Re: TX802 troubleshooting
Dear All
Help please !!!
I have a DX 7 initial version
Problem ...No sound generated at all ....is it a battery change that is required or else
Please extend your help . Many Thanks
With kind regards, Raj
From Mauritius
On Saturday, February 4, 2023, 02:15:04 AM GMT+4, <contact@...> wrote:
Nothing gets changed in the patch. This is not like a memory corruption problem. What is happening is that what the display says does not match the sound the machine makes. For example, the display says all output levels are zero except OP1 with 99. I can save this just fine, that is not the problem. The sound that comes out the machine is just not what the display says. The main CPU is responsible for editing and patch storage. The secondary ("slave") CPU is responsible for sending the currently playing sounds into the EGM, and the algorithm into the OPS2. This is where the problem must be. Using a software MIDI editor tells me nothing about what goes on with the EGM. The MIDI editor can only talk to the main CPU and the main CPU thinks everything is fine. I suspect that the output levels and the L1, L2 and L3 levels are combined because changing L1, L2 and L3 does nothing, just like changing output levels do nothing Changing L4 does work; if I set it to 99 on a carrier I get the drone sound you would expect. The other thing that _does_ work is setting envelope rates. If I take an init patch and set R1 of OP2 and OP3 to 0, then I get the proper sound (single operator sine wave). My best guess is still that some but not all of the 32 bytes that go into the EGM get corrupted. And it's always the same bytes that get corrupted. Op vr 3 feb. 2023 om 21:45 schreef belzrebuth s via groups.io <belzrebuth= [email protected]>: > > I would troubleshoot with a midi editor like SoundQuest or whatever to see exactly what gets changed realtime. > > With an init patch you may be missing something. > > If you get the other operator levels back to zero do they stay at zero after saving? > > Can you make a patch? from scratch set levels back to zero and then set them like 10 20 30 then save and recall that patch? > > If you're able to recall that patch I would compare the original and the modified one (modified by the machine I mean) to verify my findings. > > If it's indeed *only* the OP output levels that get scrambled only then I would proceed further chasing that error. > > In fact one could take it even further and take a screenshot of a patch with ALL values set in a custom way and check what else gets changed before going into a single direction. > > On 2/3/2023 10:31 PM, José Juan wrote: > > Hi, > > I did a full recap of the TX802, and it sounded awesome afterwards. > > Electrolytic capacitors are dead on most 80s Yamaha Roland Korg gear. > > To change all capacitors is a PITA, but the machine gets new expected life. > > Just my suggest. Not every tech guy is capable of doing that without damaging the unit. > > Good luck, and take care. > > JJ > > El vie, 3 feb 2023, 21:24, < contact@...> escribió: >> >> Hello group, >> >> I would like to share a troubleshooting story I am in the middle of. >> >> I bought a broken TX802 on the internet. I knew it was broken when I bought it, I felt like taking a chance. The seller said it worked but has "digital noise". >> >> It turns out this TX802 is in pretty good shape. Everything works except that the sounds are wrong. There appears to be something wrong with the output levels of the operators. >> >> If I make an init sound, I am supposed to get a single operator sine wave with an organ envelope. The user interface shows the expected parameters. But when I play it, I get more or less the sound of algorithm 1 with all operators at 99. A harsh overmodulated FM sound. When I then change the algorithm to 32, I get a clean sine wave sound. >> >> It's a fascinating puzzle for me. Almost all the explanations I can come up with would make the TX sound more broken than it actually does. The EGM and OPS2 chips cannot be broken because they can make clean sounds. (I have a DX7II which is my reference.) Data is getting corrupted only in a very specific place, which happens to affect the output levels. >> >> My best guess at the moment is that there is a problem with the chip enable line of the EGM chip that causes it to latch bad output level data when it should not be reading data in the first place. But I have not seen evidence of that yet on my oscilloscope. >> >> I don't know if anyone else finds this interesting, but if there is someone who finds it interesting, they are probably on this list. :) >> >> Cheers, Jacob >> >> >> >> > > > > > >
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Re: TX802 troubleshooting
They always say stuff like that. They work on a timeclock.? They gotta make money with every job.? I can take 10X as long if I desire. Point being, the digital components are most probably still good. The linear components are always suspect at this age. ? L. ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Daniel Forró via groups.io
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2023 8:38 PM
To: [email protected]; josejuangallego@...
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX802 troubleshooting? It is not recommended to replace all caps, only the bad ones. Service experts say: If it works, leave it so. ?
