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Re: bad driver

 

Question:? 84" is a big driver, even for a passenger loco.? Did you measure the diameter of the tire, or did you measure over the flanges??


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Pellas
To: yardbirdtrains
Sent: Tue, Mar 26, 2013 6:06 pm
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] bad driver

?
Alan,
? ? ?HO scale is 1/87 of the prototype. To convert the actual size of an HO scale object, in this case, your drivers, to prototype size, multiply your measurement by 87.?
.965 x 87 = 83.9 inches (84 if you round it up). What is the make of the prototype locomotive? I did a little research and found that Westside made a Southern Pacific P-1. Here is a link to a person who rebuilt the drive train of that locomotive. Hopefully this is what you have.?



-----Original Message-----
From: Alan <albyrno@...>
To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...>
Sent: Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:51 am
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] bad driver

?
I took a look at the westside P-1 4-6-2 that was in with all the used trains I recently aquired.Previous owner said it had a short in it which I discovered to be a bad driver,1 tire is not insulated from driver center.I need to get a replacement but do not know the scale size,it measured out at .965 with calipers,what I really need is a conversion table and am hoping someone could help me find conversion chart?I've heard driver can be fixed but have no idea how this could be done.
I figure with all the other stuff in lot this loco cost me around $20.With wires connected to frame and drawbar it runs very quiet,The others of this model I've seen had open frame motors ,this one has can motor with flywheel and some pretty poor looking soldering of wires so it may have been re-motored.Once I get driver fixed,clean all the dried up grease from mechanism,lubricate lead and trailing truck axles wheels turn very stiff,clean wheels etc. it should be a good running loco.
Alan

Re: bad driver replacing tire insulator

lnnrr
 

Alan, if I were facing the project, one of my main concerns would
be keeping the rim concentric with the axle. Getting the tire
off center will cause the engine to lope and wobble down the track.
As a machinist, I'd be wanting to set up to check it with my Starrett
Last Word indicator. But you just can't get those down at Home Depot.
So, evidently you have a decent set of calipers or mikes? You
mentioned, I believe, that the piece of old insulation was about
.009 inches?
I would try to find some styrene about .100 X .010 and see if I could
get it in at three places without forcing it. Don't want to risk
getting the tire out of round. If you can get it in at say 12, 4,
and 8 o'clock and the tire is snug, you're almost there.
If the first two fit and the third is too tight, you can try to find
something about .008 or lightly sand the styrene.
Replace all three pieces with the new thinner stuff. If loose, try a bit thicker. Try whatever til you get three pieces the same
thickness in place as a close fit. Then fill in some more pieces
until the gap is largely filled. Check the guage from the other
wheel all around to make sure the tire is straight and will
roll true. Then start filling in gaps with epoxy. Use a toothpick,
get between the pieces, try to get a good fill.
Leave it set. A day would not be too long even if it said 10 minute
epoxy. Once it was well set, I'd do whatever trimming was needed
on my filler pieces then try rolling it down a piece of track.
No wobble, pat myself on the back.
Putting a shim under a loose tire is an allowed prototype practice.
One layer of shim is OK. Can't put a second layer in unless
the first goes all the way around. No third layer.
Hope this helps and that I didn't forget a step. Good luck.
Chuck Peck

--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Alan Kilby <albyrno@...> wrote:

Vic,
?Thanks for the tip my son has a kite made out of mylar if its the right thickness I might give it a try,he'll never notice an 1/8 wide sliver missing from edge.
?Alan
Re: Health alert !

lnnrr
 

Henry, you and your wife will be in my thoughts and prayers.
When you can't breathe freely, you go downhill fast. Glad she is where
she can get good attention.
Chuck Peck

--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "Henry" <long95209@...> wrote:

Heads up to my mature friends . My Wife is in Hospital with a horrible Bronchitis / Flu . If you start getting run down , ache all over ? Go to the Doctor . I almost made it in to the Hospital a week before , she's very sick . Coughing , sinuses , bad sleeping . Sleep upright not flat ? Please be careful everyone our Med Center is Oldsters and Youngins' > Henry
Re: bad driver replacing tire insulator

