Re: Phosphorescent Calcite
Subject:? Natural occurring Fluorite Activator to Fl:? Europium Question 1:? Is the amateur XRF setup capable of determining the presence / absence of Europium in fluorite? Question 2:? If so, can the amateur XRF setup determine quantitatively (within reason) whether the amount of Eu determines the level of Fl of any given specimen?
Just curious - what other excuse could I offer as not all fluorite fluoresces.?
Dave - W?LEV
On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 9:07 PM Ken Sejkora < kjsejkora@...> wrote: I¡¯m really enjoying all of the discussion about analyzing various materials with XRF.? I¡¯m quite impressed with the resolution and detail that some of you are obtaining using your ¡®amateur¡¯ in-home laboratories.??? I use the term ¡°amateur¡± lightly ¨C you put the efforts of my past experience in a chemistry laboratory at a nuclear power plant to shame.? Granted, our objective was to analyze for very specific elements of interest, primarily zinc and cobalt, and maybe iron and chromium as well.? We had our XRF set up in a very simplistic manner of push-button, get-banana.? We never strayed from any elements outside of an atomic number Z-range of 24 to 30. ? Anyway, back to my main point of discussion.? I¡¯ve always been a rockhound, and can¡¯t resist picking up something of interest.? Last year I snagged a couple of pieces of some greenish-gray cobble stone that had some white veins of calcite running through it.? On a lark, when it got dark, I shined my Convoy S2+ UV-LED flashlight on the stone.? I wasn¡¯t surprised to see some red fluorescence in the calcite, but was surprised by a relatively bright red phosphorescence that lasted for a few tenths of a second.? What I found even more perplexing is that this phenomenon only seemed to be evident when the stone was illuminated with the Convoy UV flashlight.? I tried getting fluorescence excitation with a combination longwave-shortwave Model UVSL-15 Mineralight (longwave 365 nm, shortwave 254 nm) as well as a dedicated longwave Model UVL-56 Blak-Ray lamp (366 nm).? ?Surprisingly, I didn¡¯t get any appreciable fluorescence, and no phosphorescence, from either of these mercury-vapor based lamps.? Only the LED-based flashlight seemed to elicit the phosphorescence. ? Now for my question:? Would any of you fine gentlemen want to exercise the quest for knowledge to analyze some of this mystery calcite for trace element content to ascertain what might be leading to the phosphorescence?? Being calcite, one would expect Calcium, Sulphur, and Oxygen, but there must be some trace element (rare earth??) that is contributing to the fluorescence and/or phosphorescence?? I went back to the parking lot where the crushed cobble had been placed, and maybe only about a quarter of the cobbles I collected exhibited fluorescence/phosphorescence.? I was able to find several chunks of the ¡®pure¡¯ calcite (no green-gray matrix), and it too showed about a 25% to 30% of the number of pieces exhibiting fluorescence.? All of the stone looked similar and probably came form the same quarry, but only a fraction of it showed any fluorescence/phosphorescence. ? Any takers?? I¡¯d be happy to drop a chunk or two of the ¡°mystery¡± calcite in the mail to anyone who might want to take a crack at running an XRF to look for anything unusual.? Drop me an email if you¡¯re interested. ? Thanks, and keep up the great work! ? Ken Sejkora, WB0OCV East Falmouth, MA Email: kjsejkora@... ?
-- Dave - W?LEV
Just Let Darwin Work
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Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Geo
My biggest Pb surprise was black rubber automobile and garden hose. No idea why it's there but unmistakable....
Remember telling me about rubber automobile before. Couldn¡¯t figure out where to find one really.. Interesting.., Do you mean a new ?or used one.? Perhaps it has something to do with vulcanization of rubber? Meanwhile will check out my garden hose Taray
On Monday, November 9, 2020, 10:49 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: Good work Taray.
