When you have an aircraft flying on floats you want to get the best
possible power to weight ratio so you can get off the water quickly.
The Rotax does a good job with this because of its geared high
revving engine, the Jabiru is very slow to excel in rate by
comparison and the climb rate is significantly slower. All of this
goes against the airframe powered by a Jabiru being totally suitable
for floats. Sure, it is probably going to work but you are placing
the aircraft and occupants at a higher risk if it takes a thousand
metres to get off the water whereas normally it would take 300 m as
an example/comparison
Justin Gregoris wrote on 17/10/2021
8:08 pm:
Moderator,
Have you flow a hanuman with Jabiru 2200 on floats?
Wondering why this would be a disaster?
I've spoke to a.couple people with this set up and they had
nothing bad to say about it.?
Any Info is appreciated.
Hello Richard, I agree with your statement in the final
sentence. The Jabiru is not the correct choice of engine for the
Hanuman airframe. The Rotax 912 in 80 hp configuration runs
rings around the same aircraft with a Jabiru.
Completely forgetting the debate about reliability, the Rotax
gets off in almost half the distance, it climbs 300 to 400 feet
faster every minute and it uses less fuel at a higher cruise
speed.....? Using a Jabiru on a float version of the Hanuman
would be a disaster in my opinion.
Richard Stubbs wrote on
17/10/2021 4:15 pm:
Hi All
?
These Jabiru motors are a bit of an
enigma. Some seem to last well, others just don’t!
There’s always been this debate with them as to what
fuel to use, all 100 octane Avgas, 95 octane / Avgas
mix……? Quite honestly who knows at this point? When you
have an engine that sometimes may go the distance while?
others fail early everyone becomes an expert on either
how best to operate them properly to last or ‘now we
know’ what the problems are!
?
In my opinion whether you like them or
not the Jabiru 85hp 2200 is a road runner without a
reduction drive as per the Rotax 582 or 912 series
engines. At all up weight when you are hot and high
‘watch out’! ?
?
Given that the Hanuman is supposed to be
a STOL type microlight/LSA the question is then ‘Is this
the right engine to begin with’? Certainly not on this
airframe I feel.
?
BR
Richard
?
??
?
?
My
Jabiru 2200 had over 600 hours on it when I sold my XAir
and the engine was running flawlessly. ? ? I maintained
and operated it as per Jabiru maintenance requirements. ?
?Cowling had good cooling design and never had any issue
with CHT…….
?
It's also important to note the
aircraft that are in fact being run with the
Jabiru 2200.
That influences the performance, if
the overall engineering has/had flaws. I.e., the
cowling is different on each aircraft - higher vs
lower temperatures, etc.
Also,
lead in the AvGas is said to aid in lubricity and
ultimately lower temperatures, versus Jabiru 2200s
that end up either mixing or using 91 or 93 MoGas.
I
would like to agree with this because it would be
very comforting but how do you explain all of the
failures in Jabiru aircraft built by the factory.
They know what they're doing after building many for
30 years and they still have failures.
It sounds like I am Jabiru bashing but I am not, it
is just a fact that we have seen by the few
operators at our airfield, all with Jabiru engines
in Jabiru aircraft.
The Jabiru factory demonstrator flew from Bundaberg
and was heading south with a brand-new engine with
all of the latest modifications and it failed and
had to land at our airfield, this was the latest
generation whizbang everything and in about 8 hours
running time the heads were shot and there were
Scuffing marks On the bore of 2 of the cylinders....
This was about 12 months ago.
Mo Davies via groups.io wrote
on 16/10/2021 7:11 pm:
From my experience, the
reliability of any Jab engine is more affected
by the quality of its installation than any
other factor. ?If sufficient care has been taken
to get it right, they run. ?If cooling, for
instance, is not properly achieved, they fail
with monotonous regularity.
?
Chaps, the comments about the
Jabiru were not from me!?
I own a 2200, I am an Aussie,
and I stand by them.
