Re: I-Z58

This site only gives a generic I1 based on my STR results. I am going to try??instead.

Re: I-Z58

开云体育

Thank, Jim

Aaron - here’s another website that may predict what your terminal SNP will be based on STR results. ?Let us know if that moves you down the tree any.

Best,

Chris

Show quoted text

On Feb 21, 2021, at 2:39 PM, Jim E Robeson <robeson.jim.e@...> wrote:

Chris,?

Wow, that is a slick website. ?Thanks for posting the link. I had never seen it before.

Jim Robeson,?

I1a-M253 > DF29 > CTS6364 > S4795 > S4767 > S4770 > Y13495/Y13016 > Y29634/S4774?> A13294

Mito-H1e1a

On Feb 20, 2021, at 4:48 PM, Amaden Home <chris@...> wrote:

?Try this website for determining when and where your ancestors were
Make sure you look at the SNP tab too. ?If you take the BigY700 test, you’ll be able to get further SNPs down the trail.

Best,
Chris

On Feb 20, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Mats Ahlgren <ma.ahlgren@...> wrote:

A rather simple explanation for the I-Y6375 amerindian part is that one person hasn’t the heritage he thinks, Somewhere in his line is an European ancestor. That is always the case when using user submitted information. The best with this is that the user now see that this is probably not right??

Mats
?
Fr?n:?[email protected]?<[email protected]>?F?r?E Avery
Skickat:?den 20 februari 2021 23:29
Till:?[email protected]
?mne:?Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I] I-Z58
?
Hi Keith, Aaron,
?
My father’s FTDNA results are Z63 [but not Z58], with the terminal at I-BY40648.
?
His results are unusual, lacking in non-surname matches (a known cousin is 35/37 match). There are zero matches to his terminal SNP.
?
I don’t have a good understanding of the haplogroup trees, but I had hoped through to identify a geographic region of origin for my male line. After looking at the results, it’s my understanding that the identification of regions associated with a haplogroup are based on the information provided by people who have tested. If that’s true, I would expect to find errors (due to incorrect family documentation) and large gaps (due to lack of participants) in the knowledge base. France, for instance is seriously under-represented in genetic test results.
?
Can anyone suggest the implications of zero matches at the terminal SNP?
?
I would also appreciate an insight in understanding how people from the UK would be downstream of a Native American. It flows like this, downstream of I-Z63:?
??????????????????????I-Y6375 Amerindian ancestry >?I-Y13945?UK ancestry >?I-BY40648 (my father)
?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions!
?
Best,
Eileen
?
On Feb 20, 2021, at 4:41 AM, Keith Harris <ksharris1@...> wrote:
?
Hi Aaron,
? ?There was a flurry of interest?in?Z58+ back when Ken Nordedt was involved.? Family Tree has a project but I don't know how active it is (). ?(The project name is?"I1>Z63+ and?I1>Z59+" but it appears to actually mean Z58+.)
?? By the way, I'm in Harris Group 4 and I tested positive for Z63 but negative for Z58.? Downstream SNP results:
M21-, ?M227-, ??M253+, P109-, P259-,?P30+, L22-, L338-,?Z63+, Z131-, Z58-,?L840+,?DF29+, L1243-,?L1237+, CTS7416-,?L1439+
Best, Keith
?
On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 11:44 PM Aaron Hill <hillaj@...> wrote:
Just learned that one of my cousins is?I-Z58+. This is from the 23andMe database. I, unfortunately, tested years ago, long before this subclade was discovered. Anyone know of any resources for this group?

Aaron?
?
?
?

Re: I-Z58

#28

开云体育

Chris,?

Wow, that is a slick website. ?Thanks for posting the link. I had never seen it before.

Jim Robeson,?

I1a-M253 > DF29 > CTS6364 > S4795 > S4767 > S4770 > Y13495/Y13016 > Y29634/S4774?> A13294

Mito-H1e1a

Show quoted text

On Feb 20, 2021, at 4:48 PM, Amaden Home <chris@...> wrote:

?Try this website for determining when and where your ancestors were
Make sure you look at the SNP tab too. ?If you take the BigY700 test, you’ll be able to get further SNPs down the trail.

Best,
Chris

On Feb 20, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Mats Ahlgren <ma.ahlgren@...> wrote:

A rather simple explanation for the I-Y6375 amerindian part is that one person hasn’t the heritage he thinks, Somewhere in his line is an European ancestor. That is always the case when using user submitted information. The best with this is that the user now see that this is probably not right??

Mats
?
Fr?n:?[email protected]?<[email protected]>?F?r?E Avery
Skickat:?den 20 februari 2021 23:29
Till:?[email protected]
?mne:?Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I] I-Z58
?
Hi Keith, Aaron,
?
My father’s FTDNA results are Z63 [but not Z58], with the terminal at I-BY40648.
?
His results are unusual, lacking in non-surname matches (a known cousin is 35/37 match). There are zero matches to his terminal SNP.
?
I don’t have a good understanding of the haplogroup trees, but I had hoped through to identify a geographic region of origin for my male line. After looking at the results, it’s my understanding that the identification of regions associated with a haplogroup are based on the information provided by people who have tested. If that’s true, I would expect to find errors (due to incorrect family documentation) and large gaps (due to lack of participants) in the knowledge base. France, for instance is seriously under-represented in genetic test results.
?
Can anyone suggest the implications of zero matches at the terminal SNP?
?
I would also appreciate an insight in understanding how people from the UK would be downstream of a Native American. It flows like this, downstream of I-Z63:?
??????????????????????I-Y6375 Amerindian ancestry >?I-Y13945?UK ancestry >?I-BY40648 (my father)
?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions!
?
Best,
Eileen
?
On Feb 20, 2021, at 4:41 AM, Keith Harris <ksharris1@...> wrote:
?
Hi Aaron,
? ?There was a flurry of interest?in?Z58+ back when Ken Nordedt was involved.? Family Tree has a project but I don't know how active it is (). ?(The project name is?"I1>Z63+ and?I1>Z59+" but it appears to actually mean Z58+.)
?? By the way, I'm in Harris Group 4 and I tested positive for Z63 but negative for Z58.? Downstream SNP results:
M21-, ?M227-, ??M253+, P109-, P259-,?P30+, L22-, L338-,?Z63+, Z131-, Z58-,?L840+,?DF29+, L1243-,?L1237+, CTS7416-,?L1439+
Best, Keith
?
On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 11:44 PM Aaron Hill <hillaj@...> wrote:
Just learned that one of my cousins is?I-Z58+. This is from the 23andMe database. I, unfortunately, tested years ago, long before this subclade was discovered. Anyone know of any resources for this group?

Aaron?
?
?
?

Re: M253+ > DF29+ > Z58+ > A5734?

#27

开云体育

Check out Custom Panels at:

You could create a panel with all the specific SNPs of your little group, including the known private SNPs.

If all/most members (with unknown results for these SNPs) order this panel the resolution will increase. If the SNPs that you want to order are not available you simply can ask to add them to the SNP list.

Best,

Hans

Show quoted text

Van: [email protected] <[email protected]> namens Aaron Hill <hillaj@...>
Verzonden: zondag 21 februari 2021 10:37
Aan: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Onderwerp: Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I] M253+ > DF29+ > Z58+ > A5734?

?

How does one do that and how will it benefit our little group?

Get

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Hans De Beule <hans.debeule@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2021 1:34:49 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I] M253+ > DF29+ > Z58+ > A5734?

?

Why don't you create a customizes Yseq panel?

Verzonden vanaf mijn Galaxy

-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------

Van: Aaron Hill <hillaj@...>

Datum: 21/02/21 09:36 (GMT+01:00)

Aan: [email protected]

Onderwerp: Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I] M253+ > DF29+ > Z58+ > A5734?

What is so frustrating is that none of these SNPs in question — A5734, BY152625, BY155598, FT90664?—?are offered for testing by FTDNA, without doing the BigY700, which is expensive and unnecessary in this instance.

Re: M253+ > DF29+ > Z58+ > A5734?

#26

开云体育

How does one do that and how will it benefit our little group?

Get

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Hans De Beule <hans.debeule@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2021 1:34:49 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I] M253+ > DF29+ > Z58+ > A5734?

?

Why don't you create a customizes Yseq panel?

Verzonden vanaf mijn Galaxy

-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------

Van: Aaron Hill <hillaj@...>

Datum: 21/02/21 09:36 (GMT+01:00)

Aan: [email protected]

Onderwerp: Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I] M253+ > DF29+ > Z58+ > A5734?

What is so frustrating is that none of these SNPs in question — A5734, BY152625, BY155598, FT90664?—?are offered for testing by FTDNA, without doing the BigY700, which is expensive and unnecessary in this instance.

Re: M253+ > DF29+ > Z58+ > A5734?

#25

开云体育

Why don't you create a customizes Yseq panel?

Verzonden vanaf mijn Galaxy

-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------

Van: Aaron Hill <hillaj@...>

Datum: 21/02/21 09:36 (GMT+01:00)

Aan: [email protected]

Onderwerp: Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I] M253+ > DF29+ > Z58+ > A5734?

What is so frustrating is that none of these SNPs in question — A5734, BY152625, BY155598, FT90664?—?are offered for testing by FTDNA, without doing the BigY700, which is expensive and unnecessary in this instance.

Re: M253+ > DF29+ > Z58+ > A5734?

#24

What is so frustrating is that none of these SNPs in question — A5734, BY152625, BY155598, FT90664?—?are offered for testing by FTDNA, without doing the BigY700, which is expensive and unnecessary in this instance.

M253+ > DF29+ > Z58+ > A5734?

#23

I have studied the SNPs in my most closest matches. There appear to be two distinct subclades as of now.

M253 > DF29 > Z58 > A5734 > BY152625 > BY155598

?

and

?

M253 > DF29 > Z58 > A5734 > FT90664

Unfortunately, Family Tree DNA does not offer these in the Z58 package for some reason.

I1 - Z58 SNP Pack

Includes the following SNPs on the haplotree:

Z59, Z138, Z139, FGC3447, PF2805, S5619, FGC3466, FGC3481, FGC3491, F2011, Y11873, Y11214, Y11213, Y11212, Y11211, Y8434, Y8433, A6849, A6835, A6827, A6830, A6832, A6839, A6846, Y8432, Y8431, Y8430, Y8429, Y7634, BY1, A6482, S2293, S6277, Y15575, Y15576, Y15577, Y15902, Y15903, S6270, S6275, S20289, A6549, S27836, Y16451, A6553, A6558, A6579, A6583, A6586, A6591, A6592, A6606, A6397, A6552, A6779, A6546, A6781, S6402, Z382, Y5384, Y15694, Z2040, Z58, A285, FGC12741, FGC12742, FGC12744, FGC12748, FGC12752, FGC12754, FGC12755, FGC12757, FGC12759, FGC12760, FGC12763, FGC12764, FGC24330, L1450, L1451, L1452, PH4774, PH5206, S15398, S16501, S18311, S20488, S26361, Y15002, Y15003, Y15004, Y15005, Y15011, Y15013, Y15479, Y15480, Y15482, Y15484, Y15485, Y15596, Y15597, Y16456, Y18238, Y18310, Y18386, Y2170, Y3564, Y3573, Y4111, Y5385, Y5387, Y5390, Y5391, Y6085, Y6086, Y6088, Y6089, Y6090, Y6091, Y6092, Y6165, Y6708, Y7040, Y7041, Y7042, Y7043, Y7044, Y7049, Y7052, Y7055, Y7056, Y7057, Y7232, Y7233, Y7927, Y7931, Y8341, Y8342, Y8343, Y8777, Y8778, Y8779, Y8780, Z2037, Z2039, Z2041, Z2042

Includes the following SNPs that are NOT on the haplotree:

PF1610, PF856, Y18237

Re: I-Z58

#22

There is no reason for me to take the BigY700 test. Another Hill cousin has already tested Z58+. Other cousins have tested DF29+.

Re: I-Z58

#21

开云体育

Try this website for determining when and where your ancestors were

Make sure you look at the SNP tab too. ?If you take the BigY700 test, you’ll be able to get further SNPs down the trail.

Best,

Chris

Show quoted text

On Feb 20, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Mats Ahlgren <ma.ahlgren@...> wrote:

A rather simple explanation for the I-Y6375 amerindian part is that one person hasn’t the heritage he thinks, Somewhere in his line is an European ancestor. That is always the case when using user submitted information. The best with this is that the user now see that this is probably not right??

Mats

?

Fr?n:?[email protected]?<[email protected]>?F?r?E Avery
Skickat:?den 20 februari 2021 23:29
Till:?[email protected]
?mne:?Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I] I-Z58

?

Hi Keith, Aaron,

?

My father’s FTDNA results are Z63 [but not Z58], with the terminal at I-BY40648.

?

His results are unusual, lacking in non-surname matches (a known cousin is 35/37 match). There are zero matches to his terminal SNP.

?

I don’t have a good understanding of the haplogroup trees, but I had hoped through to identify a geographic region of origin for my male line. After looking at the results, it’s my understanding that the identification of regions associated with a haplogroup are based on the information provided by people who have tested. If that’s true, I would expect to find errors (due to incorrect family documentation) and large gaps (due to lack of participants) in the knowledge base. France, for instance is seriously under-represented in genetic test results.

?

Can anyone suggest the implications of zero matches at the terminal SNP?

?

I would also appreciate an insight in understanding how people from the UK would be downstream of a Native American. It flows like this, downstream of I-Z63:?

??????????????????????I-Y6375 Amerindian ancestry >?I-Y13945?UK ancestry >?I-BY40648 (my father)

?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions!

?

Best,

Eileen

?

On Feb 20, 2021, at 4:41 AM, Keith Harris <ksharris1@...> wrote:
?
Hi Aaron,
? ?There was a flurry of interest?in?Z58+ back when Ken Nordedt was involved.? Family Tree has a project but I don't know how active it is (). ?(The project name is?"I1>Z63+ and?I1>Z59+" but it appears to actually mean Z58+.)
?? By the way, I'm in Harris Group 4 and I tested positive for Z63 but negative for Z58.? Downstream SNP results:
M21-, ?M227-, ??M253+, P109-, P259-,?P30+, L22-, L338-,?Z63+, Z131-, Z58-,?L840+,?DF29+, L1243-,?L1237+, CTS7416-,?L1439+
Best, Keith
?
On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 11:44 PM Aaron Hill <hillaj@...> wrote:
Just learned that one of my cousins is?I-Z58+. This is from the 23andMe database. I, unfortunately, tested years ago, long before this subclade was discovered. Anyone know of any resources for this group?

Aaron?
?
?

?

Re: I-Z58

#20

开云体育

A rather simple explanation for the I-Y6375 amerindian part is that one person hasn’t the heritage he thinks, Somewhere in his line is an European ancestor. That is always the case when using user submitted information. The best with this is that the user now see that this is probably not right ?

Mats

?

Fr?n: [email protected] <[email protected]> F?r E Avery
Skickat: den 20 februari 2021 23:29
Till: [email protected]
?mne: Re: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I] I-Z58

?

Hi Keith, Aaron,

?

My father’s FTDNA results are Z63 [but not Z58], with the terminal at I-BY40648.

?

His results are unusual, lacking in non-surname matches (a known cousin is 35/37 match). There are zero matches to his terminal SNP.

?

I don’t have a good understanding of the haplogroup trees, but I had hoped through to identify a geographic region of origin for my male line. After looking at the results, it’s my understanding that the identification of regions associated with a haplogroup are based on the information provided by people who have tested. If that’s true, I would expect to find errors (due to incorrect family documentation) and large gaps (due to lack of participants) in the knowledge base. France, for instance is seriously under-represented in genetic test results.

?

Can anyone suggest the implications of zero matches at the terminal SNP?

?

I would also appreciate an insight in understanding how people from the UK would be downstream of a Native American. It flows like this, downstream of I-Z63:?

????????????????????? I-Y6375 Amerindian ancestry >?I-Y13945?UK ancestry >?I-BY40648 (my father)

?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions!

?

Best,

Eileen

?

Show quoted text

On Feb 20, 2021, at 4:41 AM, Keith Harris <ksharris1@...> wrote:
?
Hi Aaron,
? ?There was a flurry of interest in Z58+ back when Ken Nordedt was involved.? Family Tree has a project but I don't know how active it is (). ?(The project name is "I1>Z63+ and I1>Z59+" but it appears to actually mean Z58+.)
?? By the way, I'm in Harris Group 4 and I tested positive for Z63 but negative for Z58.? Downstream SNP results:
M21-, ?M227-, ??M253+, P109-, P259-, P30+, L22-, L338-, Z63+, Z131-, Z58-, L840+, DF29+, L1243-, L1237+, CTS7416-, L1439+
Best, Keith
?
On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 11:44 PM Aaron Hill <hillaj@...> wrote:
Just learned that one of my cousins is?I-Z58+. This is from the 23andMe database. I, unfortunately, tested years ago, long before this subclade was discovered. Anyone know of any resources for this group?

Aaron
?
?

?

Re: I-Z58

#19

开云体育

Hi Keith, Aaron,

My father’s FTDNA results are Z63 [but not Z58], with the terminal at I-BY40648.

His results are unusual, lacking in non-surname matches (a known cousin is 35/37 match). There are zero matches to his terminal SNP.

I don’t have a good understanding of the haplogroup trees, but I had hoped through to identify a geographic region of origin for my male line. After looking at the results, it’s my understanding that the identification of regions associated with a haplogroup are based on the information provided by people who have tested. If that’s true, I would expect to find errors (due to incorrect family documentation) and large gaps (due to lack of participants) in the knowledge base. France, for instance is seriously under-represented in genetic test results.

Can anyone suggest the implications of zero matches at the terminal SNP?

I would also appreciate an insight in understanding how people from the UK would be downstream of a Native American. It flows like this, downstream of I-Z63:?

I-Y6375 Amerindian ancestry >?I-Y13945?UK ancestry >?I-BY40648 (my father)

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions!

Best,

Eileen

Show quoted text

On Feb 20, 2021, at 4:41 AM, Keith Harris <ksharris1@...> wrote:

Hi Aaron,
? ?There was a flurry of interest in Z58+ back when Ken Nordedt was involved.? Family Tree has a project but I don't know how active it is (). ?(The project name is "I1>Z63+ and I1>Z59+" but it appears to actually mean Z58+.)
?? By the way, I'm in Harris Group 4 and I tested positive for Z63 but negative for Z58.? Downstream SNP results:

M21-, ?M227-, ??M253+, P109-, P259-, P30+, L22-, L338-, Z63+, Z131-, Z58-, L840+, DF29+, L1243-, L1237+, CTS7416-, L1439+

Best, Keith

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 11:44 PM Aaron Hill <hillaj@...> wrote:
Just learned that one of my cousins is?I-Z58+. This is from the 23andMe database. I, unfortunately, tested years ago, long before this subclade was discovered. Anyone know of any resources for this group?

Aaron

Re: Ken Nordtvedt

#18

Thanks. That is one feature I like about groups.io: attachments!

Re: Ken Nordtvedt

#17

I don't have a file with that specific name, but found these two from a group thread. One by Ken and the other from Julie Frame Falk.

Tree for I1 Z58+ Z60-.pdf

JFF_ I1- Z63 et al.pdf

JFF_ I1- Z58 et al.pdf

Re: Ken Nordtvedt

#16

开云体育

I found a page on Google Docs (?) Groups (?), headed by Bernie Cullen and Zdenko Markovic, but most Nordtvedt links failed, and even worse, I failed to bookmark it. They work in mainly I2 and most of my work is in I1, but I wish I had saved the link to provide here. ?Instead, I saved some files locally, but they were quite old and do not seem to pertain to your question. If I stumble on it again, I will post here.

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Aaron Hill
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2021 4:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I] Ken Nordtvedt

?

I have looked for archived copies of Ken's site, which is now offline, but without much success. Anyone know of people who have saved material from his old site? I am particularly interested in this document,?.

Aaron

Ken Nordtvedt

#15

I have looked for archived copies of Ken's site, which is now offline, but without much success. Anyone know of people who have saved material from his old site? I am particularly interested in this document,?.

Aaron

Re: I-Z58

#14

A close match in the Family Tree DNA database is?I-A5734+.

Re: I-Z58

#13

Hi Aaron,

? ?There was a flurry of interest in Z58+ back when Ken Nordedt was involved.? Family Tree has a project but I don't know how active it is (). ?(The project name is "I1>Z63+ and I1>Z59+" but it appears to actually mean Z58+.)

?? By the way, I'm in Harris Group 4 and I tested positive for Z63 but negative for Z58.? Downstream SNP results:

M21-, ?M227-, ??M253+, P109-, P259-, P30+, L22-, L338-, Z63+, Z131-, Z58-, L840+, DF29+, L1243-, L1237+, CTS7416-, L1439+

Best, Keith

Show quoted text

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 11:44 PM Aaron Hill <hillaj@...> wrote:

Just learned that one of my cousins is?I-Z58+. This is from the 23andMe database. I, unfortunately, tested years ago, long before this subclade was discovered. Anyone know of any resources for this group?

Aaron

I-Z58

#12

Just learned that one of my cousins is?I-Z58+. This is from the 23andMe database. I, unfortunately, tested years ago, long before this subclade was discovered. Anyone know of any resources for this group?

Aaron

Re: Haplogroup I1 Ancient Samples Map

#11

Thanks for this reference, Simon.  I found two samples that match, at least to a degree, my own Y-haplogroup.  Sample VK297 in Denmark is I1-Y4051, which is also my terminal SNP at present, and sample VK549 in Estonia is I1-P109, which is the SNP I was "stuck at" for so long, until I took the Big-Y test.  There is also one sample which matches my mt-haplogroup.
... Martin Potter

Show quoted text

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 05:30 PM, Simon Hedley wrote:


Since we have a first post on the list from Hans, then we can say the list is
active. Thanks Hans!

Not sure if any of the material will migrate from Rootsweb, and in case it
doesn't, I'll share the link to my map of ancient samples that have been
designated Haplogroup I1. Also including some samples that are pre-I1/I* (on
the map with black skull and crossbones) - they have derived SNPs on the I1
branch that are phyloequivalent with M253 (312 SNPs on the current YFull tree)
but also have ancestral SNPs on that level, as well as including cases where
the analysis isn't comprehensive enough to give a clear answer either way
(brown with question mark). Divided the rest of the I1 samples into I-Z2336
and downstream (red), I-Z58 and downstream (green), I-Z63 and downstream
(yellow) and blue for everything else (I-DF29 that don't fit into I-Z2336,
I-Z58, I-Z63; as well as I1 subclades that are negative for DF29).

The map can be found here 

Click on pins on the map to bring up a side window with more information - eg.
archaeological context, dating (radiocarbon if available), SNP calls from BAM
file, link to the relevant paper where the sample is described. Or click on
the sample name on the left hand list. Map currently has 131 ancient samples
and will be updated as new results come in.