Re: Z80 1st boot (wooot!)
On Friday, June 11, 2021, 05:21:03 p.m. EDT, saturn5tony via groups.io <saturn5tony@...> wrote:
Here is the 1st boot of just the Z80MC CPU board!? yippee!
Finished it last week but it had no clock. Found out that my use of a 74LS368 was not a good Idea, so I put an order in to Mouser for an HC368 as Lee designed it for, got it today and in business with the zed80...sweet!!
@@@@ @ H?
Hard Reset 01
AF =1D68? BC =0840? DE =FF80? HL =FFFF
AF'=01FF? BC'=FFFF? DE'=FFFF? HL'=00C3
IX =FFFF? IY =FFFF? IR =001D? PC =FFFF? SP =FB00
Press M for Monitor..............................
????????????????????????????????????????????????? MICRO-BASIC COPYRIGHT 1983 BY DAVE DUNFIELD
READY
?NO PROGRAM ERROR
READY
10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD";
20 GOTO 10
LIST
0010 PRINT "HELLO WORLD";
0020 GOTO 10
READY
RUN
?SYNTAX ERROR IN LINE 0010
READY
10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"
RUN
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
STOP IN LINE 0020
READY
Here is a pic of it (note to the top right with a discrete clock, now disconnected) also showed me that the chip enable's needed the HC368 as well.
Notice the (white) Mostek Z-80 from 1977! Wow, I was very careful bringing that up power wise too.
Well next I will need to replace the LS245 and LS273 with HC's as well but Mouser did not have any of these on hand.
Might work OK but well see.? Also I will be finishing the front panel card and the SIO card as well in the next few days so wish me luck.? 8-)
-Tony
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Here is the 1st boot of just the Z80MC CPU board!? yippee!
Finished it last week but it had no clock. Found out that my use of a 74LS368 was not a good Idea, so I put an order in to Mouser for an HC368 as Lee designed it for, got it today and in business with the zed80...sweet!!
@@@@ @ H?
Hard Reset 01
AF =1D68? BC =0840? DE =FF80? HL =FFFF
AF'=01FF? BC'=FFFF? DE'=FFFF? HL'=00C3
IX =FFFF? IY =FFFF? IR =001D? PC =FFFF? SP =FB00
Press M for Monitor..............................
????????????????????????????????????????????????? MICRO-BASIC COPYRIGHT 1983 BY DAVE DUNFIELD
READY
?NO PROGRAM ERROR
READY
10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD";
20 GOTO 10
LIST
0010 PRINT "HELLO WORLD";
0020 GOTO 10
READY
RUN
?SYNTAX ERROR IN LINE 0010
READY
10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"
RUN
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
HELLO WORLD
STOP IN LINE 0020
READY
Here is a pic of it (note to the top right with a discrete clock, now disconnected) also showed me that the chip enable's needed the HC368 as well.
Notice the (white) Mostek Z-80 from 1977! Wow, I was very careful bringing that up power wise too.
Well next I will need to replace the LS245 and LS273 with HC's as well but Mouser did not have any of these on hand.
Might work OK but well see.? Also I will be finishing the front panel card and the SIO card as well in the next few days so wish me luck.? 8-)
-Tony
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
I’ve also seen ORANGE CONNEX on a few occasions. I’ve signed up for USPS notifications so that as soon as any package enters their system that targets my mailing address, regardless of origin, I know that a package has “arrived” on US shores … and I can see its subsequent progress. ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of SCOTT VITALE
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 3:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Z80MC] SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator ? I order parts off of eBay. In many cases, the supplier will ship, as Paul stated, via a "package bundle". Sometimes U.S. vendors do the same thing using DHL or FEDEX. Recently, I've seen the Chinese suppliers using ORANGE CONNEX that usually ends up in Bensonville, U.S. and is then relabeled with a USPS tracking number and sent via USPS. I've seen typically 2 weeks shipping time from China. Sometimes the vendor charges US$2 to US$4 for the shipping and sometimes its free. You can track the package from China to the U.S. via ORANGE CONNEX but afterwards, you don't get the USPS tracking number, so the package can't be tracked once it passes through U.S. customs, which can take 3 - 5 days (slower for caution due to China's attack on U.S. using bio-weapon CV-19). Once shipped via USPS, typically 3 days to arrive to your door.
