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Re: AV2/PRO2 eol?
So you're saying that Firewire card I've been waiting for might never ship?
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From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf Of Lincoln King-Cliby Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 7:49 PM To: 'Crestron@...' Subject: RE: [Crestron] Re: AV2/PRO2 eol? Yeah... I'm still trying to find the "new" version of Pro2 firmware that supposedly helps with the loading new program issue... posting on Labs got me nowhere, emailing "people" directly got me nowhere. It's fustrating because I know that it exists but it's not available anywhere and this is a problem that's been going on for however long. I still have buggy Infinet dimmers in my house suffering from an issue for which a fix was promised technological eons ago...or at least 3+ years ago. It seems like Crestron has an increasing case of Corporate ADHD and/or Shiny Ball Syndrome... they dump something on the market, get bored with it, drop something else on the market and then completely ignore "Thing A" and it's unfulfilled promises. /rant off. -- Lincoln King-Cliby, CTS Commercial Market Director Sr. Systems Architect | Crestron Certified Master Programmer (Silver) ControlWorks Consulting, LLC Crestron Services Provider -----Original Message-----
From: Crestron@... <mailto:Crestron%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Crestron@... <mailto:Crestron%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of RobK Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:41 PM To: Crestron@... <mailto:Crestron%40yahoogroups.com> Subject: [Crestron] Re: AV2/PRO2 eol? It's still supported, though getting firmware out for all the active platforms is apparently quite the challenge. There are people with quite the extensive knowledge and can help. However, I am not a name dropper. --- In Crestron@... <mailto:Crestron%40yahoogroups.com> , "Crestron Noob" <crestronoob@...> wrote: for firmware fixes promised for several years back, and the "high-ups" have long since stopped responding to status queries or any other communication regarding it. Crestron employee with deep knowledge of the 2-series architecture (God knows I have tried to find them). I speculate that they have abandoned ship before I entered the industry. EOLing the platform seems like the logical move at this point.. would appreciate if you send me their name/contact details off-list) "matt_rasmussen_2000" <mjrtoo@> wrote: processors soon, and will no longer be supported. I'm assuming this is all 'bluffery'. But, just thought I see if any of you have heard that. ------------------------------------ * **** Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers. A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area. * ****Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Re: the handeling of code requests by clients
Not sure I agree. . .in absence of a contract, I'd imagine it's one big grey
area save for the programmer's responsibility to turn over a working system to the client. I'm not a lawyer, so I could be way off on that one. That said, my point was that enforcing the 'licensed to run only on designated systems' provision is difficult, largely because of the difficulty in finding out whether or not an offense was ever committed. From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf Of Neil Dorin Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 10:02 PM To: Crestron@... Subject: Re: [Crestron] the handeling of code requests by clients Unless you have a contract with the client wherein you've explicitly licensed the code to them, they own it, period. There's no grey area legally at the moment. On 2013-08-09, at 6:55 PM, Steve Kaudle <skaudle@... <mailto:skaudle%40gmail.com> > wrote: The code belongs to whomever paid us to write it (assuming all invoicesare paid in full).client "weis asking for it for another dealer. I've heard both sides of the coin *don't give out code" "the code belongs to the client", so I'm just **** Database area. * ****Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Re: the handeling of code requests by clients
gsrankin
I've always felt that I will stack my programming up against anyone else's. If the client want's the code to take to another ESC, we somehow didn't do our job well enough. There may be any number of reasons for that, but somehow we failed and we need to figure out why and how. Unless specifically stated, the client owns the code. And even then, the courts would need to sort out the specifics. Who needs that expense?
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To turn it around the other way, if I receive another programmer's code, I generally use it to find out IP and Cresnet IDs and things like that. I almost never look at how they accomplish the task of doing whatever the client is unhappy with. Finally, if you're paranoid about your "special" modules, password protect them. Others might still be able to use them, but figuring out how they work or modifying them to work better won't be such an easy task. --- In Crestron@..., "Gregg M" <jets_in_2003@> wrote: |
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Re: the handeling of code requests by clients
Be careful about that contractually.
