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Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

 

Good idea :-)

At the Yamaha forums the runner of "Sector101" is known as member 'shadowmask' - as you can see he uses such kind of rotary switch too - as well as with his Waveblade card... which is very comfortable to use.

This is what the Datablade/Waveblade cards looks:








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Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

 

I would like a bare PCB so I can build one out of parts I already have, but alas I have a DX7S which is also not the exact same cartridge slot as the mark I.


Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Maybe this is not problem IMHO, as such card with 4096 or 8192 patches and limited possibility to reprogram (becauser most of potential users have no access to and not enough knowledge about EPROM programmers) can be inside instrument all the time, like glued :-)

When there¡¯s a need for more sounds, there¡¯s still internal RAM and SysEx communication.

Daniel Forro


On Sep 17, 2017, at 1:13,?grantbt@...?[YamahaDX] <YamahaDX@...> wrote:



Thank you for posting this. As Daniel has mentioned there is perhaps a large amount of pent up demand for something like this. Is there no issue with using the PCB traces as contacts? I know this has been done in the 80's and 90's but it seems all the recent attempts (even here on this group) have failed to achieve popular success because of board thickness or some other issue making them unreliable. I hope yours does work.??


Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

 

Hi Antoine & Andy,

thanks for the suggestion !

Of course a rotary switch would have been more reliable ( and more professional-looking ;-), but the DIP switches was cheaper and during construction, I kept in mind the use of the components I already had, like EPROM and DIP switches ;-)))
But it's an excellent idea, and I'll dig in it ! Also the use of a separate board could be a huge ergonomic improvement.

OK, there's still some work to do and stuff to play with !

Chris


Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

 

Hi Miks,

Thanks, I'll consider doing this !

Chris


Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

 

Well done, Christophe.? I have many ideas like that one, but they rarely end up actually getting built :)

I agree with Antoine - DIP switches aren't ideal, not only for ergonomics but because they are not normally rated for frequent use.?

For example, the Yamaha WX5 uses them to set options (on boot) but it advises in the manual that they are not meant to be changed frequently.? DIP switches are notorious for failing, if they're used a lot.

Maybe you could break out the switching section to a separate board, e.g. via a header and an optional IDC cable, so people could provide their own solution - that's the easy bit.? I think most of us could handle doing that, with a bit of advice from other members.

I only have a TX7, and they didn't provide a cartridge slot, so I can't use one, unfortunately.? It would be nice though.? I've debated whether it's worth the effort to design an Arduino based sysex librarian module to send a bank to it, based on Bank Select messages, for example.?? Maybe one day...

FWIW, I've (hopefully) attached a bank I've made with my favourite Piano, EP and Clav sounds from the official 1a-4b DX7 cartridges, plus a few from another source.? I cheated a bit and used some of the cartridge guitar patches too, because some make quite nice clavs, to my ear.

Andy


Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

 

F¨¦licitations Christophe!
Cool stuff.
I have a DX7-II so I won't order one (DX7 to DX7-II cartridge adapters are very rare and insanely expensive).

One suggestion, it would greatly improve usability if you used hex rotary switches with knobs instead of DIP switches.
Something like this:
Image of CTS Electronics Components' 220 Series Rotary DIP Switch


--
Antoine


Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I'm interested?
Let me know about total price ?to USA



On Sep 16, 2017, at 12:34 PM, christophe.perrod@... [YamahaDX] <YamahaDX@...> wrote:

?

Hi Daniel & grant, thank you for your answer !

I suspected someone did it before, but didn't look further...Actually, I have a bunch of 27C801 in the bottom of a drawer and wondered what to do with them ;-)....

@Daniel
For now, I only ordered the regular 3 pieces batch from OSH; there's one unpopulated card left, the two others acted as prototypes...The total amount for that batch was 45€, so a card price is 15€. Including EPROM, all the components and shipping costs, I guess a total amount of ~30€...
There's no problem for me to burn your own SYSEX : you've just to send me the list of the patches you want to be included in the EPROM ;-)...

I don't plan to design cards for other machines, as long as I don't own them ;-)...Maybe later, I'll cogit about an Arduino/SD Card interface for my DX7...

@grant
Yes, I noticed the existence of cards using PCB traces for contact...the thickness of the PCB sold by OSH seem to be satisfactory, I didn't encounter problems of bad contact...Of course, it's necessary to see in duration after many insertions/extractions....I can't tell, it works perfectly for now !

Of course I would be glad to make the board available on OSH; I'll see how it works.

Chris.


Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

 

Hi Christophe - that's great news! Maybe you want to post your outcome here:

http://www.yamahamusicians.com/forum/

There's lot of activity reg. Yamaha synths...

