Hi All... On a different topic..... assistance needed.....
Looking for some insight and assistance here.? I picked up a Yamaha wireless bluetooth MD-BT01 Bluetooth Wireless MIDI Interface to use with my DX7.? My understanding is that the device can/could be used with an instrument that has midi in and out sockets.? It connects very easily of course, the IN to the midi IN and the OUT to the midi out on the keyboard.? The purpose of this was to see if I could modify some of the DX7 sounds with my Ipad.? I was able to download an app which allows the Ipad to recognize the Bluetooth device, but from there I'm lost.? Is there a particular midi channel on the keyboard that I need to use?? Or is this an exercise in futility in that the DX7 is just too old to be able to use this technology.....?
Thanks to all for your assistance
Regards, ?
-----Original Message-----
From: Florian Heer <yamahadx@...>
To: [email protected]; the_crimson_thunder@...
Sent: Tue, May 26, 2020 10:34 am
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] Chorus chip on DX27s / PCB of DX100/DX27?
Hi Michael,
On 26/05/2020 15:54, Michael Whocares wrote:
> Does this help?
thanks a lot, that is great. But from a first check, the DX21 firmware and that of the DX100 are completely different. In the DX100 the rom starts with code and ends with the voices, in the DX21 it's the other way round. Also the DX100 uses only 43 bytes per voice, so no simple direct comparison between those two. And that although they use the same MPU (HD63B03XP in DX21 and HD6303XP in DX27S),only difference is the speed of the processors. Okay, now I have a reason to desolder the rom from my DX27s and read that out... Unless someone has the firmware of the DX27s? Cheers, Florian
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Re: Chorus chip on DX27s / PCB of DX100/DX27?
Hi Michael, On 26/05/2020 15:54, Michael Whocares wrote: Does this help? thanks a lot, that is great. But from a first check, the DX21 firmware and that of the DX100 are completely different. In the DX100 the rom starts with code and ends with the voices, in the DX21 it's the other way round. Also the DX100 uses only 43 bytes per voice, so no simple direct comparison between those two. And that although they use the same MPU (HD63B03XP in DX21 and HD6303XP in DX27S),only difference is the speed of the processors. Okay, now I have a reason to desolder the rom from my DX27s and read that out... Unless someone has the firmware of the DX27s? Cheers, Florian
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Re: Chorus chip on DX27s / PCB of DX100/DX27?
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Re: Chorus chip on DX27s / PCB of DX100/DX27?
On 26/05/2020 14:40, Martin Tarenskeen wrote: On Tue, 26 May 2020, Florian Heer wrote:
According to the documentation, a DX27 will not dump a voice as chorus=on. I guess (but I haven't read out the ROM) that the presets are all the same, but DX27/100 will only dump them according to their capabilities. That would be strange. It wouldn't hurt if the Chorus=On bit would be set in the sysex data, even for a DX27/DX100 that doesn't have a chorus effect. The bit would simply be ignored. I would have thought the same, until I saw that note in the DX27 manual. But for a dump the data needs to be processed anyway. At least in the DX21 firmware each voice only uses 49 bytes. Unfortunately I don't have a DX27/100 rom for comparison. Cheers, Florian
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Re: Chorus chip on DX27s / PCB of DX100/DX27?
On Tue, 26 May 2020, Florian Heer wrote: According to the documentation, a DX27 will not dump a voice as chorus=on. I guess (but I haven't read out the ROM) that the presets are all the same, but DX27/100 will only dump them according to their capabilities. That would be strange. It wouldn't hurt if the Chorus=On bit would be set in the sysex data, even for a DX27/DX100 that doesn't have a chorus effect. The bit would simply be ignored. -- MT
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Re: Chorus chip on DX27s / PCB of DX100/DX27?
On 26/05/2020 10:17, Martin Tarenskeen
wrote:
Interesting. I knew the DX21 has a simple Chorus effect, but I
didn't realize the (rare) DX27S also has a Chorus effect, unlike
the DX27 and DX100.
Rare? Then I must have been lucky, got it for very little money.
It also has a port for a foot volume controller.
