Bill Magrini wrote:

Michael,?Can you fly the Xair without the fuselage cloth?? How does it fly?? Is there more or less drag??Thanks,?Bill

Good question Bill, i am not really sure if it can be flown without the fastback.

I would expect the plane could be flown without the fastback, but there would be an increase in drag and increased fuel consumption so i am not sure why you would bother ??. I think the plane would look pretty ugly with the back missing and i am sure the fastback and the fabric adds some strength to the whole structure.

Thanks Michael? X-Air Australia

Gday everyone, we have just uploaded a couple of more pictures into the
files section under 'Aircraft Colours', if you have an aircraft you want
to feature please send us some pics for display.

We are one off having 50 members which is really good considering we
only started a few weeks ago, and there is some great debate on engines
and other issues. If there is anything you would like to see on this
group please let me know and we will get it up and going.

We also have a chat section on this eGroup which is currently dissabled
but if there is enough interest i will activate it, set a time and we
can all get on line and communicate together, please let me know what
you think.

Finally, this group has been set up for you.... owners, builders and
people just comparing our aircraft against others, if you know of
someone who you think may benifit from being along for the ride please
ask them to join.... as they say 'The more the merrier'

thanks Michael

I have poached all this from a newsgroup and it may be usefull in the Hirth - Rotax debate

---

Okay... I don't want to start a war here... I just want to hear some folks
experiences with Rotax and Hirth engines.? :-)? I'm building a Challenger
II, and am considering the possibility of going with a Hirth 2706 rather
than the standard Rotax 503DC.

?I would like to hear from both Rotax 503 owners and Hirth 2706 owners.

*? Have you had problems, and what kind?
*? Have you had a great running engine that has lasted forever?
*? What kind of support have you had if there were problems?
*? Has the engine lived up to your expectations?

Please... I don't mean to be overly nit-picky, but I will completely
disregard any posts from anybody who hasn't actually flown one of the two
engines...?? I've already seen plenty of opinions that started with, "my
brother's best friend's cousin knew this guy who was going with this girl
who used to rent a house from a man who had a Rotax/Hirth, and nearly got
killed because it quit on takeoff... yeah man... I think it was the
flagellator valve or something..."? :-)

So please... no opinions, only first hand experience.? Thanks!!

Andrew Mueller
amueller@...

---

Well, I'll make your day. I have been around uls since before they were
called uls. I have seen and flown lots of different engines, starting
with a Mac 101 cart engine and a new blue head this sunday.

I attended OshKosh and SnF for many years, lots of flyins, etc, I have
rebuilt literally hundreds of rotax engines, some of them the same
engine for thousands of hours, flown them as a? newbie for hundreds and
thousands more as an instructor. I've sold six brand new ones since the
first of this year, and sure I've seen the 503 come in with a broken
crank, seixed pistons, points stuck with no spark, carboned up so bad I
could not get the rings out of the grooves with out a chisel. I flew a
503 with a broken crank three miles back to the field, didn't know it at
the time though, and I intend to spend many more hours in front of or
under a rotax pushing me and my friends through the sky, and the point
of all this,

I can't honestly say I have ever seen a Hirth engine fly anything, ever,
in all that time, and places and years,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

guess I can't help with the Hirth side,,,,,,,,,

---

Hi Andrew,
?

Why are you looking at the 503 instead of the 582 which gives the same
HP....as the Hirth 2706.

My friend here in Austalia is building a Challenger clip wing special 11
and bought a Hirth 2706 motor 4 years ago when he started to have
his Challenger built.? The new Hirth 2706 is now upgraded and his
Challenger is nearly finished ..yes I would say he holds the Worlds
record of 'takng the longest time to build an U/L'

Now...he is in a quandary of what to do with the outdated
new Hirth motor.

He and I both , had a 582 Rotax for 3 years until last year on a Pegasus
quantum and a Quasar Trike and after nearly 300 hours on each it never
once had a hiccup.

The new 'blue top' Rotax 582 is even better and if you are looking for
more power like the Hirth 2706 for STOL etc I would not look any
further.

My two cents worth.
?

Cheers Peter

---

Consider this. When you're flying, why would you not want to be using the
engine with the longest and best track record. Don't even consider the Hirth.
Get a Rotax. The 503 is the best ultralight engine you can buy at any price.