Geo
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 7:48:13 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Charles Next time if I am forced to use a plastic container for my XRF,I gonna opt for clear plastic ones Taray On Monday, November 9, 2020, 9:24 PM, Charles David Young <charlesdavidyoung@...> wrote: Hi Taray,
I was scanning a specimen that I had lazily left on its black plastic mount.? I was seeing a clear Br peak but was told (I believe by Steve Dubyk) that this was not likely.? With a little googling I saw that Br is a common fire retardant in plastic.
I had not realized that Pb is also common in plastic.? That is good to know as well.
Charles
Hi guys
Repeated this test with different sample setups.
MCA 's are for
Residue paper only ...dried
Residue paper with cap
Sample cap with residue paper
Clean sample paper only
Clean sample cap .
The results show
Most of scattering is from the cap
The "Pb" peaks were coming from the cap
The Fe peak is coming from the residue paper
I also put in a file about recycling plastics and heavy metals
As a whole ,I improved my settings and hope to improve further.
Will continue other testing methods.
Thanks
Taray
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Re: Phosphorescent Calcite
Dud, are all these wavelength shifts happening for the same reason as XRF but at longer wavelengths and instead of inner orbitals, use the outer orbitals, or is it a crystal thing (or both). Either way it is an electron thing correct?
Geo
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Re: Chinese water filter analysis
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Show quoted text
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 7:48:13 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Charles Next time if I am forced to use a plastic container for my XRF,I gonna opt for clear plastic ones Taray On Monday, November 9, 2020, 9:24 PM, Charles David Young <charlesdavidyoung@...> wrote: Hi Taray,
I was scanning a specimen that I had lazily left on its black plastic mount.? I was seeing a clear Br peak but was told (I believe by Steve Dubyk) that this was not likely.? With a little googling I saw that Br is a common fire retardant in plastic.
I had not realized that Pb is also common in plastic.? That is good to know as well.
Charles
Hi guys
Repeated this test with different sample setups.
MCA 's are for
Residue paper only ...dried
Residue paper with cap
Sample cap with residue paper
Clean sample paper only
Clean sample cap .
The results show
Most of scattering is from the cap
The "Pb" peaks were coming from the cap
The Fe peak is coming from the residue paper
I also put in a file about recycling plastics and heavy metals
As a whole ,I improved my settings and hope to improve further.
Will continue other testing methods.
Thanks
Taray
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
" With a little googling I saw that Br is a common fire retardant in plastic.
I had not realized that Pb is also common in plastic.? That is good to know as well.
Charles
"
Trst everything. My lazy story is plastic baggies with samples inside. Easy to XRF though etc. Well I was chasing a strong Chlorine peak for a long time- sometimes there, sometimes not. Wound up being one particular brand of generis transparent baggies. Must have been PVC based?
PS The Bromine element in my XRF article is a bare (no copper) PCB. FR4 is Fire-Retardant, and is loaded with bromine to make it that way. Childrens pajamas too supposedly.
My biggest Pb surprise was black rubber automobile and garden hose. No idea why it's there but unmistakable.
And one more anecdote- a very common high school gamma Ray scattering demonstration experiment involves a radioactive source, a lead shield, a water glass and a Geiger counter. The source is placed next to the glass, in which is a small lead shield in the center. On the other side of the glass is the Geiger Counter. Arrange the shield so there are no counts from the source. Now fill the glass with water. The Geiger Counter goes nuts as Compton scattering finds a path in the water around the shield. Very dramatic. Some of t his may actually be Bragg scattering (more like "reflection"), as there are now X-Ray "lenses" that can actually focus X-Rays into a tight spot at a distance from the source, using micro sized capillary tubing using internal Bragg scattering.? A? very interesting technology and when it becomes available will be a real boon to XRF work.
Geo
From: "Charles David Young" <charlesdavidyoung@...> To: "XRF" < [email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 7:24:25 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi Taray, I was scanning a specimen that I had lazily left on its black plastic mount.? I was seeing a clear Br peak but was told (I believe by Steve Dubyk) that this was not likely.? With a little googling I saw that Br is a common fire retardant in plastic. I had not realized that Pb is also common in plastic.? That is good to know as well. Charles
Hi guys
Repeated this test with different sample setups.
