I have a suspicion that it may be the same cable as used on a 1976 Pacer. ?I replaced the speedo cable in my 1976 Citicar at one point, but no longer have the reference number for the ¡®original¡¯ vehicle. ?Some parts for C-Cars were originally sourced as stock parts for small cars of the era, such as brake master cylinders.
Tom Keenan
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Well, I couldn't find a cable nos, and I found one through Facebook, used that had a funny end compared to mine that was expensive. so I got to visit a nice place named Bob's speedometer about 45 minutes from here.? It's a shame it's a quarantine state right now, as I bet Jeff the fellow who is making it is a wealth of information,? but conversation is short now. My cable is being built tomorrow for close to $150.? Bit more than I expected,? but didn't? think I'd have to go the custom built route, so it seems fair, and less than that used one was offered for. Maybe have it installed tomorrow.? I would suggest if you add the speedo option to this motor have d&d leave the shaft out the front but leave only 1/2 inch. Then have them drill a centered hole to fit that arctic cat speedo adapter.? That's easier than what I did but someone had to try. Lol. Luckily I have the tools and resources to do a bit of stuff myself. There are still 3 speedo shops in a relatively close distance to me still in operation. I'll make some calls soon if I can't find a used one.?
Speedometer was more complicated, but it should work if I can locate a cable. It's about 114"? I bet it fits something else and can be bought off a shelf somewhere but I'm striking out so far. Might have to go custom built cable. For the moment I'm using my phone GPS speedo and its ok till I find a cable.?
That's great Dave,
? ? ? How did the speedometer work?
What HP is the motor rated at. I'm close to buying one too.
--
Cheers
Tony P
1980 Orange Comuta-car
_._,_._,_
|
Well, I couldn't find a cable nos, and I found one through Facebook, used that had a funny end compared to mine that was expensive. so I got to visit a nice place named Bob's speedometer about 45 minutes from here.? It's a shame it's a quarantine state right now, as I bet Jeff the fellow who is making it is a wealth of information,? but conversation is short now. My cable is being built tomorrow for close to $150.? Bit more than I expected,? but didn't? think I'd have to go the custom built route, so it seems fair, and less than that used one was offered for. Maybe have it installed tomorrow.?
I would suggest if you add the speedo option to this motor have d&d leave the shaft out the front but leave only 1/2 inch. Then have them drill a centered hole to fit that arctic cat speedo adapter.? That's easier than what I did but someone had to try. Lol. Luckily I have the tools and resources to do a bit of stuff myself. There are still 3 speedo shops in a relatively close distance to me still in operation. I'll make some calls soon if I can't find a used one.?
Speedometer was more complicated, but it should work if I can locate a cable. It's about 114"? I bet it fits something else and can be bought off a shelf somewhere but I'm striking out so far. Might have to go custom built cable. For the moment I'm using my phone GPS speedo and its ok till I find a cable.?
That's great Dave,
? ? ? How did the speedometer work?
What HP is the motor rated at. I'm close to buying one too.
--
Cheers
Tony P
1980 Orange Comuta-car
|
I would suggest if you add the speedo option to this motor have d&d leave the shaft out the front but leave only 1/2 inch. Then have them drill a centered hole to fit that arctic cat speedo adapter.? That's easier than what I did but someone had to try. Lol. Luckily I have the tools and resources to do a bit of stuff myself. There are still 3 speedo shops in a relatively close distance to me still in operation. I'll make some calls soon if I can't find a used one.?
Speedometer was more complicated, but it should work if I can locate a cable. It's about 114"? I bet it fits something else and can be bought off a shelf somewhere but I'm striking out so far. Might have to go custom built cable. For the moment I'm using my phone GPS speedo and its ok till I find a cable.?
That's great Dave,
? ? ? How did the speedometer work?
What HP is the motor rated at. I'm close to buying one too.
--
Cheers
Tony P
1980 Orange Comuta-car
|
Speedometer was more complicated, but it should work if I can locate a cable. It's about 114"? I bet it fits something else and can be bought off a shelf somewhere but I'm striking out so far. Might have to go custom built cable. For the moment I'm using my phone GPS speedo and its ok till I find a cable.?
That's great Dave,
? ? ? How did the speedometer work?
What HP is the motor rated at. I'm close to buying one too.
--
Cheers
Tony P
1980 Orange Comuta-car
|
That's great Dave,
? ? ? How did the speedometer work?
What HP is the motor rated at. I'm close to buying one too.
