Re: Issue receiving sysex dump from DX7

#20429

开云体育

Hi Jeremy,

On 17/11/2019 21:11, Jeremy Bernstein via Groups.Io wrote:

0xF2 could be Song Position Pointer, but clearly that data is looking a little odd. Is your DX7 E!-upgraded or similar? I wonder if it's sending some (corrupt) sequencer-related info.

No, it's absolutely vanilla, no expansion boards, all chips are original. So the Song Pointer doesn't make any sense. The superfluous F2 is only in a part of the sysex, in other places it's B0 and other dirt as well, nothing that makes sense here.

Cheers, Florian

Re: Issue receiving sysex dump from DX7

#20428

Hi Florian(s),

0xF2 could be Song Position Pointer, but clearly that data is looking a little odd. Is your DX7 E!-upgraded or similar? I wonder if it's sending some (corrupt) sequencer-related info.

It's odd that the hardware appears to be working in all other respects.

jb

Show quoted text

Am 17.11.2019 um 20:28 schrieb Florian Anwander <fanwander@...>:

Hi Florian

1.) no-name USB-MIDI have only one feature: they increase the income of some chinese factory manager. They don't provide the feature to transfer MIDI (at least they reach the end of their abilities with sysex). So: put it to the dumpster.

2.) what software do you use? for receiving / analysing / sending the sysex data?

Regards
Florian (too ;-) )

signature.asc

Re: Issue receiving sysex dump from DX7

#20427

开云体育

Hi Florian (it's like talking to myself, just better),

On 17/11/2019 20:28, Florian Anwander wrote:

1.) no-name USB-MIDI have only one feature: they increase the income of some chinese factory manager. They don't provide the feature to transfer MIDI (at least they reach the end of their abilities with sysex). So: put it to the dumpster.

Yeah, well... most of the time that one does its job, quite some programming work with a YS200 showed no issues (when relayed through the MOTU), also sending and receiving full dumps to/from an M1 worked out. Also I already have filled their pockets, as long as there is no pressing need, I won't fill the garbage can with it . Anyway, that's why I used the FCA1616 in parallel to test. And also the cheap cable uses class drivers, and the Behringer has its own, different drivers.

2.) what software do you use? for receiving / analysing / sending the sysex data?

Usually / mainly something I have written myself using the WebMidiApi in Chrome. Also DX Manager 5 - I installed that to verify my suspicions, no experience with that, except that I successfully tested if it could talk to my TX7 - and also MIDI-Ox, SoundDiver and "MIDI Sysex file transfer utility". But except for the first, I'm no expert in any of these. I only know that with the cheap USB cable, I can't send bigger sysex with MIDI-Ox (that's why I installed the "MIDI Sysex file transfer utility").

I would usually believe that my own code would be the best source of truth for me, as I know what happens there. But then again, I don't know if the web midi api might already filter out stuff that it doesn't understand, and also of course I don't know if the Windows drivers might hide 'dirty' data.

I have not tried using Linux or a Mac yet - if there is a realistic chance that Windows is to blame, I'll give it shot.

Cheers, Florian

Re: Issue receiving sysex dump from DX7

#20426

Hi Florian

1.) no-name USB-MIDI have only one feature: they increase the income of some chinese factory manager. They don't provide the feature to transfer MIDI (at least they reach the end of their abilities with sysex). So: put it to the dumpster.

2.) what software do you use? for receiving / analysing / sending the sysex data?

Regards
Florian (too ;-) )

Issue receiving sysex dump from DX7

#20425

Hi there and thanks for accepting me into this group.

As a quick introduction of myself, I'm from Germany, I have a number of 80s and 90s Yamaha synths, a nice bit of other equipment and some, albeit limited, knowledge in electronics (more of a software developer).

I recently bought a DX 7 Mk 1 - according to the chips' timestamp it's probably built in fall 1983. I have an issue with it where I am a bit stuck.
When I try to dump the internal memory, no MIDI interface recognizes any data, but something is being sent.