? Hi, I did a full recap of the TX802, and it sounded awesome afterwards. Electrolytic capacitors are dead on most 80s Yamaha Roland Korg gear. To change all capacitors is a PITA, but the machine gets new expected life. Just my suggest. Not every tech guy is capable of doing that without damaging the unit. Good luck, and take care.? ? Hello group, I would like to share a troubleshooting story I am in the middle of. I bought a broken TX802 on the internet. I knew it was broken when I bought it, I felt like taking a chance. The seller said it worked but has "digital noise". It turns out this TX802 is in pretty good shape. Everything works except that the sounds are wrong. There appears to be something wrong with the output levels of the operators. If I make an init sound, I am supposed to get a single operator sine wave with an organ envelope. The user interface shows the expected parameters. But when I play it, I get more or less the sound of algorithm 1 with all operators at 99. A harsh overmodulated FM sound. When I then change the algorithm to 32, I get a clean sine wave sound. It's a fascinating puzzle for me. Almost all the explanations I can come up with would make the TX sound more broken than it actually does. The EGM and OPS2 chips cannot be broken because they can make clean sounds. (I have a DX7II which is my reference.) Data is getting corrupted only in a very specific place, which happens to affect the output levels. My best guess at the moment is that there is a problem with the chip enable line of the EGM chip that causes it to latch bad output level data when it should not be reading data in the first place. But I have not seen evidence of that yet on my oscilloscope. I don't know if anyone else finds this interesting, but if there is someone who finds it interesting, they are probably on this list. :) Cheers, Jacob
?
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Re: TX802 troubleshooting
Have your tried to replace OS Eproms?
Have you done diagnostics test?
There were some reports about noise at the outputs in some series of TX802 - solved by replacing opamps.
Problems with sound quality can be also caused by muting transistors. Somebody deactivated them or pull out, somebody replaced them.
Check the signal from the output to DAC, to find if the problem is in analog circuit or digital circuit.?
Check all crystals, too.
Daniel Forró
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Hello group, I would like to share a troubleshooting story I am in the middle of. I bought a broken TX802 on the internet. I knew it was broken when I bought it, I felt like taking a chance. The seller said it worked but has "digital noise". It turns out this TX802 is in pretty good shape. Everything works except that the sounds are wrong. There appears to be something wrong with the output levels of the operators. If I make an init sound, I am supposed to get a single operator sine wave with an organ envelope. The user interface shows the expected parameters. But when I play it, I get more or less the sound of algorithm 1 with all operators at 99. A harsh overmodulated FM sound. When I then change the algorithm to 32, I get a clean sine wave sound. It's a fascinating puzzle for me. Almost all the explanations I can come up with would make the TX sound more broken than it actually does. The EGM and OPS2 chips cannot be broken because they can make clean sounds. (I have a DX7II which is my reference.) Data is getting corrupted only in a very specific place, which happens to affect the output levels. My best guess at the moment is that there is a problem with the chip enable line of the EGM chip that causes it to latch bad output level data when it should not be reading data in the first place. But I have not seen evidence of that yet on my oscilloscope. I don't know if anyone else finds this interesting, but if there is someone who finds it interesting, they are probably on this list. :) Cheers, Jacob
|
Re: TX802 troubleshooting
If it is software problem, than replacing OS Eproms (three pieces) can help. But this can be hardware problem.?
Daniel Forró
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I would troubleshoot with a midi editor like SoundQuest or
whatever to see exactly what gets changed realtime. With an init patch you may be missing something.
If you get the other operator levels back to zero do they stay at
zero after saving?
Can you make a patch? from scratch set levels back to zero and
then set them like 10 20 30 then save and recall that patch?
If you're able to recall that patch I would compare the original
and the modified one (modified by the machine I mean) to verify my
findings. If it's indeed *only* the OP output levels that get scrambled
only then I would proceed further chasing that error. In fact one could take it even further and take a screenshot of a
patch with ALL values set in a custom way and check what else gets
changed before going into a single direction.
On 2/3/2023 10:31 PM, José Juan wrote:
Hi,
I did a full recap of the TX802, and it sounded
awesome afterwards.
Electrolytic capacitors are dead on most 80s
Yamaha Roland Korg gear.
To change all capacitors is a PITA, but the
machine gets new expected life.
Just my suggest. Not every tech guy is capable
of doing that without damaging the unit.
Good luck, and take care.?
JJ
Hello group, I would like to share a troubleshooting story I am in the
middle of. I bought a broken TX802 on the internet. I knew it was
broken when I bought it, I felt like taking a chance. The
seller said it worked but has "digital noise". It turns out this TX802 is in pretty good shape. Everything
works except that the sounds are wrong. There appears to be
something wrong with the output levels of the operators. If I make an init sound, I am supposed to get a single
operator sine wave with an organ envelope. The user
interface shows the expected parameters. But when I play it,
I get more or less the sound of algorithm 1 with all
operators at 99. A harsh overmodulated FM sound. When I then
change the algorithm to 32, I get a clean sine wave sound. It's a fascinating puzzle for me. Almost all the
explanations I can come up with would make the TX sound more
broken than it actually does. The EGM and OPS2 chips cannot
be broken because they can make clean sounds. (I have a
DX7II which is my reference.) Data is getting corrupted only
in a very specific place, which happens to affect the output
levels. My best guess at the moment is that there is a problem with
the chip enable line of the EGM chip that causes it to latch
bad output level data when it should not be reading data in
the first place. But I have not seen evidence of that yet on
my oscilloscope. I don't know if anyone else finds this interesting, but if
there is someone who finds it interesting, they are probably
on this list. :) Cheers, Jacob
|
Re: TX802 troubleshooting
It is not recommended to replace all caps, only the bad ones. Service experts say: If it works, leave it so.
Daniel Forró
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Show quoted text
Hi,
I did a full recap of the TX802, and it sounded awesome afterwards.