Regards,
Miks


Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

 

Hi Daniel & grant, thank you for your answer !

I suspected someone did it before, but didn't look further...Actually, I have a bunch of 27C801 in the bottom of a drawer and wondered what to do with them ;-)...

@Daniel
For now, I only ordered the regular 3 pieces batch from OSH; there's one unpopulated card left, the two others acted as prototypes...The total amount for that batch was 45€, so a card price is 15€. Including EPROM, all the components and shipping costs, I guess a total amount of ~30€...
There's no problem for me to burn your own SYSEX : you've just to send me the list of the patches you want to be included in the EPROM ;-)...

I don't plan to design cards for other machines, as long as I don't own them ;-)...Maybe later, I'll cogit about an Arduino/SD Card interface for my DX7...

@grant
Yes, I noticed the existence of cards using PCB traces for contact...the thickness of the PCB sold by OSH seem to be satisfactory, I didn't encounter problems of bad contact...Of course, it's necessary to see in duration after many insertions/extractions...I can't tell, it works perfectly for now !

Of course I would be glad to make the board available on OSH; I'll see how it works.

Chris.


Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

 

Great!!!!


Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

 

Thank you for posting this. As Daniel has mentioned there is perhaps a large amount of pent up demand for something like this. Is there no issue with using the PCB traces as contacts? I know this has been done in the 80's and 90's but it seems all the recent attempts (even here on this group) have failed to achieve popular success because of board thickness or some other issue making them unreliable. I hope yours does work.?

Also, OSH Park allows customers to buy boards on demand so it's possible for you to make it available that way and people buy direct from OSH Park and you receive some compensation. I'm not exactly sure how all that works though.


Re: DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches [3 Attachments]

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Finally! That¡¯s great! I was waiting for something like this 31 years :-) Merci beaucoup.

Depending on the price I could be interested in such cart. If only you offer also programming that EPROM from SysEx data for 128 DX7 banks sent by customer. I haven¡¯t possibility to do it myself.

Do you plan to make such cart also fir DX7 II D/FD and other machines using RAM4/5 cards, or SY99 and other Yamaha instruments using MCD32/64 cards?

BTW, do you know that some similar interesting devices are produced by Brian at Sector101? ?Check his page.

Daniel Forro


On Sep 16, 2017, at 23:14, christophe.perrod@... [YamahaDX] <YamahaDX@...> wrote:

[Attachment(s)?from?christophe.perrod@...?[YamahaDX] included below]?

Hi everybody,

I was fed up to boot the computer each time I wanted to try a new SYSEX...so I designed a ROM card for the DX7 built around a 27C801 EPROM ( 1MB ) and ended up with a perfectly working device able to store 256 x 32 = 4096 patches...whereof to stay awake late in the night before needing to erase and burn the EPROM again....

There's no mystery in my design, based upon the original ROM card circuitry supplied by Yamaha, which I extended the adressing bus with 8 additional lines controlled by DIP switches for highest adress bits, allowing selection of one of the 256 banks.
I had to write a ( rough for now ) Python script to extract datas from SYSEXes ( basically to remove the MIDI-dedicated bytes ) and to build the .bin file to be sent to the EPROM programmer. For now, I filled the ROM to the brim with 256 SYSEXes picked up at random ;-)

As said, the prototype seems to work very well ( though I didn't test every single patch....)

If someone is interested in such a device, I can launch a batch at OSH Park for PCBs and send them once I've received them. I can also supply rightly programmed 27C801 EPROM, or even a complete kit with all the components ( a few indeed ). Let me know !

I attach to this message pictures of the card and the script I used ( in French, sorry....).

Chris.



DX7 ROM Card with 256 x 32 patches

 

Hi everybody,

I was fed up to boot the computer each time I wanted to try a new SYSEX...so I designed a ROM card for the DX7 built around a 27C801 EPROM ( 1MB ) and ended up with a perfectly working device able to store 256 x 32 = 4096 patches...whereof to stay awake late in the night before needing to erase and burn the EPROM again....

There's no mystery in my design, based upon the original ROM card circuitry supplied by Yamaha, which I extended the adressing bus with 8 additional lines controlled by DIP switches for highest adress bits, allowing selection of one of the 256 banks.
I had to write a ( rough for now ) Python script to extract datas from SYSEXes ( basically to remove the MIDI-dedicated bytes ) and to build the .bin file to be sent to the EPROM programmer. For now, I filled the ROM to the brim with 256 SYSEXes picked up at random ;-)

As said, the prototype seems to work very well ( though I didn't test every single patch....)