The setup I have for testing:
DX7 Mk 1 - MIDI out to a MOTU MIDI Express
No-Name USB-MIDI converter connected to the MOTU
Behringer FCA1616 connected to the MOTU

Process for dumping the memory (if I understood the manual correctly, there should not be an issue there):
Switch on DX7 ... :-)
FUNCTION - 8 (MIDI Channel 1) - 8 - YES (Sysinfo avail) - 8 - YES

Then I can see that the MOTU receives and relays something (the appropriate LEDs are all on for a time). I can see on both MIDI interfaces (no-name cable and FCA1616) that something is coming in, BUT no software on a PC (including DX Manager) sees any usable data.
It's the same if I plug the interfaces directly into the DX7 (the MOTU helps sometimes, my no-name cable for example has issues talking to a CS1x directly, but all is fine if the MOTU relays the data).

The DX7 can receive sysex, so I can send patches to it. Controller messages come out of the DX7. When dumping the sysex, the interfaces recognize the controller message for the "+1 YES", but after that nothing.

Another thing that makes me wonder if there is an issue with my DX7 is: when I switch it on, the MOTU registers a repeating signal coming in, but it is not relaying that (maybe the incoming is not strong enough?), but after having tried to dump sysex, this quick repeating signal is relayed (output LEDs start flickering).

And yet another potential hint: when the MOTU relays incoming signals back to the DX7, I actually see some data which looks very much like a sysex dump, but only the FCA1616 recognizes this f**ed up data stream, a small snippet of the data is:
F2 48 45
F2 41 56
F2 59 4D F2 45 54 F2 4C 32 F2 35 40
If you remove the "F2"s, you get the name of one of the stored voices "HEAVYMETAL25"

So, something somehow is coming.

Is it an issue you have seen? My only ideas are that either the sending rate is somehow wrong or the electrical level is not "strong enough", and the factual feedback when the MOTU sends all back to the DX7 barely raises the level above recognition? I mean, I'm purely guessing here, I also suspected the firmware, but according to the ability to dump a sysex is not known to be a problem of a firmware.

Any sensible idea, anything I could try, would be most welcome.

Maybe one more piece of potentially relevant info: when I pluck my TX7 into the same cables, all is well.

In the end this is for me more of a purist problem, as I would like to have my synthesizers all work to spec. I'm not planning on programming voices on the DX7 itself, I use software editors for that, and as I can send the patches over... Anyway, I don't like broken hardware :-)

Cheers, Florian

Re: Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

Greg

#20424

I suspect that the DX1 would keep the values programmed into the current performance memory (Performance Edit Buffer or PCED) if you select only a voice.? This way the performance memory needs to be reprogrammed only once - when you turn the DX1 on - rather than every time you select a different voice. If you have a MIDI interface between the DX1 and a PC or Mac, you can use a DX1 menu option (I am not sure which) to bulk dump the current performance memory and receive the dump via a general-purpose MIDI program such as MidiOx for PC (). Once this dump is saved as a "system exclusive" (.syx) file, then you can re-send it to the DX1 whenever needed.? I recommend that at least one of your DX1/TX816 should be connected to your PC or Mac via MIDI so you can browse the 10,000+ DX7 voices on the YamahaDX group.

Re: Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

Greg

#20423
Edited

I do not have a DX1 - in fact my only real exposure to the 6-operator FM world is a friend's PLG150DX - but it appears to have, like the DX5 and the TX7, options to select a voice or a performance.? I wonder what happens to the data in the? current performance edit buffer if you select only a voice.

Re: Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

#20422

Hi Greg,

That's a very good analysis that you made. I looked at that setting and it was set to on but it seemed not to make much of a difference.

I do notice that on most sounds that it has the sustain but on very few it doesn't. I'm using only my A/B DX-1 carts as I

don't have any internal sounds on the DX-1 at this time.

I have a? Yamaha TX-816 that I'm going to get all 8 battery replaced on that and while I have a tech do that I'll have him swap out

the battery on the DX-1 and have the cards reseated on the DX-1. I'm hoping that will make some big difference as the DX-1

does appear to be in good shape and most of it's 18 or so years that I had it I have not played it to often as it's been in a long

winters nap in my storage.

Do you by any chance own a DX-1 as well?

On Thursday, November 14, 2019, 7:55:04 PM MST, Greg via Groups.Io <gholwell60@...> wrote:

I looked into my copy of the DX1 manual, DX1E_1.pdf,? and found a section 5-3 Performance memory parameters (Function Control). By selecting Bank 5 (F5), job 3 Sustain Pedal Assign (see Page 37) you can turn the sustain pedal's usage on or off, and I would suspect that if it were off you would get the voice's default for sustain.? You may have to use STORE PERFORMANCE to either a cartridge (which might have to be specially formatted to take performance data as well as voice data) or a MIDI dump.

