Re: Z80 1st boot (wooot!)
On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 04:28 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
It is possible to get flux in a bad place, like right on the contact area of a connector. But I generally clean my boards with isopropyl alcohol.
Hi Lee, No problem now. Yes Ive got the classic sn63/37 as well, have been doing this a long time like you. This is one of the orders from mouser I have found that is the problem. I had two shipments of those molex connectors. I looked at my order from them and did a further investigation and I bought about 20 of those molex's 2101's for the few of your kits that I am doing. 6 of these I got from them at the beginning of the year and it had a funny 6 placement holder package, like what you would get from a dealer. All the rest now recently for the 1802 MC I got from mouser in individual bags. They all look the same until you look close. Its funny because the 6 pack does look odd with its lower tinning but the rest look shiny. Most of those 6 went into the Z80 board and were hard to solder too. Even tho they are soldered in I remembered what they looked like. Thats why I kept using the kester flux on them and made it worse. The rest (now for your MC) solder just fine. Just touch the edge and they wick up just great. LOL! Maybe it was a re-order that mouser had for them and I was in between for some reason, with the old batch and now the new. Idk. It wasn't that bad I got it cleared up fast when I figured out what was going on. There clean now and seem to work great on the Z80.? They are really nice and what a great Idea design wise. Cool stuff here Lee. Love the architecture you designed for this, I love it. Just got the SD card working today, got C/PM running fine and even kicked up some Zork1 on the second 8-inch (virtual, lolol) drive. Man, its like playing around on the Vax I had back in the 70's hehe!! Thanks so much for your replies buddy.
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Re: Z80 1st boot (wooot!)
saturn5tony via groups.io wrote: Hi Lee,
Thank you so much for your reply and kind words. It was a real rookie mistake Lee. Not only new to this connector but new to the type of flux I got from ebay a few months ago too. It was a fresh batch of NO-clean flux I just got. I should have realized it being so thick.
These molex connectors are the ones you recommended (the 10-pin Molex
22-18-2101) that I got from Mouser. They must have had them on the shelf
for a long time, because when I was soldering them they had a real
problem sticking to the solder. That's really odd. First, because Mouser usually sell pretty new stock. Second, I've never run into a problem soldering them, even with really old ones out of my "gold mine" (i.e. junk box). What kind of solder did you use? I use good old Kester 63/37 tin/lead with rosin flux. I never have to use any separate flux, unless I'm trying to solder something really unusual. It is possible to get flux in a bad place, like right on the contact area of a connector. But I generally clean my boards with isopropyl alcohol. I know there are no-wash and water-washable fluxes; but I generally don't use them. They don't seem to work as well for me. Note that there isn't anything on the Membership Cards that you can't water-wash. I've even put boards in the dishwasher! :-) Just be sure to dry them off really good before use. I dunk them in isopropyl alcohol after any spraying or immersion in water to get out every trace of moisture. Lee -- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. -- Albert Einstein -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: Z80 1st boot (wooot!)
On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 09:01 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
Congratulations, Tony!
Hi Lee, Thank you so much for your reply and kind words. It was a real rookie mistake Lee. Not only new to this connector but new to the type of flux I got from ebay a few months ago too. It was a fresh batch of NO-clean flux I just got. I should have realized it being so thick. These molex connectors are the ones you recommended (the 10-pin Molex 22-18-2101) that I got from Mouser. They must have had them on the shelf for a long time, because when I was soldering them they had a real problem sticking to the solder. From the top I tried a swipe of Noclean Kester flux and I am sure they dripped down into the connector during the somewhat long solder application for each pin. The tin plated pins must have gotten old. Never had this issue with really any other type I have used like this but who knows, Ill be care full next time, I still have to build the 1802 MC too. After your reply today I went to the lab and probably used an 1/8th can of defluxer to clean the inards..again. Yup as you can see below I have a properly seated Z80MC! Man this is cool. I need to really purchase a nice ultra-sonic cleaner or something someday. One thing is for sure, Ill never have a flux buildup in these boards eventually. haha!  I love the work that went into this, both the hardware and software. Just awesome! -Tony (aka Captain Dunsel)
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Re: Z80 1st boot (wooot!)
saturn5tony via groups.io wrote: OK Completed the SIO board today! Like the above comment, this is really a great Z80 machine. Here is the finished board as well as the 1st listing entering into C/PM enclosed. So cool to see that classic C/PM operating system and MBasic as well.
