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**


Doug,

I thought I had prefaced what I said adequately as to not be a personal
attack. I was stating what Neil and Nathan said - to be "certified" you
should be well versed in ALL aspects of Crestron programming. Just because
you don't do very much commercial is no excuse to not know RoomView. I will
include myself in the same blanket statement as well and I'm not pointing
you out in particular. For the record I do about 90% commercial. But I am
certified and have been for years. If I didn't know how to do a PAD8 or
Sonnex background music system or I didn't know how to program a Crestron
thermostat or some other aspect that is primarily residential, then I
shouldn't be certified either. When someone carries the "certified"
designation it should mean something and IMO (my opinion, not everyone has
to agree), if someone doesn't understand RoomView they shouldn't be
certified. By the same token if someone can't program a DMPS they shouldn't
be certified. If someone can't program a piece that is primarily
residential (insert equipment here), they shouldn't be certified.

There was no attack meant on Doug personally. It was more of a blanket
statement that someone certified should be well versed in ALL aspects of
Crestron programming.

Patrick

--- In Crestron@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'Crestron%40yahoogroups.com');>, Nathan Hesson <nhesson@...> wrote:

I agree with Neil completely.

My own opinion is that asking for help on a certification test only

lessens

the validity of the test. I do nearly 100% resi. I've never deployed
RoomView (in any version) in my life. BUT, I know what it does and what
it's useful for. I follow information about the DMPS line of gear even
though I'll probably NEVER see a single part in my line of work. At the

end

of the day, that type of research, knowledge, and understanding makes me

a

more valuable programmer.

Perhaps Patrick's response was not worded well but he isn't wrong. If you
aren't well versed in what Crestron has to offer (in all product lines),
why should you be certified? There's a reason the test has both

residential

and commercial aspects to it. I myself struggled with the commercial side
(largely because I was over thinking it) and I know plenty of commercial
guys that had the same problem with the resi side of the test.

At the end of the day, it's your test. The irony is, if you hadn't said

you

were looking for help on your test, you probably would have gotten some
helpful info without the grief.

My $0.02

-Nathan


On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Neil Dorin <neildorin@...> wrote:

Not to add fuel to the fire but on some level I agree with Patrick.
Certification should be hard to obtain and you should have to prove

your

capability in all faculties and applications in our industry.

That being said, it's not practically possible to accomplish that for
virtually anyone. This is not an industry where you can walk in off the
street and get into. You typically have to work for a dealer who is in

a

certain market segment and learn that way. You often only get exposed

to

one market.

When I did my certification exam I had only done one commercial system
that was more like a home theatre than a boardroom. However, I put in

the

hard work and due diligence to understand the commercial aspects and

scope

of the test because I knew that I needed to understand in order to be
certified.

What I would ask is that anyone taking their exam needs to respect the
process those of us already certified went through and only ask

conceptual

questions. We'll be happy to answer.

Ask us how and why roomview is used and what the application for panel

to

help desk messaging might be. Once you can grasp an understanding of

this

it will be easier for you to figure out how to accomplish it on your

own.

I won't spoon feed you the questions because the most important part of
learning is to know how to formulate a question to get the answer you

need.

Don't be afraid to tell us what you already understand and what you are
confused or curious about. If you ask I, and I'm sure others will

gladly

answer.

Sent from my iPhone

On 2013-05-12, at 8:06 PM, Geoffrey Reynolds <greynlds@...> wrote:

In the future, if you've got a problem with someone, reply to them

off

the

list, or ask a moderator to step in. The bottom line is that Patrick
simply offered his opinion which he's allowed to do here - IMO he did
nothing wrong (note that that doesn't mean that I share his opinion).
Personal attacks are not allowed here, period. As far as deleting the
thread, you may be able to delete your posts, but only moderators can
delete other people's posts.

Geoff

On Sunday, May 12, 2013, doug4684 wrote:

**


Geoff,

I usually get great responses on this message board and in general
everyone is usually helpful. Patrick was the exception and I was

really

put

off by his comments.

I'm just going to delete this entire thread. Nothing in this message
thread is helpful to the overall community.

Thanks,
Doug

--- In Crestron@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',

'Crestron%40yahoogroups.com');> <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',

'Crestron%40yahoogroups.com');>, Geoffrey Reynolds <greynlds@>

wrote:

Personal attacks are not allowed on this forum. Attack the post,

NOT

the

poster.

Patrick - there's no reason to assume that everyone posting here

works

on

commercial projects. There are a lot of residential guys here too.

Geoff (donning his moderator hat)

On Sunday, May 12, 2013, doug4684 wrote:

**


Patrick,

Take what I am about to say in the most helpful manner possible -

you're

an ass and what you wrote was in fact very rude.

I had a long response written explaining that I'm a resi guy and

that

I'm

learning Roomview strictly for the certification exam, blah blah

blah,

but

I decided it wasn't worth my time to reply to your pretentious

response to

my simple question. It's disappointing to know that guys like you

decide to

put down fellow programmers rather than simply not reply or take

the 2

minutes to point someone in the right direction.

Doug

--- In Crestron@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',

'Crestron%40yahoogroups.com');>, Phil Bridges <gravityhammer@>

wrote:

Are you saying that people that have only done residential

systems

shouldn't be certified?


On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Pat B <PATB93@> wrote:

**


Doug - please take what I say in the most helpful manner.

Definitely

not

trying to be rude, but trying to make sure that "being

certified"

still

carries weight and has some meaning.

There was one thing you said that really stood out.


"I've never done a roomview system before"

Roomview is a staple of commercial programming. IMO, "never done

roomview"

= shouldn't be able to be certified whether a test is passed or

not.

Go out and do a roomview system. Figure out how it works. If you

had

done

a roomview system the answer to this question would be trivial.

Then

come

back next year and try for the certification.

Thanks,

Patrick


--- In Crestron@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',

'Crestron%40yahoogroups.com');>, "doug4684" <doug@> wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm working on the new certification test and basically one of