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XRF Wiki
Welcome to the XRF Wiki. This Wiki is a repository of information contributed by members of [email protected]. Members can view and edit the pages. The pages are currently not viewable by the public. The pages below represent a rough overview of the technology and techniques associated with X-Ray Florescence Spectroscopy as well as serving as a place for members to organize the spectra that they have contributed to the forum.?
As a starting point, the pages will be populated by information taken from member posts from the past few years - with references/attribution. Perhaps in time, these pages can be edited by members to make them more complete and less choppy. Members can also edit this page, making the structure of the content more organized.?
Pages can contain information about a particular topic, links to relevant resources (such as manuals, research papers, etc.), links to relevant forum discussions on the topic, book titles, or anything that might be useful.
What follows is very much a work in progress.
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Adding to the Wiki
For those unfamiliar with the Wiki phenomenon, it is basically a user editable encyclopedia. The idea is that there are pages with different articles, which the user can read and also choose to edit if desired. If a piece of information is incorrect, a link outdated, or the presentation choppy or unclear, the user can just click "Edit Page" at the bottom and then fix the mistake. There is also a "Page History," so if you a user were to make a mistake or maliciously destroy a page (which wouldn't happen here) an editor can come along and restore the page to a previous version.?
If you have used MediaWiki (the engine that runs behind the scene of Wikipedia.org) you will be familiar with a certain style of creating an article. There are tags that one uses to change the formatting of the parts of the article. The Wiki on Groups.io uses a different background engine and so the standard MediaWiki syntax does not apply here. Rather, the page is edited using the same tools as one would use to compose a message on the forums. If you are a programmer or someone who likes using the tagged syntax directly, you can access the underlying page source code, be activating the advanced editing toolbar (the icon with three lines on the far right of the basic toolbar) and then clicking on the source code icon <> on the far right of the Advance Editing Toolbar. You will immediately notice that the underlying source code is HTML. Most things can be done just by using the various icons, but advanced features like table can only be implemented by manually writing the source code. (Although there are website available that will generate the source code for you through a graphical interface.)
Here are some useful resources from Groups.io:?
Wiki Guide for Users and Editors
Message Composition Tips and Tricks
Overview of XRF
X-Ray Florescence vs. X-Ray Diffraction
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Hardware
This section describes the hardware used for XRF. We will describe the basic theory of operation of each stage in the processing tool chain and then present different commercial systems that are available as these systems are often integrated together.
[Editor note: General theory needs to be in an independent page separate from specific manufacturer information.
[Editor note - question: Should this be arranged by category, e.g detectors, preamps, etc or by manufacturer with the manufacturers product line on one page. Perhaps it's best to put a list of products with theory but the details of the products on a manufacture page...]
Detectors?- what's available, theory of operation, tradeoffs
Detector Cooling?- keeping detectors cool to avoid thermal noise and keeping the TEC from overheating
Preamps?- theory of operation, brief summary of what out there (and what not to do - such as trying to use a PMT preamp for a SiPIN diode...)
Pulse Processing Theory - high level overview of the stages of going from detector pulse to channel peaks on the computer
Commercial Systems - many commercial systems are integrated so it seems to make sense to present, for example all Amptek products together. [question: are their other affordable integrated systems besides Amptek?]
Amptek XRF System
Activation Sources - what do you use to make the sample fluoresce (that's within the amateur budget and doesn't require special licensing)
Software
- Device Control Software - what do you use to collect the data from the detector system
- XRF Analysis Software - what do you use to analyze the data, especially for quantitative measurements (composition percentages, thin film measurement)
- Free Software Tools
Note: there may be software packages that possess some or all of these characteristics.