I have hundreds of hours of first hand experience with Rotax engines. I have a
small amount of experience with a 2706 because it broke. The 2706 hp is over
rated 65, should be 50. Nikisil cylinders are a bad idea, don't believe the
hype about expantion rates. And the TBO, has anyone seen a Hirth engine make
the supposed 1000 TBO?

Personally I run a 582 but would be running a 503 if I could get by with less
power.

Q

---

?

Hi Michael & Group,

As well as my article below, I posted an article similar to the one
below to another Newsgroup with 'egroup Ultralights' concerning the
Challenger U/L and the Hirth motor that my mate had purchased new
4years ago.

The site is

If you type the word 'Hirth" in the search box it will come up with
81
messages.

A large number of the messages are Hirth V Rotax and the personal
exp.
with the Hirth 2706.

It is worth reading all the mesaages for those interested in either
motor.

My personal opinion is that the Rotax 618 with the added HP and oil
injection would by my preferred motor, followed by the new blue top
582 which has number of changes taken from the 618.

Cheers Peter







--- In X-Air_Ultralight_Aircraft@..., Michael Coates
<xair@m...> wrote:

I have poached all this from a newsgroup and it may be usefull in

the

Hirth - Rotax debate

----------------------------------------------------------------------
--

Okay... I don't want to start a war here... I just want to hear some
folks
experiences with Rotax and Hirth engines. :-) I'm building a
Challenger
II, and am considering the possibility of going with a Hirth 2706

rather

than the standard Rotax 503DC.

I would like to hear from both Rotax 503 owners and Hirth 2706

owners.

* Have you had problems, and what kind?
* Have you had a great running engine that has lasted forever?
* What kind of support have you had if there were problems?
* Has the engine lived up to your expectations?

Please... I don't mean to be overly nit-picky, but I will completely
disregard any posts from anybody who hasn't actually flown one of

the

two
engines... I've already seen plenty of opinions that started

with,
"my

brother's best friend's cousin knew this guy who was going with this
girl
who used to rent a house from a man who had a Rotax/Hirth, and

nearly

got
killed because it quit on takeoff... yeah man... I think it was the
flagellator valve or something..." :-)

So please... no opinions, only first hand experience. Thanks!!

Andrew Mueller
amueller@i...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
--

Well, I'll make your day. I have been around uls since before they

were

called uls. I have seen and flown lots of different engines,

starting

with a Mac 101 cart engine and a new blue head this sunday.

I attended OshKosh and SnF for many years, lots of flyins, etc, I

have

rebuilt literally hundreds of rotax engines, some of them the same
engine for thousands of hours, flown them as a newbie for hundreds

and

thousands more as an instructor. I've sold six brand new ones since

the

first of this year, and sure I've seen the 503 come in with a broken
crank, seixed pistons, points stuck with no spark, carboned up so

bad I

could not get the rings out of the grooves with out a chisel. I

flew
a

503 with a broken crank three miles back to the field, didn't know

it at

the time though, and I intend to spend many more hours in front of

or

under a rotax pushing me and my friends through the sky, and the

point

of all this,

I can't honestly say I have ever seen a Hirth engine fly anything,

ever,

in all that time, and places and years,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

guess I can't help with the Hirth side,,,,,,,,,

----------------------------------------------------------------------
--

Hi Andrew,


Why are you looking at the 503 instead of the 582 which gives the

same

HP....as the Hirth 2706.

My friend here in Austalia is building a Challenger clip wing

special 11

and bought a Hirth 2706 motor 4 years ago when he started to have
his Challenger built. The new Hirth 2706 is now upgraded and his
Challenger is nearly finished ..yes I would say he holds the Worlds
record of 'takng the longest time to build an U/L'

Now...he is in a quandary of what to do with the outdated
new Hirth motor.

He and I both , had a 582 Rotax for 3 years until last year on a

Pegasus

quantum and a Quasar Trike and after nearly 300 hours on each it

never

once had a hiccup.

The new 'blue top' Rotax 582 is even better and if you are looking

for

more power like the Hirth 2706 for STOL etc I would not look any
further.

My two cents worth.