Electrolytic capacitors are dead on most 80s Yamaha Roland Korg gear.
To change all capacitors is a PITA, but the machine gets new expected life.
Just my suggest. Not every tech guy is capable of doing that without damaging the unit.
Good luck, and take care.?
JJ Hello group, I would like to share a troubleshooting story I am in the middle of. I bought a broken TX802 on the internet. I knew it was broken when I bought it, I felt like taking a chance. The seller said it worked but has "digital noise". It turns out this TX802 is in pretty good shape. Everything works except that the sounds are wrong. There appears to be something wrong with the output levels of the operators. If I make an init sound, I am supposed to get a single operator sine wave with an organ envelope. The user interface shows the expected parameters. But when I play it, I get more or less the sound of algorithm 1 with all operators at 99. A harsh overmodulated FM sound. When I then change the algorithm to 32, I get a clean sine wave sound. It's a fascinating puzzle for me. Almost all the explanations I can come up with would make the TX sound more broken than it actually does. The EGM and OPS2 chips cannot be broken because they can make clean sounds. (I have a DX7II which is my reference.) Data is getting corrupted only in a very specific place, which happens to affect the output levels. My best guess at the moment is that there is a problem with the chip enable line of the EGM chip that causes it to latch bad output level data when it should not be reading data in the first place. But I have not seen evidence of that yet on my oscilloscope. I don't know if anyone else finds this interesting, but if there is someone who finds it interesting, they are probably on this list. :) Cheers, Jacob
|
Re: TX802 troubleshooting
This is true. Plus, do not hesitate to change out the tantalum caps on the digital boards, too. Many electrolytic have been changed only to find problems in data addressing and especially at boot.? The little, amber, tantalum caps are usually to blame. This gear is 35 years old at least. ? L. ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of José Juan
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2023 2:31 PM
To: [email protected]; contact@...
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX802 troubleshooting? Hi, I did a full recap of the TX802, and it sounded awesome afterwards. Electrolytic capacitors are dead on most 80s Yamaha Roland Korg gear. To change all capacitors is a PITA, but the machine gets new expected life. Just my suggest. Not every tech guy is capable of doing that without damaging the unit. Good luck, and take care.? ? Hello group, I would like to share a troubleshooting story I am in the middle of. I bought a broken TX802 on the internet. I knew it was broken when I bought it, I felt like taking a chance. The seller said it worked but has "digital noise". It turns out this TX802 is in pretty good shape. Everything works except that the sounds are wrong. There appears to be something wrong with the output levels of the operators. If I make an init sound, I am supposed to get a single operator sine wave with an organ envelope. The user interface shows the expected parameters. But when I play it, I get more or less the sound of algorithm 1 with all operators at 99. A harsh overmodulated FM sound. When I then change the algorithm to 32, I get a clean sine wave sound. It's a fascinating puzzle for me. Almost all the explanations I can come up with would make the TX sound more broken than it actually does. The EGM and OPS2 chips cannot be broken because they can make clean sounds. (I have a DX7II which is my reference.) Data is getting corrupted only in a very specific place, which happens to affect the output levels. My best guess at the moment is that there is a problem with the chip enable line of the EGM chip that causes it to latch bad output level data when it should not be reading data in the first place. But I have not seen evidence of that yet on my oscilloscope. I don't know if anyone else finds this interesting, but if there is someone who finds it interesting, they are probably on this list. :) Cheers, Jacob
|
Re: TX802 troubleshooting
Nothing gets changed in the patch. This is not like a memory corruption problem.
What is happening is that what the display says does not match the
sound the machine makes. For example, the display says all output
levels are zero except OP1 with 99. I can save this just fine, that is
not the problem. The sound that comes out the machine is just not what
the display says.
The main CPU is responsible for editing and patch storage. The
secondary ("slave") CPU is responsible for sending the currently
playing sounds into the EGM, and the algorithm into the OPS2. This is
where the problem must be.
Using a software MIDI editor tells me nothing about what goes on with
the EGM. The MIDI editor can only talk to the main CPU and the main
CPU thinks everything is fine.
I suspect that the output levels and the L1, L2 and L3 levels are
combined because changing L1, L2 and L3 does nothing, just like
changing output levels do nothing
Changing L4 does work; if I set it to 99 on a carrier I get the drone
sound you would expect.
The other thing that _does_ work is setting envelope rates. If I take
an init patch and set R1 of OP2 and OP3 to 0, then I get the proper
sound (single operator sine wave).
My best guess is still that some but not all of the 32 bytes that go
into the EGM get corrupted. And it's always the same bytes that get
corrupted.
Op vr 3 feb. 2023 om 21:45 schreef belzrebuth s via groups.io
<belzrebuth@...>:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I would troubleshoot with a midi editor like SoundQuest or whatever to see exactly what gets changed realtime.
With an init patch you may be missing something.
If you get the other operator levels back to zero do they stay at zero after saving?
Can you make a patch from scratch set levels back to zero and then set them like 10 20 30 then save and recall that patch?
If you're able to recall that patch I would compare the original and the modified one (modified by the machine I mean) to verify my findings.