Materials Spectra
Metals Spectra
Historic/Archeological Spectra
Reference Materials Spectra
Household Objects Spectra
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Resources
Videos
Articles
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Non-XRF Techniques
Gamma Spectroscopy
Raman Spectroscopy
FTIR - Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy
Atomic Emission Spectroscopy
Inductively Coupled Atomic Emission Spectroscopy
Spark Emission Spectroscopy
Atomic Absorption Spectroscopy
LIBS - Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy
Photoacoustic Spectroscopy
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Re: Si pin xrf ..1st go
taray singh
开云体育Geo I will try to borrow some samples if possible. Reason for doing these scans is besides studying elements present is to check for purity? There many generic implants flooding the market? On 1 Oct 2020, at 1:41 AM, GEOelectronics@... wrote:
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Re: Trinitite
Maybe we should add that the first Pu-29 was also supergrade due to the short time it was in the reactor.? For that reason the usual Pu-240 and Pu-241 wasn't there in elevated quantities. It's quite possible the Am-241 in Trinitite came from Pu-239 neutron-capturing to Pu-241 in the explosion, hence the ubiquitous Am-241 in our Trinitite samples. Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 20:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite I should have clarified that Unat is in the trinitite from the site soil incorporated in it, just a small amount. Serber's paper indicates that two metals were considered for the tamper, U and Au. Since there was likely a lot of DU available, I suspect that is what they used since it was a waste product. And since DU is already depleted in 235, and as you mentioned some of that was fissioned off, the ratio kind of makes sense now. I don't think they would have considered Unat for the tamper, they were pretty paranoid about excess neutrons flying around in the gadget prior to detonation. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 10:27 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? Here's another Trinitite mass spectrum analysis: ----- Original Message ----- From: GEOelectronics@... To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 09:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite "it could be the method by which intensity is reported." I must agree because this is the first mass spec report I've ever seen. ? Still looking for more online. But why Unat metal in the first place in the tamper? Why not their super depleted U? The Pu' way a super pure, why trash up the test results with U-235? Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Still too low to explain the discrepancy. Must be something else involved, it could be the method by which intensity is reported. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:43 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? Steve, a lot of the U-25 was fished. Some report 30% of the total released energy from Trinity was due to plain ol' natural U-235. Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite What is interesting is the ratio of intensity of 235/238. Of course, nuclide production, decay activity and contribution of Unat must be considered but it still seems off. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:10 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? He did weigh the sample Steve, but then he digested it in Hydrofluoric and Nitric acid. after drying he must have measured it again? Anyhow I don't know but would guess yes they can do that. ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Is there any way to convert intensity to ppm or ppt? Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 4:05 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? "Neptunium", a YouTuber did an ICPMS mass-spectrum? of Trinitite. From the data presented on isotope ratios these are of most interest to us: Analysis? ? ?Intensity ? U-235? ? ? ? ? ?1523.1 ? U-238? ? ? ?235679.6?? ? Pu-239? ? ? ? ?6312.2 ? Pu-240? ? ? ? ? ?167.5 ? Pu-241? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3.6? Good to know. He did multiple runs, they were statistically the same. We can start to make preliminary assumptions based on known T/2 of the isotopes and their daughters. Pu-239 by far the most abundant species.? Pu-241 is only T/2= 14.4 years so it's remarkable there is any left now. It decays 100% to Am-241 so we can get a calculation of it's T=0 quantity. Pu-243 would have decayed away in one day, but it's 100% progeny Am-243 lasts a long time, so we have to at least consider the one report that identifies Am-243 as possible, while at the same time investigate the alternatives. All-in-all we can probably claim a good half dozen X-Ray peaks to our personal Life-Lists, and either prove or debunk a few prior claims by others. Good hunting. Geo |
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Re: Trinitite