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If your contract specifies that you'll turn source code over it would be IMO a slam-dunk breach if you only turn over the pieces that you want to turn over. If you're doing programming without a contract... Stop doing that. Seriously, stop doing that. But if you want to play fast and loose be aware that there is a very strong legal presumption that the work product (e.g. the source code) is a Work for Hire and therefore the client owns the entire work product including any modules you authored that you've incorporated. [Side note: this is why for some projects /if/ the client requires unrestricted ownership of the code and you have "priceless" modules you just don't use modules and the proposal includes the additional cost for redeveloping the functionality without using modules] To the OP's question -- our contract is very clear on source code ownership and licensing. Essentially, we retain ownership of the IP (Copyrights, etc.) but license it to our client (with the intent that our client will sublicense it to their client) for use in the specific systems we've licensed. We also provide the source code no questions asked once our invoices are fully paid. [Of course, if anyone else makes changes our warranty no longer applies] I'm aware of only two case where our code was used beyond the terms of our license and in those cases, letters from the lawyers solved the issue. Lincoln -- Lincoln King-Cliby Commercial Market Director Sr. Systems Architect | Crestron Certified Master Programmer (Silver) ControlWorks Consulting, LLC Crestron Solutions Provider -----Original Message-----
From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf Of watpaul01 Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 4:14 AM To: Crestron@... Subject: [Crestron] Re: the handeling of code requests by clients I am a great proponent of receiving code on take-over jobs, but not a great proponent of releasing my code (was not asked yet) Example of receiving the code: None of the keypads are engraved some keys had multiple functions, press once for Radio, press twice for iPod, Press and hold to turn off, etc. No documentation whatsoever, none of the cables are marked on dimmers and relays. none of the cables are marked period ;-) So on that job, receiving the code was a great time saver. Example of not wanting to give code out... I have personally invested a great deal of money on Crestron hardware, and a great deal of time developing custom modules. This was time between jobs, so not paid by any client. Now, I have about a dozen highly complex yet instantly customisable modules that can be used to slap together a multi-room system very quickly. Anyone who will see my code will have an epiphany, and all my time spent will be a gift to a competitor... If anyone will ask for my code, the only chance to protect my time will be to remove the modules, just leave the program skeleton ;-) --- In Crestron@..., "Gregg M" <jets_in_2003@...> wrote:
------------------------------------ Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers. A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area. Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Re: AV2/PRO2 eol?
I posted about it here a while back -- and so far thankfully have only -_repeatedly_ encountered it with my Pro2 at home, but with the current firmware about 60% of the time trying to stop the program (e.g. loading a new program via Toolbox or even just STOPPROG via console) causes a watchdog reset. And unless you reconnect while the processor is still booting/loading the program there's no guarantee that your 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th attempts will be any different.
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I suspect it's size of program related because I have a pretty substantial amount of stuff shoved into my (32MB) PRO2, and I don't generally run into it on similarly proportioned programs running on 64MB PRO2s Anyway several little birdies indicated that there was beta firmware that would/should clear that up... and I can find referenced to that FW version in places, but nowhere to actually get the FW, etc., etc. -- Lincoln King-Cliby Commercial Market Director Sr. Systems Architect | Crestron Certified Master Programmer (Silver) ControlWorks Consulting, LLC Crestron Solutions Provider -----Original Message-----
From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf Of Chip Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 9:10 PM To: Crestron@... Subject: [Crestron] Re: AV2/PRO2 eol? "Loading new program issue"? - Chip --- In Crestron@..., Lincoln King-Cliby <lincoln@...> wrote:
------------------------------------ Check out the Files area for useful modules, documents, and drivers. A contact list of Crestron dealers and programmers can be found in the Database area. Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Re: the handeling of code requests by clients
--- On Saturday, August 10, 2013 at 4:14 AM, watpaul01 wrote:[snip] I hate to break it to you, but EVERY programmer thinks THEIR custom modules are better than everyone else's :-) In reality, any programmer who's any good will already have their own modules that they prefer to use, primarily because of familiarity. They might use a couple of IDEAS from your modules, but I assure you no decent programmer would take someone else's core modules and build an entire system with them. Another fun fact - a good programmer is ALWAYS learning, and improving their code and methods. I don't mind someone else getting code I write today, because a year or two from now I'm going to have something MUCH better. Have you ever taken a look at one of your own programs from several years ago, and thought "Man, the stuff I do now is so much better"? :-) |
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Re: the handeling of code requests by clients
That's not what they paid for. You are stealing from the customer. The customer paid for a working system code and all. You say you are grateful for being given code on a take over but wouldn't return the favor. Nobody will have a epiphany on your "custom module". Most people wouldn't use it because they probably have the same thing but works slightly different than yours. Give the customer what they paid for. If they ask for it it's probably to go to a different company which means you didn't do a good enough job in the first place to keep them.
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On Aug 10, 2013, at 3:15 AM, "watpaul01" <p.vladi@...> wrote:
I am a great proponent of receiving code on take-over jobs, but not a great proponent of releasing my code (was not asked yet) |
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STX-1700C Fully functional now DEAD
Don't know what happened...
Was programming it last night, uploaded a program to it and it was doing exactly what it should, went to bed happy with progress. Came back to it this morning and it's completely dead! Not even a screen flash when I plug it in... (Have been using it without a battery as the clip is broken hence expecting something to happen when I plug it in) PSU is kicking out 11.8v, tried another one that is hitting 12.2v. Really confused as to what could have happened, have left it without power connected for a couple of hours but when I reconnect it, still nothing. The gateway no longer sees it so it's not just the screen that's died. Any ideas as to what I could do to bring it back to life? Has anyone else had this happen to them? |
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Re: New to Crestron World
Lots of work and head bouncing off of the desk because something doesn't work. Good times, good times. lol. I pretty much learned like you are doing. Self taught, too. Learn from what people post here. Some really smart guys/gals post here a lot, listen. Go to essentials and then intermediate and then the cert if they still call the classes that. If you have previous AV programming experience, that is a good start because you are already familiar with the equipment and the mindset it takes to make this stuff work.