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sustain.jpg

Re: Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

Greg

#20421

I looked into my copy of the DX1 manual, DX1E_1.pdf,? and found a section 5-3 Performance memory parameters (Function Control). By selecting Bank 5 (F5), job 3 Sustain Pedal Assign (see Page 37) you can turn the sustain pedal's usage on or off, and I would suspect that if it were off you would get the voice's default for sustain.? You may have to use STORE PERFORMANCE to either a cartridge (which might have to be specially formatted to take performance data as well as voice data) or a MIDI dump.

Re: MIDI interface for old PowerBook?

#20420

开云体育

Thanks for all the replies to my original request for advice. I was going to buy a Roland UM-One, a simple USB to MIDI cable, but the store was out of stock. I ended up getting the mystery brand box from Amazon, which is a 4 In/4 Out box which is supposed to do some routing and MIDI merge, as well as simple In and Out. I plugged it in, and the Powerbook saw it immediately. It works for the simple In and Out, I haven’t had occasion to try any of the routing or merge options.

John

Show quoted text

On Nov 4, 2019, at 11:45 AM, grantpbt <grantbt@...> wrote:
I agree with everything except the "Edit:" at the end. There are some cheapie cables that have a bug and they mess up Sys Ex. I would definitely go the "class drivers" route, most sellers will indicate this on their pages. I have the iConnectivity mio but it's on the pricier side ($40).? I recommend it.

I find the simple cables with "advanced" features also cause issues. I have another one that can be one-in/one-out or two-outs. This has caused problems with some software and isn't worth the hassle.

Source: Have bought too many MIDI adapters, including a couple of the cheapie ones and one def has the bug.? More info -

GB

On 11/4/2019 11:15 AM, Co Da via Groups.Io wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
Midi is supported in USB as a Class driver so any no frills USB Midi cable should work. Especially under Mac OS X.
It's when you start spending a bit more on cables/boxes which support multiple types of interface, is when you usually run into problems. This is because they tend to need specific drivers. That said, the basic Midi functionality will often just work regardless.

Source: used to develop USB drivers.

Edit: You could just get yourself a 5 dollar/euro/quid cable. If it's noisy (as I found some of them are) you can cut the earth at the midi end (The ground loop causes hum with some of these cheap Chinese cables).
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Re: Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

#20419

That's the way to do it!

On Tuesday, November 12, 2019, 11:10:08 a.m. PST, jjflash_ca <maggooster@...> wrote:

I had a battery problem with my DX-7II.?? This was about 10 years ago. Everytime I turned it on I would have to reset everything and reload patches.

Finally got the nerve to open it up and replace the original battery.

The original battery had tabs on it and was soldered to the board. While removing the battery I damaged a tab and left a hole in the motherboard.

oops...? I then decided to get a battery holder. I also decided to wire the battery holder out of the way (you have to remove another circuit board to get to where the battery is mounted).

I also mounted the battery holder on it's own little board, attached to a mounting screw. If/when the battery goes dead, it's a simple pop out and in with a new battery. Batteries and holders are cheap and the fix is simple if you're elegant with a soldering iron.

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Re: Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

#20418

I had a battery problem with my DX-7II.?? This was about 10 years ago. Everytime I turned it on I would have to reset everything and reload patches.

Finally got the nerve to open it up and replace the original battery.

The original battery had tabs on it and was soldered to the board. While removing the battery I damaged a tab and left a hole in the motherboard.

oops...? I then decided to get a battery holder. I also decided to wire the battery holder out of the way (you have to remove another circuit board to get to where the battery is mounted).

I also mounted the battery holder on it's own little board, attached to a mounting screw. If/when the battery goes dead, it's a simple pop out and in with a new battery. Batteries and holders are cheap and the fix is simple if you're elegant with a soldering iron.

Re: Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

#20417

What does "calibrating" mean for digital synths like the DX family?
What can be adjusted?

TO ALL MEMBERS of YamahaDX (2nd)

#20416

开云体育

I don't say much, but it's an honor to find out and 'meet' the good soul who created and maintains this group.

Congrats and thank you (and your skilled helper-members) for completing this giant task that you have achieved, and seeing to it that will continue to thrive!