Thanks Steve.? Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 20:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite I should have clarified that Unat is in the trinitite from the site soil incorporated in it, just a small amount. Serber's paper indicates that two metals were considered for the tamper, U and Au. Since there was likely a lot of DU available, I suspect that is what they used since it was a waste product. And since DU is already depleted in 235, and as you mentioned some of that was fissioned off, the ratio kind of makes sense now. I don't think they would have considered Unat for the tamper, they were pretty paranoid about excess neutrons flying around in the gadget prior to detonation. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 10:27 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? Here's another Trinitite mass spectrum analysis: ----- Original Message ----- From: GEOelectronics@... To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 09:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite "it could be the method by which intensity is reported." I must agree because this is the first mass spec report I've ever seen. ? Still looking for more online. But why Unat metal in the first place in the tamper? Why not their super depleted U? The Pu' way a super pure, why trash up the test results with U-235? Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Still too low to explain the discrepancy. Must be something else involved, it could be the method by which intensity is reported. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:43 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? Steve, a lot of the U-25 was fished. Some report 30% of the total released energy from Trinity was due to plain ol' natural U-235. Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite What is interesting is the ratio of intensity of 235/238. Of course, nuclide production, decay activity and contribution of Unat must be considered but it still seems off. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:10 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? He did weigh the sample Steve, but then he digested it in Hydrofluoric and Nitric acid. after drying he must have measured it again? Anyhow I don't know but would guess yes they can do that. ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Is there any way to convert intensity to ppm or ppt? Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 4:05 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? "Neptunium", a YouTuber did an ICPMS mass-spectrum? of Trinitite. From the data presented on isotope ratios these are of most interest to us: Analysis? ? ?Intensity ? U-235? ? ? ? ? ?1523.1 ? U-238? ? ? ?235679.6?? ? Pu-239? ? ? ? ?6312.2 ? Pu-240? ? ? ? ? ?167.5 ? Pu-241? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3.6? Good to know. He did multiple runs, they were statistically the same. We can start to make preliminary assumptions based on known T/2 of the isotopes and their daughters. Pu-239 by far the most abundant species.? Pu-241 is only T/2= 14.4 years so it's remarkable there is any left now. It decays 100% to Am-241 so we can get a calculation of it's T=0 quantity. Pu-243 would have decayed away in one day, but it's 100% progeny Am-243 lasts a long time, so we have to at least consider the one report that identifies Am-243 as possible, while at the same time investigate the alternatives. All-in-all we can probably claim a good half dozen X-Ray peaks to our personal Life-Lists, and either prove or debunk a few prior claims by others. Good hunting. Geo |
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Re: Trinitite
开云体育
I should have clarified that Unat is in the trinitite from the site soil incorporated in it, just a small amount. Serber's paper indicates that two metals were considered for the tamper, U and Au. Since there was likely a lot of DU available, I suspect that
is what they used since it was a waste product. And since DU is already depleted in 235, and as you mentioned some of that was fissioned off, the ratio kind of makes sense now.
I don't think they would have considered Unat for the tamper, they were pretty paranoid about excess neutrons flying around in the gadget prior to detonation.
Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 10:27 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ?
Here's another Trinitite mass spectrum analysis:
----- Original Message -----
From: GEOelectronics@... To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 09:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite "it could be the method by which intensity is reported."
I must agree because this is the first mass spec report I've ever seen.
?
Still looking for more online.
But why Unat metal in the first place in the tamper? Why not their super depleted U?
The Pu' way a super pure, why trash up the test results with U-235?
Geo
----- Original Message -----
From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Still too low to explain the discrepancy. Must be something else involved, it could be the method by which intensity is reported. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:43 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ?
Steve, a lot of the U-25 was fished. Some report 30% of the total released energy from Trinity was due to plain ol' natural U-235.
Geo
----- Original Message -----
From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite What is interesting is the ratio of intensity of 235/238. Of course, nuclide production, decay activity and contribution of Unat must be considered but it still seems off. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:10 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ?
He did weigh the sample Steve, but then he digested it in Hydrofluoric and Nitric acid. after drying he must have measured it again? Anyhow I don't know but would guess yes they can do that.
----- Original Message -----
From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Is there any way to convert intensity to ppm or ppt? Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 4:05 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ?
"Neptunium", a YouTuber did an ICPMS mass-spectrum? of Trinitite.
