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Re: Teardown Instructions - Rivarossi Milwaukee F-7 4-6-4
Apparently attachments don't work anymore, and the photos section resizes them. Here are the links from Imgur.
https://i.imgur.com/FJFIyrE.jpg
? https://i.imgur.com/ZpD78VL.jpg
? https://i.imgur.com/04a2mpP.jpg
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Re: Cary vs Bowser M1
Henry,
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I'd like to see a picture of your brass boilered I1. Cary did make a small number of brass castings of their decapod shell which would then be combined with a Penn Line chassis. Those are very rare! Jeff jppellas@... -----Original Message-----
From: Henry Hultgren huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Fri, Jan 5, 2018 07:17 PM Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Cary vs Bowser M1 <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_e38589ae-cb7d-413f-a748-0b0f4e908c44"> <div style="background-color: #fff;" class="aolReplacedBody"> <span style="display:none"> </span> <div id="aolmail_ygrp-mlmsg" style="position:relative;"> <div id="aolmail_ygrp-msg" style="z-index: 1;"> <div id="aolmail_ygrp-text"> <p>Thanks Jeff , great data . The latest Bowser model was in need of a good brush up . Got some more OEM parts that it was missing . One of my I1s has a brass boiler , Penn Line ? Thanks Jeff for great info help !! Henry H. -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 1/5/18, Jeff Pellas <a href="mailto:jppellas@...">jppellas@...</a> [yardbirdtrains] <<a href="mailto:yardbirdtrains@...">yardbirdtrains@...</a>> wrote: Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Cary vs Bowser M1 To: <a href="mailto:yardbirdtrains@...">yardbirdtrains@...</a> Date: Friday, January 5, 2018, 3:44 PM Henry, The question of the differences between Cary and Bowser M1 boilers is kind of a complicated one because there are many differences and also many similarities. Frankly, one of the reasons I wanted to acquire that Cary M1a that was recently on eBay was because of the original brass frame and the instructions that went with it that would have completed the story of the Cary boiler for me. I guess that will have to wait. Here are some points about the two products that I am aware of currently: 1. The Cary boiler predates the Bowser boilers by about 25 years. 2. The Cary boiler was meant to be used with existing models of that day. What I'm not sure about is whether it was meant to be used with parts from a Varney 4-8-4 or a Bowser (Redlands) 4-8-2 or either. I don't know if Cary offered a complete set of brass details back then or if it was up to the modeler to find them. That was something I was hoping to find out. Meanwhile the Bowser PRR M1 was offered as a complete kit with a complete super detail kit also available. 3. The Cary boiler was made out of their characteristic Lead/Antimony alloy and was very heavy by itself. The Bowser boiler was cast from lighter Zinc and required additional weight to give it comparable traction to the Cary boilered locos. 4. The Cary boiler allowed one to model a PRR M1a. Bowser had kit variations that allowed one to model the PR M1, M1a or M1b. 5. Bowser did eventually absorb Cary Loco Works and added Cary detail parts to Bowser's inventory but they had to come out with an entirely new boiler for their M1 model because the Cary boiler molds were previously destroyed in a fire. 6. It may be because of a partnership between Bowser and Cary (they definitely worked together on the short lived Bowser USRA Heavy 4-8-2) but the Cary boiler pretty much matches and will fit any Bowser USRA chassis going back several decades. Sometimes you have to modify the boiler or chassis (depending on which generation of USRA kit) but not much. I have two older Bowser USRA chassis under my two Cary M1a's. My Bowser boilered M1 started with a Bowser USRA Light chassis. Not sure about the compatibility with the older Redlands Bowser 4-8-2 but I suspect they would match up well. Bottom line is, when it comes to Cary and Bowser 4-8-2s, there are enough similarities and common lineages to be able to mix and match not just detail parts but many mechanical parts fairly easily. There are dimensional differences but they're not egregious. When I have more time, I'd like to go more in depth to measure the dimensional differences of the various models and talk about the compatibility with USRA 4-8-2 parts and how all of that compares to the prototype PRR M1 locos but I'll save that for another time (when I have more time). I'd also, at some point, like to pick up a BLI M1a and a Sunset brass M1 and do further investigating and comparing... when I have more time. Jeff <a href="mailto:jppellas@...">jppellas@...</a> -----Original Message----- From: Henry Hultgren <a href="mailto:huligin62@...">huligin62@...</a> [yardbirdtrains] <<a href="mailto:yardbirdtrains@...">yardbirdtrains@...</a>> To: yardbirdtrains <<a href="mailto:yardbirdtrains@...">yardbirdtrains@...</a>> Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 4:11 pm Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: PRR brass tender What are the differences between Cary and Bowser PRR M1as ?? Henry -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 1/2/18, Jeff Pellas <a href="mailto:jppellas@...">jppellas@...</a> [yardbirdtrains] <<a href="mailto:yardbirdtrains@...">yardbirdtrains@...</a>> wrote: Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: PRR brass tender To: <a href="mailto:yardbirdtrains@...">yardbirdtrains@...