Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Geo I actually tried moving the fine gain after initial coarse settings? Each time I move to the extreme?right,the scale reverts back to left.It was difficult to assess the movement of channel peaks accurately. So I arbitrarily stop somewhere and ended at 80. So I was thinking my 2048 was limiting the spread. Since you could?do it means I must have gone wrong somewhere? This I have to investigate . Now since my my calib is intact,is there lead peaks present in my RO discharge .? If not I need to repeat with lots of water to collect a centrifugal sample concentrate. And spread it out under a sample cup like my selenium sulphide. Taray
On Tuesday, November 3, 2020, 11:12 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: Good. No problems, I enjoy this 100%.
It's good to have a collleague.
FIRST- Calibration looks fine.
Second- would you like to increase the gain and move the 50.54 peak off to near the right side? This allows lower peaks to spread out better. My top range is ~ 62.5
George?
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 05:52:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Geo
Here is the Am 241 spectrum with the same settings.
Sorry for the delay.
As for scale error above I misquoted being way from my pc,
On starting Dppmca? ,calibrating? and connecting to si pin,the scale box upper? range is about 700 with spectrum about 80.
Not the other way round
That seems odd.
But on actually starting acquisition, everything normalizes.
Like I told you before I am unable to save calibration despite following the usual way
Always have to? recalibrate? playing with lifedata files on starting
Getting used to the routine
Not an issue.
Anyway let me know what you think about the RO sample
Thanks
Taray
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Good. No problems, I enjoy this 100%.
It's good to have a collleague.
FIRST- Calibration looks fine.
Second- would you like to increase the gain and move the 50.54 peak off to near the right side? This allows lower peaks to spread out better. My top range is ~ 62.5
George?
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Tue, 03 Nov 2020 05:52:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Geo
Here is the Am 241 spectrum with the same settings.
Sorry for the delay.
As for scale error above I misquoted being way from my pc,
On starting Dppmca? ,calibrating? and connecting to si pin,the scale box upper? range is about 700 with spectrum about 80.
Not the other way round
That seems odd.
But on actually starting acquisition, everything normalizes.
Like I told you before I am unable to save calibration despite following the usual way
Always have to? recalibrate? playing with lifedata files on starting
Getting used to the routine
Not an issue.
Anyway let me know what you think about the RO sample
Thanks
Taray
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Geo
Here is the Am 241 spectrum with the same settings.
Sorry for the delay.
As for scale error above I misquoted being way from my pc,
On starting Dppmca? ,calibrating? and connecting to si pin,the scale box upper? range is about 700 with spectrum about 80.
Not the other way round
That seems odd.
But on actually starting acquisition, everything normalizes.
Like I told you before I am unable to save calibration despite following the usual way
Always have to? recalibrate? playing with lifedata files on starting
Getting used to the routine
Not an issue.
Anyway let me know what you think about the RO sample
Thanks
Taray
|
Re: Mini Xray with Si pin
On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 05:10 AM, taray singh wrote:
Geo
Ur using higher energies?
I am sure ur setup is optimum?
Are u using a lead compartment?
Taray
Here's the story:
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Mini Xray with Si pin
Geo Ur using higher energies? I am sure ur setup is optimum? Are u using a lead compartment? Taray
On Monday, November 2, 2020, 9:42 AM, taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> wrote:
Randall Yes I agree scatter is dangerous? Low range is not measurable easily? I actually have a lead glass on the far left facing the incident beam not seen in the pic. Scatter? from the sample is not blocked my this glass shield? Actually I do have leaded goggles and a cap I use at my workplace? SOP hospitals is only lead apron and thyroid neck collar.I purchased my own set X rays at home setup are?best avoided..I think? Taray On Monday, November 2, 2020, 1:49 AM, Randall Buck <rbuck@...> wrote: Ditto. That shield is insufficient re probable scattered x-rays, as will most likely also apply to a jig used for holding your sample, i.e., scattering. Eyes are? apparently quite sensitive to x-ray damage. Dosimeters, unless they are designed for the wavelengths or energies? being generated (less than and equal to to the peak accelerating voltage in kV ) do not provide a reliable indicator of exposure.? The "less than" part is the tricky bit. I would only try that setup inside a lead-lined box with an interlock switch and no leaky joints. my opinion, Randall ----- Original Message ----- From: Dude < dfemer@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 11:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [XRF] Mini Xray with Si pin You guys scare me.. Dud From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of GEOelectronics@...Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2020 6:58 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [XRF] Mini Xray with Si pin Pictures of how to make a lead shield/window for that style tube. Very popular hack in Eu. To me- not safe. I don't recommend this type around your Si-PIN, please stick to button. D9908-sm.jpg D9909-sm.jpg
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Dud I have no access to the mca at this moment? So I cannot check I will review?the mca tomorrow? I did cal with Bi and 59.5 with 2048 Cal details are in the mca using notepad But I do admit on connecting the x axis range into 700 kev when the actual scale is less On starting acquisition it drops to 80 kev? I dunno why? But looking at all my results so far my calibration tallies
But if you look at the pics the Pb peaks are visible ?and not seen in the control I will send?Geo my Am241 spectrum tomorrow for review? Taray
On Monday, November 2, 2020, 6:09 AM, Dude <dfemer@...> wrote:
I
can¡¯t match anything except the low fe
?
