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In 1970 after the MIT and Cal Tech coast to coast electric car race I just had to make my own ev. So with a WWll surplus GE CM77 aircraft starter/generator, 10 6v truck batteries, a copper slide switct to tap battery voltages from 12 to 60 volts, and a toaster heating element with taps to regulate the motor field I was off in a 1960 fiat with top speed of 55mph and full regeneration. In 1976 I wanted something lighter and less prone to rust in this salty CT. The local Buick dealer who sold 17 citycars stopped selling them but knew someone who used one for patrolling a trailer park. (You just can't run all night on the starting resistor without burning it out). So I bought it one year old in 1977 and have been using it since, registered and insured.T he first trouble was with motor brushes. If one wears so low that the spring bottoms out, the brush looses contact with the commutator and the opposite takes all the load and the pigtail (or shunt) burns out. Next problem was brakes. The regular DOT4 brake fluid causes pitting of tha cylinder or caliper bore. At about 10k miles I changed to silicone DOT5 brake fluid and haven't leaked any fluid since at 30k miles. I only blew 2 fuses, one while starting up rolling forward with selector on reverse, and once starting up with the brake on with the interlock jumped out. I changed some contactors once. While commuting to work before retiring I added a 2volt cell to each 24 volt bank to keep up with the rush hour traffic. All for now if I can fit it in, Don

Hi Blaine,
I would sure like to know the mods you did to your comutacar to
achieve 50 mph. I am in the process of restoring my 1980 comutacar. I
seem to remember the car did around 37 mph tops, with 48 volts, does
this sound about right?
Are you using the stock 6 hp ge motor? Do the brushes burn up?
Please fill me in, my inquiring mind would like to know.
Thanks, Louie
PS sorry I cannot help with the spedo gear.



--- In C-Car@y..., Blaine Wills <pinto_one@y...> wrote:

Hello I am new to the group and have a 81 commuta car
,72 volts with a curtis controler, I live over here in
missisippi , kind of flat here with black top roads
and found out that my speedometer is 10 mph slow ,got
stopped doing over 50 in a 35, I think that the angle
drive that bolts to the end of the motor is the wrong
ratio, its marked 3.25 on the end , I have the hi
speed rear, does any one with the low speed (that
reads 10mph fast)rear want to trade angele drives,
called new car but they havent a clue, anybody have
one they want to sell please let me know , thanks Blaine

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50 in a C-car? Wow! I'd frame the ticket.

Mike

Hello I am new to the group and have a 81 commuta car
,72 volts with a curtis controler, I live over here in
missisippi , kind of flat here with black top roads
and found out that my speedometer is 10 mph slow ,got
stopped doing over 50 in a 35, I think that the angle
drive that bolts to the end of the motor is the wrong
ratio, its marked 3.25 on the end , I have the hi
speed rear, does any one with the low speed (that
reads 10mph fast)rear want to trade angele drives,
called new car but they havent a clue, anybody have
one they want to sell please let me know , thanks Blaine

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.

Hi Tim,
I am actually looking for the contacts for the contactors. Both of
my comutacar contactors have bad contacts. I took the contactors
apart to try to clean up the contacts, but the silver contacts are
eroded away.
What really killed the contactors, was the movable contact that is
screwed to the relay armature unscrewed itself, and decided to make a
nice path to ground, while the car was running, spark spark, burn
burn!
If your contactor is in good shape, I would be happy to purchase it
from you.
The company I was trying to purchase contacts from today SMH inc,
refused to sell to me because I am not a dealer. I told them I would
be happy to pay retail, but they would still not sell to me, bummer.
So my quest for contacts continues...........
Take Care,
Louie from NJ

- In C-Car@y..., Tim Dunning <tdunning@c...> wrote:

Hi,
I'm not sure if you are looking for the parallel/series contactor

for Commuta

-Car, but I think I have a unit that may be just that in my junk

box. I will

not be able to look for it until Friday, but will let you know what

it seems

to be.
Thanks,
Tim

Thanks for the info Ross. I just found out tonight that the

contacts

for the citicar and the comutacar are different! My comutacar
contacts have a much longer t section where the wiring connects. I
have had no luck so far finding a dealer with contacts. I found a
fork lift company on the internet with a on line catalogue and

found

a match for 1 of the stationary contacts. I had never noticed that
there is a right and left contact. each contact has a "flag"

section

that is larger on opposite sides. This is the area where the

ceramic

spacer mounts. The online catalogue has measurements which matched

my

1 contact exactly, just need to match the other 1, so far cannot

find

it.
I will contact the company tommorow, and hopefully find a match.
When I get the proper contacts, I will post the part numbers.
Hopefully, then no 1 will have to go through the crap I have gone
through trying to locate contacts for the contactor.
Take Care All,
Louie (aka Electric Lou) LoL







- In C-Car@y..., dconrad@d... wrote:

Well this is what we found out.
The replacements we found were identical to the old parts.