--
Cheers
Tony P
1980 Orange Comuta-car
|
The motor comes complete with the rear plate that mounts to the differential, and the seal.? The ge mount can not be used with the d&d. So the new motor needs to be disassembled to remove that plate, then that plate bolts directly to the dana axle with a paper gasket. I had some gasket paper laying around,? but the motor did not come with one. After that the motor slides on the spline and can be united with it's back half that's already on the axle. I'm really pleased so far. I've done some brush break in and a few test rides. It feels very similar to the original but I have not been pushing it too hard. It sounds great too!
Dave, does it connect directly to the differential or onto the adapte that you showed with the measurements??
--
Cheers
Tony P
1980 Orange Comuta-car
|
Dave, does it connect directly to the differential or onto the adapte that you showed with the measurements??
--
Cheers
Tony P
1980 Orange Comuta-car
|
Barely fits. Ready for cable. Test drive near!? I moved it 2 ft forward and reverse. All good so far!
On Sun, May 3, 2020, 2:17 PM NeonJohn < jgd@...> wrote:
On 5/2/20 5:19 PM, Nicholas Gee wrote:
> Only downside is cost., sumit racing has one but it is $350
>
>
Oh I wouldn't recommend anyone buying from Scummit. ? I took at just one
other vendor - .? Their basic unit is about $300. But let's
compare that to getting the stock reading correctly.? A conventional
speedo rotates a magnet disk inside an aluminum cup which in turn is
attached to the pointer and the assembly is suspended on clock-type
bearings.? When the magnet turns it generates eddy current (drag) in the
cup.? This force is balanced against a clockwork-type spring.? The
pointer moves upscale accordingly.
The magnet, usually a ceramic one, slowly loses its strength over the
years.? Accordingly, the speedo reads slow.? As found, my Citi's speedo
was 9 MPH slow compared to my radar gun.
The solution is to recharge the magnet.? Speedo shops charge
significantly for this service, especially if they have to take the
speedo out of the car.
Responding to demand, I designed and built a capacitor discharge
recharger.? The components were sized to slightly overcharge the
magnet.? Then I'd spin up the speedo, using a Strob-O-Tach to get the
correct speed.? I used an audio tape head demagnetizer conned to AC to
slowly nip off small bits of magnetism (degaussing) until the pointer
read exactly.
The sentinel point for conventional cars was 60MPS and 30 for Citis and
Commutas.
Most of my customers drove an old/antique car who had gotten a speeding
ticket while the driver thought he was obeying the law.? I gave my
customer a fancy certificate of calibration that listed the as-found and
as-left indications.? That was always enough to get the ticket dismissed.
So now we have a calibrated speedometer that is still old and worn in
other places.? The face is faded and maybe has rust streaks (mine did).?
I charged $75 for this service and did NOT take the dash apart to remove
the speedo.
Next is the cable.? Good luck finding a NOS cable.? Scummit sells a
cable rebuild kit for a nominal price but they do not sell the outer
housing nor the screw on attachments.? The old attachments are crimped
onto the old cable so, absent a lot of work expanding out the crimp.? If
you put a new cable into an old housing, the combination of lubricant
and rust will quickly grind it down.
You might have a new cable made if you can find a speedo shop still
open.? Every one between Kentucky and Atlanta that I knew of have
closed.? No demand.? With modern cars, the speedo can be calibrated
through the OBD-II port.
A new cable might cost $50, especially if the mechanic has to install
the new one.
If something has to be done to make or fix the cable attachment to the
motor, more money.? I'm afraid to even try to estimate the cost.? If all
you need is a new gearbox with a new one, you might check with
.? Can't recall his name but I know he monitors this
list.? When Vanguard went out of business, he bought up all their
inventory of parts and incomplete cars.? He's likely to have a NOS
gearbox.? I'll take a SWAG at $75.
So.? we have $75 ??? ??? Speedo recal
?????????????????????? $75??? ??? New cable installed
?????????????????????? $50??? ??? New cable fabricated
?????????????????????? $75??? ??? motor cable attachment attention
???????????????????? ====
????????????????????? $ 275
Pretty close to the GPS unit and we haven't accounted for the massive
amount of manual involved.? Makes the GPS unit look pretty good.