MCA 's are for
Residue paper only ...dried
Residue paper with cap
Sample cap with residue paper
Clean sample paper only
Clean sample cap .
The results show
Most of scattering is from the cap
The "Pb" peaks were coming from the cap
The Fe peak is coming from the residue paper
I also put in a file about recycling plastics and heavy metals
As a whole ,I improved my settings and hope to improve further.
Will continue other testing methods.
Thanks
Taray
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Charles Next time if I am forced to use a plastic container for my XRF,I gonna opt for clear plastic ones Taray
On Monday, November 9, 2020, 9:24 PM, Charles David Young <charlesdavidyoung@...> wrote: Hi Taray,
I was scanning a specimen that I had lazily left on its black plastic mount.? I was seeing a clear Br peak but was told (I believe by Steve Dubyk) that this was not likely.? With a little googling I saw that Br is a common fire retardant in plastic.
I had not realized that Pb is also common in plastic.? That is good to know as well.
Charles
Hi guys
Repeated this test with different sample setups.
MCA 's are for
Residue paper only ...dried
Residue paper with cap
Sample cap with residue paper
Clean sample paper only
Clean sample cap .
The results show
Most of scattering is from the cap
The "Pb" peaks were coming from the cap
The Fe peak is coming from the residue paper
I also put in a file about recycling plastics and heavy metals
As a whole ,I improved my settings and hope to improve further.
Will continue other testing methods.
Thanks
Taray
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Hi Taray,
I was scanning a specimen that I had lazily left on its black plastic mount.? I was seeing a clear Br peak but was told (I believe by Steve Dubyk) that this was not likely.? With a little googling I saw that Br is a common fire retardant in plastic.
I had not realized that Pb is also common in plastic.? That is good to know as well.
Charles
Hi guys
Repeated this test with different sample setups.
MCA 's are for
Residue paper only ...dried
Residue paper with cap
Sample cap with residue paper
Clean sample paper only
Clean sample cap .
The results show
Most of scattering is from the cap
The "Pb" peaks were coming from the cap
The Fe peak is coming from the residue paper
I also put in a file about recycling plastics and heavy metals
As a whole ,I improved my settings and hope to improve further.
Will continue other testing methods.
Thanks
Taray
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
Repeated this test with different sample setups.
MCA 's are for
Residue paper only ...dried
Residue paper with cap
Sample cap with residue paper
Clean sample paper only
Clean sample cap .
The results show
Most of scattering is from the cap
The "Pb" peaks were coming from the cap
The Fe peak is coming from the residue paper
I also put in a file about recycling plastics and heavy metals
As a whole ,I improved my settings and hope to improve further.
Will continue other testing methods.
Thanks
Taray
|
Re: Phosphorescent Calcite
Thanks Dud.? I¡¯ll have to take some time to digest this.? Hitting the road now for New Hamster. ? 73 --? Ken ?