If it's indeed *only* the OP output levels that get scrambled only then I would proceed further chasing that error.
In fact one could take it even further and take a screenshot of a patch with ALL values set in a custom way and check what else gets changed before going into a single direction.
On 2/3/2023 10:31 PM, José Juan wrote:
Hi,
I did a full recap of the TX802, and it sounded awesome afterwards.
Electrolytic capacitors are dead on most 80s Yamaha Roland Korg gear.
To change all capacitors is a PITA, but the machine gets new expected life.
Just my suggest. Not every tech guy is capable of doing that without damaging the unit.
Good luck, and take care.
JJ
El vie, 3 feb 2023, 21:24, <contact@...> escribió:
Hello group,
I would like to share a troubleshooting story I am in the middle of.
I bought a broken TX802 on the internet. I knew it was broken when I bought it, I felt like taking a chance. The seller said it worked but has "digital noise".
It turns out this TX802 is in pretty good shape. Everything works except that the sounds are wrong. There appears to be something wrong with the output levels of the operators.
If I make an init sound, I am supposed to get a single operator sine wave with an organ envelope. The user interface shows the expected parameters. But when I play it, I get more or less the sound of algorithm 1 with all operators at 99. A harsh overmodulated FM sound. When I then change the algorithm to 32, I get a clean sine wave sound.
It's a fascinating puzzle for me. Almost all the explanations I can come up with would make the TX sound more broken than it actually does. The EGM and OPS2 chips cannot be broken because they can make clean sounds. (I have a DX7II which is my reference.) Data is getting corrupted only in a very specific place, which happens to affect the output levels.
My best guess at the moment is that there is a problem with the chip enable line of the EGM chip that causes it to latch bad output level data when it should not be reading data in the first place. But I have not seen evidence of that yet on my oscilloscope.
I don't know if anyone else finds this interesting, but if there is someone who finds it interesting, they are probably on this list. :)
Cheers, Jacob
|
Re: TX802 troubleshooting
I would troubleshoot with a midi editor like SoundQuest or
whatever to see exactly what gets changed realtime.
With an init patch you may be missing something.
If you get the other operator levels back to zero do they stay at
zero after saving?
Can you make a patch? from scratch set levels back to zero and
then set them like 10 20 30 then save and recall that patch?
If you're able to recall that patch I would compare the original
and the modified one (modified by the machine I mean) to verify my
findings.
If it's indeed *only* the OP output levels that get scrambled
only then I would proceed further chasing that error.
In fact one could take it even further and take a screenshot of a
patch with ALL values set in a custom way and check what else gets
changed before going into a single direction.
On 2/3/2023 10:31 PM, José Juan wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi,
I did a full recap of the TX802, and it sounded
awesome afterwards.
Electrolytic capacitors are dead on most 80s
Yamaha Roland Korg gear.
To change all capacitors is a PITA, but the
machine gets new expected life.
Just my suggest. Not every tech guy is capable
of doing that without damaging the unit.
Good luck, and take care.?
JJ
Hello group,
I would like to share a troubleshooting story I am in the
middle of.
I bought a broken TX802 on the internet. I knew it was
broken when I bought it, I felt like taking a chance. The
seller said it worked but has "digital noise".
It turns out this TX802 is in pretty good shape. Everything
works except that the sounds are wrong. There appears to be
something wrong with the output levels of the operators.
If I make an init sound, I am supposed to get a single
operator sine wave with an organ envelope. The user
interface shows the expected parameters. But when I play it,
I get more or less the sound of algorithm 1 with all
operators at 99. A harsh overmodulated FM sound. When I then
change the algorithm to 32, I get a clean sine wave sound.
It's a fascinating puzzle for me. Almost all the
explanations I can come up with would make the TX sound more
broken than it actually does. The EGM and OPS2 chips cannot
be broken because they can make clean sounds. (I have a
DX7II which is my reference.) Data is getting corrupted only
in a very specific place, which happens to affect the output
levels.
My best guess at the moment is that there is a problem with
the chip enable line of the EGM chip that causes it to latch
bad output level data when it should not be reading data in
the first place. But I have not seen evidence of that yet on
my oscilloscope.
I don't know if anyone else finds this interesting, but if
there is someone who finds it interesting, they are probably
on this list. :)
Cheers, Jacob
|
Re: TX802 troubleshooting
Hi,
I did a full recap of the TX802, and it sounded awesome afterwards.
Electrolytic capacitors are dead on most 80s Yamaha Roland Korg gear.
To change all capacitors is a PITA, but the machine gets new expected life.
Just my suggest. Not every tech guy is capable of doing that without damaging the unit.
Good luck, and take care.?
JJ
Hello group,
I would like to share a troubleshooting story I am in the middle of.
I bought a broken TX802 on the internet. I knew it was broken when I bought it, I felt like taking a chance. The seller said it worked but has "digital noise".
It turns out this TX802 is in pretty good shape. Everything works except that the sounds are wrong. There appears to be something wrong with the output levels of the operators.
If I make an init sound, I am supposed to get a single operator sine wave with an organ envelope. The user interface shows the expected parameters. But when I play it, I get more or less the sound of algorithm 1 with all operators at 99. A harsh overmodulated FM sound. When I then change the algorithm to 32, I get a clean sine wave sound.
