|
Hi guys
I am interested in drinking water quality testing and most drinking water test kits are not accurate.
They give positive readings on concentrated samples like sewage and not for trace elements in drinking water.
So I wanted to try out this interesting Chinese? gadget.
Search you tube for..?Water Electrolyzer (Quality Tester). The Most Dangerous Appliance Ever?
Negative comments being dangerous? and a scam.
I checked it out
There are 2 pairs of electrodes
A shiny aluminium and a dull? iron pair.
Repeated usage caused the? iron to rust.
Aluminium was confirmed? by exclusion being shiny,light,cheap and nondescript.
My drinking water? sample is RO? waste water .
This discharged RO waste water is about 4 times more concentrated than my tap water depending on machine cycling.
Concentrated means more residue better than plain tap water for analysis.
My 14 in 1test kit was basically negative? for heavy metals.
I tested this RO concentrated with this Chinese toy.
It produced a brownish residue as expected.
Collected it and allowed it dry on cap and a tissue.
This cap/tissue was analyzed with Xrf with Am241/Si pin detector.
True enough like the you tubers described there is Fe from galvanic reactions.
There appears to be Pb peak as well
I need to repeat this test with a thicker sample? to confirm .
Taray
.
?
|
Great idea on the reverse-osmosis water discharge!
Test everything!
Here's another great idea for collecting samples from water, a paper by?
"A Sensitive XRF Screening Method for Lead in Drinking Water"
A novel method for quickly and quantitatively measuring aqueous lead in drinking water has been developed. A commercially available activated carbon felt has been found to effectively capture lead from tap water, and partnered with X-Ray fluorescence (XRF) spectrometry, it provides quantitative measurement of aqueous lead in drinking water. Specifically, for a 2-liter volume of tap water, the linear range of detection was found to be from 1 ¨C 150 ppb, encompassing the current EPA limit for lead in drinking water (15 ppb). To make a reproducible and easy to use method for filtering, a 2L bottle cap with a 1.25 cm diameter hole was used for filtering. Utilizing this filtration method, 75 solutions from 0 ppb to 150 ppb lead gave a 91% sensitivity, 97% specificity, and 93% accuracy and all the misclassified samples fell between 10 and 15 ppb. This method has also proved reliable for detecting calcium as well as several other divalent metals in drinking water including copper, zinc, iron, and manganese.
Note- She has tested all sorts of premade activated charcoal felt sheeting to find one that is inexpensive and yet performs very well for those heavy metals. I can send the paper by email but can't post it online. Geo
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 10:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I am interested in drinking water quality testing and most drinking water test kits are not accurate.
They give positive readings on concentrated samples like sewage and not for trace elements in drinking water.
So I wanted to try out this interesting Chinese? gadget.
Search you tube for..?Water Electrolyzer (Quality Tester). The Most Dangerous Appliance Ever?
Negative comments being dangerous? and a scam.
I checked it out
There are 2 pairs of electrodes
A shiny aluminium and a dull? iron pair.
Repeated usage caused the? iron to rust.
Aluminium was confirmed? by exclusion being shiny,light,cheap and nondescript.
My drinking water? sample is RO? waste water .
This discharged RO waste water is about 4 times more concentrated than my tap water depending on machine cycling.
Concentrated means more residue better than plain tap water for analysis.
My 14 in 1test kit was basically negative? for heavy metals.
I tested this RO concentrated with this Chinese toy.
It produced a brownish residue as expected.
Collected it and allowed it dry on cap and a tissue.
This cap/tissue was analyzed with Xrf with Am241/Si pin detector.
True enough like the you tubers described there is Fe from galvanic reactions.
There appears to be Pb peak as well
I need to repeat this test with a thicker sample? to confirm .
Taray
.
?
|
Geo The you tubers are overdoing it to score brownie points? Should do it for less than a min? Too long saturates iron residue diluting any other heavy metal present provided it is coming from the water My heading should have been tester not filter? The iron is the anode and aluminum cathode
Test everything! Yes I am gonna scan my??x-ray exciter tube I have a X ray generating tube with unknown anode material? Sort of like biting the hand that feeds you Taray
On Friday, October 30, 2020, 11:05 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: Great idea on the reverse-osmosis water discharge!
Test everything!
Here's another great idea for collecting samples from water, a paper by?
"A Sensitive XRF Screening Method for Lead in Drinking Water"
A novel method for quickly and quantitatively measuring aqueous lead in drinking water has been developed. A commercially available activated carbon felt has been found to effectively capture lead from tap water, and partnered with X-Ray fluorescence (XRF) spectrometry, it provides quantitative measurement of aqueous lead in drinking water. Specifically, for a 2-liter volume of tap water, the linear range of detection was found to be from 1 ¨C 150 ppb, encompassing the current EPA limit for lead in drinking water (15 ppb). To make a reproducible and easy to use method for filtering, a 2L bottle cap with a 1.25 cm diameter hole was used for filtering. Utilizing this filtration method, 75 solutions from 0 ppb to 150 ppb lead gave a 91% sensitivity, 97% specificity, and 93% accuracy and all the misclassified samples fell between 10 and 15 ppb. This method has also proved reliable for detecting calcium as well as several other divalent metals in drinking water including copper, zinc, iron, and manganese.
Note- She has tested all sorts of premade activated charcoal felt sheeting to find one that is inexpensive and yet performs very well for those heavy metals. I can send the paper by email but can't post it online. Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 10:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I am interested in drinking water quality testing and most drinking water test kits are not accurate.
They give positive readings on concentrated samples like sewage and not for trace elements in drinking water.
So I wanted to try out this interesting Chinese? gadget.
Search you tube for..?Water Electrolyzer (Quality Tester). The Most Dangerous Appliance Ever?
Negative comments being dangerous? and a scam.
I checked it out
There are 2 pairs of electrodes
A shiny aluminium and a dull? iron pair.
Repeated usage caused the? iron to rust.
Aluminium was confirmed? by exclusion being shiny,light,cheap and nondescript.
My drinking water? sample is RO? waste water .
This discharged RO waste water is about 4 times more concentrated than my tap water depending on machine cycling.
Concentrated means more residue better than plain tap water for analysis.
My 14 in 1test kit was basically negative? for heavy metals.
I tested this RO concentrated with this Chinese toy.
It produced a brownish residue as expected.
Collected it and allowed it dry on cap and a tissue.
This cap/tissue was analyzed with Xrf with Am241/Si pin detector.
True enough like the you tubers described there is Fe from galvanic reactions.
There appears to be Pb peak as well
I need to repeat this test with a thicker sample? to confirm .
Taray
.
?
|
" Test everything! Yes I am gonna scan my??x-ray exciter tube I have a X ray generating tube with unknown anode material? Sort of like biting the hand that feeds you Taray"
Easily done, it probably has an output window either beryllium, or some other, (even thinner glass bubble). XRF through that, get the rays back. Could be anything. W (tungsten) is best- and run it lower than the K edge so no W-XRF peak.
Used to be some electronics from Japan had semi-English instructions. One that was really comical under WARNIGS was "Do not eat the batteries"/
So for you WARNING- Unplug the X-Ray tube HV Power supply and discharge the HV with a clip lead.
A funny warning on my wife's sports car concerning the glass T- top, which is manually removed: _"Do not remove the moon roof while driving".
Geo
|
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
"Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water"
Hi Taray, a great application for the Si-PIN detector, thanks for setting up that experiment. Test everything! (you never know what you'll find) Geo
PS is Barium used in lab glass? I am testing a sample sealed in ampule, very clear 32.19 peak, can't imagine it being in the actual sample, but maybe so......
G
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:23:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Taray, send CAL data please picture of CAL or just the two channel/energy point #s.
Geo
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:23:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Barium is used to make X-ray shielding walls,gut radiological procedures like barium enema??and phosphor Some glasses contain barytes
On Sunday, November 1, 2020, 9:40 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: "Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water"
Hi Taray, a great application for the Si-PIN detector, thanks for setting up that experiment. Test everything! (you never know what you'll find) Geo
PS is Barium used in lab glass? I am testing a sample sealed in ampule, very clear 32.19 peak, can't imagine it being in the actual sample, but maybe so......
G
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:23:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Can you send short only -Am looking at the sensor scan? 60 seconds.mca please?
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:23:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Geo
I think it is Bi 10.84 and Am 59.5
Taray
On Sunday, November 1, 2020, 9:54 PM, taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> wrote:
Barium is used to make X-ray shielding walls,gut radiological procedures like barium enema??and phosphor Some glasses contain barytes Taray On Sunday, November 1, 2020, 9:40 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: "Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water"
Hi Taray, a great application for the Si-PIN detector, thanks for setting up that experiment. Test everything! (you never know what you'll find) Geo
PS is Barium used in lab glass? I am testing a sample sealed in ampule, very clear 32.19 peak, can't imagine it being in the actual sample, but maybe so......
G
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:23:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
"Barium is used to make X-ray shielding walls,gut radiological procedures like barium enema??and phosphor Some glasses contain barytes Taray
On Sunday, November 1, 2020, 9:40 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: "Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water""
Thanks makes sense, this sample is powder and heat sealed inside, so have to do it through the glass. Same material (I am told, don't know 100%) in plastic test tube shows no 32keV....
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:54:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Barium is used to make X-ray shielding walls,gut radiological procedures like barium enema??and phosphor Some glasses contain barytes Taray On Sunday, November 1, 2020, 9:40 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: "Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water"
Hi Taray, a great application for the Si-PIN detector, thanks for setting up that experiment. Test everything! (you never know what you'll find) Geo
PS is Barium used in lab glass? I am testing a sample sealed in ampule, very clear 32.19 peak, can't imagine it being in the actual sample, but maybe so......
G
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:23:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
2 minutes, easy superimpose.= 
|
Geo It appears to need overlapping data files? I will check it ?when free
Regarding calibration data ,you can get by?opening mca file with notepad . If you continue scrolling below <data> ,lots of numbers in single rows Continue downwards full config data
On Sunday, November 1, 2020, 10:23 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: 2 minutes, easy superimpose.= 
|
Taray,
These
calibrates are not right for this run. Did you re cal when changing anything?
Dud
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of taray singh via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 6:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
?
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter
paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for
electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Looks like Taray calibrated with Bi XRF and 59.5 Gamma Ray then did this run. The low energies seem exact to me Dud. I don't know what the thing at ~49 is tho.
Geo
----- Original Message ----- From: Dude <dfemer@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 15:11:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Taray, These
calibrates are not right for this run. Did you re cal when changing anything? Dud ? ? Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter
paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for
electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
I
can¡¯t match anything except the low fe
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of GEOelectronics@...
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 2:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
?
Looks
like Taray calibrated with Bi XRF and 59.5 Gamma Ray then did this run.
The
low energies seem exact to me Dud. I don't know what the thing at ~49 is tho.
-----
Original Message -----
From: Dude <dfemer@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 15:11:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
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Taray,
These
calibrates are not right for this run. Did you re cal when changing anything?
Dud
?
?
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter
paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for
electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Dud I have no access to the mca at this moment? So I cannot check I will review?the mca tomorrow? I did cal with Bi and 59.5 with 2048 Cal details are in the mca using notepad But I do admit on connecting the x axis range into 700 kev when the actual scale is less On starting acquisition it drops to 80 kev? I dunno why? But looking at all my results so far my calibration tallies
But if you look at the pics the Pb peaks are visible ?and not seen in the control I will send?Geo my Am241 spectrum tomorrow for review? Taray
On Monday, November 2, 2020, 6:09 AM, Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
I
can¡¯t match anything except the low fe
?
?
Looks
like Taray calibrated with Bi XRF and 59.5 Gamma Ray then did this run.
The
low energies seem exact to me Dud. I don't know what the thing at ~49 is tho.
-----
Original Message -----
From: Dude <dfemer@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 15:11:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
margin: 0.0in;
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Taray,
These
calibrates are not right for this run. Did you re cal when changing anything?
Dud
?
?
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter
paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for
electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Geo
Here is the Am 241 spectrum with the same settings.
Sorry for the delay.
As for scale error above I misquoted being way from my pc,
On starting Dppmca? ,calibrating? and connecting to si pin,the scale box upper? range is about 700 with spectrum about 80.
Not the other way round
That seems odd.
But on actually starting acquisition, everything normalizes.
Like I told you before I am unable to save calibration despite following the usual way
Always have to? recalibrate? playing with lifedata files on starting
Getting used to the routine
Not an issue.
Anyway let me know what you think about the RO sample
Thanks
Taray
|
Good. No problems, I enjoy this 100%.
It's good to have a collleague.
FIRST- Calibration looks fine.
Second- would you like to increase the gain and move the 50.54 peak off to near the right side? This allows lower peaks to spread out better. My top range is ~ 62.5
George?
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 05:52:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Geo
Here is the Am 241 spectrum with the same settings.
Sorry for the delay.
As for scale error above I misquoted being way from my pc,
On starting Dppmca? ,calibrating? and connecting to si pin,the scale box upper? range is about 700 with spectrum about 80.
Not the other way round
That seems odd.
But on actually starting acquisition, everything normalizes.
Like I told you before I am unable to save calibration despite following the usual way
Always have to? recalibrate? playing with lifedata files on starting
Getting used to the routine
Not an issue.
Anyway let me know what you think about the RO sample
Thanks
Taray
|
Geo I actually tried moving the fine gain after initial coarse settings? Each time I move to the extreme?right,the scale reverts back to left.It was difficult to assess the movement of channel peaks accurately. So I arbitrarily stop somewhere and ended at 80. So I was thinking my 2048 was limiting the spread. Since you could?do it means I must have gone wrong somewhere? This I have to investigate . Now since my my calib is intact,is there lead peaks present in my RO discharge .? If not I need to repeat with lots of water to collect a centrifugal sample concentrate. And spread it out under a sample cup like my selenium sulphide. Taray
On Tuesday, November 3, 2020, 11:12 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: Good. No problems, I enjoy this 100%.
It's good to have a collleague.
FIRST- Calibration looks fine.
Second- would you like to increase the gain and move the 50.54 peak off to near the right side? This allows lower peaks to spread out better. My top range is ~ 62.5
George?
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 05:52:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Geo
Here is the Am 241 spectrum with the same settings.
Sorry for the delay.
As for scale error above I misquoted being way from my pc,
On starting Dppmca? ,calibrating? and connecting to si pin,the scale box upper? range is about 700 with spectrum about 80.
Not the other way round
That seems odd.
But on actually starting acquisition, everything normalizes.
Like I told you before I am unable to save calibration despite following the usual way
Always have to? recalibrate? playing with lifedata files on starting
Getting used to the routine
Not an issue.
Anyway let me know what you think about the RO sample
Thanks
Taray
|