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From: DudeSent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 02:17 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [XRF] Phosphorescent Calcite ? Ken, Attached are some spectra from a cheap 405nm laser pointer and a 532 green. The 405nm ?lasers are direct lasers using a Gallium Nitride media and aren¡¯t frequency doubled. The 532 nm laser pointers uses a 808 nm IR pump into a Nd:YAG crystal to get 1064nm IR output which then goes into a KTP crystal that produces the 532nm green output. Some people can get confused when looking at raw spectra and don¡¯t take into account second order grading effects and report other IR peaks. Note in the 405nm 2d order picture the peak at 817.51 nm which is a 2d order ?effect where the grating allows leakage from the primary signal at a twice the wavelength (408.75 *2 = 817.50nm). I am not running a 2d order blocking filter on these spectra so you see bleed through but at a much reduced intensity. The 532 spectra show the 808nm pump but not the 1064nm due to the limited range of the spectrometer. Both 1064 and 808nm IR are making it through at a reduced power but some pointers don¡¯t have IR blocking filters on the output and have hazardous levels of IR that you can¡¯t see. Dud ? ? Thanks Geo.? Yes, Dud offered to run an analysis, so I¡¯ll be dropping a sample in the mail to him so he can run an analysis.? He also mentioned checking the sample with a 405 nm laser pointer.? I did that last year when I first collected the samples, and did indeed see a similar response of both fluorescence and phosphorescence.? I¡¯d be interested to see a spectrogram of a typical 405 nm laser diode to see where its UV peaks come in.? I know many laser diodes actually produce their primary output in the infrared region, and they use a frequency-doubling ¡®filter¡¯ to ¡°boost¡± the response into the visible range.? Therefore, I can understand that a 405 nm laser diode is probably producing its primary emission at 810 nm, which would be in the infrared region and ?¡®invisible¡¯ to the naked eye.? I don¡¯t know if there is frequency tripling going on to produce a 270 nm peak, or if perhaps the ¡°blue¡± 405 nm laser diode is producing another longer wavelength peak that is being frequency-shifted into the UV region. ? Nope, never did venture into the ¡°flame speaker¡± realm.? Sounds very interesting.? What was the ¡®fuel¡¯ for the flame? Was it something like methane or propane, spiked with an aerosol of metal salts?? Or was the flame actually a plasma of ionized air or some other inert gas?? Yeah, the old days of ham radio with big iron, kilovolts, and vacuum tubes like the 807.? The noobs don¡¯t know what they were/are missing. ? Thanks for the comments, Geo.? Another member of the group, Charles Young, also offered to run an XRF analysis.? Perhaps when all is said and done, both will share their results with the group. ? 73 Geo. ? Ken, WB0OCV ? ? ? Interesting Ken. Probably Dud's setup is the best for the light elements- but strontium is easy to do on an amateur rig, so I'll ask Nick what chemicals make red colors in fireworks. Which reminds me Ken, did you ever build a flame speaker? I set one up once and it was amazing. Shoot a flame between two metal screens, are biased with HV, and modulate that HV. The flame itself is spiked with a chemical salt that ionizes and is modulated in the air to create the sound. The Germans invented it, and claim almost unlimited high notes. This was long ago when ham radio was mostly still AM and every ham had HV and modulators galore. ?
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Re: Phosphorescent Calcite
Ken,
Attached are some spectra from a cheap 405nm laser pointer and a
532 green. The 405nm ?lasers are direct lasers using a Gallium Nitride media
and aren¡¯t frequency doubled. The 532 nm laser pointers uses a 808 nm IR pump into
a Nd:YAG crystal to get 1064nm IR output which then goes into a KTP crystal
that produces the 532nm green output.
Some people can get confused when looking at raw spectra and don¡¯t
take into account second order grading effects and report other IR peaks. Note
in the 405nm 2d order picture the peak at 817.51 nm which is a 2d order ?effect
where the grating allows leakage from the primary signal at a twice the
wavelength (408.75 *2 = 817.50nm). I am not running a 2d order blocking filter
on these spectra so you see bleed through but at a much reduced intensity. The
532 spectra show the 808nm pump but not the 1064nm due to the limited range of
the spectrometer. Both 1064 and 808nm IR are making it through at a reduced
power but some pointers don¡¯t have IR blocking filters on the output and have hazardous
levels of IR that you can¡¯t see.
Dud
?
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From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Sejkora
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 5:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [XRF] Phosphorescent Calcite
?
Thanks Geo.? Yes, Dud offered to run an analysis, so
I¡¯ll be dropping a sample in the mail to him so he can run an analysis.?
