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Hi All, Greetings from the US.? I recently purchased my first plane, a 2007 X-air H. I am in the process of bringing it up to snuff, but resources for the plane are scant here. There is a fair amount of clean up and I think the prop that's on it is wrong, but I need to do a bit more digging on that. The little Jabiru may not be breathing well. I'm sure I'll be posting about that shortly :)
The biggest problem I'm having is that of aileron control. Specifically, when flying above about 66kts the plane is less stable than I feel it should be, tossing to the side off and on. At or below 65kts it will fly hands-off, but getting up to about 70kts or more, it requires constant vigilance and substantial correction any time the wind blows it even a tiny bit.
Otherwise, the plane feels great, with good, tight rudder response and gentle characteristics.?
I feel like this is abnormal for this plane, based on what I've read, but I've never flown any others.?
Can anyone offer any insight or suggestions as to what to check or adjust? Are there any other resources online you guys can point me towards to help me along my journey?
I'm sure I'll have lots of questions, and I appreciate everyone's help.
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Does one wing tend to want to drop and requires constant pressure on the aileron? If the aileron and/or flaps are out of rig, that might be the issue. As airspeed increases, any out of rig situation would be progressively noticeable. I would check that first.
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I had an issue in my XAir H where the aircraft wanted to do a slight turn during cruise. ?Thought as well might be a rigging issue but why suddenly?
Turns out the problem and fix was simple. ? The port flap was not fully retracted due to minor interference from a cotter pin. ? ?Once that was rectified, problem solved!
贵驰滨….
Geoff Gartshore Zenith CH200 GCUD Waterloo, Ontario?
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On Feb 2, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Marlin Jones <mljones@...> wrote:
?Does one wing tend to want to drop and requires constant pressure on the aileron? If the aileron and/or flaps are out of rig, that might be the issue. As airspeed increases, any out of rig situation would be progressively noticeable. I would check that first.
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One additional item to check. How is the rudder trim. Mine when I first bought it had a slight turning tendency (can't remember which way). I added a fixed trim tab to the rudder and that solved the problem after some trial and error adjustment.
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Hi What is port flap? Regards Bernhard ----- Upprunalegt skeyti ----- Frá: Geoffrey Gartshore <geoff.gartshore@...> Til: [email protected]Sent: Wed, 02 Feb 2022 19:36:18 -0000 (GMT) Efni: Re: [XAIR] New X-air H Hanuman owner I had an issue in my XAir H where the aircraft wanted to do a slight turn during cruise. Thought as well might be a rigging issue but why suddenly? Turns out the problem and fix was simple. The port flap was not fully retracted due to minor interference from a cotter pin. Once that was rectified, problem solved! 贵驰滨…. Geoff Gartshore Zenith CH200 GCUD Waterloo, Ontario
On Feb 2, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Marlin Jones <mljones@...> wrote:
?Does one wing tend to want to drop and requires constant pressure on the aileron? If the aileron and/or flaps are out of rig, that might be the issue. As airspeed increases, any out of rig situation would be progressively noticeable. I would check that first.
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It’s the flap on the left wing.
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario
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On Feb 2, 2022, at 4:38 PM, Bernhard Svavarsson <bern@...> wrote:
?Hi
What is port flap?
Regards
Bernhard
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Geoffrey Gartshore <geoff.gartshore@...>
Til: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 02 Feb 2022 19:36:18 -0000 (GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] New X-air H Hanuman owner
I had an issue in my XAir H where the aircraft wanted to do a slight turn during cruise. Thought as well might be a rigging issue but why suddenly?
Turns out the problem and fix was simple. The port flap was not fully retracted due to minor interference from a cotter pin. Once that was rectified, problem solved!
贵驰滨….
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario
On Feb 2, 2022, at 2:27 PM, Marlin Jones <mljones@...> wrote:
?Does one wing tend to want to drop and requires constant pressure on the aileron? If the aileron and/or flaps are out of rig, that might be the issue. As airspeed increases, any out of rig situation would be progressively noticeable. I would check that first.
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Hi All, Greetings from the US.? I recently purchased my first
plane, a 2007 X-air H. I am in the process of bringing it up to
snuff, but resources for the plane are scant here. There is a
fair amount of clean up and I think the prop that's on it is
wrong, but I need to do a bit more digging on that. The little
Jabiru may not be breathing well. I'm sure I'll be posting about
that shortly :)??? unfortunately the
Jabiru just doesn't perform as the same horsepower Rotax
engine. If you are trying to compare the 2 side-by-side you
will be disappointed. Just follow the performance information
and specifications in the Jabiru manual and tweak the aircraft
to perform as best as it can
The biggest problem I'm having is that of aileron control.
