Rick Norell

#339

I am pleased to see that one can set up a digital control panel on the cell phone with the Z21, DR 4018, and atlas turnouts.? Do the Z21 and DR4018 indicate the correct turnout position if the turnout is operated manually rather than with the app + 4018?? I would expect to do turnout control with the throttle but someone may move a turnout manually...

#340

开云体育

Rick

What do mean by manually? If you mean someone physically switching the turnout by pushing the blades into another position then that action will not be replayed in the Z21 app.

If you mean manually by using another throttle to switch them e.g. Multimaus then that change would be reflected if the app is active.

If the app isn’t active on the phone or tablet it doesn’t matter how you change the turnouts, the changes will not be shown in the app.

Get

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Rick Norell via groups.io <ricknorell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:23:52 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [Digikeijs EN] 4018, Z21 app, and atlas turnout question

?

I am pleased to see that one can set up a digital control panel on the cell phone with the Z21, DR 4018, and atlas turnouts.? Do the Z21 and DR4018 indicate the correct turnout position if the turnout is operated manually rather than with the app + 4018?? I would expect to do turnout control with the throttle but someone may move a turnout manually...

#341

开云体育

What you do need to careful of is having multiple tablets doing the points, as from experience I’ve found that if someone switches points on their tablet it will not show on yours that it’s been thrown, it’s caused a few derailments in the fiddle yard.

Andy

Show quoted text

On 10 May 2020, at 08:08, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

?

Rick

What do mean by manually? If you mean someone physically switching the turnout by pushing the blades into another position then that action will not be replayed in the Z21 app.

If you mean manually by using another throttle to switch them e.g. Multimaus then that change would be reflected if the app is active.

If the app isn’t active on the phone or tablet it doesn’t matter how you change the turnouts, the changes will not be shown in the app.

Get

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Rick Norell via groups.io <ricknorell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:23:52 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [Digikeijs EN] 4018, Z21 app, and atlas turnout question
?

I am pleased to see that one can set up a digital control panel on the cell phone with the Z21, DR 4018, and atlas turnouts.? Do the Z21 and DR4018 indicate the correct turnout position if the turnout is operated manually rather than with the app + 4018?? I would expect to do turnout control with the throttle but someone may move a turnout manually...

Rick Norell

#343

Thank you Iain and Andrew for your helpful responses! My original concern was someone throwing a set of points by hand, likely a rare event but could happen with young children. You both brought up a greater concern, multiple operators throwing switches that may/may not show each tablet. Not a deal breaker but something needs to be considered during operation. I'll mostly be a lone operator so not a major concern. Thanks again!

On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 01:08:46 AM MDT, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

Rick

What do mean by manually? If you mean someone physically switching the turnout by pushing the blades into another position then that action will not be replayed in the Z21 app.

If you mean manually by using another throttle to switch them e.g. Multimaus then that change would be reflected if the app is active.

If the app isn’t active on the phone or tablet it doesn’t matter how you change the turnouts, the changes will not be shown in the app.

Get

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Rick Norell via groups.io <ricknorell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:23:52 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [Digikeijs EN] 4018, Z21 app, and atlas turnout question

?

I am pleased to see that one can set up a digital control panel on the cell phone with the Z21, DR 4018, and atlas turnouts.? Do the Z21 and DR4018 indicate the correct turnout position if the turnout is operated manually rather than with the app + 4018?? I would expect to do turnout control with the throttle but someone may move a turnout manually...

Rick Norell

#345

Iain,

Thanks for the additional reply. I do not yet own a system so have not had an opportunity to check this out first hand.

On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 01:58:34 PM MDT, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

I have multiple controllers and a computer, plus an iPhone and an iPad? doing changes to turnouts and they have never failed to see a change made by another one or got out of sync.

I suggest that this synchronisation issue might be a bit of a myth as it isn't something I have heard other people have issues with either.