He also mentioned checking the sample with a 405 nm laser pointer.? I did
that last year when I first collected the samples, and did indeed see a similar
response of both fluorescence and phosphorescence.? I¡¯d be interested to
see a spectrogram of a typical 405 nm laser diode to see where its UV peaks
come in.? I know many laser diodes actually produce their primary output
in the infrared region, and they use a frequency-doubling ¡®filter¡¯ to ¡°boost¡±
the response into the visible range.? Therefore, I can understand that a
405 nm laser diode is probably producing its primary emission at 810 nm, which
would be in the infrared region and ?¡®invisible¡¯ to the naked eye.? I
don¡¯t know if there is frequency tripling going on to produce a 270 nm peak, or
if perhaps the ¡°blue¡± 405 nm laser diode is producing another longer wavelength
peak that is being frequency-shifted into the UV region.
?
Nope, never did venture into the ¡°flame speaker¡±
realm.? Sounds very interesting.? What was the ¡®fuel¡¯ for the flame?
Was it something like methane or propane, spiked with an aerosol of metal
salts?? Or was the flame actually a plasma of ionized air or some other
inert gas?? Yeah, the old days of ham radio with big iron, kilovolts, and
vacuum tubes like the 807.? The noobs don¡¯t know what they were/are
missing.
?
Thanks for the comments, Geo.? Another member of the
group, Charles Young, also offered to run an XRF analysis.? Perhaps when
all is said and done, both will share their results with the group.
?
73 Geo.
?
Ken, WB0OCV
?
?
?
Interesting Ken. Probably Dud's setup is the best for the light
elements- but strontium is easy to do on an amateur rig, so I'll ask Nick what
chemicals make red colors in fireworks.
Which reminds me Ken, did you ever build a flame speaker? I set
one up once and it was amazing. Shoot a flame between two metal screens, are
biased with HV, and modulate that HV. The flame itself is spiked with a
chemical salt that ionizes and is modulated in the air to create the sound. The
Germans invented it, and claim almost unlimited high notes. This was long ago
when ham radio was mostly still AM and every ham had HV and modulators galore.
?
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Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Geo My first 2 test on the control ?sample was dry paper. Only this last control?was wet ?to make it??more like ?the sample All 3 show similar graphics? Residue is wet in all 3? Prefer it wet so it sticks to the cap somewhat . When dealing with a precipitate in a chemical reaction,the drawback is sample collection and preparation for xrf The sample size is small? I centrifuge and proceed? I need a ?filter paper?base to absorb the sample and increase the surface area. With experience setup will improve? All metals show little scatter? Some organics??show lots of scatter esp cellulose Taray
On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 11:05 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: OK. One more test- use dry filter nothing on it ever. When you can. Then we can see where the scatter is coming from. Does this setup get that same scatter on regular testing of samples? Such as stones or metal?
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 8:29:02 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Both samples have water squeezed out? Yes they are on the wet side On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 10:23 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: OK Taray. Is there actual water or is the sample dried? It should be dried.
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 6:21:32 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Geo The bg is using Am241 exciter with no sample in front. The control is just plain filter paper soaked with RO water pressed against a plastic cap I know it quite confusing? Feel free to ask any questions Taray On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 7:58 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: Wow, that background count looks good Taray.? Is there an .mca with exciter and no target? Please tell me again the conditions for "control sample water"?
Geo
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 12:43:18 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis Hi guys
This is my latest update
The pics are self explanatory
The electrodes are screw in type and water level only covered the lower 2 thirds
No adjoining surface is in contact.
More importantly the electrodes seems clear of lead impurities.
Anyway this can be an interesting home study
Study of heavy metals in domestic tap water with xrf
Other methods are using activated charcoal or coffee ground
Coffee is readily available and has good absorption characteristics.
My next project will be coffee ground which is easy to sample
You don't need RO water.
Just collect early morning first flush tap water in some coffee ground
Dry into a cake and scan
Repeat several times if necessary to get the right concentration.
Taray
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Re: Chinese water filter analysis
PS I just looked at your ZAG.mca- no scatter at all- same setup?