From the data presented on isotope ratios these are of most interest to us: Analysis? ? ?Intensity ? U-235? ? ? ? ? ?1523.1 ? U-238? ? ? ?235679.6?? ? Pu-239? ? ? ? ?6312.2 ? Pu-240? ? ? ? ? ?167.5 ? Pu-241? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3.6? Good to know. He did multiple runs, they were statistically the same. We can start to make preliminary assumptions based on known T/2 of the isotopes and their daughters. Pu-239 by far the most abundant species.? Pu-241 is only T/2= 14.4 years so it's remarkable there is any left now. It decays 100% to Am-241 so we can get a calculation of it's T=0 quantity. Pu-243 would have decayed away in one day, but it's 100% progeny Am-243 lasts a long time, so we have to at least consider the one report that identifies Am-243 as possible, while at the same time investigate the alternatives. All-in-all we can probably claim a good half dozen X-Ray peaks to our personal Life-Lists, and either prove or debunk a few prior claims by others. Good hunting. Geo |
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Re: Trinitite
Dud and Steve,?
The reference Dud sent: is the most satisfying so far and is what we will use foe the intensity probability of occurrence per alpha decay) for the La1, Lb1 and Ly1. Using the %, we can go on to the next step of correlating detected peaks of progeny to quantity of parent. Geometric factors between the source size and the sensor size will remain an unknown for now until the calcs are done on that. Sweet.?? Geo |
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Re: Si pin xrf ..1st go
" Imagine that if its still inside somebody"? Uh......yeah. OK I will do XRF Ti Knee Cardio docs have "samples" of aorta valves to handle and show patients. Not using titanium ones much anymore, but I can try to do XRF on old one if you don't find "sample". Geo From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 11:16:41 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Si pin xrf ..1st go Geo The transplant is likely for ankle internal fixation. I think it’s Synthes ,USA brand. These implants need to be removed once they have done their job They can fatigue and fracture if kept too long. This one is corroding in the pic Imagine that if its still inside somebody . Anything yellow is chromium plated as far as??most surgeons are concerned. Medical personnel sometimes take things for granted? Knee transplants are permanent features so I can’t get access??to old ones? Sternal wires should be available? I don’t do cardiac so I need to check it out On 30 Sep 2020, at 11:04 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote:
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Re: Trinitite
Here is the link to the YouTube ACP-MS guy: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Trinitite+ICP-MS&&view=detail&mid=DF0011A3172420188D52DF0011A3172420188D52&&FORM=VRDGAR The Google search term "+trinitite +forensics" is how I found it. Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: GEOelectronics@... To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 09:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite "it could be the method by which intensity is reported." I must agree because this is the first mass spec report I've ever seen. ? Still looking for more online. But why Unat metal in the first place in the tamper? Why not their super depleted U? The Pu' way a super pure, why trash up the test results with U-235? Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Still too low to explain the discrepancy. Must be something else involved, it could be the method by which intensity is reported. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:43 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? Steve, a lot of the U-25 was fished. Some report 30% of the total released energy from Trinity was due to plain ol' natural U-235. Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite What is interesting is the ratio of intensity of 235/238. Of course, nuclide production, decay activity and contribution of Unat must be considered but it still seems off. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:10 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? He did weigh the sample Steve, but then he digested it in Hydrofluoric and Nitric acid. after drying he must have measured it again? Anyhow I don't know but would guess yes they can do that. ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Is there any way to convert intensity to ppm or ppt? Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 4:05 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? "Neptunium", a YouTuber did an ICPMS mass-spectrum? of Trinitite. From the data presented on isotope ratios these are of most interest to us: Analysis? ? ?Intensity ? U-235? ? ? ? ? ?1523.1 ? U-238? ? ? ?235679.6?? ? Pu-239? ? ? ? ?6312.2 ? Pu-240? ? ? ? ? ?167.5 ? Pu-241? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3.6? Good to know. He did multiple runs, they were statistically the same. We can start to make preliminary assumptions based on known T/2 of the isotopes and their daughters. Pu-239 by far the most abundant species.? Pu-241 is only T/2= 14.4 years so it's remarkable there is any left now. It decays 100% to Am-241 so we can get a calculation of it's T=0 quantity. Pu-243 would have decayed away in one day, but it's 100% progeny Am-243 lasts a long time, so we have to at least consider the one report that identifies Am-243 as possible, while at the same time investigate the alternatives. All-in-all we can probably claim a good half dozen X-Ray peaks to our personal Life-Lists, and either prove or debunk a few prior claims by others. Good hunting. Geo |