 

Vic,
?Thanks for the tip my son has a kite made out of mylar if its the right thickness I might give it a try,he'll never notice an 1/8 wide sliver missing from edge.
?Alan
Re: bad driver

 

Henry,I live in another state so I'm not to concerned about it,unfortunately other than the mantuas,rivarossi 0-8-0 and 0-6-0 or something all I have is mechanism(3 drivers) and motor all the others have bad motors one started smoking when I tested it,have some cheap can motors I can use to re-motor them,I knew it was all used ?stuff in various states of disrepair when I purchased so I'm still happy theres a couple unexpected brass tenders in with lot(21 lb. box) that I have yet to identify,boiler with varney stamped in it,the detail parts in lot covered the kitchen table so I threw them back in the gallon ziplock bags and will sort out later,I need bell for the balboa 4-4-0 I got in pieces someone had dissasembled it replaced pilot and possibly modified front frame(who knows what else theres a lot of extra detail parts with it),not knowing what it looked like when it was dissasembled its turning out to be an adventure,now I have to do some modifications to it as cylinders are to high up for mainrod clearance.I am going to have to devote a day to identify and write down whats there so I will know whether its worth digging through to see if I have something
?On the westside pacific I'm going to try insulating the driver with .009 cardstock which is the same thickness as what is left of it after burning out shorted portion and removing tire,never tried replacing insulation before so we'll see what happens,any tips on this,there is a spot on driver center that is suspicously pitted/nicked on inner edge of tire which is where short occurred if tire goes on ok ?and doesn't tear paper at this point I will fill pit with epoxy after tire is installed.
?Alan
Re: bad driver replacing tire insulator

 

开云体育

I have heard people nowadays use mylar.? You can get it at Office Depot.? I think it is used for drafting?? How to do it?? Not so easy I imagine.? I have heard of people doing it, but I personally never have.? If I had a bad driver though, I probably would give it a go.? Just remove the tire and clean it up really good then put the tire and mylar back.? You may need to play with the tire a bit to get it aligned properly and when that is aligned, remove the excess mylar and run a bit of CA around it
Good luck and regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

To: yardbirdtrains@...
From: albyrno@...
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 21:59:54 +0000
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] bad driver replacing tire insulator

?
Is there a suitable replacement for insulating paper between driver center and tire anyone knows of and how did you do it,the tire slid easily off driver due to missing (burnt out)insulation.
Alan

--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "Alan" wrote:
>
> I took a look at the westside P-1 4-6-2 that was in with all the used trains I recently aquired.Previous owner said it had a short in it which I discovered to be a bad driver,1 tire is not insulated from driver center.I need to get a replacement but do not know the scale size,it measured out at .965 with calipers,what I really need is a conversion table and am hoping someone could help me find conversion chart?I've heard driver can be fixed but have no idea how this could be done.
> I figure with all the other stuff in lot this loco cost me around $20.With wires connected to frame and drawbar it runs very quiet,The others of this model I've seen had open frame motors ,this one has can motor with flywheel and some pretty poor looking soldering of wires so it may have been re-motored.Once I get driver fixed,clean all the dried up grease from mechanism,lubricate lead and trailing truck axles wheels turn very stiff,clean wheels etc. it should be a good running loco.
> Alan
>
Re: Health alert !

 

开云体育

Henry I hope she gets well soon!? We will keep her in our prayers

?

From: yardbirdtrains@... [mailto:yardbirdtrains@...] On Behalf Of Henry
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 6:35 PM
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Health alert !

?

?

Heads up to my mature friends . My Wife is in Hospital with a horrible Bronchitis / Flu . If you start getting run down , ache all over ? Go to the Doctor . I almost made it in to the Hospital a week before , she's very sick . Coughing , sinuses , bad sleeping . Sleep upright not flat ? Please be careful everyone our Med Center is Oldsters and Youngins' > Henry

Health alert !