</a> Date: Tuesday, January 2, 2018, 12:30 PM As far as M1 parts...assuming you're talking PRR M1...I have been gradually piecing together a Bowser M1. I was able to find assembled valve gear, a pair of steam pipes for the cylinders, a Penn line tender and a frame with drivers on eBay. Everything else I've been gradually purchasing directly from Bowser. Bowser is running out of parts so they don't have everything to build an M1 but they have the parts to complete the loco I've started. Yes, eventually, I'll end up paying more for this loco than if I had found a complete one on the 2ndary market but I am able to make smaller parts purchases here and there when I have the extra money so it does keep me from having to pony up a larger amount for a one time purchase. I also have two Cary M1a 's riding on Bowser chassis that I am slowly acquiring parts for. Jeff <a href="mailto:jppellas@...">jppellas@...</a> -----Original Message----- From: Henry Hultgren <a href="mailto:huligin62@...">huligin62@...</a> [yardbirdtrains] <<a href="mailto:yardbirdtrains@...">yardbirdtrains@...</a>> To: yardbirdtrains <<a href="mailto:yardbirdtrains@...">yardbirdtrains@...</a>> Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 05:51 AM Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: PRR brass tender I bow to your logical approach Jeff . Best of luck . I missed that Cary kit ? Henry -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 1/1/18, Jeff Pellas <a href="mailto:jppellas@...">jppellas@...</a> [yardbirdtrains] <<a href="mailto:yardbirdtrains@...">yardbirdtrains@...</a>> wrote: Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: PRR brass tender To: <a href="mailto:yardbirdtrains@...">yardbirdtrains@...</a> Date: Monday, January 1, 2018, 7:00 PM The Cary tender is in a drawer with what other N1 pieces I have... which is to say I am still looking for more parts as well. As far as M1 parts go, did you see that Cary M1a kit that sold on eBay recently? Had the super rare brass frame and instructions with it. Got a little too high for me but I coveted it. I have so many parts and pieces of things that I may never get to them all but, first thing's first: a layout to run the trains on. If things play out the way I'm hoping, I'll start it within the year THEN the building of locos will commence. Jeff <a href="mailto:jppellas@...">jppellas@...</a> -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:huligin62@...">huligin62@...</a> [yardbirdtrains] <<a href="mailto:yardbirdtrains@...">yardbirdtrains@...</a>> To: yardbirdtrains <<a href="mailto:yardbirdtrains@...">yardbirdtrains@...</a>> Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 07:03 AM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: PRR brass tender HI how did that Cary tender kit shake out ? Hope your Christmas went well , I've got all of PRR steam now , looking for M1 pieces . And I fell off a chair putting up lights , broke my wrist . They casted it , no cutting this time . HO HO HO ?? 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Cary vs Bowser M1
Henry,
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? ? ?The question of the differences between Cary and Bowser M1 boilers is kind of a complicated one because there are many differences and also many similarities. Frankly, one of the reasons I wanted to acquire that Cary M1a that was recently on eBay was because of the original brass frame and the instructions that went with it that would have completed the story of the Cary boiler for me. I guess that will have to wait. Here are some points about the two products that I am aware of currently:
1. The Cary boiler predates the Bowser boilers by about 25 years.
2. The Cary boiler was meant to be used with existing models of that day. What I'm not sure about is whether it was meant to be used with parts from a Varney 4-8-4 or a Bowser (Redlands) 4-8-2 or either. I don't know if Cary offered a complete set of brass details back then or if it was up to the modeler to find them. That was something I was hoping to find out. Meanwhile the Bowser PRR M1 was offered as a complete kit with a complete super detail kit also available.
3. The Cary boiler was made out of their characteristic Lead/Antimony alloy and was very heavy by itself. The Bowser boiler was cast from lighter Zinc and required additional weight to give it comparable traction to the Cary boilered locos.
4. The Cary boiler allowed one to model a PRR M1a. Bowser had kit variations that allowed one to model the PR M1, M1a or M1b.
5. Bowser did eventually absorb Cary Loco Works and added Cary detail parts to Bowser's inventory but they had to come out with an entirely new boiler for their M1 model because the Cary boiler molds were previously destroyed in a fire.?
6. It may be because of a partnership between Bowser and Cary (they definitely worked together on the short lived Bowser USRA Heavy 4-8-2) but the Cary boiler pretty much matches and will fit any Bowser USRA chassis going back several decades. Sometimes you have to modify the boiler or chassis (depending on which generation of USRA kit) but not much. I have two older Bowser USRA chassis under my two Cary M1a's. My Bowser boilered M1 started with a Bowser USRA Light chassis. Not sure about the compatibility with the older Redlands Bowser 4-8-2 but I suspect they would match up well.
Bottom line is, when it comes to Cary and Bowser 4-8-2s, there are enough similarities and common lineages to be able to mix and match not just detail parts but many mechanical parts fairly easily. There are dimensional differences but they're not egregious. When I have more time, I'd like to go more in depth to measure the dimensional differences of the various models and talk about the compatibility with USRA 4-8-2 parts and how all of that compares to the prototype PRR M1 locos but I'll save that for another time (when I have more time). I'd also, at some point, like to pick up a BLI M1a and a Sunset brass M1 and do further investigating and comparing... when I have more time.?