I
have SysEx dumps from the 8x24=192 factory presets in the
DX27/DX100 ROM, I have analysed them, and none of them have the
CHORUS effect bit enabled in the VCED/VMEM data. I have also
analyzed the 4x32=128 factory presets, and 14 of them have CHORUS
switched on in the preset factory data:
Intruiging. I have just checked it on my DX27s, and at least
BellsBells
Cheeky
have the chorus set to "on".
So
now I am wondering: does the DX27S have the exact same factory ROM
presets as the DX100 and DX27, without CHORUS effect applied by
default to any of the presets? Or do some presets have this Chorus
effect switched on by default to use the DX27S chorus effect?
According to the documentation, a DX27 will not dump a voice as
chorus=on. I guess (but I haven't read out the ROM) that the
presets are all the same, but DX27/100 will only dump them
according to their capabilities. But that is just from the
standpoint that it would be quite an unnecessary effort to create
different voice roms.
Cheers, Florian
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Re: Chorus chip on DX27s / PCB of DX100/DX27?
On Mon, 25 May 2020, Florian Heer wrote: I'm trying to figure a bit out about the DX27s. As with the DX21 it has chorus, but then again, the DX27 and the DX100 do not, even though they share the same main PCB. Interesting. I knew the DX21 has a simple Chorus effect, but I didn't realize the (rare) DX27S also has a Chorus effect, unlike the DX27 and DX100. I have SysEx dumps from the 8x24=192 factory presets in the DX27/DX100 ROM, I have analysed them, and none of them have the CHORUS effect bit enabled in the VCED/VMEM data. I have also analyzed the 4x32=128 factory presets, and 14 of them have CHORUS switched on in the preset factory data: BellsBells Cheeky Clear Clav Easy Clav Easy Synth Fuzz Clav Good Vibes PercoPiano PickPluck PowerBrass Richstring Squeezebox Templegong Tube Bells So now I am wondering: does the DX27S have the exact same factory ROM presets as the DX100 and DX27, without CHORUS effect applied by default to any of the presets? Or do some presets have this Chorus effect switched on by default to use the DX27S chorus effect? -- MT
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Re: Chorus chip on DX27s / PCB of DX100/DX27?
Hi Andy,
thanks for the explanation. I was roughly aware how a BBD could
be used for a chorus effect, I was mainly surprised that the DX27s
would use a different chip than the DX21, both from the same year.
But I'm starting to think that the engineering team of the DX27s
and that of the DX21 were disjunct groups anyway, particularly
since the DX21 has a switch mode power supply and the DX27s a good
old transformer.
But my question was primarily geared towards the differences of
the 27/100 to the 27s. I would really like to know, if IC12/13
(and related components) are populated in a DX27/100 board.
Cheers, Florian
On 25/05/2020 22:49, AndyHornBlower via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
A chorus circuit like that is based around a BBD chip and a clock
generator.? In this case, MN3204 is the BBD and MN3102 provides
the clock.? There also one or two fixed filters, made with op amps
or transistors.
It seems the MN3207 + MN3102 combination is more common, which was
used in the original Boss CE-1 design, but they used transistors
for the rest of the circuit, which makes it harder to follow:
I found a page with the combination you have, but the example
schematic has been spoiled by photobucket.? If you save the image,
or use View Imager in Firefox, you can see it without their
banner, but you have to squint to make much out:
Maybe you can see a more detailed version if you register and log
in.? The datasheets for the chips should have example circuits
too.
- Andy
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Re: Chorus chip on DX27s / PCB of DX100/DX27?
A chorus circuit like that is based around a BBD chip and a clock generator.? In this case, MN3204 is the BBD and MN3102 provides the clock.? There also one or two fixed filters, made with op amps or transistors.
It seems the MN3207 + MN3102 combination is more common, which was used in the original Boss CE-1 design, but they used transistors for the rest of the circuit, which makes it harder to follow:
I found a page with the combination you have, but the example schematic has been spoiled by photobucket.? If you save the image, or use View Imager in Firefox, you can see it without their banner, but you have to squint to make much out:
Maybe you can see a more detailed version if you register and log in.? The datasheets for the chips should have example circuits too.
- Andy
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Chorus chip on DX27s / PCB of DX100/DX27?
I'm trying to figure a bit out about the DX27s. As with the DX21
it has chorus, but then again, the DX27 and the DX100 do not, even
though they share the same main PCB.