Henry
 

Heads up to my mature friends . My Wife is in Hospital with a horrible Bronchitis / Flu . If you start getting run down , ache all over ? Go to the Doctor . I almost made it in to the Hospital a week before , she's very sick . Coughing , sinuses , bad sleeping . Sleep upright not flat ? Please be careful everyone our Med Center is Oldsters and Youngins' > Henry
Re: bad driver

Henry
 

So Alan . Even with a "glitch or two" . Are you looking for lights and sirens ? You stole it ! Henry

--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "Alan" <albyrno@...> wrote:

I took a look at the westside P-1 4-6-2 that was in with all the used trains I recently aquired.Previous owner said it had a short in it which I discovered to be a bad driver,1 tire is not insulated from driver center.I need to get a replacement but do not know the scale size,it measured out at .965 with calipers,what I really need is a conversion table and am hoping someone could help me find conversion chart?I've heard driver can be fixed but have no idea how this could be done.
I figure with all the other stuff in lot this loco cost me around $20.With wires connected to frame and drawbar it runs very quiet,The others of this model I've seen had open frame motors ,this one has can motor with flywheel and some pretty poor looking soldering of wires so it may have been re-motored.Once I get driver fixed,clean all the dried up grease from mechanism,lubricate lead and trailing truck axles wheels turn very stiff,clean wheels etc. it should be a good running loco.
Alan
Re: bad driver

 

Alan,
? ? ?HO scale is 1/87 of the prototype. To convert the actual size of an HO scale object, in this case, your drivers, to prototype size, multiply your measurement by 87.?
.965 x 87 = 83.9 inches (84 if you round it up). What is the make of the prototype locomotive? I did a little research and found that Westside made a Southern Pacific P-1. Here is a link to a person who rebuilt the drive train of that locomotive. Hopefully this is what you have.?http://schutzer.net/Pacific_P1/Pacific_P1_page1.htm

Jeff
jppellas@...


-----Original Message-----
From: Alan
To: yardbirdtrains
Sent: Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:51 am
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] bad driver

?
I took a look at the westside P-1 4-6-2 that was in with all the used trains I recently aquired.Previous owner said it had a short in it which I discovered to be a bad driver,1 tire is not insulated from driver center.I need to get a replacement but do not know the scale size,it measured out at .965 with calipers,what I really need is a conversion table and am hoping someone could help me find conversion chart?I've heard driver can be fixed but have no idea how this could be done.
I figure with all the other stuff in lot this loco cost me around $20.With wires connected to frame and drawbar it runs very quiet,The others of this model I've seen had open frame motors ,this one has can motor with flywheel and some pretty poor looking soldering of wires so it may have been re-motored.Once I get driver fixed,clean all the dried up grease from mechanism,lubricate lead and trailing truck axles wheels turn very stiff,clean wheels etc. it should be a good running loco.
Alan
bad driver replacing tire insulator

 

Is there a suitable replacement for insulating paper between driver center and tire anyone knows of and how did you do it,the tire slid easily off driver due to missing (burnt out)insulation.
Alan

--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "Alan" <albyrno@...> wrote:

I took a look at the westside P-1 4-6-2 that was in with all the used trains I recently aquired.Previous owner said it had a short in it which I discovered to be a bad driver,1 tire is not insulated from driver center.I need to get a replacement but do not know the scale size,it measured out at .965 with calipers,what I really need is a conversion table and am hoping someone could help me find conversion chart?I've heard driver can be fixed but have no idea how this could be done.
I figure with all the other stuff in lot this loco cost me around $20.With wires connected to frame and drawbar it runs very quiet,The others of this model I've seen had open frame motors ,this one has can motor with flywheel and some pretty poor looking soldering of wires so it may have been re-motored.Once I get driver fixed,clean all the dried up grease from mechanism,lubricate lead and trailing truck axles wheels turn very stiff,clean wheels etc. it should be a good running loco.
Alan
bad driver

 

