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Trying to Understand Crestron Gateways. Helped Needed please!!!
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Hi there, I have recently started ?replacing and upgrading my old ?PVID/Pro2 system with Ml 600's to an DMPS3 4K-350 C-Series processor. ?While doing this upgrade I decided to go away from 3 ML600's remotes to 3 MLX-2 infiNet EX remotes.
?I want to have 2 way feedback control with the remotes and not as bulky remotes. Where the problem or concern lies is that I was told my CNRFWGA-418 won't be able to communicate with the new MLX-2's remotes and I would have to upgrade to a CEN-RFGW-EX Gateway https://www.crestron.com/Products/Control-Hardware-Software/Wireless-Communications/Wireless-Gateways/CEN-RFGW-EX-PWE which now has been replaced by a CEN-GWEXER gateway.https://www.crestron.com/Products/Control-Hardware-Software/Wireless-Communications/Wireless-Gateways/CEN-GWEXER What I was wondering if I can pick up for less monies and within Canada a CEN-ERFGW ?gateway which has also been replaced by a CEN-GWEXER gateway. Can I use this ?CEN-ERFGW gateway to communicate with MLX-2 remotes or do I need to use the CEN-RFGW-EX Gateway to communicate with MLX-2 remotes only? I am trying to understand what differences between these two gateways are that were both replaced by a single CEN-GWEXER gateway which can communicate to the MLX -2 remotes Any clarification on this greatly appreciated as want to make sure buy the proper gateway to work in conjunction with new remotes Cheers Oil Country |
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Also, keep in mind that when you are using the CEN-RFGW-EX gateway with a MLX-2 it can not be used with any other device. You will use the CEN-RFGW-EX(MLX-2) version of the definition in the program. Crestron suggested only using a single remote per gateway, I used more than one without issues. Look over the firmware release notes on the CEN-RFGE-EX, I know they stopped supporting the MLX-2 in one of the versions.
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Thanks Eric for clarifying this, however could you please elaborate on why Crestron said you should use a separate gateway for each remote?Does that mean I need to purchase 3 gateways since I will have 3 MLX-2¡¯s? |
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Crestron had a lot of issues with that remote, the resolution was to use a single remote per gateway.
The ml600 communicated over 418mhz. The MLX-2 is using 2.4ghz. 2.4ghz has no where close to the range 418.hz has. You should be able to expect about the same range as you get with a 2.4ghz wifi ap, that is not true with the MLX-2. I think Crestron says 15 to 30'. If you were to use the newer mlx3 or a current remote you would get better range but still not ml600 range. |
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Don't be so quick to throw away the ML-600 remotes.? I think they are the most bullet-proof remotes that Crestron ever offered.? I still use one in my own house because it simply works 100% of the time.? Yes, it doesn't offer 2 way features of the latest and greatest remotes.? However, my A/V receiver displays the volume level on the TV when I adjust it and I don't need any other 2-way feedback for my TV watching where a Roku is my only video source. The only thing I feel I'm missing is voice control through the remote.