Still have this issue tho with not only having to slide the Top keypad board half way onto the CPU board, I even have to slide the SIO half way as well. idk whats happening because it works fine with all functions but if they are "squeezed" together for a tight fit, no led display or even now sio access is possible. I have to look into this more but halfway works for the time being and I am having fun. Even checked out the SD card and Xmodems stuff and everything works great! Congratulations, Tony! Your build is all the more impressive because you just got the bare boards, and had to source everything else yourself. On the connector intermittents: What kind of connectors did you use? I supply Molex KK with gold plated pins. They have been pretty reliable, even with bent or mis-aligned pins and other problems. Lee -- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. -- Albert Einstein -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: Z80 1st boot (wooot!)
On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 04:26 PM, saturn5tony wrote:
This is really an awesome machine.
OK Completed the SIO board today! Like the above comment, this is really a great Z80 machine. Here is the finished board as well as the 1st listing entering into C/PM enclosed. So cool to see that classic C/PM operating system and MBasic as well.  Still have this issue tho with not only having to slide the Top keypad board half way onto the CPU board, I even have to slide the SIO half way as well. idk whats happening because it works fine with all functions but if they are "squeezed" together for a tight fit, no led display or even now sio access is possible. I have to look into this more but halfway works for the time being and I am having fun. Even checked out the SD card and Xmodems stuff and everything works great!
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Re: Z80 1st boot (wooot!)
On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 05:21 PM, saturn5tony wrote:
Here is the 1st boot of just the Z80MC CPU board!? yippee!
Now here is the CPU and the Font panel display keypad system. Woot #2!! Just finished it today. Had a bit of issues with glitching at 1st even though I did replace the 74LS245 with the 74HC245 I managed to find yesterday. I dont think it was necessary because there seemed to be an issue with the Molex connectors needing a bit more soldering. Even though I used the great Kester 186 flux the plating on the connectors really had a hard time making a good connection with the external leads and the pcb traces. Redid it and I was finally able to slide the top board down onto the CPU board. It only worked halfway so I new it was the molex's. Even put a real nice tiny piezo buzzer from CUI for about a buck or so. Not quite as loud as the flat ones but easier to mount and has a good sound. I did have to replace a key on keyboard tho as well. Glad I bought a few extra too.   Enclosed is a couple side views. I will say I have been banging around with the software for a few hours now and man this looks great! I love the single-step controls and memory stuff on the hexkey pad and the access to data is just really cool. Both the terminal mode and keypad access are just really nice! I cant wait to finish the SIO board now. This is really an awesome machine. -Tony
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Re: Z80 1st boot (wooot!)
On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 09:23 AM, joshbensadon wrote:
Heathkit used a similar model and it was successful.?
I think thats why I love all the stuff Lee (and you) have done here. When I was 13 I got some kits from Heathkit (and Eico) and I think that was so wonderful to do and explore. I knew crap about electronics back then and why something did what it did. Those kits gave me that knowledge years before I went to college. When heathkit went downhill so did a piece of me. I wish I could have bought more of them. You guys have the same approach here (and Lee mentions that a bit too in these topics) and I think not only for me but beginners will now know how that feels. The Z80MC and 1802MC are awesome. -Tony
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Re: Z80 1st boot (wooot!)
