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Thanks John and Jonathan, John?
ENCODER_PORT?&?ENCODER_MASK; would be mapped to the encoder pins?
Remember?I am a code hacker not a programmer meaning I sometimes can take others working code and adapt it to my needs but I really?have little knowledge of what I am doing.
Ralph On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 3:01 PM Jonathan Mackenzie via Groups.Io <jonathanmackenzie= [email protected]> wrote:
Hey Ralph,
I have been following your progress, interesting stuff!
Here is the computer code that Clough42 published to match his series of ELS YouTube videos:
Hope this helps.
Jonathan
On Friday, March 20, 2020, 10:19:09 AM PDT, Ralph Hulslander <rhulslander@...> wrote:
I have not found any that just work! At best, if they show RPM they do not show the same rpm with a steady running motor. A few do not show anything.?
I do not "think" I need to be concerned with rotation, especially with my lathe, the chuck might unscrew if I tried to do any work in reverse.
My desk?time and shop time is just about over, yesterday I was already doing Honeydos in the garden. I had thought I could make it to April 1 but the garden is calling, and I like to eat it's produce.
I also am having problems with dependable repeatable stepper motor code.
Of course I am not a programmer.
Ralph
On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 12:11 PM CLevinski <clevinski@...> wrote:
> Ralph,
>
> Ah, I couldn't see that before. It looked like it was direct mounted. Good job!
>
> No, I don't have a program that will read the encoder, but it should be fairly simple. Are you concerned about direction of rotation? What problems have you encountered with trying to read the encoder to date?
> --
> Regards,
>
> Charlie
> New Jersey, USA
>
>
> LAW OF ANNOYANCE: When working on a project, if you put away a tool that you’re certain you’re finished with, you will need it instantly.
>
>
>
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
Yes.? The pins are 0,1 of the port identified by ENCODER_PORT.? The mask will be 0x3 so only those two will be used.? If they were pins 3,5 for example then the mask would be 0b00101000 or 0x28.? ? And items like ENCODER_POS1 are defined as 0b00001000 while ENCODER_POS3 would be 0b00101000 ? So you could change pins (or port) and not change the source code. ? Slowly if you do enough it will start to make sense.? Study the hardware manuals.? Lots to be learned from the data sheets on things like quadrature encoder sections and then sample code that uses it.? One day a light bulb will come on and you'll wonder why it was so hard. ? All of my ELS code is in the public domain under GNU license. ? John ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ralph Hulslander
Sent: March-20-20 1:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [digitalhobbyist] #LATHES Spindle Encoder Update? Thanks John and Jonathan, John? ENCODER_PORT?&?ENCODER_MASK; would be mapped to the encoder pins? Remember?I am a code hacker not a programmer meaning I sometimes can take others working code and adapt it to my needs but I really?have little knowledge of what I am doing. ? On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 3:01 PM Jonathan Mackenzie via Groups.Io <jonathanmackenzie=[email protected]> wrote: Hey Ralph,
I have been following your progress, interesting stuff!
Here is the computer code that Clough42 published to match his series of ELS YouTube videos:
Hope this helps.
Jonathan
On Friday, March 20, 2020, 10:19:09 AM PDT, Ralph Hulslander <rhulslander@...> wrote:
I have not found any that just work! At best, if they show RPM they do not show the same rpm with a steady running motor. A few do not show anything.?
I do not "think" I need to be concerned with rotation, especially with my lathe, the chuck might unscrew if I tried to do any work in reverse.
My desk?time and shop time is just about over, yesterday I was already doing Honeydos in the garden. I had thought I could make it to April 1 but the garden is calling, and I like to eat it's produce.
I also am having problems with dependable repeatable stepper motor code.
Of course I am not a programmer.
Ralph
On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 12:11 PM CLevinski <clevinski@...> wrote:
> Ralph,
>
> Ah, I couldn't see that before. It looked like it was direct mounted. Good job!
>
> No, I don't have a program that will read the encoder, but it should be fairly simple. Are you concerned about direction of rotation? What problems have you encountered with trying to read the encoder to date?
> --
> Regards,
>
> Charlie
> New Jersey, USA
>
>
> LAW OF ANNOYANCE: When working on a project, if you put away a tool that you’re certain you’re finished with, you will need it instantly.