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Given the age of the remote and gateway, I've very inexpensively bought some spares on eBay. Eric's comment about the strength of the signal from the ML-600 is very true.? I had a customer in a 16,000 sq ft home.? One of the kids stuck an ML-600 between the cushions on a couch in a 3rd floor playroom that depressed some buttons on the remote.? The signal was so strong it jammed the operation of every other remote in the house including those in the basement.? As soon as we found the remote in the playroom, and pulled it out from between the cushions, all the other remotes in the house started working again. Hope this helps Jay On 5/23/2024 6:12 AM, Eric Luckart via groups.io wrote:
Crestron had a lot of issues with that remote, the resolution was to use a single remote per gateway. |
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Thanks Eric and Jay so far greatly appreciated,
Great points you both bring up about the range of MLX's remotes compared to ML 600's and 418 Gateway.? I just assumed the newer tech would be even better than the older ML 600's. That being said do you think one of the new Gateways controlling 3 MLX's remotes in a home three levels over 3200 sq feet will not suffice and I will be disappointed compared to my ML set up right off the start?? And end up needing 2 more Gateways? And my Crestron guy was saying the 2 way feedback is so advantageous now I am questioning if this was a good idea to upgrade or not??? Why is 2 way so much better? I will keep the ML's for sure,? Any more advice greatly appreciated. Thanks Oil Country |
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If your system is just for watching TV and streaming video then personally I don¡¯t see value in a 2-way remote.? However, if your system includes an audio source for listening to music and that audio source provides 2-way feedback then things are different.? You may be able to choose from different playlists, browse a music library, etc. with a 2-way remote.? A 2-way remote is also a better option if you want to use it as a whole house controller to adjust thermostats, turn on/off lights, etc. ? It depends on what components are in your A/V system and what your goals are for whole house control My $.02 Jay On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 7:59?AM Oil Country via <conrad99=[email protected]> wrote: Thanks Eric and Jay so far greatly appreciated, |
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Thanks Jay?
For my system I currently have on my ML 600's of course all my Audio Video sources control, and all the controllable lights within the house. ?Each ML 600 currently is programmed for the controllable ?lights within that floor the remote is located on. I am hoping to be able to control my Apple Music from the remote if not I can use the Apple Music app on my phone. ?I am not sure what I can or will be able to do with the MLX remotes. ?My Crestron guy is very new to industry and is learning as we go along. ?I have removed the HVAC and security from the system over the years as I found Ecobee so easy with the app. ?Not sure if the MLX could control the Ecobee system or not? I have just purchased the MLX remotes however debating if should get the gateway or not if won't communicate as well as ML 600's. Do you know can I use the ML 600's and MLX-2 remotes both in the system ? ? Thanks Oil Country |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi, I'm not aware of a way to control Apple Music with a Crestron system but there are other people who are more up to date than I am on subjects like that and may be able to chime in with a solution for you. I did a quick search for ecobee and Crestron and all the links to companies who said they offered a driver are broken.? Given that there is one way I know of to do it.? I have written a driver that integrates a Crestron system with a Hubitat Elevation Hub.? The Hubitat can integrate with an Ecobee and then using my driver it can be integrated with a SimplWindows program.? This is a fairly advanced solution and if your Crestron programmer is just learning it may be beyond the scope of his expertise.? If he wants to look then I wrote an article for Residential Tech Today on this that can be found here: There is no reason you can't have both an MLX remote and an ML-600 for control of a room.? However, because the ML-600 is a one-way remote, anything you do on the MLX will not be reflected on it.? So, if you choose a source on the MLX the ML-600 will still be sitting on its main page and won't jump to the page to control the source that was selected on the MLX. Hope this helps Jay On 5/23/2024 4:51 PM, Oil Country via
groups.io wrote:
Thanks Jay? |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýFor control on AppleMusic, AutonomicControls and Sonos are the 2 that come to mind.? I played with the Autonomic ARM unit that will be needed, when it was in development and had AppleMusic to test with, but have since then my subscription, since we are mostly Spotify and Pandora.? Both Autonomic and Sonos have native control of the AM.? Now for Ecobee, the only module that I knew about and am using it on the CH side is from .? Looking at their site real quick, it appears that the module is no longer there, but I would definitely shoot them an email and see what they have to say about it. ? Now for the remotes.? If you can find a way to keep the ML-600¡¯s I most certainly would unless you are replacing them with the HR series remotes.? Replacing an ML-600 with an MLX-2 should only be done if you don¡¯t like your sanity.? Had the pleasure of smashing 2 remotes because they just wouldn¡¯t work and taking the loss on the remotes was better than losing the rest of my sanity that I had at the moment.? ? Pat M ? ? From:
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> on behalf of "jbasen via groups.io" <jay.m.basen@...> ? Hi, I'm not aware of a way to control Apple Music with a Crestron system but there are other people who are more up to date than I am on subjects like that and may be able to chime in with a solution for you. I did a quick search for ecobee and Crestron and all the links to companies who said they offered a driver are broken.? Given that there is one way I know of to do it.? I have written a driver that integrates a Crestron system with a Hubitat Elevation Hub.? The Hubitat can integrate with an Ecobee and then using my driver it can be integrated with a SimplWindows program.? This is a fairly advanced solution and if your Crestron programmer is just learning it may be beyond the scope of his expertise.? If he wants to look then I wrote an article for Residential Tech Today on this that can be found here: There is no reason you can't have both an MLX remote and an ML-600 for control of a room.? However, because the ML-600 is a one-way remote, anything you do on the MLX will not be reflected on it.? So, if you choose a source on the MLX the ML-600 will still be sitting on its main page and won't jump to the page to control the source that was selected on the MLX. Hope this helps Jay On 5/23/2024 4:51 PM, Oil Country via groups.io wrote:
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On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 07:30 PM, Pat Molettieri wrote:
For control on AppleMusic, AutonomicControls and Sonos are the 2 that come to mind.I would recommend Autonomic over Sonos. Given the vintage of your system, getting a full-featured control interface on your touch-panels might be a bit of a chore (though updating your UIs and reprogramming the system might add some value beyond this). A simple way to get this done is to have a source selection to a new music player and just use the device's direct app for control (both Autonomic and Sonos have their own apps). this is not a great solution but functional and simpler/less expensive than updating existing code or reprogramming the system... |
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Thanks again for information, ? |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThe MLX-2 was just a bad remote.? I am sure others had good luck with them and others that didn¡¯t, but we had a couple of houses that they were just not stop problems with communication to the gateway.? We could stand 10¡¯ from the gateway itself and would get random responses.? Sometimes they work for a day, sometimes they work for a couple of hours.? They were never consistently functional all the time.? You would send a command and roll the dice on what happens next.? If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn¡¯t even attempt to use them even if they were free.? I can assure you that it wasn¡¯t an RF gateway problem, but most certainly a remote issue.? Still using the gateways in homes today with other devices without any issues. ? As for the CEN-ERFGW, it depends on what you are looking to use for remotes.? Crestron had many different flavors of RF gateways, with one always replacing the other and more so, backwards compatible.? If I was to look for a newer remote and wanted it to be 2-way, then I would just go with a TSR-310 or the previously discontinued TSR-302.? The TSR-310 has been great on SIMPL projects (too many timeout issues in CH) and it runs on WiFi with no RF gateway needed.? If you didn¡¯t want to do the 310, then I would do the 302.? Had only 1 go bad on us and when you drop it enough times, they tend to break..? That will utilize an RF gateway and you could use either the CEN-GWEXER or CEN-ERFGW. ? Now for the CEN-ERFGW, they have nothing to do with WiFi and changed up how they are talking on the RF spectrum..? ? Pat M ? ? From:
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> on behalf of "Oil Country via groups.io" <conrad99@...> ?
Thanks again for information, ? |
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Thanks for the feedback on remotes, I will stick with the ML 600's and down the road maybe go with the TSR 310's in the future once the ML stop working. Just curious our the MX850's an upgrade to ML600's.? And if so you said they will accept the ML600 files directly with no extra programming?
Cheers Oil Country |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýOnly thing to keep in mind.? If you want to load the MX850, you will need to first connect to the ML-600 via Toolbox then once it is recognized, you would disconnect it and connect the 850MX and hit upload.? That is the only way that we have ever gotten to uploads to work. ? Pat M ? ? From:
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> on behalf of "lokikallas via groups.io" <lokikallas@...> ? The URC850's and the ML600's are functionally identical.? And you can load the VTP file directly as if it were an ML600 IME. |