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--- In Crestron@..., "secrett_agentt" <secrett_agentt@...> wrote:
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Re: AV2/PRO2 eol?
I have not experienced it either. Can you elaborate?
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--- In Crestron@..., "Chip" <cfm@...> wrote:
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Re: the handeling of code requests by clients
watpaul01
I am a great proponent of receiving code on take-over jobs, but not a great proponent of releasing my code (was not asked yet)
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Example of receiving the code: None of the keypads are engraved some keys had multiple functions, press once for Radio, press twice for iPod, Press and hold to turn off, etc. No documentation whatsoever, none of the cables are marked on dimmers and relays. none of the cables are marked period ;-) So on that job, receiving the code was a great time saver. Example of not wanting to give code out... I have personally invested a great deal of money on Crestron hardware, and a great deal of time developing custom modules. This was time between jobs, so not paid by any client. Now, I have about a dozen highly complex yet instantly customisable modules that can be used to slap together a multi-room system very quickly. Anyone who will see my code will have an epiphany, and all my time spent will be a gift to a competitor... If anyone will ask for my code, the only chance to protect my time will be to remove the modules, just leave the program skeleton ;-) --- In Crestron@..., "Gregg M" <jets_in_2003@...> wrote:
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Re: the handeling of code requests by clients
Can you provide more info to back that statement up? Court rulings, precedence-setting cases, etc.?
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--- In Crestron@..., Neil Dorin <neildorin@...> wrote:
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Re: Google Chromecast...
Does it output a video signal when it's just sitting there at idle, not actively streaming anything?
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I'm wondering if you could stick one (or a couple) into an input on a DM, and detect when someone has sent a stream to it, then perform some power-on magic in the room as a result. Otherwise, you're kind of left with the 2-remote problem where you have to get the system up and running first with your MX remote, or Crestron app, etc., then use the Chromecast app to "control" it, right? I guess you're still stuck with the 2-remote problem when it comes to volume control, etc. It sounds like a fun little gadget, but not very integratable. --- In Crestron@..., "logantv" <logantv@...> wrote:
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Re: Google Chromecast...
You should get it at the shipping speed they had posted when you purchased it. I got mine in about 4 days. I haven't had a chance to play with it more than connecting it to my wifi and streaming a couple YouTube videos from my laptop. It seems well integrated with the Chrome browser but since I have an iPhone its not at the top of my priorities to play with it since I have 5 or 6 different Netflix connected devices already. I'm hoping support for it will grow quickly.
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I had a 90 degree HDMI adapter so I thought I would hide the chromecast behind my TV, but the wifi connection was so bad I had to use the HDMI extension it came with to get enough signal to make it through an HD YouTube video on full screen without dropping the connection. Since the USB power sticks out from the opposite end from the HDMI, you end up needing about 6" of space to hide the thing, so a side input on your TV is probably out depending on the model. There was also a substantial amount of heat for it only being on for 15 minutes, but I have a plasma that hangs about 1/2" from the wall, so that probably doesn't help. If you're sticking it in the back of a receiver or a switcher I guess you wouldn't have to worry about the heat or signal loss too much, but as bad as the wifi was behind my TV, I wonder if a metal rack would be enough to cause problems. --- In Crestron@..., "doug_h_encinitas" <dghardy@...> wrote:
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Re: SWAMP mute
I wrote my module to unmute on volume up as well as mute toggle, mute off
and room off. That way if it was too loud they could mute and volume down but not mute and ramp the volume to 100% From: Crestron@... [mailto:Crestron@...] On Behalf Of Heath Volmer Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 5:13 PM To: Crestron@... Subject: Re: [Crestron] Re: SWAMP mute n Aug 9, 2013, at 4:07 PM, Paul Walczak <paul@... <mailto:paul%40ensemblecustom.com> > wrote: How hard can it be?As hard as some engineer chooses to make it. Your rule is correct, which is what I had always done. I didn't realize that I had lost that decision making ability - sometimes. There are even cases where the volume might change and I don't want it to unmute. |
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Re: the handeling of code requests by clients
We give it to them, with a minimum of fuss and generally in a timely fashion provided that their account is settled.
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Although I do admit that it hurts to hand it over sometimes. --- In Crestron@..., "Gregg M" <jets_in_2003@...> wrote:
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Re: the handeling of code requests by clients
Unless you have a contract with the client wherein you've explicitly licensed the code to them, they own it, period.
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There's no grey area legally at the moment. On 2013-08-09, at 6:55 PM, Steve Kaudle <skaudle@...> wrote:
The code belongs to whomever paid us to write it (assuming all invoices are |
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Re: AV2/PRO2 eol?
Chip
"Loading new program issue"?
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- Chip --- In Crestron@..., Lincoln King-Cliby <lincoln@...> wrote:
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Re: the handeling of code requests by clients
The code belongs to whomever paid us to write it (assuming all invoices are
paid in full). My company retains full ownership & can recycle as desired in part or whole. They can use the code as they please on the system(s) it was sold to run on.* *Not sure there's a practical way to enforce this. On Friday, August 9, 2013, Gregg M wrote: ** [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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