It's a fascinating puzzle for me. Almost all the explanations I can come up with would make the TX sound more broken than it actually does. The EGM and OPS2 chips cannot be broken because they can make clean sounds. (I have a DX7II which is my reference.) Data is getting corrupted only in a very specific place, which happens to affect the output levels.
My best guess at the moment is that there is a problem with the chip enable line of the EGM chip that causes it to latch bad output level data when it should not be reading data in the first place. But I have not seen evidence of that yet on my oscilloscope.
I don't know if anyone else finds this interesting, but if there is someone who finds it interesting, they are probably on this list. :)
Cheers, Jacob
|
Hello group,
I would like to share a troubleshooting story I am in the middle of.
I bought a broken TX802 on the internet. I knew it was broken when I bought it, I felt like taking a chance. The seller said it worked but has "digital noise".
It turns out this TX802 is in pretty good shape. Everything works except that the sounds are wrong. There appears to be something wrong with the output levels of the operators.
If I make an init sound, I am supposed to get a single operator sine wave with an organ envelope. The user interface shows the expected parameters. But when I play it, I get more or less the sound of algorithm 1 with all operators at 99. A harsh overmodulated FM sound. When I then change the algorithm to 32, I get a clean sine wave sound.
It's a fascinating puzzle for me. Almost all the explanations I can come up with would make the TX sound more broken than it actually does. The EGM and OPS2 chips cannot be broken because they can make clean sounds. (I have a DX7II which is my reference.) Data is getting corrupted only in a very specific place, which happens to affect the output levels.
My best guess at the moment is that there is a problem with the chip enable line of the EGM chip that causes it to latch bad output level data when it should not be reading data in the first place. But I have not seen evidence of that yet on my oscilloscope.
I don't know if anyone else finds this interesting, but if there is someone who finds it interesting, they are probably on this list. :)
Cheers, Jacob
|
Re: V50 bug (or feature?) in ROM V1.1
Ok ! ? Must be an internal feature then ! ? ? ? I actually checked that no "All Notes Off", or any other message, get transmitted through MIDI when Tch is changed. It is an internal behavior of the synth, not related to what goes onto the MIDI cables to and from the sequencer. ?
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On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 7:13 PM < waveterm@...> wrote: I??d suggest connecting the V50 out to a midi analyzer to see if the V50 sends an All Notes Off message when you switch the Tx Channel. ? Midi OX on a PC should tell you the truth. Then you can apply a midi filter in between the V50 midi out and Squarp midi in. ? ? Hello,? Is it possible a midi message filtering? You can filter the data that feed the V50 and exclude other than note, aftertouch, modulation wheel . Just a suggestion. AFAIK the v50 secuencer accepts external control, and that may mean the appearance of reset messages when receiving sequencer stop midi message. ? El mié, 9 nov 2022 17:26, Yann Kieffer <emilito7@...> escribió: Hello,
I am the happy, and quite recent, owner of a Yamaha V50.
I bought it from the first-hand owner, and the instrument is in near-perfect condition.
I am using it to create live music, in tandem with an external sequencer - a Squarp Pyramid, to be precise - but my issue should definitely be visible with other sequencers as well!
So it is a DAW-less setup, and I will try to describe it now.
I am using only the V50 and the sequencer, no other piece of gear. The V50 is acting as "master keyboard", meaning that I set "LOCAL" to "Off" in the MIDI settings, and use the keyboard of the V50 to send the note informations to the sequencer. Then the sequencer feeds back the V50 with the note information (both simultaneous, and recorded), and the V50 acts as a multi-timbral instrument, playing different MIDI tracks simultaneously. Of course, I am connecting them by MIDI DIN cables, one cable for each direction.
Now to my particular issue with this setup.
There are several ways to use the Pyramid sequencer; the way I am using it is by recording different phrases into tracks by changing the track on the master keyboard. I am not touching the sequencer; the sequencer is recording on all tracks simultaneously, and I actually use a footswitch to activate/deactivate recording. Although the sequencer is listening to the 16 MIDI channels, I am sending information to only one MIDI channel; and to choose that channel, I switch the MIDI channel on the master keyboard itself.
So in the case of the V50, I am actually changing the MIDI channel named "TCh" in the MIDI settings; Tch could stand for Transmitting Channel I suppose!
When doing so, the synth part of the V50 - the sound generators - actually shuts off at once the very moment I am changing the channel. Of course, it is not very nice when several parts are playing, and they all shut up at once. At least, the music keeps on playing with the next NOTE ON messages coming in, but the resulting sound is definitely not very musical.
I think it weird that the sound generator should stop when switching the Tch channel, especially with LOCAL set to Off. I think that maybe, Yamaha engineers where thinking in the context of LOCAL being on, that in the case that a musician switches channels before letting go or some notes, then the NOTE OFF messages would go to the wrong track, and the notes would be stuck. (I haven't seen a feature in the V50 to stop stuck notes, by the way...) This is why I am referring in the title of this message to a possible feature.
Now, my ROM version is 1.1. I understand that the latest ROM is 1.3. And so, naturally, I am wondering whether this latest ROM features the same bug/feature, or not.