Clive Cunningham
K&M HD
Motorcycles
10 Deacon Ave
Richmond
SA 5033
Ph. +618 8234 1090
kmmotor@...
kmmotorcycles.com.au
Hi Justin
I would not take the comments from Clive
regarding the Jabiru engine seriosly.
I have a good experince with my jabiru
2200 and I know that 4 of my friends
which have those engine also are happy
with this engine. Rotax are fine engine
but there are lots of additional
combonents to look after and maintain.
If you plan to replace to rotax then
stay with the 80hp. The 212 and 14 are
more problematic than 80 hp.
----- Upprunalegt skeyti -----
Frá: Michael Coates <mcoates@...>
Til: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:53:14 -0000
(GMT)
Efni: Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel for
Ethanol
Justin Gregoris wrote on 14/10/2021 9:44
pm:
> Many thanks for the reply.
>
> Some more questions about the
Hanuman:
>
> - how long will it take with two
adults and full fuel with puddle
> jumper amphibious floats to get off
the water? not sure because I have
> not flown with the floats
>
> - same situation, but how long will
it take to off on grass? the Rotax
> engine about 80 m, the Jabiru
engine almost 200 m
>
> - same situation, how long to land
on water?
>
> - same situation, how long to land
of grass? mostly depends on the
> skill of the pilot
>
> - what is the worst part about the
Jabiru 2200 engines? the
> reliability, the oil leaks, the
fact that most don't go past 400 hours
> before failure and they simply
don't perform all that well on the
> aircraft compared to the Rotax
>
> - any fixes for the above issue(s)?
replace it with the Rotax
>
> - any modifications to get better
results with the Jabiru 2200? yes,
> sell it and replace it with the
Rotax. Honestly, they are just not a
> good fit and they just don't go
long enough to be classified as
> anywhere near reliable. Please look
at the aviation advertisements for
> Jabiru aircraft and you will see
dozens of advertisements or with a
> similar story, Jabiru 600 hours
engine 200 hours and so on. They quite
> proudly advertise they have done a
new top end and everything else
> when they are selling the aircraft
but if you buy a Rotax 99 times out
> of 100 you don't have the same
problems
>
> Thanks again, Justin
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
on behalf of Clive Cunningham
> <kmmotor@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 11, 2021
3:25:45 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel
for Ethanol
> I enquired with the manufacturer of
"STABIL" fuel stabiliser for long
> term storage, about aviation use.
> The answer was " No, for legal
reasons". Make of that what you will!
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Clive Cunningham
>
> K&M HD Motorcycles
>
> 10 Deacon Ave
>
> Richmond
>
> SA 5033
>
> Ph. +618 8234 1090
>
> kmmotor@...
>
> kmmotorcycles.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
on behalf of Michael Coates
> <mcoates@...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021
9:40 AM
> *To:* [email protected]
<[email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [XAIR] Testing fuel
for Ethanol
> You can also test with this tester
>
>
> <>
>
> Mo Davies via groups.io wrote on
10/10/2021 1:02 am:
>> Put a measured amount of water
into a suitable glass vessel. A
>> graduated test tube is ideal
for this. Mark the top of the water on
>> the glass vessel. Put in an
equal amount of Avgas. Stopper and shake
>> well. A thumb would work on a
test tube, although I do not advocate
>> using the thumb in direct
contact with petrol.
>> Check the water level again.
Ethanol, being hygroscopic, will mix
>> with the water, the level
difference being commensurate with the
>> percentage of ethanol in the
fuel. ?Presumably it is possible in this
>> way to remove the ethanol, but
there are risks involved with
>> ?processing“ fuel in this way.
>> Mo.
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2021, at 11:16,
jgregoris789@...
>>> <mailto:jgregoris789@...>
wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I am not aware
of this test - how does it work and what
do I need
>>> to buy to complete this?
>>>
>>> I am not particularly
concerned with ethanol content, but
rather
>>> detonation differences
between using MoGas shell 91 or 93
versus
>>> paying 40% for AvGas that
is nowhere near me. I would have to
drive
>>> 40km in a different
direction, only to fill 5, 20litre Cana
if
>>> AvGas, then drive back to
the grass field and put it in the
Hanuman.