Peace and blessings,
Scott
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
I order parts off of eBay. In many cases, the supplier will ship, as Paul stated, via a "package bundle". Sometimes U.S. vendors do the same thing using DHL or FEDEX. Recently, I've seen the Chinese suppliers using ORANGE CONNEX that usually ends up in Bensonville, U.S. and is then relabeled with a USPS tracking number and sent via USPS. I've seen typically 2 weeks shipping time from China. Sometimes the vendor charges US$2 to US$4 for the shipping and sometimes its free. You can track the package from China to the U.S. via ORANGE CONNEX but afterwards, you don't get the USPS tracking number, so the package can't be tracked once it passes through U.S. customs, which can take 3 - 5 days (slower for caution due to China's attack on U.S. using bio-weapon CV-19). Once shipped via USPS, typically 3 days to arrive to your door.
Peace and blessings,
Scott
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
Judging by the tracking on my two recent orders it appears that they bundle US (or maybe North American?) orders over some interval into a single package that is shipped to Colorado where it is disaggregated and then individual orders travel via USPS. Interestingly it appears that they "eat" the cost of the drop-ship to Colorado, and the Shipping Cost in the order roughly corresponds to the USPS rate from Colorado based on the package label (which in both cases was marked with a somewhat higher cost than was charged in the order).
I presume that the drop-ship is air mail as it was only a week between order-entry and arrival in Colorado. The second week was spent with USPS Ground.
A very efficient process; I'm impressed. I imagine that they have a similar set-up for other world regions.
I've seen what appears to be similar behavior with Hong Kong (and possibly Chinese) vendors on eBay -- after a pause the package appears to originate at a US location.
Glad to hear that Tayda wasn't foolin' with their availability of the 1.8Mhz resonators :->.
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 5:36 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [Z80MC] SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator saturn5tony via groups.io wrote: Lee Hart wrote: I did find a source for more 1.8 MHz resonators. I ordered directly
from Tayda Electronics in Thailand, and they arrived. :-)
Oh great Lee. I just did my 1st order with them as well for these 1.8meg
cr's for my new z80 bd. How long did it take to get them? The shipping
was very reasonable. My order took just over 2 weeks to arrive. That's pretty good! I've shipped packages internationally that have taken 4-6 weeks to arrive. Of course, that's "good" compared to last year. Some packages sent in early 2020 took 3-4 months to arrive! Lee -- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. -- Albert Einstein -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
saturn5tony via groups.io wrote: Lee Hart wrote: I did find a source for more 1.8 MHz resonators. I ordered directly
from Tayda Electronics in Thailand, and they arrived. :-)
Oh great Lee. I just did my 1st order with them as well for these 1.8meg cr's for my new z80 bd. How long did it take to get them? The shipping was very reasonable. My order took just over 2 weeks to arrive. That's pretty good! I've shipped packages internationally that have taken 4-6 weeks to arrive. Of course, that's "good" compared to last year. Some packages sent in early 2020 took 3-4 months to arrive! Lee -- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. -- Albert Einstein -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 11:14 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
I did find a source for more 1.8 MHz resonators. I ordered directly from Tayda Electronics in Thailand, and they arrived. :-)
Oh great Lee. I just did my 1st order with them as well for these 1.8meg cr's for my new z80 bd. How long did it take to get them? The shipping was very reasonable.
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
SCOTT VITALE wrote: FYI: for non-standard baud rates;
I use Linux for all development work and?a USB-2-TTL serial converter for serial I/O. I tested with with CH340 to see how much baud-rate error would be tolerated at 57.6Kb and found up to +7% error was still functional but +10% was no-joy. I also found that anything more than -2% was no-joy.
I use PICOCOM for terminal emulation, which allows one to use ANY baud rate you tell it, so if you are using a 2 MHz oscillator, simply tell PICOCOM your ACTUAL baud rate is 62.5Kb (or whatever) and it'll work. Not sure about WINDOWS terminal emulators. Try it and see. Thanks Scott, The terminal programs I normally use (ProComm and TeraTerm) don't support odd baud rates; I'll have to try the one you suggested. It sounds like a good tool for testing baud rate accuracy. I did find a source for more 1.8 MHz resonators. I ordered directly from Tayda Electronics in Thailand, and they arrived. :-) Best wishes, Lee Hart -- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. -- Albert Einstein -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
glad it's working for you.? Did you try other fixed baud rates?