I am referring to the firmware as "ROM", but I have no actual idea whether it is an EPROM or a "mask ROM"; and whether it is socketed or soldered to the board; since I haven't tried opening my V50 yet.
Does anybody know how V1.3 behaves with regard to stopping all notes of the sound engine?
Thank you for reading,
Yann
|
Re: V50 bug (or feature?) in ROM V1.1
Hello!
I actually checked that no "All Notes Off", or any other message, get transmitted through MIDI when Tch is changed. It is an internal behavior of the synth, not related to what goes onto the MIDI cables to and from the sequencer.
Yann
I??d suggest connecting the V50 out to a midi analyzer to see if the V50 sends an All Notes Off message when you switch the Tx Channel. ? Midi OX on a PC should tell you the truth. Then you can apply a midi filter in between the V50 midi out and Squarp midi in. ? ? Hello,? Is it possible a midi message filtering? You can filter the data that feed the V50 and exclude other than note, aftertouch, modulation wheel . Just a suggestion. AFAIK the v50 secuencer accepts external control, and that may mean the appearance of reset messages when receiving sequencer stop midi message. ? El mié, 9 nov 2022 17:26, Yann Kieffer <emilito7@...> escribió: Hello,
I am the happy, and quite recent, owner of a Yamaha V50.
I bought it from the first-hand owner, and the instrument is in near-perfect condition.
I am using it to create live music, in tandem with an external sequencer - a Squarp Pyramid, to be precise - but my issue should definitely be visible with other sequencers as well!
So it is a DAW-less setup, and I will try to describe it now.
I am using only the V50 and the sequencer, no other piece of gear. The V50 is acting as "master keyboard", meaning that I set "LOCAL" to "Off" in the MIDI settings, and use the keyboard of the V50 to send the note informations to the sequencer. Then the sequencer feeds back the V50 with the note information (both simultaneous, and recorded), and the V50 acts as a multi-timbral instrument, playing different MIDI tracks simultaneously. Of course, I am connecting them by MIDI DIN cables, one cable for each direction.
Now to my particular issue with this setup.
There are several ways to use the Pyramid sequencer; the way I am using it is by recording different phrases into tracks by changing the track on the master keyboard. I am not touching the sequencer; the sequencer is recording on all tracks simultaneously, and I actually use a footswitch to activate/deactivate recording. Although the sequencer is listening to the 16 MIDI channels, I am sending information to only one MIDI channel; and to choose that channel, I switch the MIDI channel on the master keyboard itself.
So in the case of the V50, I am actually changing the MIDI channel named "TCh" in the MIDI settings; Tch could stand for Transmitting Channel I suppose!
When doing so, the synth part of the V50 - the sound generators - actually shuts off at once the very moment I am changing the channel. Of course, it is not very nice when several parts are playing, and they all shut up at once. At least, the music keeps on playing with the next NOTE ON messages coming in, but the resulting sound is definitely not very musical.
I think it weird that the sound generator should stop when switching the Tch channel, especially with LOCAL set to Off. I think that maybe, Yamaha engineers where thinking in the context of LOCAL being on, that in the case that a musician switches channels before letting go or some notes, then the NOTE OFF messages would go to the wrong track, and the notes would be stuck. (I haven't seen a feature in the V50 to stop stuck notes, by the way...) This is why I am referring in the title of this message to a possible feature.
Now, my ROM version is 1.1. I understand that the latest ROM is 1.3. And so, naturally, I am wondering whether this latest ROM features the same bug/feature, or not.
I am referring to the firmware as "ROM", but I have no actual idea whether it is an EPROM or a "mask ROM"; and whether it is socketed or soldered to the board; since I haven't tried opening my V50 yet.
Does anybody know how V1.3 behaves with regard to stopping all notes of the sound engine?
Thank you for reading,
Yann
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Re: V50 bug (or feature?) in ROM V1.1
I??d suggest connecting the V50 out to a midi analyzer to see if the V50 sends an All Notes Off message when you switch the Tx Channel. ? Midi OX on a PC should tell you the truth. Then you can apply a midi filter in between the V50 midi out and Squarp midi in. ? ? Hello,? Is it possible a midi message filtering? You can filter the data that feed the V50 and exclude other than note, aftertouch, modulation wheel . Just a suggestion. AFAIK the v50 secuencer accepts external control, and that may mean the appearance of reset messages when receiving sequencer stop midi message. ?
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El mié, 9 nov 2022 17:26, Yann Kieffer < emilito7@...> escribió: Hello,
I am the happy, and quite recent, owner of a Yamaha V50.
I bought it from the first-hand owner, and the instrument is in near-perfect condition.
I am using it to create live music, in tandem with an external sequencer - a Squarp Pyramid, to be precise - but my issue should definitely be visible with other sequencers as well!
So it is a DAW-less setup, and I will try to describe it now.
I am using only the V50 and the sequencer, no other piece of gear. The V50 is acting as "master keyboard", meaning that I set "LOCAL" to "Off" in the MIDI settings, and use the keyboard of the V50 to send the note informations to the sequencer. Then the sequencer feeds back the V50 with the note information (both simultaneous, and recorded), and the V50 acts as a multi-timbral instrument, playing different MIDI tracks simultaneously. Of course, I am connecting them by MIDI DIN cables, one cable for each direction.
