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Hello,
When I refurbished my CommtaCar I used Crown 145 6volt batteries since they
appeared to fit into the battery cages. However they are tall enough that I
can't easily see into some of the cells and so I want to make a probe to
check the electrolyte level. I'm worried about contaminating the electrolyte
if I use copper contacts, and wonder if any other materials would be better.
Stainless steel wire perhaps, if I can find a source for it. Or, there may be
a non-electrical method involving a tube that would work. I'm interested in
hearing what others may have done.
Thanks!
Tim Dunning
Columbus, OH
tdunning@...

Hi folks,

That is a nice looking Citicar you have there. Do you have the service
manual? An updated reprint of one was available from Assembled Products
(formerly Nu-Kar) at: I am not sure if the
still offer them or not. I scanned a number of the circuit diagrams and
posted them in the group file section at:


The speed control system on the Citicars is very archaic. It supplies power
to the motor in three steps, 18, 24 and 48 volts. To do this there are
three micro-switches triggered by a cam connected to the "gas" pedal.

1. Turning the "ignition" switch to "on" and releasing the parking brake
switches the center short relay in the control group from series to parallel
(48 to 24 volts) and activates the 12 volt accessories.

2. Step one on the cam causes the tall forward/reverse contactor closes
(either up or down depending on the direction of travel selected) and 18
volts is supplied to the motor. In this setting the pack is operating as
two parallel groups of four batteries supplying 24 volts, which is then
reduced to about 18 volts by a large nichrome ribbon resistor, (the large
spring like device near the right rear wheel.) These is the least
efficient setting and should only be used for a short time. The purpose of
this setting is to protect the motor from surge currents while starting out
from a stop.

3. Step two on the cam triggers the small enclosed relay (it looks like a
starter solenoid) which by-passes the nichrome resistor. This kicks the
voltage up to 24 volts. This is the speed range where maximum range can be
achieved though the speed is pretty low, probably no more than 25 mph.

4. Step three on the cam (floored) switches the center relay from parallel
back to series and supplies 48 volts to the motor. This is when maximum
speed can be achieved, on my car that was about 38 mph on level ground.

The control system and the brakes are the two major problems with the
Citicars. I ran mine for years using the original contactor system and
seemed to have failures of one kind or another on a weekly basis. I finally
upgraded it to a modern Curtis electronic controller with the system
operating at 48 volts all the time. This did nothing to increase the speed
but the reliability and drive ability was outstanding. I can't imaging
running one of these cars without it now.

I noticed your car has the front disc brakes. As your instructor has
probably already noticed, the front brake calipers are rather poorly
designed. Make sure nobody tries to hone them out with a conventional brake
caliper hone. They are very soft aluminum and will not survive such
treatment. Any cleaning should be done with very fine sandpaper and
solvent. There was a retrofit of four small springs on two metal brackets
to help get the pistons to return properly. You should find it in the
manual under the brake section. If you don't let me know and I will scan it
in.

On my car I tried many solutions to the brakes and eventually upgraded to
the front drum brakes from a Comutacar. If you can keep the front disc
brakes working I would suggest you stick with those.

Adding solar panels or regenerative braking is not going to have a
significant effect on your range.

Regen on EVs is primarily to reduce the load on the brake system. Only the
energy used to accelerate the vehicle is available for recovery, any energy
used to maintain cruising speed has been used to overcome drag and is gone.
In hilly areas regen can capture some energy descending hills, but you only
recover a fraction of the power used to climb the hill in the first place.
Regen systems for DC drive vehicles are expensive and tend to have great
potential for causing problems.

I don't believe adding solar panels to a Citicar would help too much. The
array would have to be very small, probably not much more than 250 watts,
and when you consider the on-board 1800 watt charger takes about 8 hours to
recharge the pack completely you can see that a solar array would take over
7 times as long. When you also add in the question of cost that solar array
becomes even less appealing.

Extending the range on a Citicar is probably not really all that important.
Due to the limitations of its top speed and interior comfort the 40 to 50
miles it can manage are usually quite sufficient. It is really a little
round town runabout and that it can do very well.

You have a couple of neat little vehicles there and they can teach you quite
a bit. Please keep us all informed of you progress and feel free to share
any problems you encounter.

Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at:
My Electric Car at:
Mid-America EAA chapter at:
Join the EV List at:

I forgot to mention the other day that we have a web site on our
Citicar.



It has pictures of the cleaned brake components and that beutiful red
car.

-Ross
leapchem@...
dconrad@...

Hello all, we are three students at D.C. Everest High School in Wausau,
WI. Our school had two Citicars donated last year so we are now trying
to get them operational. After one failed attempt involving some sparks
and smoke, we are now concerned with the speed control and contactors.
If anyone has a good description of how these parts work, that would be
very helpful.
The second thing is once the cars are operational, we want to try to
employ regenerative braking or solar panels to increase range. Has
anyone ever attempted this?