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FYI: for non-standard baud rates;
I use Linux for all development work and?a USB-2-TTL serial converter for serial I/O. I tested with with CH340 to see how much baud-rate error would be tolerated at 57.6Kb and found up to +7% error was still functional but +10% was no-joy. I also found that
anything more than -2% was no-joy.
I use PICOCOM for terminal emulation, which allows one to use ANY baud rate you tell it, so if you are using a 2 MHz oscillator, simply tell PICOCOM your ACTUAL baud rate is 62.5Kb (or whatever) and it'll work. Not sure about WINDOWS terminal emulators. Try
it and see.?
Peace and blessings.
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
FYI: for non-standard baud rates;
I use Linux for all development work and?a USB-2-TTL serial converter for serial I/O. I tested with with CH340 to see how much baud-rate error would be tolerated at 57.6Kb and found up to +7% error was still functional but +10% was no-joy. I also found that anything more than -2% was no-joy.
I use PICOCOM for terminal emulation, which allows one to use ANY baud rate you tell it, so if you are using a 2 MHz oscillator, simply tell PICOCOM your ACTUAL baud rate is 62.5Kb (or whatever) and it'll work. Not sure about WINDOWS terminal emulators. Try it and see.?
Peace and blessings.
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Re: SD I/O 1.8MHz resonator
Hi folks!
Just a quick update, it actually works if your terminal client supports custom baud rates. I got my kit fully assembled this morning, and had it working? in no time using GtkTerm under Linux, may work in Putty as well, but I haven't tried yet.
Thanks? for all the help.
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Z80 is 4-22 clock cycles per instruction.
The longer ones are the are in the groups that increment or decrement
and repeat.
For Z80 the simple way is a RST (one byte call) to one of 8 locations.
The common one is RST-6 (call to location 0x0030)? I use the 8080
instruction form. Z80 form would be RST 30H.? That also works for
8080 and 8085.
Once at location 30H save the stack pointer, save the registers
and return to monitor calling point for single step.??
Cost in code is small and zero hardware.
Works best if the RST points to the same location as push button
interrupt (not reset). as then you can recover from a runaway program
or one caught in a loop.
Allison
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Be careful Lee,? ?all that is going to go straight to my head!
The single step is definitely cool, but as I recall, it was your idea, I just coded it.
For those that don't know it.? Many single step operations write a jump to the next instruction(s) possible to be executed.? This jump returns control to the monitor program.? Ok, it might not exactly be a jump, some use Return, most use the Restart instructions, but it's all the same mechanics.
Lee suggested that the jump be externally generated though the timer interrupt.? In this fashion, it simplifies the need to write a jump into RAM and also permits single stepping through ROM (where you can't temporarily write a jump).? This single step code is in fact within the ISR and it simply wastes exactly the number of cycles so that when the ISR returns to main line code, only 1 instruction can execute before an interrupt brings the CPU back into the ISR.? That's the basic principle, but there's just a little more, a gory detail.??
Gory Details. The Z80 has variable length instructions, taking between 4 and 17 cycles more or less (check data sheet for exact numbers).? The interrupt works from a counter after 4096 counts I think (that's about 1mSec with a 4Mhz clock).? In order to perfectly align the interrupt for a single instruction, a halt instruction is used to wait for 1 timer interrupt interval before counting out the exact count of cycles.
Cheers, Josh
On Sunday, May 16, 2021, 02:21:54 a.m. EDT, Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:
joshbensadon via groups.io wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Thanks!? That really means a lot to me!? I just kind of thought nobody
> ever looks at the source code.
>
> The part of the source code I love the most is the full duplex bit
> banged serial I/O.? There's been MANY bit banged I/O routines, but I've
> never seen a full duplex.
Josh's source code is a wonderful example of how to write and document
assembler. It's worth spending some time to read it with careful
concentration on the details.
There are many aspects that I like, but here are a few. One is his
full-duplex interrupt-driven serial I/O routine. Another is his
single-step routine. It can trace a program even through ROM. Yet
another is that it can bit-bang an SD-card, and even figure out the
byzantine PC FAT-16 director structure.
It's a masterpiece! :-)
Lee
--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
? ? ? ? -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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joshbensadon via groups.io wrote: Bob,
Thanks!? That really means a lot to me!? I just kind of thought nobody ever looks at the source code.