Geo
From: GEOelectronics@... To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 9:05:41 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
OK. One more test- use dry filter nothing on it ever. When you can. Then we can see where the scatter is coming from. Does this setup get that same scatter on regular testing of samples? Such as stones or metal?
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 8:29:02 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Both samples have water squeezed out? Yes they are on the wet side On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 10:23 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: OK Taray. Is there actual water or is the sample dried? It should be dried.
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 6:21:32 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Geo The bg is using Am241 exciter with no sample in front. The control is just plain filter paper soaked with RO water pressed against a plastic cap I know it quite confusing? Feel free to ask any questions Taray On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 7:58 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: Wow, that background count looks good Taray.? Is there an .mca with exciter and no target? Please tell me again the conditions for "control sample water"?
Geo
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 12:43:18 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis Hi guys
This is my latest update
The pics are self explanatory
The electrodes are screw in type and water level only covered the lower 2 thirds
No adjoining surface is in contact.
More importantly the electrodes seems clear of lead impurities.
Anyway this can be an interesting home study
Study of heavy metals in domestic tap water with xrf
Other methods are using activated charcoal or coffee ground
Coffee is readily available and has good absorption characteristics.
My next project will be coffee ground which is easy to sample
You don't need RO water.
Just collect early morning first flush tap water in some coffee ground
Dry into a cake and scan
Repeat several times if necessary to get the right concentration.
Taray
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
OK. One more test- use dry filter nothing on it ever. When you can. Then we can see where the scatter is coming from. Does this setup get that same scatter on regular testing of samples? Such as stones or metal?
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 8:29:02 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Both samples have water squeezed out? Yes they are on the wet side On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 10:23 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: OK Taray. Is there actual water or is the sample dried? It should be dried.
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 6:21:32 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Geo The bg is using Am241 exciter with no sample in front. The control is just plain filter paper soaked with RO water pressed against a plastic cap I know it quite confusing? Feel free to ask any questions Taray On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 7:58 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: Wow, that background count looks good Taray.? Is there an .mca with exciter and no target? Please tell me again the conditions for "control sample water"?
Geo
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 12:43:18 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis Hi guys
This is my latest update
The pics are self explanatory
The electrodes are screw in type and water level only covered the lower 2 thirds
No adjoining surface is in contact.
More importantly the electrodes seems clear of lead impurities.
Anyway this can be an interesting home study
Study of heavy metals in domestic tap water with xrf
Other methods are using activated charcoal or coffee ground
Coffee is readily available and has good absorption characteristics.
My next project will be coffee ground which is easy to sample
You don't need RO water.
Just collect early morning first flush tap water in some coffee ground
Dry into a cake and scan
Repeat several times if necessary to get the right concentration.
Taray
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Both samples have water squeezed out? Yes they are on the wet side
On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 10:23 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: OK Taray. Is there actual water or is the sample dried? It should be dried.
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 6:21:32 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Geo The bg is using Am241 exciter with no sample in front. The control is just plain filter paper soaked with RO water pressed against a plastic cap I know it quite confusing? Feel free to ask any questions Taray On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 7:58 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: Wow, that background count looks good Taray.? Is there an .mca with exciter and no target? Please tell me again the conditions for "control sample water"?
Geo
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 12:43:18 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis Hi guys
This is my latest update
The pics are self explanatory
The electrodes are screw in type and water level only covered the lower 2 thirds
No adjoining surface is in contact.
More importantly the electrodes seems clear of lead impurities.
Anyway this can be an interesting home study
Study of heavy metals in domestic tap water with xrf
Other methods are using activated charcoal or coffee ground
Coffee is readily available and has good absorption characteristics.
My next project will be coffee ground which is easy to sample
You don't need RO water.
Just collect early morning first flush tap water in some coffee ground
Dry into a cake and scan
Repeat several times if necessary to get the right concentration.
Taray
|
Re: Phosphorescent Calcite
Fuel I used was propane torch.