I took a look at the westside P-1 4-6-2 that was in with all the used trains I recently aquired.Previous owner said it had a short in it which I discovered to be a bad driver,1 tire is not insulated from driver center.I need to get a replacement but do not know the scale size,it measured out at .965 with calipers,what I really need is a conversion table and am hoping someone could help me find conversion chart?I've heard driver can be fixed but have no idea how this could be done.
I figure with all the other stuff in lot this loco cost me around $20.With wires connected to frame and drawbar it runs very quiet,The others of this model I've seen had open frame motors ,this one has can motor with flywheel and some pretty poor looking soldering of wires so it may have been re-motored.Once I get driver fixed,clean all the dried up grease from mechanism,lubricate lead and trailing truck axles wheels turn very stiff,clean wheels etc. it should be a good running loco.
Alan
Re: Welcome to our newest members !

 

开云体育

Hi John,
I am not sure if I saw the idea somewhere else or I used a modified version from what I saw on this page.

But, basically, I just cut a piece of .015 phosphor bronze wire to a close length, then soldered fine wire to the middle. ?I then ?inserted it into a slot I cut with a razor saw, added some CA to glue it in place. ?Then when dry, I adjusted (bent) the wipers to wipe on the backside of the wheelsets. ?I used 4 sets of wipers and got all 8 wheel pickup. You do need to make sure there is not so much tension that the wheels are not free to turn. ?It doesn't take much pressure for a good pickup. ?The most difficult part of this whole operation is finding some decent wheelsets. ?I was fortunate enough to have picked up a bunch from RCR models on eBay. ?He was selling off a bunch of MDC Roundhouse nickel silver wheelsets used on their tenders. ?I suspect wheelsets from the new MDC and Athearn may also work....if you can get them.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

To: yardbirdtrains@...
From: vytis1952@...
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:43:52 -0700
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Welcome to our newest members !

?
Vic: ?That method of installing wipers on plastic trucks is just brilliant! ?Sure beats heck out of the method of constructing wipers and drilling and tapping I've been using. ?I'm going to rush right down to the bench and try it out. THANKS!
JBB
Re: Welcome to our newest members !

 

Vic: ?That method of installing wipers on plastic trucks is just brilliant! ?Sure beats heck out of the method of constructing wipers and drilling and tapping I've been using. ?I'm going to rush right down to the bench and try it out. THANKS!
JBB
Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2

 

In addition to Richard's tips, make sure the wire lugs screwed to the drawbar posts on the loco and tender aren't turned so they are touching. That will create a dead short between the loco & tender frames. If you're going to DCC it I would at least sleeve both lugs with shrink tubing, since this arrangement is just asking for trouble.

Nelson

--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "Richard" <rh@...> wrote:

Dirty tender wheels and contact surfaces between the trucks and the tender body is where the electrical path is the weakest. Cleaning these areas will usually clear up the erratic running problem but only temporarily. Over time the poor running will return. For much improved reliable running, especially of you wish to convert to DCC you will need to make some improvements to the electrical pick-up system.

Starting with the tender, remove both trucks and drill out the rivet on only one side so that the wheels can be replaced with better metal wheels that are insulated on one side. I have used Bachmann wheels for this purpose that work very well. Then replace the rivet with a screw or nut and bolt. The hole can also be threaded so that a nut is not needed.

Next, solder a flexible wire to the rivet on the other side of the truck and connect it to the tender chassis with a screw after drilling and taping a hole for it. These steps will insure good electrical pick-up. Since the tender is only providing power from the left hand rail, it may be necessary to add wipers to the right hand wheels for all wheels pick-up which is what DCC usually requires. It will then be necessary to run a separate wire to the engine that carries the power from the right rail.

That brings up the engine which again is only picking up power from the right hand side. By adding wipers to the left hand driving wheels you will have power pick-up coming from
almost all wheels, thereby insuring the best possible power delivery to the motor for DC operation or to the decoder for DCC operation.
Richard in Vermont

--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "cwvpost1" <pgkdave@> wrote:

I just acquired a Limited Edition Mantua Classic 4-4-2 Atlantic that was still New In the Box. It is over 20 Years Old. When I tried to Run it on a test track, it ran erratic starting and stopping and shorting out.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what would be causing the problem and any suggestion on how to fix it?