The part of the source code I love the most is the full duplex bit banged serial I/O.? There's been MANY bit banged I/O routines, but I've never seen a full duplex. Josh's source code is a wonderful example of how to write and document assembler. It's worth spending some time to read it with careful concentration on the details. There are many aspects that I like, but here are a few. One is his full-duplex interrupt-driven serial I/O routine. Another is his single-step routine. It can trace a program even through ROM. Yet another is that it can bit-bang an SD-card, and even figure out the byzantine PC FAT-16 director structure. It's a masterpiece! :-) Lee -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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joshbensadon via groups.io wrote: You've had a lot of experience on assembler, I wonder what you think about how flexible assemblers should be? To be exact, let's talk about
the Z80 here.? Forgive me if I can't remember this straight off the top
of my head, but there are some instructions that look funny. One problem is human nature; everyone has their own idea of what an assembler "should" do. Another is that manufacturers copyright their assembler mnemonics. That forces subsequent designers to invent their own. I think that's what required Zilog to come up with their own set for the Z80 instead of using/extending the Intel 8080 set. So, we wind up with every micro having a unique set of mnemonics. And half a dozens different assemblers for each CPU! Which is "better"? Whichever one you have, or like, or happen to use the most! Aren't standards great? We have so many to choose from! If the CPU runs an OS (8080/8085/Z80, 6502, 1802, PDP-8, PDP11, VAX)
I usually have a ASM native to that on the platform as well as cross assemblers.
I did the same years ago with teco compatible visual editor (Vteco, Vedit,
KED, EDT, TPU, LSE and friends) so a file could go from platform to platform and still look and edit in a similar way on a VT100 or VT220/320
terminal or PC. I prefer to spend time of the code not dealing with new
editors. Editors are another can-o-worms! Early ones that came with the OS were often terrible. Like you, I discovered VEDIT early on, and standardized on it. One nice feature is its macro language was powerful enough to automatically translate one set of mnemonics into another. I.e. it could convert 8080 assembler to Z80. It was a way to deal with the endlessly changing syntax of various assemblers. Lee -- A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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I just wanted to give a recommendation for the ASXXXX family of cross-assemblers, as I use them regularly. They are full-featured, open-source, actively updated, and work well for a very large number of chips.
-Frank
On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 12:41 PM saturn5tony via <saturn5tony= [email protected]> wrote: On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 11:23 AM, Bob Kay wrote:
Of course there are many others out there, but those are the ones I use most often.
Oh thanks Bob!
Yea I will try all the ones you mentioned. I dont have any serious time limits and I love to try out all this new stuff. I will look into that the more I build my new Z80MC. Thanks a bunch.
-Tony
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Hi Allison,
You've had a lot of experience on assembler, I wonder what you think about how flexible assemblers should be? To be exact, let's talk about the Z80 here.? Forgive me if I can't remember this straight off the top of my head, but there are some instructions that look funny.
eg: AND? ?A, r vs AND r
I think the data sheet shows one form, but not the other.? Oh, I might be confusing this with the 8080.? I'm losing it lately.
Anyway, my question is, should an assembler treat the two instructions above as the same?? or should it complain that the code is not exactly as per data sheet?
I think it should consider both the same and not stop on a simple syntax difference.? But that might promote people not memorizing each code to the letter.
Thoughts?
Regards, Josh
On Saturday, May 15, 2021, 02:09:52 p.m. EDT, ajparent1/kb1gmx <kb1gmx@...> wrote:
I use a small list of assemblers due to the abundance of assemblers in the
world and very few using a standard or even similar syntax.
So on Z80 CPM:
DRC ASM, MAC?
ASMZ (old version from 40years ago)
Avocet ASM80 (also for 6800, 6502, and a dozen more).
?And just about all of the ones on the Walnut creek CP/M CD.
For dos/dosemu a very similar set most picked to be compatible with the CP/M kit.
(dosemu is because I mostly run linux on intel or ARM).
Same for PDP-11 under rt11 and RSX11 and VAX (OpenVMS).? I used all of those
systems and more and have a lineup of CP/M systems, PDP-8f, several PDP11
and VAX based systems to run on.? Add to that 6502, and 1802 and many others
as well.
Most of the CPUs if it runs an OS (808/8085/z80, 6502, 1802, PDP-8, PDP11, VAX)
I usually have a ASM native to that on the platform as well as cross assemblers.
I did the same years ago with teco compatible visual editor (Vteco, Vedit,
KED, EDT, TPU, LSE and friends) so a file could go from platform to platform
and still look and edit in a similar way on a VT100 or VT220/320 terminal
or PC. I prefer to spend time of the code not dealing with new editors.