Tony,
That's all Lee.? He's big on taking little steps.? He's always going on about grand builds that start at the bottom.? Building modules one at a time, testing them individually then combining them.? Heathkit used a similar model and it was successful.? Of course, step 1 was always "build the power supply".? ?:)
Josh
On Friday, June 11, 2021, 06:05:25 p.m. EDT, saturn5tony via groups.io <saturn5tony@...> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 05:51 PM, joshbensadon wrote:
Tony,? looking good!
Thanks Josh, Yea it was the Additional Operating details with ZMCv15 ROM you and Lee wrote that really helped alot. I saw how you guys set it up to test only the Z80 card by itself that got it working so fast. I knew I had a problem with that card at the 1st point looking at it with my scope. Yup Lee said an HC368 so yup it had to be one. No issue there at all. My HC stock is very low being I came from those days with LS's and such in my Lab, lol Great Docs from both of you. Man this is a lot of fun.
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Re: Z80 1st boot (wooot!)
On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 05:51 PM, joshbensadon wrote:
Tony,? looking good!
Thanks Josh, Yea it was the Additional Operating details with ZMCv15 ROM you and Lee wrote that really helped alot. I saw how you guys set it up to test only the Z80 card by itself that got it working so fast. I knew I had a problem with that card at the 1st point looking at it with my scope. Yup Lee said an HC368 so yup it had to be one. No issue there at all. My HC stock is very low being I came from those days with LS's and such in my Lab, lol Great Docs from both of you. Man this is a lot of fun.
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Re: Z80 1st boot (wooot!)
On Friday, June 11, 2021, 05:21:03 p.m. EDT, saturn5tony via groups.io <saturn5tony@...> wrote:
Here is the 1st boot of just the Z80MC CPU board!? yippee!
Finished it last week but it had no clock. Found out that my use of a 74LS368 was not a good Idea, so I put an order in to Mouser for an HC368 as Lee designed it for, got it today and in business with the zed80...sweet!!
@@@@ @ H?
Hard Reset 01
AF =1D68? BC =0840? DE =FF80? HL =FFFF
AF'=01FF? BC'=FFFF? DE'=FFFF? HL'=00C3
IX =FFFF? IY =FFFF? IR =001D? PC =FFFF? SP =FB00
Press M for Monitor..............................
????????????????????????????????????????????????? MICRO-BASIC COPYRIGHT 1983 BY DAVE DUNFIELD
READY
?NO PROGRAM ERROR
READY
10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD";
20 GOTO 10
LIST
0010 PRINT "HELLO WORLD";
0020 GOTO 10
READY
RUN
?SYNTAX ERROR IN LINE 0010
READY
10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"
RUN
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
STOP IN LINE 0020
READY
Here is a pic of it (note to the top right with a discrete clock, now disconnected) also showed me that the chip enable's needed the HC368 as well.
Notice the (white) Mostek Z-80 from 1977! Wow, I was very careful bringing that up power wise too.
Well next I will need to replace the LS245 and LS273 with HC's as well but Mouser did not have any of these on hand.
Might work OK but well see.? Also I will be finishing the front panel card and the SIO card as well in the next few days so wish me luck.? 8-)
-Tony
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Here is the 1st boot of just the Z80MC CPU board!? yippee!
Finished it last week but it had no clock. Found out that my use of a 74LS368 was not a good Idea, so I put an order in to Mouser for an HC368 as Lee designed it for, got it today and in business with the zed80...sweet!!
@@@@ @ H?
Hard Reset 01
AF =1D68? BC =0840? DE =FF80? HL =FFFF
AF'=01FF? BC'=FFFF? DE'=FFFF? HL'=00C3
IX =FFFF? IY =FFFF? IR =001D? PC =FFFF? SP =FB00
Press M for Monitor..............................