Also is there anyway to upgrade this engine to DCC?
Bowser docksider valve gear

 

Does anyone have a close up picture of valve gear installed on a Bowser Docksider? Am in the process & the directions seem a little vague to me. thanks. jerry
Re: Welcome to our newest members !

 

开云体育

Hi Dave,
John Brazaitis responded also with a very nice offer, and his advice on hardwiring is the best. ?I would not use a Bachmann tender for lots of different reasons, especially the fact that it is DCC Ready, for Bachman engines that is. ?When I put a decoder in my Bachman 2-8-0, I found that the headlight did not light correctly. ?I had to configure the decoder so backward was forward and I was always confused about that. ?Then when I decided to add sound, I totally removed that circuit board and hard wired everything. ?Not all DCC ready stuff is as good as it sounds. ?I have hard wired a couple of tenders and I am extremely glad I did. ?Essentially, it?involves?setting up some type of wiper system with a wire soldered to a wiper. ?Some folks use Kadee coupler springs, the ones that fit into the box. ?I use .015 phosphor bronze wire. ?The wipers are situated to be inserted into a cut made into the styrene bolster of a styrene truck and wipe on the inside of each wheel. ?The last one I did on an AHM 0-4-0 ended up pulling power from 8 wheels off of the tender. ?That 0-4-0 doesn't stall anywhere. ?I also did this to my Hobbytown of Boston NW-2 and it never stalls anymore, even with its brass wheels.
Good luck and regards,?
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

To: yardbirdtrains@...
From: pgkdave@...
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:06:54 -0400
Subject: RE: [yardbirdtrains] Welcome to our newest members !

?

Vic, Thanks for the advice!

?

I opened the boiler and disconnected the tender as you suggested and it contains a can motor.? Using alligator clips? and a 3 foot piece of flex track, I was able to get the motor running by connection to a set of the tender wheels that I removed from the tender and connecting the power pack to the test track.? The motor and engine drivers run perfectly so I know now it is the tender that is causing the problem.??? I am in the process now of trying to clean the tender connections.

?

This leads me to another problem I came across with the tender.? How do I remove the tender shell?? I removed both trucks and tried using a small screwdriver to lift the shell but it won’t budge.? ??Is there some trick to removing the shell from Mantua tender frames?

I don’t want to break it.

?

Now that I know it has a can motor I would like to place a decoder in the tender and upgrade it to DCC.? Another option I have to purchase a Bachmann DCC ready tender or since I just received a Broadway Limited PRR K4, I can remove the short haul DCC ready tender from an old Bachmann K4 that was replaced by the ?new Broadway use it instead.?? I would like to use the mantua tender since it matches the engine, what do you think?

?

?

?

From: yardbirdtrains@... [mailto:yardbirdtrains@...] On Behalf Of Victor Bitleris
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:13
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Subject: RE: [yardbirdtrains] Welcome to our newest members !

?

?

Hi there,
Running erratically, no surprise, shorting, unlikely (but, possible).? I suspect the electrical path through the wheels, trucks and framework has oxidized and not conducting elecricity properly.? Mantua locos (as well as other cast locos) are very well known for this feechur.? You will need to check out and clean the electrical path throughout the whole loco.? My best guess is to start with the tender as usually that is where the problem is the worst.? In order to help diagnose this problem, remove the tender and maybe even the boiler and using jumper wires, like the kind you can get at Radio Shack, connect the motor directly to the rails, temporarily.? I bet you get a very smooth response.? If not, then the motor itself needs help.? I don't know if this is a can motor or an open frame.? If it is a can motor, then I kind of doubt you would have a motor issue.? If it is an open frame, then some cleaning and tuning may be required.? Usually it would be the brushes that need cleaning.
As to DCC, almost every locomotive made for DC can be converted.? If it is a can motor loco, then it is even easier as almost all can motors are already isolated from the case.? If it is an open frame, some of them will require insulating between the frame of the motor and the frame of the loco.? However, when converting to DCC, rule number ONE is to ensure the loco runs very well on DC first.
Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris

Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC

To: yardbirdtrains@...
From: pgkdave@...
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:59:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Welcome to our newest members !