Now to my particular issue with this setup.
There are several ways to use the Pyramid sequencer; the way I am using it is by recording different phrases into tracks by changing the track on the master keyboard. I am not touching the sequencer; the sequencer is recording on all tracks simultaneously, and I actually use a footswitch to activate/deactivate recording. Although the sequencer is listening to the 16 MIDI channels, I am sending information to only one MIDI channel; and to choose that channel, I switch the MIDI channel on the master keyboard itself.
So in the case of the V50, I am actually changing the MIDI channel named "TCh" in the MIDI settings; Tch could stand for Transmitting Channel I suppose!
When doing so, the synth part of the V50 - the sound generators - actually shuts off at once the very moment I am changing the channel. Of course, it is not very nice when several parts are playing, and they all shut up at once. At least, the music keeps on playing with the next NOTE ON messages coming in, but the resulting sound is definitely not very musical.
I think it weird that the sound generator should stop when switching the Tch channel, especially with LOCAL set to Off. I think that maybe, Yamaha engineers where thinking in the context of LOCAL being on, that in the case that a musician switches channels before letting go or some notes, then the NOTE OFF messages would go to the wrong track, and the notes would be stuck. (I haven't seen a feature in the V50 to stop stuck notes, by the way...) This is why I am referring in the title of this message to a possible feature.
Now, my ROM version is 1.1. I understand that the latest ROM is 1.3. And so, naturally, I am wondering whether this latest ROM features the same bug/feature, or not.
I am referring to the firmware as "ROM", but I have no actual idea whether it is an EPROM or a "mask ROM"; and whether it is socketed or soldered to the board; since I haven't tried opening my V50 yet.
Does anybody know how V1.3 behaves with regard to stopping all notes of the sound engine?
Thank you for reading,
Yann
|
Re: V50 bug (or feature?) in ROM V1.1
Hello,?
Is it possible a midi message filtering? You can filter the data that feed the V50 and exclude other than note, aftertouch, modulation wheel .
Just a suggestion. AFAIK the v50 secuencer accepts external control, and that may mean the appearance of reset messages when receiving sequencer stop midi message.
Wish it helps
Cheers JJ
El mié, 9 nov 2022 17:26, Yann Kieffer < emilito7@...> escribió: Hello,
I am the happy, and quite recent, owner of a Yamaha V50.
I bought it from the first-hand owner, and the instrument is in near-perfect condition.
I am using it to create live music, in tandem with an external sequencer - a Squarp Pyramid, to be precise - but my issue should definitely be visible with other sequencers as well!
So it is a DAW-less setup, and I will try to describe it now.
I am using only the V50 and the sequencer, no other piece of gear. The V50 is acting as "master keyboard", meaning that I set "LOCAL" to "Off" in the MIDI settings, and use the keyboard of the V50 to send the note informations to the sequencer. Then the sequencer feeds back the V50 with the note information (both simultaneous, and recorded), and the V50 acts as a multi-timbral instrument, playing different MIDI tracks simultaneously. Of course, I am connecting them by MIDI DIN cables, one cable for each direction.
Now to my particular issue with this setup.
There are several ways to use the Pyramid sequencer; the way I am using it is by recording different phrases into tracks by changing the track on the master keyboard. I am not touching the sequencer; the sequencer is recording on all tracks simultaneously, and I actually use a footswitch to activate/deactivate recording. Although the sequencer is listening to the 16 MIDI channels, I am sending information to only one MIDI channel; and to choose that channel, I switch the MIDI channel on the master keyboard itself.
So in the case of the V50, I am actually changing the MIDI channel named "TCh" in the MIDI settings; Tch could stand for Transmitting Channel I suppose!
When doing so, the synth part of the V50 - the sound generators - actually shuts off at once the very moment I am changing the channel. Of course, it is not very nice when several parts are playing, and they all shut up at once. At least, the music keeps on playing with the next NOTE ON messages coming in, but the resulting sound is definitely not very musical.
I think it weird that the sound generator should stop when switching the Tch channel, especially with LOCAL set to Off. I think that maybe, Yamaha engineers where thinking in the context of LOCAL being on, that in the case that a musician switches channels before letting go or some notes, then the NOTE OFF messages would go to the wrong track, and the notes would be stuck. (I haven't seen a feature in the V50 to stop stuck notes, by the way...) This is why I am referring in the title of this message to a possible feature.
Now, my ROM version is 1.1. I understand that the latest ROM is 1.3. And so, naturally, I am wondering whether this latest ROM features the same bug/feature, or not.
I am referring to the firmware as "ROM", but I have no actual idea whether it is an EPROM or a "mask ROM"; and whether it is socketed or soldered to the board; since I haven't tried opening my V50 yet.
Does anybody know how V1.3 behaves with regard to stopping all notes of the sound engine?
Thank you for reading,
Yann
|
V50 bug (or feature?) in ROM V1.1
Hello,
I am the happy, and quite recent, owner of a Yamaha V50.
I bought it from the first-hand owner, and the instrument is in near-perfect condition.