????????????????????????????????????????????????? MICRO-BASIC COPYRIGHT 1983 BY DAVE DUNFIELD
READY
?NO PROGRAM ERROR
READY
10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD";
20 GOTO 10
LIST
0010 PRINT "HELLO WORLD";
0020 GOTO 10
READY
RUN
?SYNTAX ERROR IN LINE 0010
READY
10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"
RUN
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
STOP IN LINE 0020
READY
Here is a pic of it (note to the top right with a discrete clock, now disconnected) also showed me that the chip enable's needed the HC368 as well.
Notice the (white) Mostek Z-80 from 1977! Wow, I was very careful bringing that up power wise too.
Well next I will need to replace the LS245 and LS273 with HC's as well but Mouser did not have any of these on hand.
Might work OK but well see.? Also I will be finishing the front panel card and the SIO card as well in the next few days so wish me luck.? 8-)
-Tony
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
I’ve also seen ORANGE CONNEX on a few occasions. I’ve signed up for USPS notifications so that as soon as any package enters their system that targets my mailing address, regardless of origin, I know that a package has “arrived” on US shores … and I can see its subsequent progress. ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of SCOTT VITALE
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 3:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Z80MC] SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator ? I order parts off of eBay. In many cases, the supplier will ship, as Paul stated, via a "package bundle". Sometimes U.S. vendors do the same thing using DHL or FEDEX. Recently, I've seen the Chinese suppliers using ORANGE CONNEX that usually ends up in Bensonville, U.S. and is then relabeled with a USPS tracking number and sent via USPS. I've seen typically 2 weeks shipping time from China. Sometimes the vendor charges US$2 to US$4 for the shipping and sometimes its free. You can track the package from China to the U.S. via ORANGE CONNEX but afterwards, you don't get the USPS tracking number, so the package can't be tracked once it passes through U.S. customs, which can take 3 - 5 days (slower for caution due to China's attack on U.S. using bio-weapon CV-19). Once shipped via USPS, typically 3 days to arrive to your door.
Peace and blessings,
Scott
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
I order parts off of eBay. In many cases, the supplier will ship, as Paul stated, via a "package bundle". Sometimes U.S. vendors do the same thing using DHL or FEDEX. Recently, I've seen the Chinese suppliers using ORANGE CONNEX that usually ends up in Bensonville, U.S. and is then relabeled with a USPS tracking number and sent via USPS. I've seen typically 2 weeks shipping time from China. Sometimes the vendor charges US$2 to US$4 for the shipping and sometimes its free. You can track the package from China to the U.S. via ORANGE CONNEX but afterwards, you don't get the USPS tracking number, so the package can't be tracked once it passes through U.S. customs, which can take 3 - 5 days (slower for caution due to China's attack on U.S. using bio-weapon CV-19). Once shipped via USPS, typically 3 days to arrive to your door.
Peace and blessings,
Scott
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
Judging by the tracking on my two recent orders it appears that they bundle US (or maybe North American?) orders over some interval into a single package that is shipped to Colorado where it is disaggregated and then individual orders travel via USPS. Interestingly it appears that they "eat" the cost of the drop-ship to Colorado, and the Shipping Cost in the order roughly corresponds to the USPS rate from Colorado based on the package label (which in both cases was marked with a somewhat higher cost than was charged in the order).
I presume that the drop-ship is air mail as it was only a week between order-entry and arrival in Colorado. The second week was spent with USPS Ground.
A very efficient process; I'm impressed. I imagine that they have a similar set-up for other world regions.
I've seen what appears to be similar behavior with Hong Kong (and possibly Chinese) vendors on eBay -- after a pause the package appears to originate at a US location.
Glad to hear that Tayda wasn't foolin' with their availability of the 1.8Mhz resonators :->.