?
Looks
like Taray calibrated with Bi XRF and 59.5 Gamma Ray then did this run.
The
low energies seem exact to me Dud. I don't know what the thing at ~49 is tho.
-----
Original Message -----
From: Dude <dfemer@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 15:11:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
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Taray,
These
calibrates are not right for this run. Did you re cal when changing anything?
Dud
?
?
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter
paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for
electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
I
can¡¯t match anything except the low fe
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of GEOelectronics@...
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 2:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
?
Looks
like Taray calibrated with Bi XRF and 59.5 Gamma Ray then did this run.
The
low energies seem exact to me Dud. I don't know what the thing at ~49 is tho.
-----
Original Message -----
From: Dude <dfemer@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 15:11:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
margin: 0.0in;
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Taray,
These
calibrates are not right for this run. Did you re cal when changing anything?
Dud
?
?
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter
paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for
electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Looks like Taray calibrated with Bi XRF and 59.5 Gamma Ray then did this run. The low energies seem exact to me Dud. I don't know what the thing at ~49 is tho.
Geo
----- Original Message ----- From: Dude <dfemer@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 15:11:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Taray, These
calibrates are not right for this run. Did you re cal when changing anything? Dud ? ? Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter
paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for
electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Taray,
These
calibrates are not right for this run. Did you re cal when changing anything?
Dud
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of taray singh via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 6:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
?
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter
paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for
electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Geo It appears to need overlapping data files? I will check it ?when free
Regarding calibration data ,you can get by?opening mca file with notepad . If you continue scrolling below <data> ,lots of numbers in single rows Continue downwards full config data
On Sunday, November 1, 2020, 10:23 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: 2 minutes, easy superimpose.= 
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
2 minutes, easy superimpose.= 
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
"Barium is used to make X-ray shielding walls,gut radiological procedures like barium enema??and phosphor Some glasses contain barytes Taray
On Sunday, November 1, 2020, 9:40 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: "Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water""
Thanks makes sense, this sample is powder and heat sealed inside, so have to do it through the glass. Same material (I am told, don't know 100%) in plastic test tube shows no 32keV....
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:54:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Barium is used to make X-ray shielding walls,gut radiological procedures like barium enema??and phosphor Some glasses contain barytes Taray On Sunday, November 1, 2020, 9:40 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: "Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water"
Hi Taray, a great application for the Si-PIN detector, thanks for setting up that experiment. Test everything! (you never know what you'll find) Geo
PS is Barium used in lab glass? I am testing a sample sealed in ampule, very clear 32.19 peak, can't imagine it being in the actual sample, but maybe so......
G
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:23:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Geo
I think it is Bi 10.84 and Am 59.5
Taray
On Sunday, November 1, 2020, 9:54 PM, taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> wrote:
Barium is used to make X-ray shielding walls,gut radiological procedures like barium enema??and phosphor Some glasses contain barytes Taray On Sunday, November 1, 2020, 9:40 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: "Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water"
Hi Taray, a great application for the Si-PIN detector, thanks for setting up that experiment. Test everything! (you never know what you'll find) Geo
PS is Barium used in lab glass? I am testing a sample sealed in ampule, very clear 32.19 peak, can't imagine it being in the actual sample, but maybe so......
G
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:23:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Can you send short only -Am looking at the sensor scan? 60 seconds.mca please?
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:23:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Barium is used to make X-ray shielding walls,gut radiological procedures like barium enema??and phosphor Some glasses contain barytes
On Sunday, November 1, 2020, 9:40 PM, GEOelectronics@... wrote: "Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water"
Hi Taray, a great application for the Si-PIN detector, thanks for setting up that experiment. Test everything! (you never know what you'll find) Geo
PS is Barium used in lab glass? I am testing a sample sealed in ampule, very clear 32.19 peak, can't imagine it being in the actual sample, but maybe so......
