whatever software is needed to make it into a "node".
Then that whole thing be duplicated with yet another laptop, sound
card, and 2M mobile as a second "node".
With these nodes now set up, yet another laptop, sound card, and 2M
mobile would then be set up as just an operator's station. And this
is the arrangement that the more technical fellows would assist the
rank-and-file members in setting up and using whatever they already
have, while the more technical fellows would set up and maintain the
"nodes".
After some time has passed using this arrangement, whereby several
rank-and-file members are comfortable using such network, we might
move up another small step and set up those nodes to be PBBS stations
(or PBBS nodes, if that is more correct terminology).
So, if I am now making more clear statements describing the objective
(and hopefully stating them more correctly), it now appears that I
need to be looking for the following kind of software:
1) Software that makes a loptop into a node, and that will
interface with DireWolf.
And here, hopefully, one software that runs on Linux,
and another that runs on Windows.
2) Software that is just a "dumb terminal" that will interface
with DireWolf for the end users.
And again, hopefully, one that runs on Linux and
another that runs on Windows.
3) And for maybe later on, software that makes a laptop node
into a PBBS.
And finally, on down the road, as time and resources become available,
convert the nodes/PBBS's over to Raspberry Pi's.
For now, however, the hardware that we have to work with is some old
laptops, some USB sound cards, and some older 2M rigs that we would
like to assemble together to form our first packet radio network.
There are also some old TNC's availble, but I am not familiar with
what they are. However, if they could be pressed into service in a
similar manner, then all the better!!
Ok... back to my studies... but today, I gotta get some domestic
chores done, and some errands ran <yuck!>.
73's,
Stan
On 12/14/2016 06:51 PM, David Ranch dranch@...
[direwolf_packet] wrote:

Hello Stan,

In my club, we are all individuals as described in my earlier
post. We do not wish to burden members any more than absolutely
necessary, whether with technical know-how or financial
investment. For now, the idea is to try and find the most
universal, and simplest to implement, method to obtain "texting"
capability through a digipeater

So let's stop there real quick. When you say "digipeater", you are
focusing to specific AX.25 technology. Within digipeaters, there
are those on 144.390 used for APRS (usually pretty good coverage)
and then there are those used for standard packet (might not be so
common in your area). Beyond using that fixed infrastructure in
your area and again depending on your use cases, you might want to
send this data via simplex (not dependent on digipeaters) be it VHF,
HF, etc.

In a disaster situation, or practice run therefor, one of our more
technical fellows might have one, two, or more, portable
digipeaters, and position them in one or more county-wide,
temporary location(s) for the duration of the event. The idea is
for the individual rank-and-file members to be able to text among
themselves, even if they have virtually no knowledge of packet
radio, or how it works, and using whatever digital capability they
may already have, whether a nice new Kantronics top of the line,
or a 20 year old TNC, or a SignaLink USB, or whatever

Sure.. that's all very possible and it sounds like you want to
center your technology on AX.25 packet. Ok.. that will work fine!

. The idea is to try to make use, in this manner, of whatever
equipment they already have. To me, it looks like DireWolf would
be an important key, in that it works virtually the same whether
running on Windows or on Linux. So, if I understand correctly,
which very likely may not be the case!!, an external TNC could be
put into KISS mode, and then DireWolf be utilized for all the TNC
type work.

Incorrect (let me explain). You have a few potential permutations
here:
1. connect your radio to a TNC - the TNC has all the basic
digipeater or APRS tech built-in
2. connect your radio to a soundcard connected to a computer
running Direwolf (Direwolf cannot be connected to a TNC as they do
the same thing) and Direwolf does the basic digipeater or APRS tech
3. connect your radio to a soundcard connected to a computer
running Direwolf (Direwolf cannot be connected to a TNC as they do
the same thing) and some other software like YAC, Xastir, whatever
does the basic digipeater or APRS tech

In this manner, again if I got this most fundamental
understanding correct, that external TNC is then just acting as a
sound card like a SignaLink USB.

Not really.. TNCs can only do a very specific mode (1200bps Audio
FSK) with specific HDLC and AX.25 framing in hardware. Compare that
to a soundcard (Signalink) which is 100% generic and the software
running the soundcard will do whatever you want. The benefit of a
TNC is a fixed purpose and potential simplicity. The benefits of a
soundcard is flexibility, improved performance, and cost.

This new connect mode with DireWolf 1.4 sounds interesting

We should rewind here. You originally were asking to send "text
messages". Sending messages can either be:
- reliable (guaranteed to get there by the protocol itself ) -
this is the AX.25 CONNECTED mode
- reliable (ensured to get there by the application) - an example
of this is APRS's messaging modes that use ACKs
- non-reliable - messages are sent but there is no guarantee or
automatic retries
I really don't want to over-complicate the issue here but I just
want to make sure you're aware of the the options

. However, my lack of adequate knowledge is killing me once
again.