If someone is interested in such a device, I can launch a batch at OSH Park for PCBs and send them once I've received them. I can also supply rightly programmed 27C801 EPROM, or even a complete kit with all the components ( a few indeed ). Let me know !

I attach to this message pictures of the card and the script I used ( in French, sorry....).


Chris.


Re: Testing HighHarpsichord & LowHarpsichord patches, Scarlatti K208 in stereo [2 Attachments]

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I love Scarlatti, have performed many of his sonatas and know everything about his music.

But - I¡¯m sorry to destroy your toys - this group is dedicated to Yamaha DX. No Scarlatti, no Baroque ornamentation...

Daniel Forro


On Sep 16, 2017, at 12:56,?teovincent4@...?[YamahaDX] <YamahaDX@...> wrote:

[Attachment(s)?from?teovincent4@...?[YamahaDX] included below]?

Hi Andy and groupies! :)

At the risk of being picked on for something, giving away ideas? Showing off? watevah..

I'll attach those 2 files, I don't think as good as uploading into the files section, maybe I can upload them to files IN STEALTH MODE so I don't get picked on?

I mean, if I felt safe doing it, I would upload the score files from IMSLP, look, we are collectively getting more intelligent with technology right?

Man there are some grace notes I REALLY need to talk to flamenco guitarists and knowledgeable Scarlatti people about, the F Minor sonata I uploaded parts of befor I think the grace notes should be BEFORE the beat which is supposedly against all rules of baroque, but I know my guitarist buddies would say it's smoother that way, and who knows, Scarlatti stayed in Spain the rest of his life, 2nd wife was Spanish, maybe he was ahead of his time with the grace notes and I'd be glad to share my research on that.. maybe find a Baroque Ornaments group or if people would like to learn something I'll share the techniques here because the harpsichord is more like a guitar anyway, and it is all about tasteful interpretations anyway!

Back to the point. These samples have K. 1, his first Sonata in D Minor and well, the last note should technically start above the note so B-A-B-A but I just do A-B-A again interpretation thoughts..

For your left-right speaker issue Andy I'll apply the Amadeus-Apple-Matrix-Reverb effect like I did before but try and make it less "in-the-way" and thanks for that comment before :)

The real test here is how the high parts go wacko, I usually play whatever I've recorded in every computer / stereo / car I can, and I feel the High-Harpsi or whatever the built in sound is called is OK generally but poor at the high register - the 2 keyboards really differ that way, I find Low-Harpsi sounds OK high! Go figure?!?

Funny I was saying to myself the right keyboard was too quiet then opened up my control panel and the pan was set slightly to the left, fixed it and they were great volumes together. I LIKE the pure left against pure right, anyone else agree? (I hope so, I'll call it confirmation and keep it up!)

The 3rd, Scarlatti K. 208 is on it's way to done, nothing too high or low, I didn't do the A&B parts dry like I will when the final recording is done. In a sense I'm letting myself hear what my fakest of harpsichords sounds like to think of how to describe it! Also I've only recorded 1 Scarlatti so far - on piano - I'll do that on Freeboards (2 DX100s) some time. I love Scarlatti's formula-like endings, always different but sort of perfect! Theory-wise.

Tonight I tried my tired old Safari browser first and I couldn't get the files either, but that Safari can't secure-connect to things all the time, like I said, maybe I'll upload them here in a sub-sub-sub folder and no one will mind?

Thanks for your time and sorry for the long-windedness, hey, when you FINALLY find a person or 3 that might have some slight interest in your secret whim development project you want to share, kapitsch? Forgive me.

Teo


Re: Testing HighHarpsichord & LowHarpsichord patches, Scarlatti K208 in stereo

 

On Sat, 15 Sep 2017, teovincent4@... [YamahaDX] wrote:

The lower one gets funky in the low notes, but I don't have a problem with them. The highs in the higher tuned sample's upper patch sound pathetic
to me. Comments welcome!
You could start experimenting with the Keyboard Level Scaling and Keyboard Rate Scaling on edit parameters for the four operators in the patch. See if you can come closer to what you are looking for.

--

MT


Re: Testing HighHarpsichord & LowHarpsichord patches, Scarlatti K208 in stereo

 

Hi Andy and groupies! :)

At the risk of being picked on for something, giving away ideas? Showing off? watevah..

I'll attach those 2 files, I don't think as good as uploading into the files section, maybe I can upload them to files IN STEALTH MODE so I don't get picked on?

I mean, if I felt safe doing it, I would upload the score files from IMSLP, look, we are collectively getting more intelligent with technology right?