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Re: Si pin xrf ..1st go
taray singh
开云体育GeoThe transplant is likely for ankle internal fixation. I think it’s Synthes ,USA brand. These implants need to be removed once they have done their job They can fatigue and fracture if kept too long. This one is corroding in the pic Imagine that if its still inside somebody . Anything yellow is chromium plated as far as??most surgeons are concerned. Medical personnel sometimes take things for granted? Knee transplants are permanent features so I can’t get access??to old ones? Sternal wires should be available? I don’t do cardiac so I need to check it out On 30 Sep 2020, at 11:04 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote:
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Re: Si pin xrf ..1st go
Taray did you mention what the implant was used for? Do you have access to artificial Knee or a St. Judes Aortic valve, or the stainless steel wire they sew up the strernum with after open-heart? Geo From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected], [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 6:45:38 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Si pin xrf ..1st go It could be titanium nitride coated titanium It has a similar color Here is a pic of chromium
On Wednesday, September 30, 2020, 06:53:33 PM GMT+8, taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> wrote:
Dude ? Here are some pics of 2 different aprons Apron 1 is slightly thicker than apron 2 Next pic is old orthopedic implant. It appears to be a niobium titanium implant It has a yellow coating Suspect should be chromium but not seeing the pics Taray Pic is? for apron and implant
On Wednesday, September 30, 2020, 07:00:50 AM GMT+8, taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> wrote:
Possibly a mix up. I did a fresh scan cos I din save the previous mca file I thought I picked up the same one I do have many apron samples ? |
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Re: Si pin xrf ..1st go
Great news on temperature, I hadn't thought to do that test yet. These can be run 24/7 for months with no drift (I know because always? do Am- CAL CHECK RUN before and after each long run). Then turn off for 6 months if you have other things to do (like Covid did) and start up again, calibration remains exact. Amazing tech, we are lucky to have them. Geo From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 9:38:46 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Si pin xrf ..1st go Geo While doing test today ,I did a quick 30 mins infrared temperature scan. The temperature of the casing was up less than 2 Celsius. This was with a metal block on top which had a similar rise Taray
On 30 Sep 2020, at 10:11 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote:
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Re: Si pin xrf ..1st go
taray singh
开云体育GeoWhile doing test today ,I did a quick 30 mins infrared temperature scan. The temperature of the casing was up less than 2 Celsius. This was with a metal block on top which had a similar rise Taray On 30 Sep 2020, at 10:11 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote:
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Re: Si pin xrf ..1st go
Ha! I love it! Geo From: "taray singh via groups.io" <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected], [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 5:52:25 AM Subject: Re: [XRF] Si pin xrf ..1st go Dude ? Here are some pics of 2 different aprons Apron 1 is slightly thicker than apron 2 Next pic is old orthopedic implant. It appears to be a niobium titanium implant It has a yellow coating Suspect should be chromium but not seeing the pics Taray Pic is? for apron and implant
On Wednesday, September 30, 2020, 07:00:50 AM GMT+8, taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> wrote:
Possibly a mix up. I did a fresh scan cos I din save the previous mca file I thought I picked up the same one I do have many apron samples ? |
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Re: Trinitite
Just read this, yes my first reply mentioned possible clue to super depleted U --- not Unat at all. Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 22:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Or mass of each present at the test site. From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:50 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? Still too low to explain the discrepancy. Must be something else involved, it could be the method by which intensity is reported. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:43 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? Steve, a lot of the U-25 was fished. Some report 30% of the total released energy from Trinity was due to plain ol' natural U-235. Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite What is interesting is the ratio of intensity of 235/238. Of course, nuclide production, decay activity and contribution of Unat must be considered but it still seems off. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:10 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? He did weigh the sample Steve, but then he digested it in Hydrofluoric and Nitric acid. after drying he must have measured it again? Anyhow I don't know but would guess yes they can do that. ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Is there any way to convert intensity to ppm or ppt? Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 4:05 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? "Neptunium", a YouTuber did an ICPMS mass-spectrum? of Trinitite. From the data presented on isotope ratios these are of most interest to us: Analysis? ? ?Intensity ? U-235? ? ? ? ? ?1523.1 ? U-238? ? ? ?235679.6?? ? Pu-239? ? ? ? ?6312.2 ? Pu-240? ? ? ? ? ?167.5 ? Pu-241? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3.6? Good to know. He did multiple runs, they were statistically the same. We can start to make preliminary assumptions based on known T/2 of the isotopes and their daughters. Pu-239 by far the most abundant species.? Pu-241 is only T/2= 14.4 years so it's remarkable there is any left now. It decays 100% to Am-241 so we can get a calculation of it's T=0 quantity. Pu-243 would have decayed away in one day, but it's 100% progeny Am-243 lasts a long time, so we have to at least consider the one report that identifies Am-243 as possible, while at the same time investigate the alternatives. All-in-all we can probably claim a good half dozen X-Ray peaks to our personal Life-Lists, and either prove or debunk a few prior claims by others. Good hunting. Geo |
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Re: Trinitite
PS, Steve did you look at the video on YouTube?? Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Still too low to explain the discrepancy. Must be something else involved, it could be the method by which intensity is reported. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:43 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? Steve, a lot of the U-25 was fished. Some report 30% of the total released energy from Trinity was due to plain ol' natural U-235. Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite What is interesting is the ratio of intensity of 235/238. Of course, nuclide production, decay activity and contribution of Unat must be considered but it still seems off. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:10 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? He did weigh the sample Steve, but then he digested it in Hydrofluoric and Nitric acid. after drying he must have measured it again? Anyhow I don't know but would guess yes they can do that. ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Is there any way to convert intensity to ppm or ppt? Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 4:05 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? "Neptunium", a YouTuber did an ICPMS mass-spectrum? of Trinitite. From the data presented on isotope ratios these are of most interest to us: Analysis? ? ?Intensity ? U-235? ? ? ? ? ?1523.1 ? U-238? ? ? ?235679.6?? ? Pu-239? ? ? ? ?6312.2 ? Pu-240? ? ? ? ? ?167.5 ? Pu-241? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3.6? Good to know. He did multiple runs, they were statistically the same. We can start to make preliminary assumptions based on known T/2 of the isotopes and their daughters. Pu-239 by far the most abundant species.? Pu-241 is only T/2= 14.4 years so it's remarkable there is any left now. It decays 100% to Am-241 so we can get a calculation of it's T=0 quantity. Pu-243 would have decayed away in one day, but it's 100% progeny Am-243 lasts a long time, so we have to at least consider the one report that identifies Am-243 as possible, while at the same time investigate the alternatives. All-in-all we can probably claim a good half dozen X-Ray peaks to our personal Life-Lists, and either prove or debunk a few prior claims by others. Good hunting. Geo |
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Re: Trinitite
"it could be the method by which intensity is reported." I must agree because this is the first mass spec report I've ever seen. ? Still looking for more online. But why Unat metal in the first place in the tamper? Why not their super depleted U? The Pu' way a super pure, why trash up the test results with U-235? Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Still too low to explain the discrepancy. Must be something else involved, it could be the method by which intensity is reported. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:43 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? Steve, a lot of the U-25 was fished. Some report 30% of the total released energy from Trinity was due to plain ol' natural U-235. Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite What is interesting is the ratio of intensity of 235/238. Of course, nuclide production, decay activity and contribution of Unat must be considered but it still seems off. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:10 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? He did weigh the sample Steve, but then he digested it in Hydrofluoric and Nitric acid. after drying he must have measured it again? Anyhow I don't know but would guess yes they can do that. ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Is there any way to convert intensity to ppm or ppt? Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 4:05 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? "Neptunium", a YouTuber did an ICPMS mass-spectrum? of Trinitite. From the data presented on isotope ratios these are of most interest to us: Analysis? ? ?Intensity ? U-235? ? ? ? ? ?1523.1 ? U-238? ? ? ?235679.6?? ? Pu-239? ? ? ? ?6312.2 ? Pu-240? ? ? ? ? ?167.5 ? Pu-241? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3.6? Good to know. He did multiple runs, they were statistically the same. We can start to make preliminary assumptions based on known T/2 of the isotopes and their daughters. Pu-239 by far the most abundant species.? Pu-241 is only T/2= 14.4 years so it's remarkable there is any left now. It decays 100% to Am-241 so we can get a calculation of it's T=0 quantity. Pu-243 would have decayed away in one day, but it's 100% progeny Am-243 lasts a long time, so we have to at least consider the one report that identifies Am-243 as possible, while at the same time investigate the alternatives. All-in-all we can probably claim a good half dozen X-Ray peaks to our personal Life-Lists, and either prove or debunk a few prior claims by others. Good hunting. Geo |
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Re: Si pin xrf ..1st go
taray singh
It could be titanium nitride coated titanium It has a similar color Here is a pic of chromium
On Wednesday, September 30, 2020, 06:53:33 PM GMT+8, taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> wrote:
Dude ? Here are some pics of 2 different aprons Apron 1 is slightly thicker than apron 2 Next pic is old orthopedic implant. It appears to be a niobium titanium implant It has a yellow coating Suspect should be chromium but not seeing the pics Taray Pic is? for apron and implant
On Wednesday, September 30, 2020, 07:00:50 AM GMT+8, taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> wrote:
Possibly a mix up. I did a fresh scan cos I din save the previous mca file I thought I picked up the same one I do have many apron samples ? |
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Re: Si pin xrf ..1st go
taray singh
Dude ? Here are some pics of 2 different aprons Apron 1 is slightly thicker than apron 2 Next pic is old orthopedic implant. It appears to be a niobium titanium implant It has a yellow coating Suspect should be chromium but not seeing the pics Taray Pic is? for apron and implant
On Wednesday, September 30, 2020, 07:00:50 AM GMT+8, taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> wrote:
Possibly a mix up. I did a fresh scan cos I din save the previous mca file I thought I picked up the same one I do have many apron samples ? 
plateapron.jpg
implantmca.mca
implantmca.mca
implant.JPG
apron2.JPG
apron2mca.mca
apron2mca.mca
apron1mca.mca
apron1mca.mca
apron1.JPG
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Re: Trinitite
开云体育
Or mass of each present at the test site. From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:50 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ?
Still too low to explain the discrepancy. Must be something else involved, it could be the method by which intensity is reported.
Steve
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:43 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ?
Steve, a lot of the U-25 was fished. Some report 30% of the total released energy from Trinity was due to plain ol' natural U-235.
Geo
----- Original Message -----
From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite What is interesting is the ratio of intensity of 235/238. Of course, nuclide production, decay activity and contribution of Unat must be considered but it still seems off. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:10 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ?
He did weigh the sample Steve, but then he digested it in Hydrofluoric and Nitric acid. after drying he must have measured it again? Anyhow I don't know but would guess yes they can do that.
----- Original Message -----
From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Is there any way to convert intensity to ppm or ppt? Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 4:05 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ?
"Neptunium", a YouTuber did an ICPMS mass-spectrum? of Trinitite.
From the data presented on isotope ratios these are of most interest to us: Analysis? ? ?Intensity ? U-235? ? ? ? ? ?1523.1 ? U-238? ? ? ?235679.6?? ? Pu-239? ? ? ? ?6312.2 ? Pu-240? ? ? ? ? ?167.5 ? Pu-241? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3.6? Good to know. He did multiple runs, they were statistically the same. We can start to make preliminary assumptions based on known T/2 of the isotopes and their daughters. Pu-239 by far the most abundant species.? Pu-241 is only T/2= 14.4 years so it's remarkable there is any left now. It decays 100% to Am-241 so we can get a calculation of it's T=0 quantity. Pu-243 would have decayed away in one day, but it's 100% progeny Am-243 lasts a long time, so we have to at least consider the one report that identifies Am-243 as possible, while at the same time investigate the alternatives. All-in-all we can probably claim a good half dozen X-Ray peaks to our personal Life-Lists, and either prove or debunk a few prior claims by others. Good hunting. Geo |
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Re: Trinitite
开云体育
Still too low to explain the discrepancy. Must be something else involved, it could be the method by which intensity is reported.