Like I mentioned in the earlier message, a servo motor is available that
screws onto the cable attachment at the speedo.? This lets one keep the
old gauge and calibrate it electronically from the GPS unit which could
be cable-tied out of sight behind the dash.
john
|
On 5/2/20 5:19 PM, Nicholas Gee wrote: Only downside is cost., sumit racing has one but it is $350
Oh I wouldn't recommend anyone buying from Scummit. ? I took at just one other vendor - rockauto.com.? Their basic unit is about $300. But let's compare that to getting the stock reading correctly.? A conventional speedo rotates a magnet disk inside an aluminum cup which in turn is attached to the pointer and the assembly is suspended on clock-type bearings.? When the magnet turns it generates eddy current (drag) in the cup.? This force is balanced against a clockwork-type spring.? The pointer moves upscale accordingly. The magnet, usually a ceramic one, slowly loses its strength over the years.? Accordingly, the speedo reads slow.? As found, my Citi's speedo was 9 MPH slow compared to my radar gun. The solution is to recharge the magnet.? Speedo shops charge significantly for this service, especially if they have to take the speedo out of the car. Responding to demand, I designed and built a capacitor discharge recharger.? The components were sized to slightly overcharge the magnet.? Then I'd spin up the speedo, using a Strob-O-Tach to get the correct speed.? I used an audio tape head demagnetizer conned to AC to slowly nip off small bits of magnetism (degaussing) until the pointer read exactly. The sentinel point for conventional cars was 60MPS and 30 for Citis and Commutas. Most of my customers drove an old/antique car who had gotten a speeding ticket while the driver thought he was obeying the law.? I gave my customer a fancy certificate of calibration that listed the as-found and as-left indications.? That was always enough to get the ticket dismissed. So now we have a calibrated speedometer that is still old and worn in other places.? The face is faded and maybe has rust streaks (mine did).? I charged $75 for this service and did NOT take the dash apart to remove the speedo. Next is the cable.? Good luck finding a NOS cable.? Scummit sells a cable rebuild kit for a nominal price but they do not sell the outer housing nor the screw on attachments.? The old attachments are crimped onto the old cable so, absent a lot of work expanding out the crimp.? If you put a new cable into an old housing, the combination of lubricant and rust will quickly grind it down. You might have a new cable made if you can find a speedo shop still open.? Every one between Kentucky and Atlanta that I knew of have closed.? No demand.? With modern cars, the speedo can be calibrated through the OBD-II port. A new cable might cost $50, especially if the mechanic has to install the new one. If something has to be done to make or fix the cable attachment to the motor, more money.? I'm afraid to even try to estimate the cost.? If all you need is a new gearbox with a new one, you might check with evperformance.com.? Can't recall his name but I know he monitors this list.? When Vanguard went out of business, he bought up all their inventory of parts and incomplete cars.? He's likely to have a NOS gearbox.? I'll take a SWAG at $75. So.? we have $75 ??? ??? Speedo recal ????????????????????? $75??? ??? New cable installed ????????????????????? $50??? ??? New cable fabricated ????????????????????? $75??? ??? motor cable attachment attention ??????????????????? ==== ???????????????????? $ 275 Pretty close to the GPS unit and we haven't accounted for the massive amount of manual involved.? Makes the GPS unit look pretty good. Like I mentioned in the earlier message, a servo motor is available that screws onto the cable attachment at the speedo.? This lets one keep the old gauge and calibrate it electronically from the GPS unit which could be cable-tied out of sight behind the dash. john
|
Also I really need a new speedo cable.? If anyone has one they would part with? I'd buy it. I'm expecting a custom built one to be $50?or so.?
I like the GPS speedo,? however... very few things are labeled vanguard on the citicar. The speedo is one. I'd be sad to loose that. But I would if I can't make it work. I do think I made it work. Check my pics. I made an adapter to sandwich the original drive onto this. It works on the bench. We will see after some miles. And I have to find some matching bolts for it. And peel all the plastic off the face of the stainless scrap I used. I also attached a pic of the ge outlet matched to this motor which could probably work.?