Iain Morrison

07767456746

On 10/05/2020 20:49, Rick Norell via groups.io wrote:

Thank you Iain and Andrew for your helpful responses! My original concern was someone throwing a set of points by hand, likely a rare event but could happen with young children. You both brought up a greater concern, multiple operators throwing switches that may/may not show each tablet. Not a deal breaker but something needs to be considered during operation. I'll mostly be a lone operator so not a major concern. Thanks again!

On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 01:08:46 AM MDT, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

Rick

What do mean by manually? If you mean someone physically switching the turnout by pushing the blades into another position then that action will not be replayed in the Z21 app.

If you mean manually by using another throttle to switch them e.g. Multimaus then that change would be reflected if the app is active.

If the app isn’t active on the phone or tablet it doesn’t matter how you change the turnouts, the changes will not be shown in the app.

Get

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Rick Norell via groups.io <ricknorell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:23:52 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [Digikeijs EN] 4018, Z21 app, and atlas turnout question

?

I am pleased to see that one can set up a digital control panel on the cell phone with the Z21, DR 4018, and atlas turnouts.? Do the Z21 and DR4018 indicate the correct turnout position if the turnout is operated manually rather than with the app + 4018?? I would expect to do turnout control with the throttle but someone may move a turnout manually...

#346

Rick,

If there is a possibility of a turnout being thrown manually then you will need to add a senor trigger to the the turnout.? ?Like some kind of micro switch.?

Use the micro switch to trigger a sensor input on a DR4088LN-GND.? This will then update all your devices as to the actual position of the turnout.

Having Positive Turnout Control is nice even in the event you send out a turnout command and the physical turnout doesn't throw for some reason.

This can also be done using the same sensor inputs as mentioned above with a motor like a Tortoise by using the built in switch.? If it doesn't throw then the sensor never changes letting you know there is a problem.??

Ryan

#347

开云体育

Hi Iain,

Which z21 app are you using the new or old version? I can definitely confirm the point switching not being noticed on one tablet when switched by another as I was running my layout at Calne this year for the first time and with two of us running we found that although locos would show on either tablets, points caught us out several times resulting in derailments.?

Cheers

Andy

Show quoted text

On 10 May 2020, at 20:58, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

?
I have multiple controllers and a computer, plus an iPhone and an iPad? doing changes to turnouts and they have never failed to see a change made by another one or got out of sync.

I suggest that this synchronisation issue might be a bit of a myth as it isn't something I have heard other people have issues with either.

Iain Morrison

07767456746

On 10/05/2020 20:49, Rick Norell via groups.io wrote:

Thank you Iain and Andrew for your helpful responses! My original concern was someone throwing a set of points by hand, likely a rare event but could happen with young children. You both brought up a greater concern, multiple operators throwing switches that may/may not show each tablet. Not a deal breaker but something needs to be considered during operation. I'll mostly be a lone operator so not a major concern. Thanks again!

On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 01:08:46 AM MDT, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

Rick

What do mean by manually? If you mean someone physically switching the turnout by pushing the blades into another position then that action will not be replayed in the Z21 app.

If you mean manually by using another throttle to switch them e.g. Multimaus then that change would be reflected if the app is active.

If the app isn’t active on the phone or tablet it doesn’t matter how you change the turnouts, the changes will not be shown in the app.

Get

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Rick Norell via groups.io <ricknorell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:23:52 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [Digikeijs EN] 4018, Z21 app, and atlas turnout question
?

I am pleased to see that one can set up a digital control panel on the cell phone with the Z21, DR 4018, and atlas turnouts.? Do the Z21 and DR4018 indicate the correct turnout position if the turnout is operated manually rather than with the app + 4018?? I would expect to do turnout control with the throttle but someone may move a turnout manually...

#348

开云体育

I am using the ‘new’ version and I would suggest that if the issue happened at an exhibition then it was probably down to network contention (phones also cause issues as they are broadcasting all the time) as many people have had issues using WiFi at exhibitors - NEC last year was chaotic with people buying up all the wired handsets they could find to get over the WiFi issues

This isn’t a problem at home though :)

Get

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of andrew whitaker via groups.io <andy9202@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:14:39 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Digikeijs EN] 4018, Z21 app, and atlas turnout question

?

Hi Iain,

Which z21 app are you using the new or old version? I can definitely confirm the point switching not being noticed on one tablet when switched by another as I was running my layout at Calne this year for the first time and with two of us running we found that although locos would show on either tablets, points caught us out several times resulting in derailments.?

Cheers

Andy

On 10 May 2020, at 20:58, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

?
I have multiple controllers and a computer, plus an iPhone and an iPad? doing changes to turnouts and they have never failed to see a change made by another one or got out of sync.

I suggest that this synchronisation issue might be a bit of a myth as it isn't something I have heard other people have issues with either.

Iain Morrison

07767456746

On 10/05/2020 20:49, Rick Norell via groups.io wrote:

Thank you Iain and Andrew for your helpful responses! My original concern was someone throwing a set of points by hand, likely a rare event but could happen with young children. You both brought up a greater concern, multiple operators throwing switches that may/may not show each tablet. Not a deal breaker but something needs to be considered during operation. I'll mostly be a lone operator so not a major concern. Thanks again!

On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 01:08:46 AM MDT, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

Rick

What do mean by manually? If you mean someone physically switching the turnout by pushing the blades into another position then that action will not be replayed in the Z21 app.

If you mean manually by using another throttle to switch them e.g. Multimaus then that change would be reflected if the app is active.

If the app isn’t active on the phone or tablet it doesn’t matter how you change the turnouts, the changes will not be shown in the app.

Get

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Rick Norell via groups.io <ricknorell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:23:52 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [Digikeijs EN] 4018, Z21 app, and atlas turnout question
?

I am pleased to see that one can set up a digital control panel on the cell phone with the Z21, DR 4018, and atlas turnouts.? Do the Z21 and DR4018 indicate the correct turnout position if the turnout is operated manually rather than with the app + 4018?? I would expect to do turnout control with the throttle but someone may move a turnout manually...

#349

开云体育

I’m on the same one so not that, the DR5000 has it’s own wifi and both tablets were set to only connect to that so no problem on that front as both were operating at the same time using the dual screen track and loco. ?Unfortunately due to the current situation I can’t check out whether or not it’s still a problem as my layout is 9miles away in the clubroom.

Andy

Show quoted text

On 10 May 2020, at 21:21, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

?

I am using the ‘new’ version and I would suggest that if the issue happened at an exhibition then it was probably down to network contention (phones also cause issues as they are broadcasting all the time) as many people have had issues using WiFi at exhibitors - NEC last year was chaotic with people buying up all the wired handsets they could find to get over the WiFi issues

This isn’t a problem at home though :)

Get

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of andrew whitaker via groups.io <andy9202@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:14:39 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Digikeijs EN] 4018, Z21 app, and atlas turnout question
?

Hi Iain,

Which z21 app are you using the new or old version? I can definitely confirm the point switching not being noticed on one tablet when switched by another as I was running my layout at Calne this year for the first time and with two of us running we found that although locos would show on either tablets, points caught us out several times resulting in derailments.?

Cheers

Andy

On 10 May 2020, at 20:58, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

?
I have multiple controllers and a computer, plus an iPhone and an iPad? doing changes to turnouts and they have never failed to see a change made by another one or got out of sync.

I suggest that this synchronisation issue might be a bit of a myth as it isn't something I have heard other people have issues with either.

Iain Morrison

07767456746

On 10/05/2020 20:49, Rick Norell via groups.io wrote:

Thank you Iain and Andrew for your helpful responses! My original concern was someone throwing a set of points by hand, likely a rare event but could happen with young children. You both brought up a greater concern, multiple operators throwing switches that may/may not show each tablet. Not a deal breaker but something needs to be considered during operation. I'll mostly be a lone operator so not a major concern. Thanks again!

On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 01:08:46 AM MDT, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

Rick

What do mean by manually? If you mean someone physically switching the turnout by pushing the blades into another position then that action will not be replayed in the Z21 app.

If you mean manually by using another throttle to switch them e.g. Multimaus then that change would be reflected if the app is active.

If the app isn’t active on the phone or tablet it doesn’t matter how you change the turnouts, the changes will not be shown in the app.