>>> From a liability point of
view, it is not surprising how Jabiru
does
>>> not cover or advise MoGas
to be used - not even any additives,
which
>>> is another topic is like to
introduce. Why can't I purchase good
>>> quality shell 91 or 93
MoGas, and then add good quality octane
>>> booster with an additional
dose of seafoam, to preserve the fuel as
>>> it may sit for a couple
weeks?
>>>
>>> I have used many small and
big motors, two stroke and four stroke
>>> gasoline and Diesel
engines, but never airplane motors.
>>>
>>> Is there really a
difference - am I missing something or
is it the
>>> liability disclaimers that
have me all caught up in a knot?
>>>
>>> In essence, I don't see how
any problems would arise, knowing these
>>> Jabiru 2200 motors are
about 8.1:1 compression ratio, using 91
or 93
>>> shell MoGas, with seafoam
additive to preserve and offer some
better
>>> lubricity?
>>>
>>> Justin
>
> --
> With regards,??? Michael Coates
>
> AU +61 7 5522 0583
> USA +1 213 984 1237
>
>
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE
YEAR 2012
> Winner of the EAA August Raspet
Award 2012
> PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE
YEAR 2017
>
> mailto:mcoates@...?
<mailto:mcoates@...>
>
> skype name:?? xcomavionics
>
> Please note: because of the volume
of e-mail we are now receiving our
replies are
> done using voice recognition
software in an effort to speed up the
reply process.
> Sometimes the voice recognition
program inserts silly words or doesn't
actually
> do what it is meant to do.?
Occasionally these mistakes get through
our quick
> proofreading of each e-mail sent,
so please accept my apologies if the odd
mistake
> gets through.
>
> Legal Notice: The information
contained in this email is confidential
> and intended only to be read by the
person(s) to whom it is addressed.
> No one is authorized to copy, use,
disclose, distribute or rely on this
> information for any purpose
whatsoever. If this communication has
been
> sent to you in error, please email
the sender and delete the message.
>
> "Amateurs practice till they get it
right;
> Professionals practice till they
can’t get it wrong."
>
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR
2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award
2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR
2017
mailto:mcoates@...
skype name:?? xcomavionics
Please note: because of the volume of
e-mail we are now receiving our replies
are
done using voice recognition software in
an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program
inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally
these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so
please accept my apologies if the odd
mistake
gets through.
Legal Notice: The information contained
in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the
person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use,
disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever.
If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the
sender and delete the message.
"Amateurs practice till they get it
right;
Professionals practice till they can’t
get it wrong."
--
With regards,??? Michael Coates
?
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
?
?
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2012
Winner of the EAA August Raspet Award 2012
PIPISTREL AIRCRAFT DEALER OF THE YEAR 2017
?
mailto:mcoates@...
?
skype name:?? xcomavionics
?
Please note: because of the volume of e-mail we are now receiving our replies are
done using voice recognition software in an effort to speed up the reply process.
Sometimes the voice recognition program inserts silly words or doesn't actually
do what it is meant to do.? Occasionally these mistakes get through our quick
proofreading of each e-mail sent, so please accept my apologies if the odd mistake
gets through.
?
Legal Notice: The information contained in this email is confidential
and intended only to be read by the person(s) to whom it is addressed.
No one is authorized to copy, use, disclose, distribute or rely on this
information for any purpose whatsoever. If this communication has been
sent to you in error, please email the sender and delete the message.
?
"Amateurs practice till they get it right;
Professionals practice till they can’t get it wrong."
--
|
With regards, Michael
Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email:
info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft -
Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA
August Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft -
Dealer of the year 2017
|
--
|
With regards, Michael Coates
Pipistrel Aircraft Master Distributor for USA,
Australia & New Zealand
AU +61 7 5522 0583
USA +1 213 984 1237
Slovenia +386 3041 6470
Email: info@...
Web:
Skype: xcomavionics
|
|
|
Pipistrel Aircraft -
Dealer of the year 2012
Winner of the EAA August
Raspet Award 2012
Pipistrel Aircraft -
Dealer of the year 2017
|
|