According to
the DX21 uses a Panasonic MN 3209 as a chorus. But on my DX27s I
could only find a MN 3204, which also is a BBD, but with 512
stages (instead of 256 on the MN 3209).
That would mean the chorus should be slightly different - fine
for me.
Unfortunately I was not able to find good images of a PCB of DX27
or DX100, now I really wonder if IC 12 is populated on a DX27/100.
I do have a PDF here called "DX27 - DX100 Overall Circuit
Diagram", but according to that, IC 12 is a memory chip... But the
chip numbers in that diagram have nothing to do with the silk
screen numbers on the PCB anyway.
Does anyone have a good picture of the PCB with the area around
IC 12/13?
Cheers, Florian
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Re: DX21 MIDI: can I request Operator Enable?
Hi Martin,
I suspected as much, but thanks for confirming my suspicion. My
biggest problem was simply that I wondered if I was just
not able to understand something there.
So far my work-around for muted operators had also been the
Output Level, but mainly because I was too lazy to do bit-setting
:-).
Cheers, Florian
On 15/03/2020 20:39, Martin Tarenskeen
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Operator On/Off for the DX21 can be changed with a parameter
change sysex message, but is not stored with the VCED and VMEM
data. You cannot "read" this with a SysEx request message.
To ensure the on/off status for each operator is in sync with the
current state of your DX21 editbuffer, you could set all operators
to "On" when your editor starts. If you really want to store a
patch with one or more operators muted permanently, you can set
Operator Output Level=0 for de-selected operators.
Hope that helps,
MT
Verzonden vanaf mijn Huawei mobiele telefoon
-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------
Onderwerp: [YamahaDX] DX21 MIDI: can I request Operator Enable?
Van: Florian Heer
Aan: [email protected]
Cc:
I'm
playing a round with creating my own MIDI-Editor for - among
others
- the DX21.
As I look through the manual, it appears that the DX21
(YS200 is no
difference...) only transmits the firs 93 bytes (0-92) of
the voice
parameters. But Operator Enable and Operator Select are
parameters 93 /
94. After a lot of digging, I was not able to find anything
how to get
these parameters from the synth. So I would be flying blind
if I set
these parameters from my program.
Other voice editors seem to suffer the same issue, and when
I read a
voice from the DX21 with them and store it back, operator
combinations
can be shot. First I thought, these other editors are kinda
crappy here,
but if parameter 93 cannot actually be read, that would
explain it.
Is there a way to read those, or is my assumption correct
that setting
Operator Enable is a stab in the dark?
Cheers, Florian
|
Re: DX21 MIDI: can I request Operator Enable?
Operator On/Off for the DX21 can be changed with a parameter change sysex message, but is not stored with the VCED and VMEM data. You cannot "read" this with a SysEx request message. To ensure the on/off status for each operator is in sync with the current state of your DX21 editbuffer, you could set all operators to "On" when your editor starts. If you really want to store a patch with one or more operators muted permanently, you can set Operator Output Level=0 for de-selected operators. Hope that helps, MT Verzonden vanaf mijn Huawei mobiele telefoon -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht -------- Onderwerp: [YamahaDX] DX21 MIDI: can I request Operator Enable? Van: Florian Heer Aan: [email protected]Cc:
I'm playing a round with creating my own MIDI-Editor for - among others
- the DX21.
As I look through the manual, it appears that the DX21 (YS200 is no
difference...) only transmits the firs 93 bytes (0-92) of the voice
parameters. But Operator Enable and Operator Select are parameters 93 /
94. After a lot of digging, I was not able to find anything how to get
these parameters from the synth. So I would be flying blind if I set
these parameters from my program.
Other voice editors seem to suffer the same issue, and when I read a
voice from the DX21 with them and store it back, operator combinations
can be shot. First I thought, these other editors are kinda crappy here,
but if parameter 93 cannot actually be read, that would explain it.
Is there a way to read those, or is my assumption correct that setting
Operator Enable is a stab in the dark?
Cheers, Florian
|
DX21 MIDI: can I request Operator Enable?
I'm playing a round with creating my own MIDI-Editor for - among others - the DX21.
As I look through the manual, it appears that the DX21 (YS200 is no difference...) only transmits the firs 93 bytes (0-92) of the voice parameters. But Operator Enable and Operator Select are parameters 93 / 94. After a lot of digging, I was not able to find anything how to get these parameters from the synth. So I would be flying blind if I set these parameters from my program.