Catch ya later. ?Bye?for now.

Dan Fiebiger

Portland Oregon, USA

Re: TO ALL MEMBERS of YamahaDX (1st)

#20415

Hi all !

I wanted to thank everybody who chipped in wrt the costs of the migration from Yahoo to Groups.io !
It's been a really heartwarming and rewarding experience of the kind of people here in this group.
I would have gone forward regardless but I'm impressed and grateful with all the help I got doing it.

Hopefully we can get by next year with the free version of this site and that it stays up and running for the foreseeable future.
Otherwise we'll cross that bridge when the time comes.

Have a great day and thanx again !
Richard Gelderblom - Group-owner

Re: Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

Greg

#20414

As a person who doesn't have an FM synth to his name apart from the SY22, but has looked at some of the manuals, the TX7 PCED (Performance Edit Buffer) has a similar format to the DX5/DX1 ones - the sysex for the bulk dump starts with F0 43 0n 01 - but IIRC the DX1's poly key aftertouch is not transmitted via MIDI.
As for the sustain, some sustain pedals have an option to reverse polarity.

Re: Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

#20413

开云体育

Greg... I’m sorry to say, but it sounds like you have a 100% completely malfunctioning synth...

?Unfortunately the only solution to fixing your dx1 is to sell it to me at a ridiculously low price!!!

?Haha, kidding! That is one of the only synths these days I truly must after!

?Hope you get it going soon and it inspires you!

Show quoted text

On Nov 9, 2019, at 8:59 AM, greg thurman via Groups.Io <trevon12001@...> wrote:

?

Hi Brian and Gregg,

Thanks for the advise on the battery. I'll check those specs and have the unit open and try to replace with the same battery if possible.
I don't have any internal patches so I don't have to worry about loosing any data. At this time I only use cart A & B.
I may try to search for some sysex type dx-1/dx-5 patches for it in the future if anyone can recommend any really good one's please let me
know. I know these are a beast to program so I'm not sure how active I will be regarding programming it in the future. I'll probably have
a tech locate and check out any sustain switch as I believe I have the technical documents on the DX-1. Other than that I probably need
to figure out calibrating the DX-1. Not sure if anyone as done that on this board with a DX-1. I don't know if it would be the same as
calibrating a DX-5.

Thanks Everyone,

GAT

On Saturday, November 9, 2019, 12:59:39 AM MST, Gregg Sheehan via Groups.Io <auddoc@...> wrote:

Another Gregg here. Before making judgement on a backup battery, it should be measured with the power off. In circuit is ok. It should be within 0.1 V. In other words, it will never be higher than rated, with the power off, but if for example it is a 3.6 VDC battery and reads 3.5VDC it's probably pooched. Panel measurements should probably not be taken to be as accurate, as the method I described.

On Friday, November 8, 2019, 11:20:42 p.m. PST, Brian <briantolson@...> wrote:

?
Hi Greg,
?
Your battery reading that high means it’s had it and needs replacing, you’ll then need to reinstall the patches of course.
?
This will give it a reset and your sustain problem might disappear .. but if not, your sustain switch might be shorted. I presume there’s no sustain pedal plugged in.
?
Brian.
?
?
From: greg thurman via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, 9 November 2019 3:36 PM
To: YamahaDX@groups.io
Subject: [YamahaDX] Yamaha DX-1 Servicing
?
I recently started playing my Yamaha DX-1 as I've had it storage for some year.
Not really sure if it could need calibrating so I was wondering if anyone has any
ideas on how to tune up/calibrate a DX-1. I check the battery and it read from the
keyboard display 4.7 volts. I've never changed it since the 18 or so years that I've
had it. I also noticed that it has this sustain to most patches and I'm trying to figure
out if there's a sustain mode somewhere on the keyboard where I can decrease that.
?
Thanks for Any Suggestions.
?
GAT
?
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Re: Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

#20412

Hi Brian and Gregg,

Thanks for the advise on the battery. I'll check those specs and have the unit open and try to replace with the same battery if possible.

I don't have any internal patches so I don't have to worry about loosing any data. At this time I only use cart A & B.