Man there are some grace notes I REALLY need to talk to flamenco guitarists and knowledgeable Scarlatti people about, the F Minor sonata I uploaded parts of befor I think the grace notes should be BEFORE the beat which is supposedly against all rules of baroque, but I know my guitarist buddies would say it's smoother that way, and who knows, Scarlatti stayed in Spain the rest of his life, 2nd wife was Spanish, maybe he was ahead of his time with the grace notes and I'd be glad to share my research on that.. maybe find a Baroque Ornaments group or if people would like to learn something I'll share the techniques here because the harpsichord is more like a guitar anyway, and it is all about tasteful interpretations anyway!

Back to the point. These samples have K. 1, his first Sonata in D Minor and well, the last note should technically start above the note so B-A-B-A but I just do A-B-A again interpretation thoughts..

For your left-right speaker issue Andy I'll apply the Amadeus-Apple-Matrix-Reverb effect like I did before but try and make it less "in-the-way" and thanks for that comment before :)

The real test here is how the high parts go wacko, I usually play whatever I've recorded in every computer / stereo / car I can, and I feel the High-Harpsi or whatever the built in sound is called is OK generally but poor at the high register - the 2 keyboards really differ that way, I find Low-Harpsi sounds OK high! Go figure?!?

Funny I was saying to myself the right keyboard was too quiet then opened up my control panel and the pan was set slightly to the left, fixed it and they were great volumes together. I LIKE the pure left against pure right, anyone else agree? (I hope so, I'll call it confirmation and keep it up!)

The 3rd, Scarlatti K. 208 is on it's way to done, nothing too high or low, I didn't do the A&B parts dry like I will when the final recording is done. In a sense I'm letting myself hear what my fakest of harpsichords sounds like to think of how to describe it! Also I've only recorded 1 Scarlatti so far - on piano - I'll do that on Freeboards (2 DX100s) some time. I love Scarlatti's formula-like endings, always different but sort of perfect! Theory-wise.

Tonight I tried my tired old Safari browser first and I couldn't get the files either, but that Safari can't secure-connect to things all the time, like I said, maybe I'll upload them here in a sub-sub-sub folder and no one will mind?

Thanks for your time and sorry for the long-windedness, hey, when you FINALLY find a person or 3 that might have some slight interest in your secret whim development project you want to share, kapitsch? Forgive me.

Teo


Re: Testing HighHarpsichord & LowHarpsichord patches, Scarlatti K208 in stereo

 

The first two links didn't work for me, Teo, but the third one does.?

There was an error message, for the first two ("Error occurred while downloading the file. Please click here to try again."), so you might have to set permissions to let people follow links to your files section.

I'm having trouble with the extreme channel separation, due to the very uneven frequency response of my ears.? I can put my headphones on either way around, but I'm only clearly hearing the one I put on my right ear, today.??? I can't find an option anywhere to just mix it to mono - I'd probably need to use an actual mixer to get the full effect.

The individual parts sound good though.? I'll see if I can figure out a way to do it tomorrow, when I'm more awake.

Andy


Re: Testing HighHarpsichord & LowHarpsichord patches, Scarlatti K208 in stereo

 

Scarlatti K. 1 actually sorry. Scarlatti's sonata K. 208 is in this topic:



I put it as an attachment, still figuring out how the links / attachments / uploads all woiks! Thanks for bearing with me.

Yes, these samples are the first half of Scarlatti's very first keyboard sonata! Of his 555 sonatas.


Testing HighHarpsichord & LowHarpsichord patches, Scarlatti K208 in stereo

 

Hi and thanks for this opportunity. Using the built in Harpsichord sounds, low & high, in stereo on 2 DX-100s I had transposed to C5 for this high recording but it gets too high and tinny:



This is the octave I think I'll use, the high transposed to C4 instead:



I have a sustain pedal with y-jacks to sustain both keyboards somewhat, hopefully it is tasteful - of course real harpsichords have no sustain pedal.

I think I'll add the effect as I did before, it merges the left and right somewhat, though again is unnatural.

The lower one gets funky in the low notes, but I don't have a problem with them. The highs in the higher tuned sample's upper patch sound pathetic to me. Comments welcome!

If anyone can suggest better harpsichord patches or ways to improve the existing ones thanks in advance.

Teo


ps These, like all the other samples I've shared are not completed works AT ALL, obviously. I thought a group dedicated to this amazing little keyboard would appreciate someone sharing new ways to use it, patches, techniques like 2 in stereo, sustain on 1 or both, maybe using the breath controller and or footpedal in that jack and so on. If people don't like this they can simply go past this post obviously and I'm sorry for taking up your time. I've made my own yahoo group and won't use up any space here with files. I'm simply open to suggestions or comments. I hope the links from this post to the files in my groups work.