Steve
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 7:43 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ?
Steve, a lot of the U-25 was fished. Some report 30% of the total released energy from Trinity was due to plain ol' natural U-235.
Geo
----- Original Message -----
From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite What is interesting is the ratio of intensity of 235/238. Of course, nuclide production, decay activity and contribution of Unat must be considered but it still seems off. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:10 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ?
He did weigh the sample Steve, but then he digested it in Hydrofluoric and Nitric acid. after drying he must have measured it again? Anyhow I don't know but would guess yes they can do that.
----- Original Message -----
From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Is there any way to convert intensity to ppm or ppt? Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 4:05 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ?
"Neptunium", a YouTuber did an ICPMS mass-spectrum? of Trinitite.
From the data presented on isotope ratios these are of most interest to us: Analysis? ? ?Intensity ? U-235? ? ? ? ? ?1523.1 ? U-238? ? ? ?235679.6?? ? Pu-239? ? ? ? ?6312.2 ? Pu-240? ? ? ? ? ?167.5 ? Pu-241? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3.6? Good to know. He did multiple runs, they were statistically the same. We can start to make preliminary assumptions based on known T/2 of the isotopes and their daughters. Pu-239 by far the most abundant species.? Pu-241 is only T/2= 14.4 years so it's remarkable there is any left now. It decays 100% to Am-241 so we can get a calculation of it's T=0 quantity. Pu-243 would have decayed away in one day, but it's 100% progeny Am-243 lasts a long time, so we have to at least consider the one report that identifies Am-243 as possible, while at the same time investigate the alternatives. All-in-all we can probably claim a good half dozen X-Ray peaks to our personal Life-Lists, and either prove or debunk a few prior claims by others. Good hunting. Geo |
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Re: Trinitite
Steve, a lot of the U-25 was fished. Some report 30% of the total released energy from Trinity was due to plain ol' natural U-235. Geo ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite What is interesting is the ratio of intensity of 235/238. Of course, nuclide production, decay activity and contribution of Unat must be considered but it still seems off. Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 6:10 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? He did weigh the sample Steve, but then he digested it in Hydrofluoric and Nitric acid. after drying he must have measured it again? Anyhow I don't know but would guess yes they can do that. ----- Original Message ----- From: WILLIAM S Dubyk <sdubyk@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 19:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite Is there any way to convert intensity to ppm or ppt? Steve From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of GEOelectronics@... <GEOelectronics@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 4:05 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [XRF] Trinitite ? "Neptunium", a YouTuber did an ICPMS mass-spectrum? of Trinitite. From the data presented on isotope ratios these are of most interest to us: Analysis? ? ?Intensity ? U-235? ? ? ? ? ?1523.1 ? U-238? ? ? ?235679.6?? ? Pu-239? ? ? ? ?6312.2 ? Pu-240? ? ? ? ? ?167.5 ? Pu-241? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3.6? Good to know. He did multiple runs, they were statistically the same. We can start to make preliminary assumptions based on known T/2 of the isotopes and their daughters. Pu-239 by far the most abundant species.? Pu-241 is only T/2= 14.4 years so it's remarkable there is any left now. It decays 100% to Am-241 so we can get a calculation of it's T=0 quantity. Pu-243 would have decayed away in one day, but it's 100% progeny Am-243 lasts a long time, so we have to at least consider the one report that identifies Am-243 as possible, while at the same time investigate the alternatives. All-in-all we can probably claim a good half dozen X-Ray peaks to our personal Life-Lists, and either prove or debunk a few prior claims by others. Good hunting. Geo |
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