I may try to search for some sysex type dx-1/dx-5 patches for it in the future if anyone can recommend any really good one's please let me

know. I know these are a beast to program so I'm not sure how active I will be regarding programming it in the future. I'll probably have

a tech locate and check out any sustain switch as I believe I have the technical documents on the DX-1. Other than that I probably need

to figure out calibrating the DX-1. Not sure if anyone as done that on this board with a DX-1. I don't know if it would be the same as

calibrating a DX-5.

Thanks Everyone,

GAT

On Saturday, November 9, 2019, 12:59:39 AM MST, Gregg Sheehan via Groups.Io <auddoc@...> wrote:

Another Gregg here. Before making judgement on a backup battery, it should be measured with the power off. In circuit is ok. It should be within 0.1 V. In other words, it will never be higher than rated, with the power off, but if for example it is a 3.6 VDC battery and reads 3.5VDC it's probably pooched. Panel measurements should probably not be taken to be as accurate, as the method I described.

On Friday, November 8, 2019, 11:20:42 p.m. PST, Brian <briantolson@...> wrote:

?

Hi Greg,

?

Your battery reading that high means it’s had it and needs replacing, you’ll then need to reinstall the patches of course.

?

This will give it a reset and your sustain problem might disappear .. but if not, your sustain switch might be shorted. I presume there’s no sustain pedal plugged in.

?

Brian.

?

Show quoted text

From: greg thurman via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, 9 November 2019 3:36 PM
To: YamahaDX@groups.io
Subject: [YamahaDX] Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

?

I recently started playing my Yamaha DX-1 as I've had it storage for some year.

Not really sure if it could need calibrating so I was wondering if anyone has any

ideas on how to tune up/calibrate a DX-1. I check the battery and it read from the

keyboard display 4.7 volts. I've never changed it since the 18 or so years that I've

had it. I also noticed that it has this sustain to most patches and I'm trying to figure

out if there's a sustain mode somewhere on the keyboard where I can decrease that.

?

Thanks for Any Suggestions.

?

GAT

?

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Re: Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

#20411

Another Gregg here. Before making judgement on a backup battery, it should be measured with the power off. In circuit is ok. It should be within 0.1 V. In other words, it will never be higher than rated, with the power off, but if for example it is a 3.6 VDC battery and reads 3.5VDC it's probably pooched. Panel measurements should probably not be taken to be as accurate, as the method I described.

On Friday, November 8, 2019, 11:20:42 p.m. PST, Brian <briantolson@...> wrote:

?

Hi Greg,

?

Your battery reading that high means it’s had it and needs replacing, you’ll then need to reinstall the patches of course.

?

This will give it a reset and your sustain problem might disappear .. but if not, your sustain switch might be shorted. I presume there’s no sustain pedal plugged in.

?

Brian.

?

Show quoted text

From: greg thurman via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, 9 November 2019 3:36 PM
To: YamahaDX@groups.io
Subject: [YamahaDX] Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

?

I recently started playing my Yamaha DX-1 as I've had it storage for some year.

Not really sure if it could need calibrating so I was wondering if anyone has any

ideas on how to tune up/calibrate a DX-1. I check the battery and it read from the

keyboard display 4.7 volts. I've never changed it since the 18 or so years that I've

had it. I also noticed that it has this sustain to most patches and I'm trying to figure

out if there's a sustain mode somewhere on the keyboard where I can decrease that.

?

Thanks for Any Suggestions.

?

GAT

?

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Re: Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

#20410

开云体育

?

Hi Greg,

?

Your battery reading that high means it’s had it and needs replacing, you’ll then need to reinstall the patches of course.

?

This will give it a reset and your sustain problem might disappear .. but if not, your sustain switch might be shorted. I presume there’s no sustain pedal plugged in.

?

Brian.

?

Show quoted text

From: greg thurman via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, 9 November 2019 3:36 PM
To: YamahaDX@groups.io
Subject: [YamahaDX] Yamaha DX-1 Servicing

?

I recently started playing my Yamaha DX-1 as I've had it storage for some year.

Not really sure if it could need calibrating so I was wondering if anyone has any

ideas on how to tune up/calibrate a DX-1. I check the battery and it read from the

keyboard display 4.7 volts. I've never changed it since the 18 or so years that I've

had it. I also noticed that it has this sustain to most patches and I'm trying to figure

out if there's a sustain mode somewhere on the keyboard where I can decrease that.

?

Thanks for Any Suggestions.

?

GAT

?