I am using it to create live music, in tandem with an external sequencer - a Squarp Pyramid, to be precise - but my issue should definitely be visible with other sequencers as well!
So it is a DAW-less setup, and I will try to describe it now.
I am using only the V50 and the sequencer, no other piece of gear. The V50 is acting as "master keyboard", meaning that I set "LOCAL" to "Off" in the MIDI settings, and use the keyboard of the V50 to send the note informations to the sequencer. Then the sequencer feeds back the V50 with the note information (both simultaneous, and recorded), and the V50 acts as a multi-timbral instrument, playing different MIDI tracks simultaneously. Of course, I am connecting them by MIDI DIN cables, one cable for each direction.
Now to my particular issue with this setup.
There are several ways to use the Pyramid sequencer; the way I am using it is by recording different phrases into tracks by changing the track on the master keyboard. I am not touching the sequencer; the sequencer is recording on all tracks simultaneously, and I actually use a footswitch to activate/deactivate recording. Although the sequencer is listening to the 16 MIDI channels, I am sending information to only one MIDI channel; and to choose that channel, I switch the MIDI channel on the master keyboard itself.
So in the case of the V50, I am actually changing the MIDI channel named "TCh" in the MIDI settings; Tch could stand for Transmitting Channel I suppose!
When doing so, the synth part of the V50 - the sound generators - actually shuts off at once the very moment I am changing the channel. Of course, it is not very nice when several parts are playing, and they all shut up at once. At least, the music keeps on playing with the next NOTE ON messages coming in, but the resulting sound is definitely not very musical.
I think it weird that the sound generator should stop when switching the Tch channel, especially with LOCAL set to Off. I think that maybe, Yamaha engineers where thinking in the context of LOCAL being on, that in the case that a musician switches channels before letting go or some notes, then the NOTE OFF messages would go to the wrong track, and the notes would be stuck. (I haven't seen a feature in the V50 to stop stuck notes, by the way...) This is why I am referring in the title of this message to a possible feature.
Now, my ROM version is 1.1. I understand that the latest ROM is 1.3. And so, naturally, I am wondering whether this latest ROM features the same bug/feature, or not.
I am referring to the firmware as "ROM", but I have no actual idea whether it is an EPROM or a "mask ROM"; and whether it is socketed or soldered to the board; since I haven't tried opening my V50 yet.
Does anybody know how V1.3 behaves with regard to stopping all notes of the sound engine?
Thank you for reading,
Yann
|
Re: Controller assignment in DX7 family
From my notes the PLG150DX and DX200 have slightly different sysex prefixed by F0 43 nn 62.?
But my 6-operator FM programs were all written to handle individual cases. For bulk conversion, Martin Tarenskeen's DXconvert suite may be better.
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Re: Controller assignment in DX7 family
How can I write about a topic this big when I have never had a 6-operator DX/TX to test it.
It looks to me that dx7chan.zip changes the MIDI channel for a DX7 Mark I VCED and what seems to be the associated function parameters.
But both this and dx7param.zip (which restricts itself to voice A in the equivalent DX7II ACED or TX7 performance) have problems with?multi-timbral synths like DX7II orTX802 which have 2 or more VCED/ACED pairs.
A friend had a PLG150DX which from the manual had 912 preset sounds using General MIDI Bank Select, but what did it have for the 64 user sounds??
And whither the DX200?
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Re: Request for PLG150-DX files from the old Yahoo Group
These are all great, thank you very much. There might not have been any actual PLG service manuals; it was vague from the original post what exactly he had, he may have been describing these service manuals that have the PLG card schematics included. So, if there were any other Yamaha synths that came with PLG cards, we might discover more schematics.
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Re: Request for PLG150-DX files from the old Yahoo Group
I've gone through all the files I have from the various Yamaha/DX groups I was part of (which I fully archived, which shouldn't have missed anything), but I'm not seeing any PLG card service manuals. The best I can do for you is a Yamaha DX200 service manual, which does include a diagram of the PLG-150DX card, like the AN200 manual linked to earlier (I've attached a copy of that from my files as well).
Thanks,
Max
Hi,
I am searching for the service manuals for the Yamaha PLG expansion cards. It appears that this group used to have them back on Yahoo, and I have found reference to them here:?
However, searching through the files that are currently available, I don't seem to see any of them. It appears they have not been uploaded yet.
Could someone please re-upload these files? According to the date of the post, they were uploaded prior to October 28, 2008.
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Re: Request for PLG150-DX files from the old Yahoo Group
Please find my collection of PLG150DX items in a 7z file on wetransfer ...
Regards,
Paul
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On 11-Jun-22 03:26, Gesine wrote:
Try also
which has a zillion manuals including service manuals --
and if you have manuals, you can upload them to ManualsLibrary to share with other people --
When groups moved from the disintegrating-yahoo-groups to groups.io, Mark Fletcher, who designed the original yahoo groups (before it was even yahoo) and who designed and runs groups.io, did his best to transfer the archived messages and as much of the files as could be gotten -- but a lot of file stuff in many groups couldn't be copied, yahoo-groups was falling apart too much.
And corollary, if find stuff, could put in the Files section here!
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José Juan