Specifically, when flying above about 66kts the plane is less
stable than I feel it should be, tossing to the side off and on.
At or below 65kts it will fly hands-off, but getting up to about
70kts or more, it requires constant vigilance and substantial
correction any time the wind blows it even a tiny bit.??? sounds like a combination of the aileron and
the flaps are not set correctly or you have free play in the
controls.....?? Free play in the controls will do exactly as
you describe
Otherwise, the plane feels great, with good, tight rudder
response and gentle characteristics.?
I feel like this is abnormal for this plane, based on what
I've read, but I've never flown any others.?
Can anyone offer any insight or suggestions as to what to
check or adjust? Are there any other resources online you guys
can point me towards to help me along my journey???? it does sound like your aircraft is flying
differently to many of the others that are out there so I
would strongly recommend checking all of the rigging? for the
aileron and flight controls as per the assembly manual
I'm sure I'll have lots of questions, and I appreciate
everyone's help.
--
With regards, Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name: xcomavionics
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done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do. Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
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"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
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Thank you all for your help and insight.
To summarize, The consensus is there is possibly an issue with the flaps (I'm thinking possibly the right one because it banks to the left), Ailerons might not be set right, or there is some slop in the control cables.
There is a big ice storm here in Indiana for the next couple of days, so I can't get to the hanger, but will start working through this shortly. I trailered it home, so I have to put the wings back on and double-check the controls anyway. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to go about checking the rigging? I know, follow the manual, but I didn't know if there was any experience or tricks that might help.
As for my issue with the Jab 2200. It's unable to make it over 2700rpm on the ground, and 2800-2900 at best in the air. Take-off roll was around 300m on a day with an air density altitude of -1500ft. Climb with about 900lbs load was around 500fpm. So I figure it's barely making 75% power; that could be an issue. :P?
I think the gentleman I got it from had too large and/or too much pitch in the prop, (64x34 I think) but I'm not 100% sure. Engine compressions are good, with leak downs being 74/80 76/80 72/80 74/80. The air breather assembly he made is possibly causing some restriction. Any recommendations for a prop if I can't get it going right?
Thanks again. You guys have already been super helpful!
?
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Hi You should have at least 2800 rpm on ground if not there is to much pitch on prop. Ground run longer but higher speed. What kind of prop do you have? Ground adjustable pitch prop or fixed? I have Sensenich ground adjustable propeller and works fine. regards ----- Upprunalegt skeyti ----- Frá: kymidnight@... Til: [email protected]Sent: Thu, 03 Feb 2022 01:07:34 -0000 (GMT) Efni: Re: [XAIR] New X-air H Hanuman owner Thank you all for your help and insight. To summarize, The consensus is there is possibly an issue with the flaps (I'm thinking possibly the right one because it banks to the left), Ailerons might not be set right, or there is some slop in the control cables. There is a big ice storm here in Indiana for the next couple of days, so I can't get to the hanger, but will start working through this shortly. I trailered it home, so I have to put the wings back on and double-check the controls anyway. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to go about checking the rigging? I know, follow the manual, but I didn't know if there was any experience or tricks that might help. As for my issue with the Jab 2200. It's unable to make it over 2700rpm on the ground, and 2800-2900 at best in the air. Take-off roll was around 300m on a day with an air density altitude of -1500ft. Climb with about 900lbs load was around 500fpm. So I figure it's barely making 75% power; that could be an issue. :P I think the gentleman I got it from had too large and/or too much pitch in the prop, (64x34 I think) but I'm not 100% sure. Engine compressions are good, with leak downs being 74/80 76/80 72/80 74/80. The air breather assembly he made is possibly causing some restriction. Any recommendations for a prop if I can't get it going right? Thanks again. You guys have already been super helpful!
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Prop may be too coarse and or long (dia) for that engine. ?? Geoff Gartshore Zenith CH200 GCUD Waterloo, Ontario?
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On Feb 2, 2022, at 8:08 PM, kymidnight@... wrote:
? Thank you all for your help and insight.
To summarize, The consensus is there is possibly an issue with the flaps (I'm thinking possibly the right one because it banks to the left), Ailerons might not be set right, or there is some slop in the control cables.
There is a big ice storm here in Indiana for the next couple of days, so I can't get to the hanger, but will start working through this shortly. I trailered it home, so I have to put the wings back on and double-check the controls anyway. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to go about checking the rigging? I know, follow the manual, but I didn't know if there was any experience or tricks that might help.
