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DIY Programming Cable


 

I uploaded to the files section my Quick & Dirty programming cable. The cable uses a cheap FTDI USB to RS232 (TTL) adaptor. The prototype has been assembled without soldering iron,
by just twisting together the few wires. I used it successfully to program memories with Chirp in my FT-60 under Windows 10.?
Hope it will be useful.?

73 Giovanni IZ5PQT


 

Thank You
--
Gary
KY8M
Macomb, MI.


 

Gary, I don't have the permission for file uploading

73
Giovanni


 

Well, thank you for trying. Someone here might be able to help you.
--
Gary
KY8M
Macomb, MI.


 

Schematic and instructions for the programming cable can be found on my WEB site


Hope it will be? useful.

73 Giovanni IZ5PQT


 

Just one comment, the TX/RX line should not be just connected together. The correct way is to connect TXD line from the FTDI UART to the RXD line through a 1N4148 diode or similar. And both the RX/TX lines are pulled high using a single 10K resistor to the 3V3 line.


 

Well Dale, in my case it works without the diode and without resistor!

73 Giovanni


 

It may work for you, but you do risk bricking the radio if even one byte fails when writing to the radio. I was just being helpful by giving additional information on how it is done officially and to stop someone from potentially bricking their radio.

If you try to use it without a diode and resistor on a VX170 or FT70D and other Yaesu radios it wouldn't even work at all.


 

Thank you for the remark. However I found a diagram of the Yaesu programming cable and the RX and TX were simply tied together.?
I thought that the somebody put the diode was there to protect the adaptor. Why the radio should be damaged if one bit fails??
I used the cable to write and read.

73 Giovanni IZ5PQT


Il giorno dom 27 ago 2023 alle ore 11:48 Dale Robins - 2W0ODS <dale.robins@...> ha scritto:
It may work for you, but you do risk bricking the radio if even one byte fails when writing to the radio. I was just being helpful by giving additional information on how it is done officially and to stop someone from potentially bricking their radio.

If you try to use it without a diode and resistor on a VX170 or FT70D and other Yaesu radios it wouldn't even work at all.


 

The way it reads and writes is by pulling the TX and RX lines low, without the resistor the MCU is "Floating" it's neither high or low. There can't be a pull up resistor inside the radio as the same connector on the radio is used for audio input and output. So the pull up resistor is put inside the data interface/cable.

If something is "Floating" it's very easy for a bit/byte to be interpreted incorrectly, there needs to be a large enough voltage swing to determine whether it is a 1 or 0.

If even one of those 1/0 get interpreted incorrectly the whole bit/byte is wrong and if that gets written to the radio then the programming is corrupt and will either stop the radio working completely or cause strange behaviour with the operation of the radio. In both cases it might be impossible to re-programme the radio again to get it working properly and the EEPROM or MCU may need to be removed from the board and reprogrammed on an external programmer or even replaced. The calibration data for the radio is also stored in this location.

The diode is used so the RX and TX lines do not influence each other when reading or writing. If they are just tied together, when you read from the radio the TX line on the USB to UART is getting pulled Low and when you write the RX line gets pulled Low with data. Some USB to UART chipsets don't like those lines tied together at all and will not work or crash. The CP2102 is one of those.

But you think well I can tie RX/TX together to do a loopback test, yes you can but you are not pulling them both High or Low at the same time on an external device.

Hopefully this helps and makes sense.



 

Dale

you wrote?
?There can't be a pull up resistor inside the radio as the same connector on the radio is used for audio input and output. So the pull up resistor is put inside the data interface/cable.

This is not correct: the data are transmitted via the first ring in the MIC/SPK plug, and that contact has nothing to do with the audio I/O. It is completely dedicated to
data transmission.?

Moreover? the levels on the TX pin of the adapter are well determined without any pullup resistors (I measured them directly).?


73 Giovanni IZ5PQT


Il giorno dom 27 ago 2023 alle ore 12:34 Dale Robins - 2W0ODS <dale.robins@...> ha scritto:
The way it reads and writes is by pulling the TX and RX lines low, without the resistor the MCU is "Floating" it's neither high or low. There can't be a pull up resistor inside the radio as the same connector on the radio is used for audio input and output. So the pull up resistor is put inside the data interface/cable.

If something is "Floating" it's very easy for a bit/byte to be interpreted incorrectly, there needs to be a large enough voltage swing to determine whether it is a 1 or 0.