>
>
>
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
Hi Ralph, excuse me but I have been “lurking” on this thread and wanted to add to the discussion. It’s quite possible that a chunk of your jitter problems are coming from your method of driving the encoder ! Any time that one can see the belt “flapping” or moving around its a good sign that the encoder is speeding up and slowing down during each revolution. Normal V belts are very bad at this. The poly V belts are much better. The toothed belt drives CAN be very good. Direct connection with the spindle of the encoder clamped into an inline hole on the drive/chuck is the best. But with the body of the encoder stopped from spinning only by a torque arm connection. The torque arm should be of two parts. One connected to the encoder and the other via a rose joint or similar to the steel work. The two should be at 90 degrees to each other. The longer they are, the less wobble in the encoder feedback will be seen. Regards Bob
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On 21 Mar 2020, at 03:19, Ralph Hulslander <rhulslander@...> wrote:
? I have not found any that just work! At best, if they show RPM they do not show the same rpm with a steady running motor. A few do not show anything.?
I do not "think" I need to be concerned with rotation, especially with my lathe, the chuck might unscrew if I tried to do any work in reverse.
My desk?time and shop time is just about over, yesterday I was already doing Honeydos in the garden. I had thought I could make it to April 1 but the garden is calling, and I like to eat it's produce.
I also am having problems with dependable repeatable stepper motor code.
Of course I am not a programmer.
Ralph On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 12:11 PM CLevinski < clevinski@...> wrote: Ralph,
Ah, I couldn't see that before. It looked like it was direct mounted. Good job!
No, I don't have a program that will read the encoder, but it should be fairly simple. Are you concerned about direction of rotation? What problems have you encountered with trying to read the encoder to date?
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
LAW OF ANNOYANCE: When working on a project, if you put away a tool that you’re certain you’re finished with, you will need it instantly.
-- Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
Thanks for the replies, and everyone is welcome to jump in. Bob my encoder is mounted directly on my motor.?
On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 10:24 PM Bob T < zs6bxi@...> wrote: Hi Ralph, excuse me but I have been “lurking” on this thread and wanted to add to the discussion. It’s quite possible that a chunk of your jitter problems are coming from your method of driving the encoder ! Any time that one can see the belt “flapping” or moving around its a good sign that the encoder is speeding up and slowing down during each revolution. Normal V belts are very bad at this. The poly V belts are much better. The toothed belt drives CAN be very good. Direct connection with the spindle of the encoder clamped into an inline hole on the drive/chuck is the best. But with the body of the encoder stopped from spinning only by a torque arm connection. The torque arm should be of two parts. One connected to the encoder and the other via a rose joint or similar to the steel work. The two should be at 90 degrees to each other. The longer they are, the less wobble in the encoder feedback will be seen. Regards Bob ? I have not found any that just work! At best, if they show RPM they do not show the same rpm with a steady running motor. A few do not show anything.?
I do not "think" I need to be concerned with rotation, especially with my lathe, the chuck might unscrew if I tried to do any work in reverse.
My desk?time and shop time is just about over, yesterday I was already doing Honeydos in the garden. I had thought I could make it to April 1 but the garden is calling, and I like to eat it's produce.
I also am having problems with dependable repeatable stepper motor code.
Of course I am not a programmer.
Ralph On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 12:11 PM CLevinski < clevinski@...> wrote: Ralph,
Ah, I couldn't see that before. It looked like it was direct mounted. Good job!
No, I don't have a program that will read the encoder, but it should be fairly simple. Are you concerned about direction of rotation? What problems have you encountered with trying to read the encoder to date?
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
LAW OF ANNOYANCE: When working on a project, if you put away a tool that you’re certain you’re finished with, you will need it instantly.
-- Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
Yes that would work Ralph !? Of course you then might have to worry about getting the grounding of the motor really sorted to stop coupling of the drive power signals into the encoder. I’ve spend most of my 45 years or so working life doing drives and feedback systems ( most of them very large in size 1 ~ 10 MW). And I’m always surprised how Murphy manages to get in the way. The latest digital drives are no exception.....when someone gets the order of the running of the subroutines wrong the drive still works but the response is just horrible.? Regards Bob
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On 22 Mar 2020, at 00:33, Ralph Hulslander <rhulslander@...> wrote:
? Thanks for the replies, and everyone is welcome to jump in. Bob my encoder is mounted directly on my motor.? <IMG_20200321_102907196.jpg>
Ralph On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 10:24 PM Bob T < zs6bxi@...> wrote: Hi Ralph, excuse me but I have been “lurking” on this thread and wanted to add to the discussion. It’s quite possible that a chunk of your jitter problems are coming from your method of driving the encoder ! Any time that one can see the belt “flapping” or moving around its a good sign that the encoder is speeding up and slowing down during each revolution. Normal V belts are very bad at this. The poly V belts are much better. The toothed belt drives CAN be very good. Direct connection with the spindle of the encoder clamped into an inline hole on the drive/chuck is the best. But with the body of the encoder stopped from spinning only by a torque arm connection. The torque arm should be of two parts. One connected to the encoder and the other via a rose joint or similar to the steel work. The two should be at 90 degrees to each other. The longer they are, the less wobble in the encoder feedback will be seen. Regards Bob ? I have not found any that just work! At best, if they show RPM they do not show the same rpm with a steady running motor. A few do not show anything.?