-Ross, Jeremy, and Matt

Hi all,
My name is Lou and I am the owner of a 1980 comutacar. I purchased
it in 1985 and used it until the new set of batteries died (around
1990). When I purchased the car in 1985 I replaced the batteries,
repaired the charger, repaired a couple of wheel cylinders, and
installed new brake shoes.
The car has not been on the road since 1990, but I did have a set of
45 amp hr gel cells, just to move it around the driveway. A couple of
years ago 1 of the tires blew and I put on the spare. A few months
ago another tire blew, now I can't move the car. So I had a local
tire shop install a couple of new tubeless tires (steel belted
radials) for 35 bucks a piece.
So I say, what the hay, I am going to restore the car! I ordered 3
more tires. The brake lines rotted out in 93 and the master cyld is
bad also.
I picked up some new brake lines (damn those lines were a bitch to
get off the wheel cylds), and to my suprise the new lines are
stainless steel. I also managed to get the rear bleeders freed. Still
have to get the front lines, the real short ones to the front WC's
off yet and free up the bleeders.
I have the local parts place trying to locate a master cyld. and to
try to locate wheel cyld rebuild kits. I actualy have 3 kits on hand,
when I first got the car I called sebring and got 8 sets and only
repaird the cyld's that were frozen. I really wish I saved the old
brake shoes, 1 of my shoes is worn down due to the parking brake
thingee sticking.
I appreciate the group here, I have much plastic repair to do, and
much other work. Many posters here have given me some good ideas.
Questions:
Where can I get new brake shoes ( I can hear the laughter now) Lol.
Where do I get new contacts for the relays?
Where can I get brushes for the Motor?
The new tires are about 1 inch taller than the old tires, the car
used to do 38, will it get up to 40 now with taller tires?
OK enough questions for now, wait, I lied, is there another group of
comutacar owners?
Well nice to meet you all, Take Care, Lou Cavaluzzi in Tuckerton N.J.

To: the C-Car group


topper@... is seeking Citi car brakes. Please read:


Please contact him to help him with his goal, and please
suggest he get to know your group as well.






=====
BruceDP(at)yahoo.com
EV List & Renewable Energy Editor
hybrid & fcv newsitems
---

$5 million reward


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My favorite insurance company, which has been great
about covering our quirky vehicles, seems shy about
covering our 1981 Comuta-Car. Underwriters report that
they haven't ever covered an electric car in our
region, and they'd like to call it a "golf cart." That
doesn't mean they will insure it for road use.

Any suggestions for a company that covers road use of
a Comuta-Car and has offices in Iowa (or nationwide
reach)? We just need liability insurance, no
comprehensive or collision.

Thanks,

MJL



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Mike,
Thanks for posting these!
Tim

Hi folks,

I just scanned and uploaded a few pictures of Citicars and such to
the album, you can find them at:



I also uploaded a complete scan of the original Zzipper sales
brochure.

FWIW, we have this album so we may as well use it. Anyone have
anything they wish to share?

Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at:
My Electric Car at:
Mid-America EAA chapter at:
Join the EV List at:

Hi folks,

I just posted 29 pages of Citicar wiring diagrams on the C-Cars files
section at:



These are from a 1976 Citicar service manual and are rather poor
quality, but better than nothing.

I hope someone finds them usefull.

Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at:
My Electric Car at:
Mid-America EAA chapter at:
Join the EV List at:

Hi Anthony,
I have some wiring diagrams for a City Car and CommutaCar - what part do you
need - dashboard, motor control, motor power.....?
Tim

I just got a 1979 coomutacar with some wireing problems. It would be
great if I could find The wirinf diagram for the model. If anyone has
info. on were I can get a copy it would help me alot!!!

Anthony

Hi John,
Thanks for the pointer, and yes, that is a valuable page for CCar owners. I
had seen it before and tried calling Jay-Parr Supply (which I think is Jay-
somethingelse now) and was told that they no longer carry the CommutaCar
wheel cylinder parts. I even called Bendix (made the CommutaCar brakes), and
while they were helpful they had no listing of the parts I need. So, I went
with the Nu-Kar parts, and am hoping for the best. I honed the wheel
cylinder bores and still have some pitting, but if the leakage is slow enough
I will just empty the boots once in a while.

I had to laugh at your "rubwheel@..." email address - you're a CCar
driver for sure. Do you have a City Car or a CommutaCar, and what are you
planning to do to your brakes?

Thanks for the help,
Tim

Tim,
You may have already seen this, but here's a site with some brake
part references:



Hope this helps. I'll be doing some brake work soon myself. Not sure
what I'll find when I open them up...spiders, anyway.

- John Gill
- rubwheel@...