Only downside is cost., sumit racing has one but it is $350
Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android Device
-------- Original message -------- Date: 5/2/20 3:59 PM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [c-car] Replacement motor
Instead of all that hassle, you might look at a GPS-based speedo.? I think VDO makes them.? Probably other instrument manufacturers. It is a very hansom analog gauge with an odometer.? What is really great is that it has an optional servo motor output designed to drive the OEM speedo. I had to buy one when the cable on one of my hotrod Datsun Z cars seized.? The torque broke the speedo drive shaft coming from the transmission.? I thought about all the work it would take to change out that shaft and oped for the GPS unit. It containes enough electronics to dead-reckon through loss of signal such as going through a tunnel.? I have several moving mode police radar.? I tried one against the speedo.? When I set the radar unit to "display patrol car speed", the two agreed to the resolution of the radar.? It didn't display decimal MPH. If the unit is wired according to the instructions, the GPS receiver is always on.? Thus, unless you park in a metal-roofed garage, the speedo will register the car's first motion. I was completely satisfied. John On 5/1/20 11:38 AM, Dave Brice wrote: > I left the shaft coming out the front.? Tonight I will modify something to > make it fit hopefully.?? If not, the shaft out the front is keyed and I > could use a sensor and aftermarket speedometer easy. But I'd prefer the > original. my cable is fubar though after the motor failure. > >
|
I like the GPS speedo,? however... very few things are labeled vanguard on the citicar. The speedo is one. I'd be sad to loose that. But I would if I can't make it work. I do think I made it work. Check my pics. I made an adapter to sandwich the original drive onto this. It works on the bench. We will see after some miles. And I have to find some matching bolts for it. And peel all the plastic off the face of the stainless scrap I used. I also attached a pic of the ge outlet matched to this motor which could probably work.?
Only downside is cost., sumit racing has one but it is $350
Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android Device
-------- Original message -------- Date: 5/2/20 3:59 PM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [c-car] Replacement motor
Instead of all that hassle, you might look at a GPS-based speedo.? I think VDO makes them.? Probably other instrument manufacturers. It is a very hansom analog gauge with an odometer.? What is really great is that it has an optional servo motor output designed to drive the OEM speedo. I had to buy one when the cable on one of my hotrod Datsun Z cars seized.? The torque broke the speedo drive shaft coming from the transmission.? I thought about all the work it would take to change out that shaft and oped for the GPS unit. It containes enough electronics to dead-reckon through loss of signal such as going through a tunnel.? I have several moving mode police radar.? I tried one against the speedo.? When I set the radar unit to "display patrol car speed", the two agreed to the resolution of the radar.? It didn't display decimal MPH. If the unit is wired according to the instructions, the GPS receiver is always on.? Thus, unless you park in a metal-roofed garage, the speedo will register the car's first motion. I was completely satisfied. John On 5/1/20 11:38 AM, Dave Brice wrote: > I left the shaft coming out the front.? Tonight I will modify something to > make it fit hopefully.?? If not, the shaft out the front is keyed and I > could use a sensor and aftermarket speedometer easy. But I'd prefer the > original. my cable is fubar though after the motor failure. > >
|
Only downside is cost., sumit racing has one but it is $350
Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android Device
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Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: NeonJohn <jgd@...> Date: 5/2/20 3:59 PM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [c-car] Replacement motor
Instead of all that hassle, you might look at a GPS-based speedo.? I think VDO makes them.? Probably other instrument manufacturers. It is a very hansom analog gauge with an odometer.? What is really great is that it has an optional servo motor output designed to drive the OEM speedo. I had to buy one when the cable on one of my hotrod Datsun Z cars seized.? The torque broke the speedo drive shaft coming from the transmission.? I thought about all the work it would take to change out that shaft and oped for the GPS unit. It containes enough electronics to dead-reckon through loss of signal such as going through a tunnel.? I have several moving mode police radar.? I tried one against the speedo.? When I set the radar unit to "display patrol car speed", the two agreed to the resolution of the radar.? It didn't display decimal MPH. If the unit is wired according to the instructions, the GPS receiver is always on.? Thus, unless you park in a metal-roofed garage, the speedo will register the car's first motion. I was completely satisfied. John On 5/1/20 11:38 AM, Dave Brice wrote: > I left the shaft coming out the front.? Tonight I will modify something to > make it fit hopefully.?? If not, the shaft out the front is keyed and I > could use a sensor and aftermarket speedometer easy. But I'd prefer the > original. my cable is fubar though after the motor failure. > >
|
Instead of all that hassle, you might look at a GPS-based speedo.? I think VDO makes them.? Probably other instrument manufacturers. It is a very hansom analog gauge with an odometer.? What is really great is that it has an optional servo motor output designed to drive the OEM speedo.
I had to buy one when the cable on one of my hotrod Datsun Z cars seized.? The torque broke the speedo drive shaft coming from the transmission.? I thought about all the work it would take to change out that shaft and oped for the GPS unit.
It containes enough electronics to dead-reckon through loss of signal such as going through a tunnel.? I have several moving mode police radar.? I tried one against the speedo.? When I set the radar unit to "display patrol car speed", the two agreed to the resolution of the radar.? It didn't display decimal MPH.
If the unit is wired according to the instructions, the GPS receiver is always on.? Thus, unless you park in a metal-roofed garage, the speedo will register the car's first motion.