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 5:36 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [Z80MC] SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator saturn5tony via groups.io wrote: Lee Hart wrote: I did find a source for more 1.8 MHz resonators. I ordered directly
from Tayda Electronics in Thailand, and they arrived. :-)
Oh great Lee. I just did my 1st order with them as well for these 1.8meg
cr's for my new z80 bd. How long did it take to get them? The shipping
was very reasonable. My order took just over 2 weeks to arrive. That's pretty good! I've shipped packages internationally that have taken 4-6 weeks to arrive. Of course, that's "good" compared to last year. Some packages sent in early 2020 took 3-4 months to arrive! Lee -- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. -- Albert Einstein -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
saturn5tony via groups.io wrote: Lee Hart wrote: I did find a source for more 1.8 MHz resonators. I ordered directly
from Tayda Electronics in Thailand, and they arrived. :-)
Oh great Lee. I just did my 1st order with them as well for these 1.8meg cr's for my new z80 bd. How long did it take to get them? The shipping was very reasonable. My order took just over 2 weeks to arrive. That's pretty good! I've shipped packages internationally that have taken 4-6 weeks to arrive. Of course, that's "good" compared to last year. Some packages sent in early 2020 took 3-4 months to arrive! Lee -- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. -- Albert Einstein -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 11:14 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
I did find a source for more 1.8 MHz resonators. I ordered directly from Tayda Electronics in Thailand, and they arrived. :-)
Oh great Lee. I just did my 1st order with them as well for these 1.8meg cr's for my new z80 bd. How long did it take to get them? The shipping was very reasonable.
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
SCOTT VITALE wrote: FYI: for non-standard baud rates;
I use Linux for all development work and?a USB-2-TTL serial converter for serial I/O. I tested with with CH340 to see how much baud-rate error would be tolerated at 57.6Kb and found up to +7% error was still functional but +10% was no-joy. I also found that anything more than -2% was no-joy.
I use PICOCOM for terminal emulation, which allows one to use ANY baud rate you tell it, so if you are using a 2 MHz oscillator, simply tell PICOCOM your ACTUAL baud rate is 62.5Kb (or whatever) and it'll work. Not sure about WINDOWS terminal emulators. Try it and see. Thanks Scott, The terminal programs I normally use (ProComm and TeraTerm) don't support odd baud rates; I'll have to try the one you suggested. It sounds like a good tool for testing baud rate accuracy. I did find a source for more 1.8 MHz resonators. I ordered directly from Tayda Electronics in Thailand, and they arrived. :-) Best wishes, Lee Hart -- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. -- Albert Einstein -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
glad it's working for you.? Did you try other fixed baud rates?
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FYI: for non-standard baud rates;
I use Linux for all development work and?a USB-2-TTL serial converter for serial I/O. I tested with with CH340 to see how much baud-rate error would be tolerated at 57.6Kb and found up to +7% error was still functional but +10% was no-joy. I also found that
anything more than -2% was no-joy.
I use PICOCOM for terminal emulation, which allows one to use ANY baud rate you tell it, so if you are using a 2 MHz oscillator, simply tell PICOCOM your ACTUAL baud rate is 62.5Kb (or whatever) and it'll work. Not sure about WINDOWS terminal emulators. Try
it and see.?
Peace and blessings.
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
FYI: for non-standard baud rates;
I use Linux for all development work and?a USB-2-TTL serial converter for serial I/O. I tested with with CH340 to see how much baud-rate error would be tolerated at 57.6Kb and found up to +7% error was still functional but +10% was no-joy. I also found that anything more than -2% was no-joy.
I use PICOCOM for terminal emulation, which allows one to use ANY baud rate you tell it, so if you are using a 2 MHz oscillator, simply tell PICOCOM your ACTUAL baud rate is 62.5Kb (or whatever) and it'll work. Not sure about WINDOWS terminal emulators. Try it and see.?
Peace and blessings.
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
Hi folks!
Just a quick update, it actually works if your terminal client supports custom baud rates. I got my kit fully assembled this morning, and had it working? in no time using GtkTerm under Linux, may work in Putty as well, but I haven't tried yet.
Thanks? for all the help.
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Lee Hart
Zanchius