--- In C-Car@y..., tdunning@c... wrote:

Hi,
Has anyone found a modern replacement drum brake for the CCar? I

have

not been able to find the rubber parts for the existing brakes

except

from NU-KAR at a high price, and they say their supplier has gone

out

of business so parts may be unavailable at any price. I looked into

a

7" trailer brake, but the mounting bolt pattern was too large.
Thanks!
Tim Dunning
tdunning@c...
614-863-6522

Hi,
Has anyone found a modern replacement drum brake for the CCar? I have
not been able to find the rubber parts for the existing brakes except
from NU-KAR at a high price, and they say their supplier has gone out
of business so parts may be unavailable at any price. I looked into a
7" trailer brake, but the mounting bolt pattern was too large.
Thanks!
Tim Dunning
tdunning@...
614-863-6522

Sorry about that folks, it works better if you write something before hitting send, doesn't it! :^)

Steve have you learned any more about this fuse problem? I have to admit I am suspicious of the motor. Is it possible your getting current flow through the windings or armature to the chassis? This would create a huge short to ground and really gobble the power, without leaving anything easy to identify as the source. You might want to check for continuity from any of the motor leads to the chassis.

FWIW, my Citicar seemed to work fine for years, though the range was not all that great. Then I had the motor rebuilt, and the shop said the armature was full of moisture. After 14 hours in the oven it was almost perfect but not 100%. When I put it back in the car the results were amazing. More HP and much better range.

Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'94 Dodge TEVan
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at:
My Electric Car at:
Mid-America EAA chapter at:
Join the EV List at:

From: Steven Evans <se55757@...>
Reply-To: C-Car@...
To: C-Car@...
Subject: [C-Car] 300 amp fuse
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:04:52 -0500

I recently brought an 1980 Commuta-car back to life for a man over in
IA. It is in very good shaped and with some cleaning and new batteries
everything worked correctly. After he got it home, they went about 5
blocks and blew the 300 amp fuse. We went over to see what was wrong
and everything is wired correctly. I replaced the fuse (between the two
contactors) with a piece of copper strap thinking that we had the wrong
fuse. Everything works great but the strap gets VERY HOT. It heats up
quickly and is the only thing even getting warm (highest motor temp
120). The car is rolling freely, accelerates good, and appears no
reason for pulling so many amps. Has any one had this problem? On my
Citi-car someone replaced the fuse with some wraps of small wire
(homemade fuse?) and it works fine. I have never seen it get more than
a little warm. Any advise would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Steve Evans
Crete, NE 68333



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Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'94 Dodge TEVan
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at:
My Electric Car at:
Mid-America EAA chapter at:
Join the EV List at:

_________________________________________________________________
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I have had some e-mails inquiring about the shocks I used on my 1976
Citicar. Here are the part numbers Front #POL30MC1F Rear POH12NC2H
These numbers were found on the shocks as its been over a year since
I installed them and could not find the paper work. They are Gabrial
Gas shocks,after spending many hours at the auto supply store I found
that these shocks were only about 3/4" taller and about 1" wider then
the shocks that were on the car. It may not be the best replacement
but works well for me. Please use your own discretion as to the use
of this shock on your Citicar. Cost was around $100.00 for all 4
Regards
Carl

I HAVE SEEN FUSES FAIL DUE TO CORROSION ALSO THE FUSE COULD HAVE
FAILED DUE TO A POOR CONNECTION. I WOULD CHECK THE CONNECTIONS WITH A
OHM METER AND CHECK THE CURRENT WITH THE CAR RUNNING.BUT REPLACE THE
FUSE IT'S IMPORTANT AND COULD PREVENT DAMAGE OR FIRE IF THERE SHOULD
EVER BE A EQUIPMENT FAILURE OR ACCIDENT--- In C-Car@y..., Steven
Evans <se55757@a...> wrote:

I recently brought an 1980 Commuta-car back to life for a man over

in

IA. It is in very good shaped and with some cleaning and new

batteries

everything worked correctly. After he got it home, they went about

5

blocks and blew the 300 amp fuse. We went over to see what was

wrong

and everything is wired correctly. I replaced the fuse (between

the two

contactors) with a piece of copper strap thinking that we had the

wrong

fuse. Everything works great but the strap gets VERY HOT. It

heats up

quickly and is the only thing even getting warm (highest motor temp
120). The car is rolling freely, accelerates good, and appears no
reason for pulling so many amps. Has any one had this problem? On

my

Citi-car someone replaced the fuse with some wraps of small wire
(homemade fuse?) and it works fine. I have never seen it get more

than

a little warm. Any advise would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Steve Evans
Crete, NE 68333

I recently brought an 1980 Commuta-car back to life for a man over in
IA. It is in very good shaped and with some cleaning and new batteries
everything worked correctly. After he got it home, they went about 5
blocks and blew the 300 amp fuse. We went over to see what was wrong
and everything is wired correctly. I replaced the fuse (between the two
contactors) with a piece of copper strap thinking that we had the wrong
fuse. Everything works great but the strap gets VERY HOT. It heats up
quickly and is the only thing even getting warm (highest motor temp
120). The car is rolling freely, accelerates good, and appears no
reason for pulling so many amps. Has any one had this problem? On my
Citi-car someone replaced the fuse with some wraps of small wire
(homemade fuse?) and it works fine. I have never seen it get more than
a little warm. Any advise would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Steve Evans
Crete, NE 68333