I was completely satisfied.
John
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On 5/1/20 11:38 AM, Dave Brice wrote: I left the shaft coming out the front. Tonight I will modify something to
make it fit hopefully. If not, the shaft out the front is keyed and I
could use a sensor and aftermarket speedometer easy. But I'd prefer the
original. my cable is fubar though after the motor failure.
|
Cool pics. Fun to have the car on the road. Just got back from driving mine. Post some encouragement pictures feom tomorrow's ride. Today was mainly a vespa day.
Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android Device
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-------- Original message -------- From: Dave Brice <dbrice3721@...> Date: 5/1/20 8:00 PM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [c-car] Replacement motor
I wasn't comfortable drilling past the bearing, so I had to cut the small piece down a bit. Still goes quite far in. Gotta make a mounting ring for the right angle adapter to bolt in. I tested the motor wheels up and all was good!? Can't wait for a drive! As a point of interest it would seem that a bunch of older arctic cat snowmobiles used the same speedo drive, or at least they appear the same.?
I left the shaft coming out the front.? Tonight I will modify something to make it fit hopefully.? ?If not, the shaft out the front is keyed and I could use a sensor and aftermarket speedometer easy. But I'd prefer the original. my cable is fubar though after the motor failure.?
On Fri, May 1, 2020, 10:42 AM Robert Lesko < koaly@...> wrote: Hi Dave
Did you also get a speedo hook up on yours?
Thanks
Bob
|
I wasn't comfortable drilling past the bearing, so I had to cut the small piece down a bit. Still goes quite far in. Gotta make a mounting ring for the right angle adapter to bolt in. I tested the motor wheels up and all was good!? Can't wait for a drive!
As a point of interest it would seem that a bunch of older arctic cat snowmobiles used the same speedo drive, or at least they appear the same.?
I left the shaft coming out the front.? Tonight I will modify something to make it fit hopefully.? ?If not, the shaft out the front is keyed and I could use a sensor and aftermarket speedometer easy. But I'd prefer the original. my cable is fubar though after the motor failure.?
On Fri, May 1, 2020, 10:42 AM Robert Lesko < koaly@...> wrote: Hi Dave
Did you also get a speedo hook up on yours?
Thanks
Bob
|
As a point of interest it would seem that a bunch of older arctic cat snowmobiles used the same speedo drive, or at least they appear the same.?
I left the shaft coming out the front.? Tonight I will modify something to make it fit hopefully.? ?If not, the shaft out the front is keyed and I could use a sensor and aftermarket speedometer easy. But I'd prefer the original. my cable is fubar though after the motor failure.?
On Fri, May 1, 2020, 10:42 AM Robert Lesko < koaly@...> wrote: Hi Dave
Did you also get a speedo hook up on yours?
Thanks
Bob
|
I left the shaft coming out the front.? Tonight I will modify something to make it fit hopefully.? ?If not, the shaft out the front is keyed and I could use a sensor and aftermarket speedometer easy. But I'd prefer the original. my cable is fubar though after the motor failure.?
On Fri, May 1, 2020, 10:42 AM Robert Lesko < koaly@...> wrote: Hi Dave
Did you also get a speedo hook up on yours?
Thanks
Bob
|
I chose to not plumb it to the fan, however the mounting plate side looks like it could easily be modified to take the ge hose adapter. the flbrush side would be even easier. According to what d&d tells me I should have no problem cooling as is.?
On Fri, May 1, 2020, 10:26 AM Robert Lesko < koaly@...> wrote: Hi Dave
I have the same motor you just purchase and I was wondering if that is all to the motor cooling or is there more. I sent an email to D&D to see if I can purchase the parts to modify mine. My motor seems to run hot. I live in the mountains of PA and your always going up hill.
I am sure you will be very pleased with your new I am with mine. I went to all electronic controllers and throttle which makes it a pleasure to drive.
Good Luck with yours and let me know how you make out.
Thanks
Bob
|
Hi Dave
Did you also get a speedo hook up on yours?
Thanks
Bob
|
Hi Dave
I have the same motor you just purchase and I was wondering if that is all to the motor cooling or is there more. I sent an email to D&D to see if I can purchase the parts to modify mine. My motor seems to run hot. I live in the mountains of PA and your always going up hill.
I am sure you will be very pleased with your new motor.as I am with mine. I went to all electronic controllers and throttle which makes it a pleasure to drive.
Good Luck with yours and let me know how you make out.
Thanks
Bob
|
Tony399
NeonJohn
Nicholas Gee