Oddly

they were from a brand new contactor assembly, so new the

forklift

parts guy could
only find one distributor that had started selling them. They

were

made by Caterpillar or Daewoo and we found them in an Entroupa

Parts

Catalogue.
Every distributor had a different ID number on them, of which

there

were about 12. Since the contactor assembly used on the Citicar

was

made by HB
electric, also search under HB Prestolite.
Our 300 amp fuse is good as new so we haven't had to look

for

any.

Somehow we want to include a fuse between the batteries and the
contactor incase
of problems.

-Ross Conrad

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C-Car-unsubscribe@...



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Hi,
I'm not sure if you are looking for the parallel/series contactor for Commuta
-Car, but I think I have a unit that may be just that in my junk box. I will
not be able to look for it until Friday, but will let you know what it seems
to be.
Thanks,
Tim

Hi Don,

It looks like your post came though just fine. If you drove a Citicar that
long I am sure you have quite a bit to share. Feel free to post it anytime.

Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at:
My Electric Car at:
Mid-America EAA chapter at:
Join the EV List at:

Thanks for the info Ross. I just found out tonight that the contacts
for the citicar and the comutacar are different! My comutacar
contacts have a much longer t section where the wiring connects. I
have had no luck so far finding a dealer with contacts. I found a
fork lift company on the internet with a on line catalogue and found
a match for 1 of the stationary contacts. I had never noticed that
there is a right and left contact. each contact has a "flag" section
that is larger on opposite sides. This is the area where the ceramic
spacer mounts. The online catalogue has measurements which matched my
1 contact exactly, just need to match the other 1, so far cannot find
it.
I will contact the company tommorow, and hopefully find a match.
When I get the proper contacts, I will post the part numbers.
Hopefully, then no 1 will have to go through the crap I have gone
through trying to locate contacts for the contactor.
Take Care All,
Louie (aka Electric Lou) LoL







- In C-Car@y..., dconrad@d... wrote:

Well this is what we found out.
The replacements we found were identical to the old parts.

Oddly

they were from a brand new contactor assembly, so new the forklift
parts guy could
only find one distributor that had started selling them. They were
made by Caterpillar or Daewoo and we found them in an Entroupa

Parts

Catalogue.
Every distributor had a different ID number on them, of which there
were about 12. Since the contactor assembly used on the Citicar

was

made by HB
electric, also search under HB Prestolite.
Our 300 amp fuse is good as new so we haven't had to look for

any.

Somehow we want to include a fuse between the batteries and the
contactor incase
of problems.

-Ross Conrad

Tim,

I am in need of brake pads for my Comutacar. Can you tell me the name
of the brake shop that you got yours. Maybe they can help me. I need
1 set for the rear. All others seem to be OK. Thanks.

PM




--- In C-Car@y..., Tim Dunning <tdunning@c...> wrote:

Hi,
I also had trouble with my Ccar brakes. I was able to take the old

brake

shoes to a brakes specialty shop here in Columbus, Ohio, and they

matched

them with ones they had on the shelf. The shop took my old shoes

for 'cores'

to reline for the next customer. So that worked out well.

Unfortunately my

wheel cylinders were corroded and honing them didn't totally clean

it up. I

was not able to find replacements anywhere. I tried forklift and

golf cart

places, called Bendix, all to no avail. Finally bought new rubber

from NuKar

Your message came through ok. I am interested in hearing about your
experiences. I have just recently acquired a 1980 comutacar.

Thanks Jeff

Thank you for the help. You have reminded me that in the Los Angeles area
there are businesses that specialize in vehicle registrations. I also have a
copy of Hemmings setting around - I will look inside.

Again, thank you,


Jeff

Thank you for the info. Your ideas have reminded me that there are
businesses in Los Angeles that specialize in vehicle registrations.