Cheers Peter

----------------------------------------------------------------------
--

Consider this. When you're flying, why would you not want to be

using

the
engine with the longest and best track record. Don't even consider

the

Hirth.
Get a Rotax. The 503 is the best ultralight engine you can buy at

any

price.

I have hundreds of hours of first hand experience with Rotax

engines. I

have a
small amount of experience with a 2706 because it broke. The 2706

hp
is

over
rated 65, should be 50. Nikisil cylinders are a bad idea, don't

believe

the
hype about expantion rates. And the TBO, has anyone seen a Hirth

engine

make
the supposed 1000 TBO?

Personally I run a 582 but would be running a 503 if I could get by

with

less
power.

Q

----------------------------------------------------------------------
--

hi michael,
your battery carrier looks pretty good but i think it will be more
safe if you fix it with the open side on the backward of the plane,
to
avoid to pilot/passenger to receive the battery in the back in case
of
head-on crash.
jean fran

Thanks for the input Jean Fran,

We have looked at that exact scenario and feel because the main boom is down at the tail and high at the engine in normal level flight there is less chance of the battery ever falling out..... but having said that we only show one tie in the picture for clarity, when she is in and ready to go there are three 80 kg ties in place, also the battery leads are cable tied in firmly and if they all fail it has to get through the luggage rack on it's way to your head. One customer has used a really long worm drive clamp and another has put a complete stainless strap around the whole structure.? Anyway who said we are ever going to crash ??

Thanks Michael

xair-info@... wrote:

开云体育

Urgent information Kitfoxes, Skyfoxes and Gazelles

---

I? know this post has nothing to do with X-Air's but an urgent problem has come up with the aircraft mentioned above, i have been asked to let as many people as possible know before the weekend so if your at the airfield and come across an owner who has not heard this notice then you can let them know.

---

All Kitfoxes, Skyfoxes and Gazelles are grounded with immediate effect

The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) have grounded all VH-
registered Kitfoxes, Skyfoxes and Gazelles with immediate effect following
an incident where an aileron became separated in flight.

Owing to the structural similarity between the VH- registered aircraft and
the AUF registered aircraft, the AUF is strongly recommending that pilots
and operators do not operate Kitfox, Skyfox and Gazelle aircraft until
they have spoken with an officer from the AUF office.

People becoming aware of this notice are asked to pass this information on
to any pilots and operators of Kitfoxes, Skyfoxes and Gazelles whom they
believe may not be aware of this warning.

An engineering resolution to this problem is currently being developed and
notification will be posted at this site in the near future.

This notice is issued by Rod Hewitt-Cooke, Technical Manager, AUF at 17:00
Fri 07 Jul 00

---

The following is from a memo just put out by Paul Middleton to the AUF
board.

I have also just had a phone call to say that a Reg 35 engineer is working
on the problem this weekend and it is anticipated that a resolution might
be available by late Monday.

---

For those who are not yet up with it on Tuesday a Vh registered Skyfox
Gazelle lost an aileron.? The instructor was apparently on the ball and
got it onto the ground in one piece.? Subsequent investigation has shown
that the problem was caused by a combination of an apparent design fault
and corrosion between dissimilar metals.? BASI handed it to CASA and
ourselves.? Rod has been tic tacking with both of them as well as and we
are now in the throes of coming up with a fix. At this stage CASA are
tossing it back to the owners.
Rod has just briefed me. We presently have a Gazelle going in at
Archerfield on Monday for a 100 hourly.? Rod has arranged for the LAME
to open the aileron at which point we will get a Reg. 35 involved to
approve a fix. There will be a cost but if we put a small levy on all
200 fox owners to be paid at rego time it will be an insignificant
amount compared with them all going to different reg 35s.? We will then
issue the AD complete with an approved fix.