From: "Ken Sejkora" <kjsejkora@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 6:51:49 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Phosphorescent Calcite
Thanks Geo.? Yes, Dud offered to run an analysis, so I¡¯ll be dropping a sample in the mail to him so he can run an analysis.? He also mentioned checking the sample with a 405 nm laser pointer.? I did that last year when I first collected the samples, and did indeed see a similar response of both fluorescence and phosphorescence.? I¡¯d be interested to see a spectrogram of a typical 405 nm laser diode to see where its UV peaks come in.? I know many laser diodes actually produce their primary output in the infrared region, and they use a frequency-doubling ¡®filter¡¯ to ¡°boost¡± the response into the visible range.? Therefore, I can understand that a 405 nm laser diode is probably producing its primary emission at 810 nm, which would be in the infrared region and ?¡®invisible¡¯ to the naked eye.? I don¡¯t know if there is frequency tripling going on to produce a 270 nm peak, or if perhaps the ¡°blue¡± 405 nm laser diode is producing another longer wavelength peak that is being frequency-shifted into the UV region. ? Nope, never did venture into the ¡°flame speaker¡± realm.? Sounds very interesting.? What was the ¡®fuel¡¯ for the flame? Was it something like methane or propane, spiked with an aerosol of metal salts?? Or was the flame actually a plasma of ionized air or some other inert gas?? Yeah, the old days of ham radio with big iron, kilovolts, and vacuum tubes like the 807.? The noobs don¡¯t know what they were/are missing. ? Thanks for the comments, Geo.? Another member of the group, Charles Young, also offered to run an XRF analysis.? Perhaps when all is said and done, both will share their results with the group. ? 73 Geo. ? Ken, WB0OCV ? ? ? Interesting Ken. Probably Dud's setup is the best for the light elements- but strontium is easy to do on an amateur rig, so I'll ask Nick what chemicals make red colors in fireworks. Which reminds me Ken, did you ever build a flame speaker? I set one up once and it was amazing. Shoot a flame between two metal screens, are biased with HV, and modulate that HV. The flame itself is spiked with a chemical salt that ionizes and is modulated in the air to create the sound. The Germans invented it, and claim almost unlimited high notes. This was long ago when ham radio was mostly still AM and every ham had HV and modulators galore. ?
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
OK Taray. Is there actual water or is the sample dried? It should be dried.
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 6:21:32 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Geo The bg is using Am241 exciter with no sample in front. The control is just plain filter paper soaked with RO water pressed against a plastic cap I know it quite confusing? Feel free to ask any questions Taray On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 7:58 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: Wow, that background count looks good Taray.? Is there an .mca with exciter and no target? Please tell me again the conditions for "control sample water"?
Geo
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 12:43:18 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis Hi guys
This is my latest update
The pics are self explanatory
The electrodes are screw in type and water level only covered the lower 2 thirds
No adjoining surface is in contact.
More importantly the electrodes seems clear of lead impurities.
Anyway this can be an interesting home study
Study of heavy metals in domestic tap water with xrf
Other methods are using activated charcoal or coffee ground
Coffee is readily available and has good absorption characteristics.
My next project will be coffee ground which is easy to sample
You don't need RO water.
Just collect early morning first flush tap water in some coffee ground
Dry into a cake and scan
Repeat several times if necessary to get the right concentration.