Other voice editors seem to suffer the same issue, and when I read a voice from the DX21 with them and store it back, operator combinations can be shot. First I thought, these other editors are kinda crappy here, but if parameter 93 cannot actually be read, that would explain it.
Is there a way to read those, or is my assumption correct that setting Operator Enable is a stab in the dark?
Cheers, Florian
|
They need a recap for sure.? and the batteries checked.
one of my modules doesn;t light up anymore but makes sound.? it's def in line to go to the tech
NEW ALLIANCE EAST!!!!
--------------------------------------
New Alliance East?- Mastering
New Alliance East?-?Facebook
X :::: B :::: S
On Thursday, February 20, 2020, 01:17:00 PM EST, Joe Prisco via Groups.Io <ratsagogo@...> wrote:
The TX81Z is a rack version of Yamaha DX11
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_TX81Z
The TX816 is? a rack unit that could take up to eight TF1 modules. A TF1 module is basically a DX7 condensed down to a single circuit board with almost no front panel controls.
http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/tx816.php
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The TX81Z is a rack version of Yamaha DX11
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_TX81Z
The TX816 is? a rack unit that could take up to eight TF1 modules. A TF1 module is basically a DX7 condensed down to a single circuit board with almost no front panel controls.
http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/tx816.php
|
Not even close!
The TX816 is a fully-loaded version of the TX8xx rack-mount synth.?
It consists of a rack base and power supply, along with 1-8 TF1
sound modules.? From a distance, it looks something like an
industrial server.? Each TF1 module provides a full DX7's
functionality, with16 voices of polyphony.? With all 8 modules, you
basically have 8 DX7s tied together, with 128 voices of polyphony;
along with 8-way multitimbral capability.
The TX802 is similar in functionality, but with WAY less polyphony.
Regards,
-BW
Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions.com?
bw@...
978.597.7008
On 2/19/2020 11:38 PM, Mike wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have a TX81Z are they the same thing?
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of LarryS
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 4:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX816 getting older
Heh,heh... I might sell it, but it's obviously the centerpiece of my FM Suite.
The TX816 runs into a DMP11 mixer (that's the 4U motorized fader unit). Play that with a KX-88 that I still love. Or ::clears throat:: my candy apple red KX-1 (not kx-5). Or even my WX-7 which I'm not obsessed with, so that means I'm not super good at it, either.
If I sold all that, it would leave me with a meager and dwindling stable of two DX7 and two TX-802 and a single TX7.
But I could be persuaded I suppose.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Bernstein [mailto:jeremy.d.bernstein@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 3:50 PM
To: [email protected]; vision1@...
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX816 getting older
Aha, thanks.
It's not really comparable, but I had a TX802 which had a slow-motion startup. Replacing the (mostly empty) electrolytics on the PS board solved the problem, so it's worth a shot.
And don't sell it, unless, well, unless it's to me. :-)
jb
Am 13.02.2020 um 22:47 schrieb LarryS <vision1@...>:
So sorry. Shoulda mentioned that straight off.
Yes, I did a full 8X battery re-install.
That was my first thinking, too.
Didn’t clear it up.
Again, sorry for being sloppy on this.
L.
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Bernstein via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:44 AM
To: [email protected]; vision1@...
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX816 getting older
Hi,
Do they display an error code at startup? Mine did this when I got it, the backup batteries needed replacement (probably since 15 years). Do yourself a favor, do all 8 and install sockets to make the next time around simpler...
jb
LarryS <vision1@...> schrieb am Do., 13. Feb. 2020, 18:40:
It still works.
Mostly.
Lately, I’ve noticed two of the TF-1 modules that don’t power up the same way everyone else does. Nor do they have that reassuring click of the relay.
BUT, when you hit the function button up front, they join right in with the same display.
Is this a relay thing? or one of the aging electrolytics nearby?
Because unlike other synths, this thing is really hard to service on the bench, being detached from its host power and all. That, and schematics seem impossible to find.
I’m secretly considering selling it, too. But that comes and goes. I hate to break up the ensemble of indulgent spending.