In the end is more about what you like or the code if someone elses
assembles on.? Likely the native platform is PC (predominent) so thats
a fairly easy one to fine assemblers of multiple different origins for.
Allison
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Thanks Scott,
I'm just looking at all the options you list and can only say WOW is there ever a LOT of software out there! So much software, so little time!
Cheers,
Josh
On Saturday, May 15, 2021, 02:58:15 p.m. EDT, SCOTT VITALE <scotty264b@...> wrote:
Tony: It really depends a lot on your development environment. From your list of computers you have available, I didn't see anything "modern". WINDOWS-XP support was discontinued at least a decade ago and WINDOWS-7 support was discontinued at least a few years ago. Personally, I USED to run WINDOWS-98 and the WINDOWS 2000 for a few years in the late 90's but all the while, I had always looked into the new but evolving OS called Linux, which wasn't ready for me at the time. Eventually, when it hit kernel version 2.4.2x in early 2000's, I decided to take the plunge and installed SLACKWARE on my main INTEL-based PC. I ran WINDOWS as a secondary computer "just in case". These days, I run Linux MINT and have not run WINDOWS as a main OS in almost 2 decades. I have all my computers set up to run a small-footprint Linux but can multi-boot into WINDOWS, DOS or a Linux-based rescue tool. I also run a Linux-based file server that operates 24/7 and supports SMART drive monitoring and software RAID with drive mirroring for redundancy. I do however, run WINDOWS-XP and WINDOWS-7 as virtual machines (VM) under Linux on my main laptop computer (TOSHIBA Satellite series circa 2011) using ORACLE's Virtual-Box, which works quite well. I've set other systems up as virtual machines such as DOS, XENIX and OS/2 WARP and they work well ... and bring back some OLD memories. :) The only reason WHY I still run WINDOWS as a VM is because when developing for the ATMEL/MICROCHIP AVR8 series of MCU's, I still prefer AVR STUDIO 4.19 over any newer version of AVR STUDIO (bloated and requires WIN-10!). For my hobby-based needs, I also use an ancient version of OrCAD/ALLEGRO for schematic capture and PCB creation, which is WINDOWS based as well but there are several free capture and layout packages available for both Linux and WINDOWS environments. There are other development tools whose only supported development environment is targeted for WINDOWS. This includes the GARMIN map updating software for my GPS. (Sigh..) I can't individually verify but I think some of the OEM's like XILINX have started to port their tolls for Linux or WINDOWS as many design engineers are using Linux for their development environment. Linux, as a development platform, brings in many open-source projects and generating executables from source code is generally built in with the (free) GCC and G++ compilers, so unlike WINDOWS, you don't have to purchase a C compiler package. There are also many (free) tools and techniques for handling HEX, SREC and binary files, including concatenating several HEX files in a binary ROM image. Essential tools for working with the 8-bitters of the past. I prefer the SREC tools for such occasions. With Linux, there are also tools and techniques for interacting with your VM's virtual serial-I/O and virtual network cards using either the various Linux terminal emulators (I like PICOCOM) or even using SSH from a different (networked) computer altogether. In the past, 1990's, I spent many hours writing DOS and OS/2 batch and command files to support various situations on various computers in my employer's small engineering house. 4DOS/4OS2 and REXX really helped in that situation. Now, under Linux, developing custom scripts is so much easier and using pipes for inter-program communications at the scripting level makes things so much more versatile and easier. I can create an entire software build script? under Linux that will assemble, link and upload my code to my target platform.? In summary, your choice of development environment will dictate what tools you will have available to use. On the Z80 development, as Josh stated, different assemblers have different features and abilities. And of course, that also depends on their supported host platform too! These days, you can find a lot of DOS-based tools (like TASM) available for free. Even some of Dave Dunfield's DOS-based tools are available and still function well under Linux's DOSBOX and QEMU. For the WINDOWS command line tools, you can use WINE, a WINDOWS emulator for Linux. There are a few assemblers available that can be compiled for Linux, WINDOWS or MAC-OS executables. There are also Z80/CP/M simulators that can target different host computers (including AVR and PIC) as well as C64, ZX80, ALTAIR, AIM65, KIM-1, APPLE I, II, PDP-11, etc. software simulators available, so getting back into the 8-bitters of the past is much easier, much less costly and much more enjoyable to enter into. Many of these simulators have built-in debugging features that one would have had to pay $$$$ for the hardware version "back in the day". And yes, I compliment Josh on his exceptional commenting abilities in the Z80MBC monitor's source code. And yes, Josh, I've spent many hours studying your code. :) Here are the assemblers I currently have installed under Linux. Generally speaking, I try to use an assembler that assemblers someone's source code without too many errors. Its likely that you'll have to massage code to match your choice of assembler's syntax and such but using a search-and-replace function in your editor (I use MEDIT) speeds that sometimes extremely tedious task up for you.