Thanks Jeff

Here's some information on decvoding VINs that may help:


If that's not enough go to

and search for
vin decode

On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Jeff Follin wrote:

I recently obtained a Comutacar. It is in very good condition,
having spent the last 10 years or so in a warehouse. It appears
totally complete and unmolested. It has 977 original miles, and all
lights and turn signals. The batteries are very bad, but I did charge
them for a while and I got the car to drive in a circle (slowly!) so
I know the car will run. Master cylinder needs to be rebuilt, and
new tires. I am about to clean it up so I can drive it around town.

Unfortunatly, I know very little about it. I did not get a pink
slip or registration papers, and it had no license plate on it. All
I can find is the VIN# 1111B1C2XAS000322 on the dash. The California
Dept of Motor Vehicles has no record of this vehicle.

My questions are:

1) Can anyone decode the above VIN and tell me something about the
car, such as the model year?

2) I assume the car was meant to be driven on the street (not the
freeway). How do I register the car for the street? The problem is
because I have no pink slip, registration, or license plate, and the
DMV has no record of it, they are requiring me to get a "Manufacturer
Statement of Origin" - I believe that is the form sent to the
government by the vehicle manufacturer showing the vehicle meets
Federal vehicle standards. Does this form exist somewhere? Does
anyone have any other ideas?

All the CA DMV could offer is registration as a golf cart (for
use on max 25 mph streets), or as a "low speed vehicle" - must go
between 20 and 25 mph and can drive only on streets posted 35mph or
less. This seems like a waste of time.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am looking forward to
chasing my friend around in his 1923 Ford Model T. Restoring this
car will be simple compared to dealing with the CA DMV.

I can e-mail pictures of the car if necessary.

Many Thanks, Jeff



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Hi Jeff and all,

You might want to check with some of the title companies that deal with
antique cars. There should be a number listed in Hemmings Motor News, an
automotive classified ad publication you can find in most bookstores. If I
am reading things correctly, the tenth digit is an "A" which makes yours a
1980 model.

Keep in mind the car may never have been titled in California, either
because it came from another state, or because it was never registered and
used on the street. Many C-cars were used as non-roadgoing service vehicles
on large private areas like trailer courts and commercial properties. It
should be possible to have a title company search all states to see if it
were ever registered. At one time Sebring Auto Cycle had all the sales
records from the C-cars, but now that they are gone I don't know where that
information ended up.

Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at:
My Electric Car at:
Mid-America EAA chapter at:
Join the EV List at:

I recently obtained a Comutacar. It is in very good condition,
having spent the last 10 years or so in a warehouse. It appears
totally complete and unmolested. It has 977 original miles, and all
lights and turn signals. The batteries are very bad, but I did charge
them for a while and I got the car to drive in a circle (slowly!) so
I know the car will run. Master cylinder needs to be rebuilt, and
new tires. I am about to clean it up so I can drive it around town.

Unfortunatly, I know very little about it. I did not get a pink
slip or registration papers, and it had no license plate on it. All
I can find is the VIN# 1111B1C2XAS000322 on the dash. The California
Dept of Motor Vehicles has no record of this vehicle.

My questions are:

1) Can anyone decode the above VIN and tell me something about the
car, such as the model year?

2) I assume the car was meant to be driven on the street (not the
freeway). How do I register the car for the street? The problem is
because I have no pink slip, registration, or license plate, and the
DMV has no record of it, they are requiring me to get a "Manufacturer
Statement of Origin" - I believe that is the form sent to the
government by the vehicle manufacturer showing the vehicle meets
Federal vehicle standards. Does this form exist somewhere? Does
anyone have any other ideas?

All the CA DMV could offer is registration as a golf cart (for
use on max 25 mph streets), or as a "low speed vehicle" - must go
between 20 and 25 mph and can drive only on streets posted 35mph or
less. This seems like a waste of time.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am looking forward to
chasing my friend around in his 1923 Ford Model T. Restoring this
car will be simple compared to dealing with the CA DMV.

I can e-mail pictures of the car if necessary.

Many Thanks, Jeff

Well this is what we found out.
The replacements we found were identical to the old parts. Oddly
they were from a brand new contactor assembly, so new the forklift
parts guy could
only find one distributor that had started selling them. They were
made by Caterpillar or Daewoo and we found them in an Entroupa Parts
Catalogue.
Every distributor had a different ID number on them, of which there
were about 12. Since the contactor assembly used on the Citicar was
made by HB
electric, also search under HB Prestolite.
Our 300 amp fuse is good as new so we haven't had to look for any.
Somehow we want to include a fuse between the batteries and the
contactor incase
of problems.