As for my issue with the Jab 2200. It's unable to make it over 2700rpm on the ground, and 2800-2900 at best in the air. Take-off roll was around 300m on a day with an air density altitude of -1500ft. Climb with about 900lbs load was around 500fpm. So I figure it's barely making 75% power; that could be an issue. :P?
I think the gentleman I got it from had too large and/or too much pitch in the prop, (64x34 I think) but I'm not 100% sure. Engine compressions are good, with leak downs being 74/80 76/80 72/80 74/80. The air breather assembly he made is possibly causing some restriction. Any recommendations for a prop if I can't get it going right?
Thanks again. You guys have already been super helpful!
?
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I'm new to my x Air Hawk as well but I have a Sensenich ground adjustable prop and it is incredible. Super easy to change pitch and it has 5 different increments to cater to your specific needs.
Make sure both mags and sets of plugs are operating as they should.
Obviously check fuel supply/system, with and without electronic boost pump. Make sure mechanical pump is not leaking, subsequently loosing vacuum by introducing air.
Verify correct oil viscosity and quantity inside crankcase.
Set up auxiliary tachometer to test that your primary tach is working as it should - if different equipment is giving different readings, then you can start to omit potential culprits through process of elimination.
May you elaborate more on your air intake setup? Pictures would help. What does the modification consist of and what was the intent to modify in the first place?
Justin
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Prop may be too coarse and or long (dia) for that engine. ??
Geoff Gartshore
Zenith CH200 GCUD
Waterloo, Ontario?
On Feb 2, 2022, at 8:08 PM, kymidnight@... wrote:
?
Thank you all for your help and insight.
To summarize, The consensus is there is possibly an issue with the flaps (I'm thinking possibly the right one because it banks to the left), Ailerons might not be set right, or there is some slop in the control cables.
There is a big ice storm here in Indiana for the next couple of days, so I can't get to the hanger, but will start working through this shortly. I trailered it home, so I have to put the wings back on and double-check the controls anyway. Does anyone have
any suggestions for how to go about checking the rigging? I know, follow the manual, but I didn't know if there was any experience or tricks that might help.
As for my issue with the Jab 2200. It's unable to make it over 2700rpm on the ground, and 2800-2900 at best in the air. Take-off roll was around 300m on a day with an air density altitude of -1500ft. Climb with about 900lbs load was around 500fpm. So I figure
it's barely making 75% power; that could be an issue. :P?
I think the gentleman I got it from had too large and/or too much pitch in the prop, (64x34 I think) but I'm not 100% sure. Engine compressions are good, with leak downs being 74/80 76/80 72/80 74/80. The air breather assembly he made is possibly causing
some restriction. Any recommendations for a prop if I can't get it going right?
Thanks again. You guys have already been super helpful!
?
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I believe it is overpropped. It seems like around 60x38 is more the norm. But I want to double-check the engine and make sure it is getting everything it needs to make good power before I spend a bunch on a propeller.
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If the Jab is not properly cooled, it will destroy itself quite quickly. It really needs two temp guahes, and initially, constant temperature checks. Mo.
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On 2 Feb 2022, at 08:38, kymidnight@... wrote:
? Hi All, Greetings from the US.? I recently purchased my first plane, a 2007 X-air H. I am in the process of bringing it up to snuff, but resources for the plane are scant here. There is a fair amount of clean up and I think the prop that's on it is wrong, but I need to do a bit more digging on that. The little Jabiru may not be breathing well. I'm sure I'll be posting about that shortly :)
The biggest problem I'm having is that of aileron control. Specifically, when flying above about 66kts the plane is less stable than I feel it should be, tossing to the side off and on. At or below 65kts it will fly hands-off, but getting up to about 70kts or more, it requires constant vigilance and substantial correction any time the wind blows it even a tiny bit.
Otherwise, the plane feels great, with good, tight rudder response and gentle characteristics.?
I feel like this is abnormal for this plane, based on what I've read, but I've never flown any others.?
Can anyone offer any insight or suggestions as to what to check or adjust? Are there any other resources online you guys can point me towards to help me along my journey?
I'm sure I'll have lots of questions, and I appreciate everyone's help.
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Jab engines are just like the lycoming air cooled engines found in cessnas am pipers. There is no major difference in design except the magnetos. I have had Jab engine for 10 years - never had overheat problem. ----- Upprunalegt skeyti ----- Frá: Mo Davies via groups.io <modavies@...> Til: [email protected]Sent: Thu, 03 Feb 2022 06:53:27 -0000 (GMT) Efni: Re: [XAIR] New X-air H Hanuman owner If the Jab is not properly cooled, it will destroy itself quite quickly. It really needs two temp guahes, and initially, constant temperature checks. Mo.