Rod has just come in with the news that CASA have grounded the GA Skyfox
Fleet.? They don't have a fix, they are just shoving it back onto the
owners.? In the light of this development Rod and myself are ringing
around the schools who we know operate Foxes/Gazelles and suggesting
that they ground the school aircraft until we get back to them early
next week.
see you
Paul M

Darren Turner wrote:

Hi All,?I was wondering if people could give me some information on a couple of matters.(These pertain particularly to Australian regulations so my apologies to readers from elsewhere).?The first matter is the use of an UL like the X-air for commercial purposes.? Does anyone know if the regulations allow an owner of an amateur built X-air to use his/her aircraft to make money, eg. Aerial photography or joy flights.?The second matter is the issue of insuring a personal ultralight, what are the difficulties involved with insuring an X-air against damage/destruction at all times (ie. including during flight), and do the normal insurance companies offer this sort of insurance.?I am looking into purchasing an X-air, and answers to these questions would be most helpful.?Thanks in advance,Darren Turner

---

It is not possible to use an Ultralight for commercial purposes in Australia under the current regulations, except as an instructor training a student. I do know of many situations of people 'Cost Sharing' to cover their expenses, but if there is ever a problem then i believe they will be disciplined / sued.

'Joy flights' is a word that cannot be used but 'TIF' (Trial Introductory Flight) can be used in advertising, Aerial Photography, is i believe approved provided you only do it for your-self and not for profit (comes back to commercial use again), but again i know of people who do it and make good money from it.

Insurance, well i am happy to report that the X-Air is THE ONLY amateur built aircraft (Category 19) which can be insured in Australia, the agents Chamberlain Knights are happy to review your application. The underwriters have based their decision to insure the X-Air on the safety record of the aircraft in Australia and overseas, in particular the UK, so good news for all the X-Air owners out there.

Any other comments ??

thanks Michael

开云体育

The last four weeks has been particulary busy for with two customers building their aircraft at our factory under a Commercial Assistance Program.

---

Many people have asked us if we plan to offer ready to fly airplanes. Some have said that they don't have the time, space, ability or confidence to assemble an airplane. Others have said that they would be reluctant to fly something that they built themselves. Unfortunately, the high cost of certification and the lack of people qualified in CASA to review our aircraft in a reasonable time period prevents us from selling factory built aircraft at this stage (although we are working on it), but we think we can provide an attractive solution the Commercial Assistance Program.

Those who have been following the X-Air already know that ours is the fastest building airplane on the planet and it still meets the 51% rule in Australia and the US. What you may not know is that our published build times assume an inexperienced builder working in less than optimal conditions. Experienced builders with access to factory tools and equipment could do the work much faster, living on site they could comfortably build their X-Air from start to test flying? in less than two weeks.

With a Commercial Assistance Program (following FAA & AUF guidlines) we can offer our customers - our experience and facility for a flat fee, you would, in our workshop, receive expert supervision as you assemble and fit out your airplane. Your airplane would be assembled, the avionics, electrics and engine installed, and be ready for test flying all under constant supervision. And since you would have done the work, you would be able to satisfy the AUF regulations for amateur built status. In other words, we supervise, you build, and you get the credit.

Guaranteed Results
You would be assured that your X-Air was built to factory specifications and will therefore do everything that we said it would. Your free time would still be free! Your wife and children wouldn't need to carry your picture just to remember what you looked like. Your garage would still belong to your car, and the rest of your house would still be your home, not a workshop.

Lastly, you would have access to the experts, someone who knows the airplane inside and out. You would learn from us, and we would undoubtedly learn from you.

For more information on a Commercial Assistance Program please contact me by Email.

---

Congratulations to Ron and Jorg who have recently completed their aircraft at our factory and we wish them well as they take to the skies.

---

Ron pictured before departure from Murwillimbah in Northern NSW, Ron - an 18,000 hour Jumbo Jet Pilot is flying his plane back to Melbourne, a total distance of near 2000 kms.

---

Jorg, pictured beside his aircraft after it's maiden flight at Caboolture just north of Brisbane.

I have just uploaded some more pictures of aircraft into the files
section in the folder aircraft colours.

I have added a Yellow and Black and a Red and Blue.