crasm Cross assembler for 6800/6801/6803/6502/65C02/Z80
d52 Disassembler for 8052, 8048/8041, and Z80/8080/8085 code
pasmo Easy to use Z80 cross-assembler
z80asm Assembler for the Zilog Z80 microprocessor
z80dasm Disassembler for the Zilog Z80 microprocessor
asmx Multi-CPU assembler by Bruce Tomlin (currently 2.05b)
z80-asm Assembler for the Zilog Z80 microprocessor
?
Josh uses Bruce Tomlin's ASMX for the Z80MBC assembly. Also, there are a few C compilers available for the Z80. SDCC seems to be the primary choice. BTW: I still have my APPLE //e, APPLE //gs and a 512K MAC-SE in storage. I used to develop software on the APPLE //e for a laser-show project I hobby-designed back in the mid-80's and used the SC-MACRO assembler to develop the machine-language routines.? I hope some of the info I conveyed will be of use to you. Peace and blessings, Scott
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On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 02:58 PM, SCOTT VITALE wrote:
There are also Z80/CP/M simulators that can target different host computers (including AVR and PIC) as well as C64, ZX80, ALTAIR, AIM65, KIM-1, APPLE I, II, PDP-11, etc. software simulators available.
Wow Scott, thank you so much for all this info! (all the above is on my plate) I think I will start using Josh's info at 1st but I do need to also check out all the rec's you mentioned also and come up to speed as best as I can. The simulators you mentioned look like fun as well and I will have to try them too. Just fun stuff all around!!
BTW: I still have my APPLE //e, APPLE //gs and a 512K MAC-SE in storage. I used to develop software on the APPLE //e for a laser-show project I hobby-designed back in the mid-80's and used the SC-MACRO assembler to develop the machine-language routines.?
Yes Apple II or as I always see on my screen to my left, " the ][? " has always been one of my major faves. I even have the Mac 128K as well but not used at all tho, just kept for its history and such. My Plus still works fine too and still used. Yes, I have SC-Macro asm too for my A2 and did a bit of that as well. It was the best for my dev as well back also along with you.? The older Kim-1 and 1802 stuff will always be other favs of mine, even more so than the A2. (and currently building my own Kim-1 similar to the microkim1 design, I have 5 projects going at once, lol) but that is were it really started for me, but alas this topic is now getting side tracked. So to me now the Z80 is so new to me (and I did not do anything with it that much in the past really) but what I am finding is that it is really cool, more than other 8 bitters as I am seeing and somewhat knew.. and now so very exciting! So all in all to those that replied...This info you ALL SHARED here is so appreciated more than you think. Thank you all for sharing these tips, asm's, crossasm's, os's and such for me. I will use this as a base to start my ZED80 adventure!!? 8-)
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Tony: It really depends a lot on your development environment. From your list of computers you have available, I didn't see anything "modern". WINDOWS-XP support was discontinued at least a decade ago and WINDOWS-7 support was discontinued at least a few years ago. Personally, I USED to run WINDOWS-98 and the WINDOWS 2000 for a few years in the late 90's but all the while, I had always looked into the new but evolving OS called Linux, which wasn't ready for me at the time. Eventually, when it hit kernel version 2.4.2x in early 2000's, I decided to take the plunge and installed SLACKWARE on my main INTEL-based PC. I ran WINDOWS as a secondary computer "just in case". These days, I run Linux MINT and have not run WINDOWS as a main OS in almost 2 decades. I have all my computers set up to run a small-footprint Linux but can multi-boot into WINDOWS, DOS or a Linux-based rescue tool. I also run a Linux-based file server that operates 24/7 and supports SMART drive monitoring and software RAID with drive mirroring for redundancy. I do however, run WINDOWS-XP and WINDOWS-7 as virtual machines (VM) under Linux on my main laptop computer (TOSHIBA Satellite series circa 2011) using ORACLE's Virtual-Box, which works quite well. I've set other systems up as virtual machines such as DOS, XENIX and OS/2 WARP and they work well ... and bring back some OLD memories. :) The only reason WHY I still run WINDOWS as a VM is because when developing for the ATMEL/MICROCHIP AVR8 series of MCU's, I still prefer AVR STUDIO 4.19 over any newer version of AVR STUDIO (bloated and requires