?

?

Henry, thanks. ?

?

I do have one question, ?I have a Mantua classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2 that I purchased on EBay. ?It was new in the box and over 20 years old. ?When I tried to run it, it ran erratic stoping and shorting. ?Can Yardbirds repair it and convert it to DCC?

?

There is no contact page on the website to ask questions so please let me know if you can do it. ?My phone number is 347-262-4706


On Mar 21, 2013, at 12:24 PM, "Henry" <long95209@...> wrote:

?

Welcome to the group . Browse the photo albums , some good works in those . Feel free to ask questions , again welcome . Henry H. moderator

?
Re: Welcome to our newest members !

trainsnwrcs
 

Except.....some resist.
I am convinced it is the result of variations in the conent of the specific casting.
I have three Version 2 Mikados. Two worked just fine with the polishing of the contact areas. The third, would not. I have SuperFlex wire, small and smaller, used for centre roller pickups on Lionel stuff.
I drilled the top of the truck and tapped, put an eyelet on the end of the wire, screwed it down, both trucks.
Connected the other end to a new hole next to the drawbar. Works better than the other two.
To deviate from the Mantua bit, I did a whole bunch of our old Athearn disesemals a while back for my brother and nephew.
Cleaned, lubed, polished, and they did just what they did in the 60's....stuttered down the track, headlight flickering.
The power lead from the trucks...I went to the opposite side, drilled and tapped (actually part of the new rotatable brass truck retention tab to replace the square-U shaped clips that are currently being manufactured of Unobtainium), ran new "ground" wired back to the motor, and they run better than any Athearn older diseasemal I ever saw.
Dave

--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "Denis Long" <avanti78@...> wrote:

Dave,

It's been mentioned before here, and I have experienced it; for me one of
the more mysterious difficulties with running the Mantuas, is a problem with
the tender bolsters.

Make sure you clean the bottom surface of the bolsters, and the
corresponding top surface of the tender trucks.

Denis
Re: Welcome to our newest members !

 

Hi, I can site you chapter and verse on the running erracticaly problem on these as I chase it a good long while on the first of these 4-4-2s that I worked on.
The problem is cause by oxidation or the tender bolsters underneath where the trucks screw in. ?The temporary cure is to clean them till they are shiny and clean the carbon deposits off of the the tops of the trucks where they contact the tender. ?I like to you use the metal polish Flitz for this as it also acts as an anti-oxident. ?Mike Bauers was correct in saying that a bit of contact cleaner will help here too. ?Eventualy it will gunk up on you again and start running poorly, and you'll have to clean it up again. ?As you saw in your test lead experiment, they actually run really nice when making good contact.
??The complete cure is to hard wire the trucks to the tender with a wire lead to each truck. ?Better trucks/wheelsets/wipers would add even better pick up.
??The conversion to DCC ought to be easy. ?I'd save my money and not buy the Bachmann tender, but if you want to go that way, I've got a spare 4-6-0 tender siting here and would trade you even up for your Mantua.
BTW, the Mantua floor pries out of the tender shell like a diesel shell. ?Use a small screwdriver to start it and go easy...don't try to force anything
??Also, if you don't want to do the tender wiring and DCC conversion yourself, contact me off list, and we'll work something out that'll leave you smiling.
JBB ?
Re: Fw: (no subject)

 

Here's the whole truth:
""

Walter


On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Denis Long <avanti78@...> wrote:
?

This brings to mind the recent post concerning Martha Raye.

?

While she did special things managing her entertainment group for the GIs, she was not a nurse, was not a colonel, and was not in the National Guard.

Her formal education ended in the fifth grade.

Denis
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