:-)
L.
|
I have a TX81Z are they the same thing?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of LarryS Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 4:08 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX816 getting older Heh,heh... I might sell it, but it's obviously the centerpiece of my FM Suite. The TX816 runs into a DMP11 mixer (that's the 4U motorized fader unit). Play that with a KX-88 that I still love. Or ::clears throat:: my candy apple red KX-1 (not kx-5). Or even my WX-7 which I'm not obsessed with, so that means I'm not super good at it, either. If I sold all that, it would leave me with a meager and dwindling stable of two DX7 and two TX-802 and a single TX7. But I could be persuaded I suppose. -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Bernstein [mailto:jeremy.d.bernstein@...] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 3:50 PM To: [email protected]; vision1@... Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX816 getting older Aha, thanks. It's not really comparable, but I had a TX802 which had a slow-motion startup. Replacing the (mostly empty) electrolytics on the PS board solved the problem, so it's worth a shot. And don't sell it, unless, well, unless it's to me. :-) jb Am 13.02.2020 um 22:47 schrieb LarryS <vision1@...>:
So sorry. Shoulda mentioned that straight off.
Yes, I did a full 8X battery re-install.
That was my first thinking, too.
Didn’t clear it up.
Again, sorry for being sloppy on this.
L.
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Bernstein via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:44 AM
To: [email protected]; vision1@...
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX816 getting older
Hi,
Do they display an error code at startup? Mine did this when I got it, the backup batteries needed replacement (probably since 15 years). Do yourself a favor, do all 8 and install sockets to make the next time around simpler...
jb
LarryS <vision1@...> schrieb am Do., 13. Feb. 2020, 18:40:
It still works.
Mostly.
Lately, I’ve noticed two of the TF-1 modules that don’t power up the same way everyone else does. Nor do they have that reassuring click of the relay.
BUT, when you hit the function button up front, they join right in with the same display.
Is this a relay thing? or one of the aging electrolytics nearby?
Because unlike other synths, this thing is really hard to service on the bench, being detached from its host power and all. That, and schematics seem impossible to find.
I’m secretly considering selling it, too. But that comes and goes. I hate to break up the ensemble of indulgent spending.
:-)
L.
|
I boast 3xTx816. I have replaced all the batteries with battery holders. Easy job.
i second the sentiment >not< to sell the tx816. It is a desert island synth for me hahaha
|
Aha, thanks.
It's not really comparable, but I had a TX802 which had a slow-motion startup. Replacing the (mostly empty) electrolytics on the PS board solved the problem, so it's worth a shot.
And don't sell it, unless, well, unless it's to me. :-)
jb
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Am 13.02.2020 um 22:47 schrieb LarryS <vision1@...>:
So sorry. Shoulda mentioned that straight off.
Yes, I did a full 8X battery re-install.
That was my first thinking, too.
Didn’t clear it up.
Again, sorry for being sloppy on this.
L.
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeremy Bernstein via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:44 AM
To: [email protected]; vision1@...
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] TX816 getting older
Hi,
Do they display an error code at startup? Mine did this when I got it, the backup batteries needed replacement (probably since 15 years). Do yourself a favor, do all 8 and install sockets to make the next time around simpler...
jb
LarryS <vision1@...> schrieb am Do., 13. Feb. 2020, 18:40:
It still works.
Mostly.
Lately, I’ve noticed two of the TF-1 modules that don’t power up the same way everyone else does. Nor do they have that reassuring click of the relay.
BUT, when you hit the function button up front, they join right in with the same display.
Is this a relay thing? or one of the aging electrolytics nearby?
Because unlike other synths, this thing is really hard to service on the bench, being detached from its host power and all. That, and schematics seem impossible to find.
I’m secretly considering selling it, too. But that comes and goes. I hate to break up the ensemble of indulgent spending.
:-)
L.
|
Then it could be something else. I haven't check the TF1 schematic, but it should be similar to the DX7, and it reminds me an issue I had with it.
On the DX7, right after power on, the /RESET signal must be kept low for 100 ms, time for CPU to initialize. This signal is driven by 2 tantalum capacitors, which can fail with time. In my case, the /RESET signal was rising up after only 40 ms.
I replaced both tantalums (main board), and the issue went off.
Fran?ois
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Michael Whocares
AndyHornBlower
alesisfusion8hd