-Ross Conrad

Hi,
I also had trouble with my Ccar brakes. I was able to take the old brake
shoes to a brakes specialty shop here in Columbus, Ohio, and they matched
them with ones they had on the shelf. The shop took my old shoes for 'cores'
to reline for the next customer. So that worked out well. Unfortunately my
wheel cylinders were corroded and honing them didn't totally clean it up. I
was not able to find replacements anywhere. I tried forklift and golf cart
places, called Bendix, all to no avail. Finally bought new rubber from NuKar



at a horrible price, installed, and it seems to be holding so far. Though I
haven't pulled the boots to see if there is seepage... The NuKar person said
that his supplier for the wheel cylinder rubber parts was going out of
business, so he might not be able to get anymore.

One EVlister said he had been able to put new trailer brakes on his Ccar, but
the ones I looked at seemed to have a different bolt mounting pattern, and no
provision for the parking brake cable. I guess you could make adaptors and
modify for the parking brake, but I do not have good metal-working equipment.
Brakes on the Ccar are an almost insoluble problem unless you have a machine
shop! I even looked into relining the wheel cylinders, but apparently there
are only a few places that do that, and the guy I talked to was dubious about
the "V" shape of the cylinder. I suspect it could be done with some patience
in getting the setup right. Probably finding a way to use modern trailer
brakes, even if it does require some custom work, is the very best way to go.

This is my experience so far. Also, I have some extra rear brake drums that
have been turned and are ready to use if anyone is looking for those.

Tim

Hi all,
small world! I just got brakes back on my comutacar last week. I
have only temporary 60 ah batteries installed just to move the car
around until i get new battery boxes built. While stomping the pedal
I heard some sizzeling and arcing. Turns out something broke in the
core of the contactor and allowed the contacts to go out of alignment
and burn up. So I am also in need of contacts, Please keep me posted
on your contact progress.
I will pull my bad contactor this week, i will let you know what i
find broken inside.
P.S. I did manage to get 30 mph with small 12 volt 60 ah gel
batteries.
I still am in need of wheel cylinder rebuild kits, and trying to
locate brakes shoes or part #'s for them.
Take Care, Louie

Check with your local electric forklift service company. The company that
made the contactors on the C-Cars has gone out of business, but I believe
the contacts are a standard design. The forklift folks should be able get
replacement contacts for you.

Also, you might want to locate a CO2 type fire extinguisher for the EV work
area. That powder in the standard fire extinguishers is corrosive and is
the last thing you want to get on your EV.

Before you do more testing, make a lightweight 10 GA wire jumper to replace
one of the large battery (positive to negative) interconnect cables on each
half of your battery pack. Fuse them with 30 Amp fuses. These will be too
small to permit the car to be driven, but will be large enough for testing
the charging and drive systems, as long as you have the drive wheels in the
air. This way any additional wiring problems will simply blow the fuse not
blow up major parts. Once you get everything working without problems then
you can put the regular cables back in and drive the car.

Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at:
My Electric Car at:
Mid-America EAA chapter at:
Join the EV List at:

We have had a slight setback in getting our Citicar running for
school. Once all the batteries had been installed and the wires hooked
up, we felt it was time to see if everything worked. With a flip of
the key the voltmeter came up and some other dash lights.
Upon releasing the parking brake, a blue spark came from the
center tower of the speed control. Lots of smoke followed and I'm now
glad none of the batteries blew up. In the height of the excitement we
used a fire extinguisher, which happens to leave a nice corrosive
powder on everything.
We removed the contactor and found that two wires were burned and
one set of points welded together.

In the manual I read:

On some early production vehicles, the ground wire was made of 16 guage
wire. This wire could melt during the charge cycle and cause the
controller harness to short. The complete low power controller harness
would have to be remade.

This seems to describe what happened to us. We haven't used the
charger but if the previous owner had, maybe he left a surprise for us!
Now we are looking to replace the points that were welded
together. This seems to be the only evidence of the incident other
than the black soot on some parts. Picture of what we need is at :



If you can help us out, it'd be appreciated!

Ross, Matt, and Jeremy
dconrad@...