Taray
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Re: Phosphorescent Calcite
Thanks Geo.? Yes, Dud offered to run an analysis, so I¡¯ll be dropping a sample in the mail to him so he can run an analysis.? He also mentioned checking the sample with a 405 nm laser pointer.? I did that last year when I first collected the samples, and did indeed see a similar response of both fluorescence and phosphorescence.? I¡¯d be interested to see a spectrogram of a typical 405 nm laser diode to see where its UV peaks come in.? I know many laser diodes actually produce their primary output in the infrared region, and they use a frequency-doubling ¡®filter¡¯ to ¡°boost¡± the response into the visible range.? Therefore, I can understand that a 405 nm laser diode is probably producing its primary emission at 810 nm, which would be in the infrared region and ?¡®invisible¡¯ to the naked eye.? I don¡¯t know if there is frequency tripling going on to produce a 270 nm peak, or if perhaps the ¡°blue¡± 405 nm laser diode is producing another longer wavelength peak that is being frequency-shifted into the UV region. ? Nope, never did venture into the ¡°flame speaker¡± realm.? Sounds very interesting.? What was the ¡®fuel¡¯ for the flame? Was it something like methane or propane, spiked with an aerosol of metal salts?? Or was the flame actually a plasma of ionized air or some other inert gas?? Yeah, the old days of ham radio with big iron, kilovolts, and vacuum tubes like the 807.? The noobs don¡¯t know what they were/are missing. ? Thanks for the comments, Geo.? Another member of the group, Charles Young, also offered to run an XRF analysis.? Perhaps when all is said and done, both will share their results with the group. ? 73 Geo. ? Ken, WB0OCV ? ?
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From: GEOelectronics@...Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2020 04:45 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [XRF] Phosphorescent Calcite ? Interesting Ken. Probably Dud's setup is the best for the light elements- but strontium is easy to do on an amateur rig, so I'll ask Nick what chemicals make red colors in fireworks. Which reminds me Ken, did you ever build a flame speaker? I set one up once and it was amazing. Shoot a flame between two metal screens, are biased with HV, and modulate that HV. The flame itself is spiked with a chemical salt that ionizes and is modulated in the air to create the sound. The Germans invented it, and claim almost unlimited high notes. This was long ago when ham radio was mostly still AM and every ham had HV and modulators galore. ?
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Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Geo The bg is using Am241 exciter with no sample in front. The control is just plain filter paper soaked with RO water pressed against a plastic cap I know it quite confusing? Feel free to ask any questions
On Sunday, November 8, 2020, 7:58 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: Wow, that background count looks good Taray.? Is there an .mca with exciter and no target? Please tell me again the conditions for "control sample water"?
Geo
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 12:43:18 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis Hi guys
This is my latest update
The pics are self explanatory
The electrodes are screw in type and water level only covered the lower 2 thirds
No adjoining surface is in contact.
More importantly the electrodes seems clear of lead impurities.
Anyway this can be an interesting home study
Study of heavy metals in domestic tap water with xrf
Other methods are using activated charcoal or coffee ground
Coffee is readily available and has good absorption characteristics.
My next project will be coffee ground which is easy to sample
You don't need RO water.
Just collect early morning first flush tap water in some coffee ground
Dry into a cake and scan
Repeat several times if necessary to get the right concentration.
Taray
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Wow, that background count looks good Taray.? Is there an .mca with exciter and no target? Please tell me again the conditions for "control sample water"?
Geo
From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 12:43:18 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis Hi guys
This is my latest update
The pics are self explanatory
The electrodes are screw in type and water level only covered the lower 2 thirds
No adjoining surface is in contact.
More importantly the electrodes seems clear of lead impurities.
Anyway this can be an interesting home study
Study of heavy metals in domestic tap water with xrf
Other methods are using activated charcoal or coffee ground
Coffee is readily available and has good absorption characteristics.
My next project will be coffee ground which is easy to sample
You don't need RO water.
Just collect early morning first flush tap water in some coffee ground
Dry into a cake and scan
Repeat several times if necessary to get the right concentration.
Taray
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
This is my latest update
The pics are self explanatory
The electrodes are screw in type and water level only covered the lower 2 thirds
No adjoining surface is in contact.
More importantly the electrodes seems clear of lead impurities.
Anyway this can be an interesting home study
Study of heavy metals in domestic tap water with xrf
Other methods are using activated charcoal or coffee ground
Coffee is readily available and has good absorption characteristics.
My next project will be coffee ground which is easy to sample
You don't need RO water.
Just collect early morning first flush tap water in some coffee ground
Dry into a cake and scan
Repeat several times if necessary to get the right concentration.
Taray
|