That's ok and people on this list and others are happy to help as
long as you're willing to learn!

The first version I used was installed here on Kubuntu 16.04 using
the apt-get command, but version 1.2 is the only one available
that way. Yesterday, I uninstalled that version, also using the
apt-get command. Then, I installed version 1.3 using the "make"
method, and got that working, but that was before the email about
the connect method of 1.4 was posted

Stay with 1.3 as 1.4 is very much in an early beta. You CAN get the
connected support with Direwolf 1.3 via other ways if that's the way
you want to go (vs the other ways mentioned above)

So, now, I don't know how to uninstall ver 1.3 so I can then
install ver 1.4. The apt-get method doesn't even find it, and
Google searches have not yet bailed me out. I find myself down a
rabbit hole!! I seem to stumble into many of these rabbit holes
<grin>.... oh well, it's all fun!

Unfortunately, using the "make install" method of installing code
cannot be "uninstalled" as it's not a package. As new versions of
Direwolf come along, you would just overwrite the old files with the
new ones. If you want to do things a little cleaner in the future,
you can use the "checkinstall" method to build and create a package.
I wouldn't worry about that for now.

I method have had a couple of days to study and read, hoping to
discover how to do this, but I see it is way more complex than I
had anticipated. I am running out of time to keep reading and
studying, as the holidays approach. My window of time is closing
soon, and the effort will be catch as catch can for time spent
afterward.

Well, I would encourage you to try a FEW of these solutions out if
you have the time and see which ones you like. I do promise you'll
learn a lot!

I cannot even begin to express how much I have appreciated the
patience and knowledge afforded to me with my posts here.

Glad to help and there are many other very helpful people on this
list too!
--David
KI6ZHD

Links:
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[8]
[9]

?

Hello Stan,

?

In my club, we are all individuals as described in my earlier post.? We do not wish to burden members any more than absolutely necessary, whether with technical know-how or financial investment.? For now, the idea is to try and find the most universal, and simplest? to implement, method to obtain "texting" capability through a digipeater

So let's stop there real quick.? When you say "digipeater", you are focusing to specific AX.25 technology.? Within digipeaters, there are those on 144.390 used for APRS (usually pretty good coverage) and then there are those used for standard packet (might not be so common in your area).? Beyond using that fixed infrastructure in your area and again depending on your use cases, you might want to send this data via simplex (not dependent on digipeaters) be it VHF, HF, etc.?

In a disaster situation, or practice run therefor, one of our more technical fellows might have one, two, or more, portable digipeaters, and position them in one or more county-wide, temporary location(s) for the duration of the event.? The idea is for the individual rank-and-file members to be able to text among themselves, even if they have virtually no knowledge of packet radio, or how it works, and using whatever digital capability they may already have, whether a nice new Kantronics top of the line, or a 20 year old TNC, or a SignaLink USB, or whatever

Sure.. that's all very possible and it sounds like you want to center your technology on AX.25 packet.? Ok.. that will work fine!

.? The idea is to try to make use, in this manner, of whatever equipment they already have.? To me, it looks like DireWolf would be an important key, in that it works virtually the same whether running on Windows or on Linux.? So, if I understand correctly, which very likely may not be the case!!, an external TNC could be put into KISS mode, and then DireWolf be utilized for all the TNC type work.

Incorrect (let me explain).? You have a few potential permutations here:

?? 1. connect your radio to a TNC - the TNC has all the basic digipeater or APRS tech built-in

?? 2. connect your radio to a soundcard connected to a computer running Direwolf (Direwolf cannot be connected to a TNC as they do the same thing) and Direwolf does the basic digipeater or APRS tech

?? 3. connect your radio to a soundcard connected to a computer running Direwolf (Direwolf cannot be connected to a TNC as they do the same thing) and some other software like YAC, Xastir, whatever does the basic digipeater or APRS tech

In this manner, again if I got this most fundamental understanding correct, that external TNC is then just acting as a sound card like a SignaLink USB.

Not really.. TNCs can only do a very specific mode (1200bps Audio FSK) with specific HDLC and AX.25 framing in hardware.? Compare that to a soundcard (Signalink) which is 100% generic and the software running the soundcard will do whatever you want.? The benefit of a TNC is a fixed purpose and potential simplicity.? The benefits of a soundcard is flexibility, improved performance, and cost.

This new connect mode with DireWolf 1.4 sounds interesting

We should rewind here.? You originally were asking to send "text messages".? Sending messages can either be:

?? - reliable (guaranteed to get there by the protocol itself ) - this is the AX.25 CONNECTED mode
?? - reliable (ensured to get there by the application) - an example of this is APRS's messaging modes that use ACKs
?? - non-reliable - messages are sent but there is no guarantee or automatic retries

I really don't want to over-complicate the issue here but I just want to make sure you're aware of the the options

.? However, my lack of adequate knowledge is killing me once again.?