? ? ??
Jeff
jppellas@...
-----Original Message-----
From: Henry Hultgren huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains] To: yardbirdtrains Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 4:11 pm Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: PRR brass tender What are the differences between Cary and Bowser PRR M1as ?? Henry
-------------------------------------------- On Tue, 1/2/18, Jeff Pellas jppellas@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: PRR brass tender To: yardbirdtrains@... Date: Tuesday, January 2, 2018, 12:30 PM ? As far as M1 parts...assuming you're talking PRR M1...I have been gradually piecing together a Bowser M1. I was able to find assembled valve gear, a pair of steam pipes for the cylinders, a Penn line tender and a frame with drivers on eBay. Everything else I've been gradually purchasing directly from Bowser. Bowser is running out of parts so they don't have everything to build an M1 but they have the parts to complete the loco I've started. Yes, eventually, I'll end up paying more for this loco than if I had found a complete one on the 2ndary market but I am able to make smaller parts purchases here and there when I have the extra money so it does keep me from having to pony up a larger amount for a one time purchase. I also have two Cary M1a 's riding on Bowser chassis that I am slowly acquiring parts for.? Jeff jppellas@... -----Original Message----- From: Henry Hultgren huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 05:51 AM Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: PRR brass tender ? I bow to your logical approach Jeff . Best of luck . I missed that Cary kit ? Henry -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 1/1/18, Jeff Pellas jppellas@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: PRR brass tender To: yardbirdtrains@... Date: Monday, January 1, 2018, 7:00 PM ? The Cary tender is in a drawer with what other N1 pieces I have... which is to say I am still looking for more parts as well. As far as M1 parts go, did you see that Cary M1a kit that sold on eBay recently? Had the super rare brass frame and instructions with it. Got a little too high for me but I coveted it. I have so many parts and pieces of things that I may never get to them all but, first thing's first: a layout to run the trains on. If things play out the way I'm hoping, I'll start it within the year THEN the building of locos will commence. Jeff jppellas@... -----Original Message----- From: huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains] <yardbirdtrains@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 07:03 AM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: PRR brass tender ? HI how did that Cary tender kit shake out ? Hope your Christmas went well , I've got all of PRR steam now , looking for M1 pieces . And I fell off a chair putting up lights , broke my wrist . They casted it , no cutting this time . HO HO HO ?? 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PRR diesel F units
I'm looking for information about these locomotives. ?The shells are plastic, maybe Globe the power units are unknown. The B unit ?has a broken pin that holds the truck to the frame. ?These were a quality product. Fixing would be easy drill?out the old pin and insert ?a new rod. All axels have brass bearings, after i cleaned some of the dried grease the wheels turned freely. motor worked well and drew 1/2 amp.before oiling. I could only attach 3 pictures. I want to sell them as I'm getting rid of vintage cars and locomotives. I have not set a price, if anyone is interested get in touch Ron Christensen |
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Re: PRR brass tender
As far as M1 parts...assuming you're talking PRR M1...I have been gradually piecing together a Bowser M1. I was able to find assembled valve gear, a pair of steam pipes for the cylinders, a Penn line tender and a frame with drivers on eBay. Everything else I've been gradually purchasing directly from Bowser. Bowser is running out of parts so they don't have everything to build an M1 but they have the parts to complete the loco I've started. Yes, eventually, I'll end up paying more for this loco than if I had found a complete one on the 2ndary market but I am able to make smaller parts purchases here and there when I have the extra money so it does keep me from having to pony up a larger amount for a one time purchase. I also have two Cary M1a 's riding on Bowser chassis that I am slowly acquiring parts for.?
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Jeff jppellas@... -----Original Message-----
From: Henry Hultgren huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains] To: yardbirdtrains Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 05:51 AM Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: PRR brass tender I bow to your logical approach Jeff . Best of luck . I missed that Cary kit ? Henry |
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Re: PRR brass tender
The Cary tender is in a drawer with what other N1 pieces I have... which is to say I am still looking for more parts as well. As far as M1 parts go, did you see that Cary M1a kit that sold on eBay recently? Had the super rare brass frame and instructions with it. Got a little too high for me but I coveted it. I have so many parts and pieces of things that I may never get to them all but, first thing's first: a layout to run the trains on. If things play out the way I'm hoping, I'll start it within the year THEN the building of locos will commence.
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Jeff jppellas@... -----Original Message-----
From: huligin62@... [yardbirdtrains] To: yardbirdtrains Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 07:03 AM Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: PRR brass tender HI how did that Cary tender kit shake out ? Hope your Christmas went well , I've got all of PRR steam now , looking for M1 pieces . And I fell off a chair putting up lights , broke my wrist . They casted it , no cutting this time . HO HO HO ?? Henry?
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Jeff Pellas
ron christensen