G
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:23:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Taray, send CAL data please picture of CAL or just the two channel/energy point #s.
Geo
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:23:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
"Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water"
Hi Taray, a great application for the Si-PIN detector, thanks for setting up that experiment. Test everything! (you never know what you'll find) Geo
PS is Barium used in lab glass? I am testing a sample sealed in ampule, very clear 32.19 peak, can't imagine it being in the actual sample, but maybe so......
G
----- Original Message ----- From: taray singh via groups.io <sukhjez@...> To: [email protected]Sent: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 08:23:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [XRF] Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Re: Chinese water filter analysis
Hi guys
I repeated this test with additional RO discharge residue soaked in filter paper pressed against a yellow sample cap
As a control I also checked a new dry filter paper with the cap
Both samples were run for 1000 counts for statistical significance .
Ok Charles,this is a long run .
Quick XRF of the iron/Al electrodes
The RO sample show Fe and Pb peaks
Fe is coming from galvanic reaction.
Both the control and electrodes show no Pb peaks
Without any doubt there is lead in my drinking water
My impression is that the iron electrode acts as catalyst? for electrolytic precipitation reactions.
Pics are RO water residue,control sample and electrodes
|
Re: 59.5keV spectrum cleanup
Charles,
?This
is a classic example of what I have been trying to get across with respect to
thermion, calibrations and interpretation
You¡¯re
not exactly sure what you are looking at here because you¡¯re using an incorrect
program with a bad calibrate and relying on pre established lines to do your interpretation
for you. ?All of this is a result of using Theremino and not using the proper
program and calibrations that were designed to do this type of work.?
The
Sn La1 at 3.44 keV are ID¡¯d using the pre-assigned labels but it¡¯s actually the
K La1 at 3.31. The labeled Sn Lb1 at 3.66 is actually the K Lb1 3.59 which is
apparent when using the correct calibration and the DppMCA program to look at
it. The difference in energy between the Ka1¡¯s and the Kb1¡¯s is 0.13 and .07 keV.
That is the accuracy and precision that a calibration needs to address and that
is done using a linear or polynomial regression to establish the energy/channel
relationship not a dumb slider in a kid¡¯s program. When you do a regression you
can look at the fitting error and correct problems of a wrong peak pick. You¡¯re
blind in Theremino.
The
Ba La1 ID doesn¡¯t have enough detail to say what it is, but if its Ba then
where is the Ba Ka1 at 32.2? and where is the Sn Ka1 at 25.27? Using pre-established
lines is a poor crutch for interpretation and leads to? pre-conceived
expectations and bad results.
I
would suggest leaving the Theremino to NaI applications and start using DppMCA
to establish the calibration and do peak interpretations. Get a table listing,
in increasing order, the atomic number, it¡¯s element and the Ka1, Ka2, ..La1,
La2..etc energies and yields. (see attached) ??In the calibrated DppMCA program
start with the prominent peaks and find the max count and centriod, look up
that energy in the table and look to see what¡¯s around it paying attention to
the Ka1 and La1 and intensities. Find and verify the associated energies of
that element, put an ROI around the Ka and La¡¯s. note any weaker lines. One
line is not a positive ID it needs corroboration. In the ROI tab click show
details and the elements and associated data will be displayed (if it¡¯s in the
look up table, if not add it). You can take a screen shot using the Capture Plot
(Control C) and add any labels you want to it in Photoshop or whatever.
It¡¯s
time to move up.
Dud
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Charles David Young
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 7:28 PM
To: XRF
Subject: Re: [XRF] 59.5keV spectrum cleanup
?
I am not sure exactly what I am looking at here but I like
the sharpness of the peaks and the low noise.? Is this a scan with an
Am241 exciter?? See attached.
?
25.6 like last run, but auto threshold adjust applied. 8500s update .mca
below. Didn't help?
"noise" at low end, did noticeably improve definition of peaks
above 3 keV.
3.3 yes it is Ka1 of Potassium. But let's think about element K. for a moment,
a portion of it is K-40 and that has something like 10% decay path to Ar gas.
K-40 is loaded with 3.19 2.98 and 3.19 keVs. Then add the stable Ar in the air
which is really easily ionized, you might be getting a huge dose of Ar XRF
because of? the radioactive source.
Also the "noise" at the low end- I'm wondering if it has more to do
with the X-Ray photon's photopeak being scattered? by O2, and other air
molecules.?
Geo
? K at 3.3. noise at 4.5?? Cr at 5.42 and U Ll at 11.64
|
Re: 59.5keV spectrum cleanup
A graphic of both sources, comparing the energy, intensity and differences of the planchet material. 
|