On 2 Feb 2022, at 08:38, kymidnight@... wrote:
?
Hi All, Greetings from the US. I recently purchased my first plane, a 2007 X-air H. I am in the process of bringing it up to snuff, but resources for the plane are scant here. There is a fair amount of clean up and I think the prop that's on it is wrong, but I need to do a bit more digging on that. The little Jabiru may not be breathing well. I'm sure I'll be posting about that shortly :)
The biggest problem I'm having is that of aileron control. Specifically, when flying above about 66kts the plane is less stable than I feel it should be, tossing to the side off and on. At or below 65kts it will fly hands-off, but getting up to about 70kts or more, it requires constant vigilance and substantial correction any time the wind blows it even a tiny bit.
Otherwise, the plane feels great, with good, tight rudder response and gentle characteristics.
I feel like this is abnormal for this plane, based on what I've read, but I've never flown any others.
Can anyone offer any insight or suggestions as to what to check or adjust? Are there any other resources online you guys can point me towards to help me along my journey?
I'm sure I'll have lots of questions, and I appreciate everyone's help.
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If I remember correctly from the Jabiru factory engine maintenance course I went to about 10 years ago, the correct prop pitch is one that results in or near 3300 rpm in level flight at full throttle. They said that static run-up is not a good indicator as faster airplanes will have more pitch resulting in less rpm than a plane with more drag. My prop is a DUC ground adjustable. Getting the right pitch was a bit of trial and error but once set the plane has performed perfectly. It sounds like your prop has too much pitch.
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I did a flight this morning and made it a point to check the actual rpm's. On climb out full throttle, 70-75mph, I was getting 3050 rpm. Straight and level, full throttle, 3250 rpm. I usually cruise in the 2750-2800 rpm range unless I'm in a hurry.
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Marlin,
Thank you for checking your plane.
Those are in line with what I was thinking. around 3000-3100 on ground/climb, 3250-3300 in straight and level, cruise around 2700-2800. As it sits right now, full throttle is 2650-2700 on the ground and climb, with 2800-2900? all out in straight a level.
I'm thinking the prop that's on it is pitched too aggressively or too large, but I need to eliminate air, fueling, ignition, or other running issues before I buy and very expensive propeller. Unless someone knows where I can find a used one for a reasonable price.
Thanks again,
Tom
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Tennessee Propellers makes good wood props at fairly reasonable prices. ? ?I had one on my XAir H. ? Check them out for pricing. ? Geoff Gartshore Zenith CH200 GCUD Waterloo, Ontario?
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On Feb 4, 2022, at 6:36 PM, kymidnight@... wrote:
? Marlin,
Thank you for checking your plane.
Those are in line with what I was thinking. around 3000-3100 on ground/climb, 3250-3300 in straight and level, cruise around 2700-2800. As it sits right now, full throttle is 2650-2700 on the ground and climb, with 2800-2900? all out in straight a level.
I'm thinking the prop that's on it is pitched too aggressively or too large, but I need to eliminate air, fueling, ignition, or other running issues before I buy and very expensive propeller. Unless someone knows where I can find a used one for a reasonable price.
Thanks again,
Tom
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Unfortunately Tennessee propellers appears to have failed during Covid and is not in business anymore.
Would anyone care to tell me what size/pitch you are using? I’ve reached out to Culver Props and have been digging, but I’d like to know what works for everyone else.
Tom
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So I got a chance to mess around in the hanger, this is what I've found.
Ailerons are completely in line with the flaps. There appears to be no 2 degree (or any degree) of upward angle to them. I still need to grab a straight edge and make sure the flaps are right, and then adjust the ailerons to the appropriate "up" angle relative to the flaps. I'm thinking this one at least part of the reason why it starts getting laterally unstable at higher speeds. I'm not sure, of course.
The rudder is rigged perfectly, and she flies very well in that regard. The trim tab is spot on. There does not appear to be any noticeable slop in the stick controls either.
The propeller appears to be a Tennesse props 62x42, which is, as expected, far too much propeller for the jab 2200. I need to do some playing with the engine and do some maintenance items before I'm comfortable taking her out of sight of the airport. Hopefully soon though.
I'm thinking 60x38 for the propeller is the norm for the Hawk and jab 2200 combo, Can anyone tell me what they are using on an H? I know Mr Coates has put together quite a few, I wasn't sure what was used with good success,
Thank you all again for your help and insight!
Tom
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Tom Yoder
Geoffrey Gartshore