I do not "think" I need to be concerned with rotation, especially with my lathe, the chuck might unscrew if I tried to do any work in reverse.
My desk?time and shop time is just about over, yesterday I was already doing Honeydos in the garden. I had thought I could make it to April 1 but the garden is calling, and I like to eat it's produce.
I also am having problems with dependable repeatable stepper motor code.
Of course I am not a programmer.
Ralph On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 12:11 PM CLevinski < clevinski@...> wrote: Ralph,
Ah, I couldn't see that before. It looked like it was direct mounted. Good job!
No, I don't have a program that will read the encoder, but it should be fairly simple. Are you concerned about direction of rotation? What problems have you encountered with trying to read the encoder to date?
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
LAW OF ANNOYANCE: When working on a project, if you put away a tool that you’re certain you’re finished with, you will need it instantly.
-- Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
-- Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
Thanks Bob, that is interesting. I tried looking at the encoder signal with my oscilloscope,?which I do not know how to use, and the signal looked really messy, not clear steps as expected.
re: Grounding the motor is that Earth ground or Com, possible that might explain the problem I am having.
The encoder is on the wire side of the motor, would it help to move to the other side?
Ralph
On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 11:36 PM Bob T < zs6bxi@...> wrote: Yes that would work Ralph !? Of course you then might have to worry about getting the grounding of the motor really sorted to stop coupling of the drive power signals into the encoder. I’ve spend most of my 45 years or so working life doing drives and feedback systems ( most of them very large in size 1 ~ 10 MW). And I’m always surprised how Murphy manages to get in the way. The latest digital drives are no exception.....when someone gets the order of the running of the subroutines wrong the drive still works but the response is just horrible.? Regards Bob ? Thanks for the replies, and everyone is welcome to jump in. Bob my encoder is mounted directly on my motor.? <IMG_20200321_102907196.jpg>
Ralph On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 10:24 PM Bob T < zs6bxi@...> wrote: Hi Ralph, excuse me but I have been “lurking” on this thread and wanted to add to the discussion. It’s quite possible that a chunk of your jitter problems are coming from your method of driving the encoder ! Any time that one can see the belt “flapping” or moving around its a good sign that the encoder is speeding up and slowing down during each revolution. Normal V belts are very bad at this. The poly V belts are much better. The toothed belt drives CAN be very good. Direct connection with the spindle of the encoder clamped into an inline hole on the drive/chuck is the best. But with the body of the encoder stopped from spinning only by a torque arm connection. The torque arm should be of two parts. One connected to the encoder and the other via a rose joint or similar to the steel work. The two should be at 90 degrees to each other. The longer they are, the less wobble in the encoder feedback will be seen. Regards Bob ? I have not found any that just work! At best, if they show RPM they do not show the same rpm with a steady running motor. A few do not show anything.?
I do not "think" I need to be concerned with rotation, especially with my lathe, the chuck might unscrew if I tried to do any work in reverse.
My desk?time and shop time is just about over, yesterday I was already doing Honeydos in the garden. I had thought I could make it to April 1 but the garden is calling, and I like to eat it's produce.
I also am having problems with dependable repeatable stepper motor code.
Of course I am not a programmer.
Ralph On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 12:11 PM CLevinski < clevinski@...> wrote: Ralph,
Ah, I couldn't see that before. It looked like it was direct mounted. Good job!
No, I don't have a program that will read the encoder, but it should be fairly simple. Are you concerned about direction of rotation? What problems have you encountered with trying to read the encoder to date?
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
LAW OF ANNOYANCE: When working on a project, if you put away a tool that you’re certain you’re finished with, you will need it instantly.
-- Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
-- Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
--
Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
Hi Ralph, This is an area where ....angels fear to tread. From your picture it would seem that you either have an AC drive or a stepper motor drive. Either is not good from a noise point of view, but the AC servo is much worse. If, and if my guess is correct, the switched waveform drive to the motor windings is coupling into the motor via the winding capacitance in the motor. Since the the motor is “parked” on a desk top with nothing to ground the capacitive current the AC switching noise may be then coupling through the encoder and causing interference. Since the frequency’s involved are up in the R.F. Regions (we are looking at the frequency’s present in the rising and falling edges of the motor drive waveform) the length of any ground wire becomes critical ( a metre or 3 feet may be too much). The best you can do when testing like this is to run a earth wire from the earth of the drive module drive to the motor casing and keep all of the wires short. Then if you can sit the motor on (say) the lathe bed so that steel touches steel things should be better. A separate short earth from the negative of the encoder supply to ground will also help. Normally when the motor is in its correct position and bolted to earth, all will be well, ?but for now, testing like this you may not be helping yourself. It’s capacitive coupling that may be causing the issue. One job that I had was bad enough that even with the drive motor earthed ( think 13000 HP) the capacitive current through the encoder bearings was enough to destroy them in a few days. The solution was to connect the encoder to the main motor via an insulating collar, and separately earth the encoder body. Anyway this may not be your problem, but its fairly simple to try. Regards Bob
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On 23 Mar 2020, at 01:09, Ralph Hulslander <rhulslander@...> wrote:
? Thanks Bob, that is interesting. I tried looking at the encoder signal with my oscilloscope,?which I do not know how to use, and the signal looked really messy, not clear steps as expected.
re: Grounding the motor is that Earth ground or Com, possible that might explain the problem I am having.
The encoder is on the wire side of the motor, would it help to move to the other side?
Ralph On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 11:36 PM Bob T < zs6bxi@...> wrote: Yes that would work Ralph !? Of course you then might have to worry about getting the grounding of the motor really sorted to stop coupling of the drive power signals into the encoder. I’ve spend most of my 45 years or so working life doing drives and feedback systems ( most of them very large in size 1 ~ 10 MW). And I’m always surprised how Murphy manages to get in the way. The latest digital drives are no exception.....when someone gets the order of the running of the subroutines wrong the drive still works but the response is just horrible.? Regards Bob ? Thanks for the replies, and everyone is welcome to jump in. Bob my encoder is mounted directly on my motor.? <IMG_20200321_102907196.jpg>
Ralph On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 10:24 PM Bob T < zs6bxi@...> wrote: Hi Ralph, excuse me but I have been “lurking” on this thread and wanted to add to the discussion. It’s quite possible that a chunk of your jitter problems are coming from your method of driving the encoder ! Any time that one can see the belt “flapping” or moving around its a good sign that the encoder is speeding up and slowing down during each revolution. Normal V belts are very bad at this. The poly V belts are much better. The toothed belt drives CAN be very good. Direct connection with the spindle of the encoder clamped into an inline hole on the drive/chuck is the best. But with the body of the encoder stopped from spinning only by a torque arm connection. The torque arm should be of two parts. One connected to the encoder and the other via a rose joint or similar to the steel work. The two should be at 90 degrees to each other. The longer they are, the less wobble in the encoder feedback will be seen. Regards Bob ? I have not found any that just work! At best, if they show RPM they do not show the same rpm with a steady running motor. A few do not show anything.?
I do not "think" I need to be concerned with rotation, especially with my lathe, the chuck might unscrew if I tried to do any work in reverse.
My desk?time and shop time is just about over, yesterday I was already doing Honeydos in the garden. I had thought I could make it to April 1 but the garden is calling, and I like to eat it's produce.
I also am having problems with dependable repeatable stepper motor code.
Of course I am not a programmer.
Ralph On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 12:11 PM CLevinski < clevinski@...> wrote: Ralph,
Ah, I couldn't see that before. It looked like it was direct mounted. Good job!
No, I don't have a program that will read the encoder, but it should be fairly simple. Are you concerned about direction of rotation? What problems have you encountered with trying to read the encoder to date?
--
Regards,
Charlie
New Jersey, USA
LAW OF ANNOYANCE: When working on a project, if you put away a tool that you’re certain you’re finished with, you will need it instantly.
-- Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
-- Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
-- Clausing 8520, Craftsman 12x36 Lathe, 4x12 mini lathe, 14" Delta drill press, 40 watt laser, Consew brushless DC motors and a non working 3D printer
|