WIN-10!). For my hobby-based needs, I also use an ancient version of OrCAD/ALLEGRO for schematic capture and PCB creation, which is WINDOWS based as well but there are several free capture and layout packages available for both Linux and WINDOWS environments. There are other development tools whose only supported development environment is targeted for WINDOWS. This includes the GARMIN map updating software for my GPS. (Sigh..) I can't individually verify but I think some of the OEM's like XILINX have started to port their tolls for Linux or WINDOWS as many design engineers are using Linux for their development environment. Linux, as a development platform, brings in many open-source projects and generating executables from source code is generally built in with the (free) GCC and G++ compilers, so unlike WINDOWS, you don't have to purchase a C compiler package. There are also many (free) tools and techniques for handling HEX, SREC and binary files, including concatenating several HEX files in a binary ROM image. Essential tools for working with the 8-bitters of the past. I prefer the SREC tools for such occasions. With Linux, there are also tools and techniques for interacting with your VM's virtual serial-I/O and virtual network cards using either the various Linux terminal emulators (I like PICOCOM) or even using SSH from a different (networked) computer altogether. In the past, 1990's, I spent many hours writing DOS and OS/2 batch and command files to support various situations on various computers in my employer's small engineering house. 4DOS/4OS2 and REXX really helped in that situation. Now, under Linux, developing custom scripts is so much easier and using pipes for inter-program communications at the scripting level makes things so much more versatile and easier. I can create an entire software build script? under Linux that will assemble, link and upload my code to my target platform.? In summary, your choice of development environment will dictate what tools you will have available to use. On the Z80 development, as Josh stated, different assemblers have different features and abilities. And of course, that also depends on their supported host platform too! These days, you can find a lot of DOS-based tools (like TASM) available for free. Even some of Dave Dunfield's DOS-based tools are available and still function well under Linux's DOSBOX and QEMU. For the WINDOWS command line tools, you can use WINE, a WINDOWS emulator for Linux. There are a few assemblers available that can be compiled for Linux, WINDOWS or MAC-OS executables. There are also Z80/CP/M simulators that can target different host computers (including AVR and PIC) as well as C64, ZX80, ALTAIR, AIM65, KIM-1, APPLE I, II, PDP-11, etc. software simulators available, so getting back into the 8-bitters of the past is much easier, much less costly and much more enjoyable to enter into. Many of these simulators have built-in debugging features that one would have had to pay $$$$ for the hardware version "back in the day". And yes, I compliment Josh on his exceptional commenting abilities in the Z80MBC monitor's source code. And yes, Josh, I've spent many hours studying your code. :) Here are the assemblers I currently have installed under Linux. Generally speaking, I try to use an assembler that assemblers someone's source code without too many errors. Its likely that you'll have to massage code to match your choice of assembler's syntax and such but using a search-and-replace function in your editor (I use MEDIT) speeds that sometimes extremely tedious task up for you.
crasm Cross assembler for 6800/6801/6803/6502/65C02/Z80
d52 Disassembler for 8052, 8048/8041, and Z80/8080/8085 code
pasmo Easy to use Z80 cross-assembler
z80asm Assembler for the Zilog Z80 microprocessor
z80dasm Disassembler for the Zilog Z80 microprocessor
asmx Multi-CPU assembler by Bruce Tomlin (currently 2.05b)
z80-asm Assembler for the Zilog Z80 microprocessor
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Josh uses Bruce Tomlin's ASMX for the Z80MBC assembly. Also, there are a few C compilers available for the Z80. SDCC seems to be the primary choice. BTW: I still have my APPLE //e, APPLE //gs and a 512K MAC-SE in storage. I used to develop software on the APPLE //e for a laser-show project I hobby-designed back in the mid-80's and used the SC-MACRO assembler to develop the machine-language routines.? I hope some of the info I conveyed will be of use to you. Peace and blessings, Scott
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Lee Hart
Zanchius