If even one of those 1/0 get interpreted incorrectly the whole bit/byte is wrong and if that gets written to the radio then the programming is corrupt and will either stop the radio working completely or cause strange behaviour with the operation of the radio. In both cases it might be impossible to re-programme the radio again to get it working properly and the EEPROM or MCU may need to be removed from the board and reprogrammed on an external programmer or even replaced. The calibration data for the radio is also stored in this location.

The diode is used so the RX and TX lines do not influence each other when reading or writing. If they are just tied together, when you read from the radio the TX line on the USB to UART is getting pulled Low and when you write the RX line gets pulled Low with data. Some USB to UART chipsets don't like those lines tied together at all and will not work or crash. The CP2102 is one of those.

But you think well I can tie RX/TX together to do a loopback test, yes you can but you are not pulling them both High or Low at the same time on an external device.

Hopefully this helps and makes sense.



 

The specification requires a pull up resistor and a diode end of discussion. To say it's not needed is careless and could damage someone's radio. There is simply no need to be ignorant and defensive.

I was typing my long winded reply outside in a hot tub. I work with 1000s of different models and do not know the radio pinout off the top of my head. Regardless of what line it uses the radio requires an external pull up resistor. I had to say something before others copy you and make the same mistake.

What do I know, I only run a business that manufactures programming cables and interfaces, repair amatuer and professional radio equipment, amongst many other things.


 

Dale,

which specification? Is there a specification? You are the only person in the world?
who seems to know something about that cable, since my searches on the Internet
were fruitless. OK, if you run a business manufacturing programming cables?
I must trust you, but before send me a corrected copy of my schematic.?

73 Giovanni IZ5PQT



Il giorno dom 27 ago 2023 alle ore 17:52 Dale Robins - 2W0ODS <dale.robins@...> ha scritto:
The specification requires a pull up resistor and a diode end of discussion. To say it's not needed is careless and could damage someone's radio. There is simply no need to be ignorant and defensive.

I was typing my long winded reply outside in a hot tub. I work with 1000s of different models and do not know the radio pinout off the top of my head. Regardless of what line it uses the radio requires an external pull up resistor. I had to say something before others copy you and make the same mistake.

What do I know, I only run a business that manufactures programming cables and interfaces, repair amatuer and professional radio equipment, amongst many other things.


 

If you look to the FT-60 schematic you will see that on the data line there is a pullup resistor,
R1168, 47 k, which goes to the 3 V bus (regulator Q1001.)
So no need for an external resistor.
I admit that I looked to the schematic after building the interface ;-)

73 Giovanni IZ5PQT


Il giorno dom 27 ago 2023 alle ore 17:52 Dale Robins - 2W0ODS <dale.robins@...> ha scritto:
The specification requires a pull up resistor and a diode end of discussion. To say it's not needed is careless and could damage someone's radio. There is simply no need to be ignorant and defensive.

I was typing my long winded reply outside in a hot tub. I work with 1000s of different models and do not know the radio pinout off the top of my head. Regardless of what line it uses the radio requires an external pull up resistor. I had to say something before others copy you and make the same mistake.

What do I know, I only run a business that manufactures programming cables and interfaces, repair amatuer and professional radio equipment, amongst many other things.


 

The official programming set is: Yaesu CT-42 which contains CT-28 cable and the CT-29 Interface unit
The resistor inside the radio is for the Clone function between 2 radios, a resistor is absolutely necessary when used with an external programming interface.
When used with a USB to UART device a diode is required, it may sometimes JUST about work on a genuine FTDI chipset as per your case, but not reliably and it will be borderline, it also depends on how the FTDI chipset has been implemented and it will absolutely not work on every system or every radio.

It will definitely not work without a diode or resistor on a CP21xx family of USB to UART IC's.
A diode may not always be necessary with a RS232 to TTL level converter with inversion, whether that is a MAX232 or similar or through transistor level shifting, but it does not cause any harm in that scenario and can help stability on some systems.
The same interface is used for a VX170/FT270, VX6R/E, FT70D/E etc and they will definitely not work without a resistor.

I'm on holiday at the moment and I just did a quick google search for schematics and found the following:





Also, ICOM, Alinco and some Yaesu mobiles use the same type of interface and use a diode and resistor.

For the sake of soldering 2 extremely extremely cheap components it just does not make sense why someone would not fit them and become defensive about it.
Would you put the wrong oil in your engine and risk causing damage? but you would say "well it works", yes for the moment.


 
Edited

I am defending my laziness!

OK. I will modify the schematic and I will put a link to the schematic you sent me.
Thanks for the interesting discussion
73 Giovanni IZ5PQT