That's ok and people on this list and others are happy to help as long as you're willing to learn!

The first version I used was installed here on Kubuntu 16.04 using the apt-get command, but version 1.2 is the only one available that way.? Yesterday, I uninstalled that version, also using the apt-get command.? Then, I installed version 1.3 using the "make" method, and got that working, but that was before the email about the connect method of 1.4 was posted

Stay with 1.3 as 1.4 is very much in an early beta.? You CAN get the connected support with Direwolf 1.3 via other ways if that's the way you want to go (vs the other ways mentioned above)

So, now, I don't know how to uninstall ver 1.3 so I can then install ver 1.4.? The apt-get method doesn't even find it, and Google searches have not yet bailed me out.? I find myself down a rabbit hole!!? I seem to stumble into many of these rabbit holes .... oh well, it's all fun!

Unfortunately, using the "make install" method of installing code cannot be "uninstalled" as it's not a package.? As new versions of Direwolf come along, you would just overwrite the old files with the new ones.? If you want to do things a little cleaner in the future, you can use the "checkinstall" method to build and create a package.? I wouldn't worry about that for now.

I method have had a couple of days to study and read, hoping to discover how to do this, but I see it is way more complex than I had anticipated.? I am running out of time to keep reading and studying, as the holidays approach. My window of time is closing soon, and the effort will be catch as catch can for time spent afterward.

Well, I would encourage you to try a FEW of these solutions out if you have the time and see which ones you like.? I do promise you'll learn a lot!

I cannot even begin to express how much I have appreciated the patience and knowledge afforded to me with my posts here.

Glad to help and there are many other very helpful people on this list too!

--David
KI6ZHD

?

Hello Bill,

uichat -
fsqcall -
easyterm - -
airchat -

UI-Chat (both the legacy Bash based program and the newer Java program) will work with packet AX.25 packet.? It's very similar to FSQCall and/or D-Rats's interface

FSQCall program implements the FSQ protocol strictly uses it's own IFK mode which can be used over say a FM VHF radio.? Fldigi also supports the FSQ protocol but via any existing data mode supported by Fldigi.? This makes it more flexible and reliable depending on the propagation conditions of a given day.? This too can run over a FM radio if you want.

Easyterm is a windows application for the 'other' soundcard packet
program. I haven't tested it yet but if the interfaces are close
enough- it should work with DireWolf.

Easyterm, axcall, etc. are all CONNECTED mode AX.25 packet programs.? I had the original impression that he was looking for UNCONNECTED sessions (UI packets) but maybe I was "putting words in his mouth".? If he doesn't care on the transport, yes, there are even more programs that could be considered.? We really need to better understand what he's looking to do, the constraints, etc.

--David

?

Allegedly there is now a "connected mode" for DireWolf in development snapshot d...

??

John

?

Hello Stan,

?

With physical TNC's there is a serial connection from the computer to
the TNC, whereby an operator can go into a "command" mode interaction
between the computer and the TNC. Is this possible with direwolf on
linux

With Direwolf alone, no, this isn't possible.? Now, if you install LinBPQ and the TNC2 emulator package, yes, it's possible.? ? The BPQ32 package is very powerful but from the sounds of your use case, it could be like killing a fly with a sledgehammer but the choice is up to you.?

I would like to learn how, if even possible, to do very simple "texting"
in this manner, keyboard to keyboard via a digipeater without any other
software involved.

I assume you want to send just strings of text out on your packet channel?? On a physical TNC, you could do this with the "unproto" command (sends UI frames).? If you have Direwolf configured to work with the Linux AX.25 stack, you can use the "beacon" program to send those strings.? You can also use the Linpac program with the Linux native AX.25 stack to send UI packets as well as use it's dedicated F10 UI-mode screen.?? There are also other programs out there that can use Direwolf's KISS interface directly like UI-Chat or LinkUp - or even D-RATS (does a lot more than just D-star).? There are other programs out there but I don't want to choke you with too may options.

Can I do this with direwolf whether linux or windows, and is so, how?

You have to make some decision here.? Which environment do you want to use?? Windows or Linux??
Thinking a little longer term, do you want to ultimately run a BBS (BPQ32) or would you rather only have a packet client (Linpac)?? Maybe you would want a more pretty UI to send the packets (LinkUp, UI-Chat, D-RATS)


--David

?

Hello Stan,

Please read section 5.2 of the Direwolf User Guide (it's in the doc/ directory in the tarball as well) to understand what other packages (dependencies) need to be installed before compiling.

--David
KI6ZHD

demod_afsk.c dsp.c textcolor.c -lm -lpthread -lrt -lasound
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lasound
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
Makefile.linux:257: recipe for target 'fsk_fast_filter.h' failed
make: *** [fsk_fast_filter.h] Error 1
stan@CoolerMaster-16-04:~/0_DireWolf/direwolf-1.3$