Get

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Rick Norell via groups.io <ricknorell@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:23:52 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [Digikeijs EN] 4018, Z21 app, and atlas turnout question
?

I am pleased to see that one can set up a digital control panel on the cell phone with the Z21, DR 4018, and atlas turnouts.? Do the Z21 and DR4018 indicate the correct turnout position if the turnout is operated manually rather than with the app + 4018?? I would expect to do turnout control with the throttle but someone may move a turnout manually...

Rick Norell

#352

On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 03:19:30 PM MDT, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

auto-correction is a pain :( - correct message

I personally WOULDN'T use the DR5000 Wi-Fi for more than one device, it isn't a router.

Iain Morrison

You seem to be saying that one cannot connect two throttles to DR5000 Wifi.? I don't believe that is true, or at least, hope it is not true!? That would be deal breaker for me.

Rick Norell

#354

Why not?? Details please!

On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 04:18:42 PM MDT, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

Not saying you cant, just saying that I wouldn't - I would use a Wi-Fi router and connect the DR5000 via a LAN cable to the Wi-Fi router.

Iain Morrison

07767456746

On 10/05/2020 23:16, Rick Norell via groups.io wrote:

On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 03:19:30 PM MDT, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

auto-correction is a pain :( - correct message

I personally WOULDN'T use the DR5000 Wi-Fi for more than one device, it isn't a router.

Iain Morrison

You seem to be saying that one cannot connect two throttles to DR5000 Wifi.? I don't believe that is true, or at least, hope it is not true!? That would be deal breaker for me.

#355

I would also be interested in knowing why not.? I haven't run across any issues with having more than one connected.

In fact,? I attend a regular op session that has 16 Roco WLANmaus all connected straight to the DR5000 at the same time.? Plus some Z21 apps on phones.

These op sessions go for over three hours.

Haven't seen any issues yet and this setup has been in place for over a year now.

Ryan

Rick Norell

#369

Thanks for the explanation. A user on my future layout would be no more than 12 feet away from a centrally located DR5000. It would have a maximum run of 110 feet in a 12 ft by 24 ft area. Not a large layout by any means and would most likely have only 1 or 2 operators using a cell phone or a tablet. I have looked into the Roco Wlan Maus and decided against their use. I want to control turnouts with the 4018's but do not want to memorize turnout numbers or create multiple track drawings with turnout numbers and at various locations on the layout. I should have acceptable wifi performance in this environment.

On Monday, May 11, 2020, 02:12:05 AM MDT, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

My view is based upon the low power of the DR5000 Wi-Fi (showed as -60Db when scanned) at a large layout which was having connectivity and stability issues with multiple users (6) using Wi-Fi Multimaus. Changing to an external TP-Link router connected via cable to the DR5000 using Z21 protocol on LAN gave a -40Db signal and no connectivity or stability issues anywhere in the train room.

The Z21 app is a lot more chatty on the network than the Multimaus therefore stable connections are even more important, especially when multiple devices are in use.

Iain Morrison

07767456746

On 10/05/2020 23:25, Rick Norell via groups.io wrote:

Why not?? Details please!

On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 04:18:42 PM MDT, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

Not saying you cant, just saying that I wouldn't - I would use a Wi-Fi router and connect the DR5000 via a LAN cable to the Wi-Fi router.

Iain Morrison

07767456746

On 10/05/2020 23:16, Rick Norell via groups.io wrote:

On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 03:19:30 PM MDT, Iain Morrison <w.iain.morrison@...> wrote:

auto-correction is a pain :( - correct message

I personally WOULDN'T use the DR5000 Wi-Fi for more than one device, it isn't a router.

Iain Morrison

You seem to be saying that one cannot connect two throttles to DR5000 Wifi.? I don't believe that is true, or at least, hope it is not true!? That would be deal breaker for me.

#372

I've taken part in a modular meeting where the layout was over 50' x 50'. We had a DR5000 running with several multimouse and Z21 phone throttles along with two JMRI withrottles one on a laptop the other with a Pi, all worked together.

Mike Ruby