Thanks Michael

August 06, 2000 SE Queensland Ultralight Flyer's 'First Sunday of the Month' BBQ
This month's BBQ is to be held at the magnificent Watts Bridge Memorial Airfield.
As always, if you fly something with wings there will be a meal and drink awaiting your arrival :)
The more the merrier !! For all the details.....
Contact: Richard (07) 3288-5627

August 18-20, 2000 Hervey Bay Air Spectacular
The Hervey Bay Aero Club will stage the Year 2000 Air Spectacular at Hervey Bay on Sunday 20 August. The air display will include the RAAF Roulettes, warbirds, vintage aircraft, ultralights, gyrocopters and skydivers. There will also be a static display, entertainment and food and drinks available. Ultralights, gyrocopters, trikes and GA aircraft are all welcome to fly in and enjoy the show.
There will be an Airman's Ball on the Friday night, so why not make it a fun weekend, and include whale watching. For more information...
Contact: Marie Roos on Mobile (0500) 505-303 or email marieroo@...

August 25-27, 2000 QVAG Fly-In, Watts Bridge Airfield, Queensland.
Please refer to the website:
Contact: Stephen Marr (07) 3821 0033, Fax (07) 3821 2335, Email raptek@....

November 26, 2000 Greenfield Toy Fly-In, Queensland
The AAAA, QVAG and Cooroy Rotary annual Fly-In to collect toys for a Christmas Appeal distributing to needy children in SE Queensland. BBQ lunch and entertainment.
Contact: Tony Green (07) 5485 3016, Fax (07) 5485 3017, Email: conavsup@....

cheers
Tony

Just received from Dave Waring in Indonesia is a picture of his
immaculate X-Air "F".

Dave has painted the pod and spats in Blue to match the leading edge
colour and it look terrific, the front wheel spat is an original design
by Dave... and it looks great. Also of interest is the black strip
around the base of the windscreen, and i am trying to find out more
information about how this was done.

Thanks Michael X-Air Australia

I have just come across an interesting X-Air photo with a definite story
behind it !!.

I may be wrong, but i think its India and it's some sort of 'blessing'
ceremony.

Maybe someone knows more ??

Imagine getting chased by this.

Regards Michael

My understanding is that the Indian Police use some X Airs for aerial
surveillance. Perhaps this is a christening ceremony for the first units
delivered?

Perhaps Joel can clarify...
--
Trevor Page
X-Air Ontario Dealer
tpage@...

From: Michael Coates <xair@...>
Reply-To: X-Air_Ultralight_Aircraft@...
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:19:07 +1000
To: "X-Air_Ultralight_Aircraft@..."
<X-Air_Ultralight_Aircraft@...>
Subject: X-Air Ultralight Aircraft Interesting Photo - POLICE X-AIR

I have just come across an interesting X-Air photo with a definite story
behind it !!.

I may be wrong, but i think its India and it's some sort of 'blessing'
ceremony.

Maybe someone knows more ??

Imagine getting chased by this.

Regards Michael

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Conference in the whole family on the same call.
Let the fights begin! Visit Firetalk.com - Click below.

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____________________________
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From Jean Fran in France

"In fact, it's the Swedish xair dealer, Bj?rn Police, washing
his
windscreen."

????? who knows !!

?
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground, and miss."

I have to attest to the strength and resiliency of the Xair. I had a forced
landing in a corn field last night after my Hirth seized. I tore up about 75
feet of corn in the process. Too bad it was cattle corn... I could have had
a barbq.. :)

Not a scratch on me or the plane. Now we have to figure out what happened.
This engine run really hot and I think that had something to do with it...

Do I get a medal for this or something? :)
--
Trevor Page
X-Air Ontario Dealer
tpage@...

We will have to send you an X-Air Survivors Award, due to the fact they keep flying there have only ever been a few given out !!.

We had a similar occurrence over here where a pilot was looking for directions (lost) and decided to land on this lush green paddock next to a homestead. At 3000 AGL it looked perfect !!, while flaring he noticed it was swaying in the breeze and he went into the field which was over 2 metros deep. He said his ground roll was about 3 meter's, people OK, plane OK, they needed a tractor to pull the plane out because it was not going anywhere by pushing it.

The silly thing was he landed parallel with a road that would of made a perfect strip, but because he flew from a grass field he though he would stay on what he knew ? and not risk landing on a hard surface. Of the very few accidents i have heard of in the X-Air all have been related to engine problems !, the way the cockpit is made and the strength which comes from the wooden floor really make it a safe aircraft, it's like a safety cell in race cars.

Hope you can sort out your engine problems and get airborne again really quickly.

Trevor Page wrote: