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Has anydody found out how to key an external amp without the CE-19? The CE-19 is, at least for me, too bulky for portable work. PTT on the ACC port is not going to ground when keyed ?
Thanks for any suggestions.
Jens DJ2GMS?
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Many amps have an RF sense circuit. If your amp of choice doesn’t have that feature you could copy that circuit from some other design and have it as a small auxiliary box complete with BNC connectors and relays. Try a search under “ TR circuits for RF sensing amplifier switching” or combinations of that.
If the relays in my QRO (100w) base station rig are any indication, the relays needed on the high powered side of the amp needn’t be that large.
Be careful if you design your own as obviously correct sequencing is important so that you don’t fry your 5105 or zap some relay contacts.
Mike - K7ITL
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On Dec 1, 2020, at 11:56 PM, Jens via groups.io < sielafje@...> wrote:
Has anydody found out how to key an external amp without the CE-19? The CE-19 is, at least for me, too bulky for portable work. PTT on the ACC port is not going to ground when keyed ?
Thanks for any suggestions.
Jens DJ2GMS?
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Jens,
Don’t know if this helps but your best option (in my opinion) is to build a custom cable that connects your amp to the ACC port in the 5105.
I have attached a picturing one of the 5105 manuals that shows the ACC pin functions. Hopefully with your amp manual you can match up the necessary wires and connectors to get the amp and radio to work together.
Please let us know what you get to work.
Cheers,
Brian
K0FBS
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Brian
K0FBS
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Brian,
I’m not totally sure but I think he is right in that the PTT pin on the ACC port is an input to the 5105 ranther than an output. I use that pin as an input when interfacing to a WOLPHI box for PSK and such.
Mike
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On Dec 2, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Brian <k0fbs73@...> wrote:
Jens,
Don’t know if this helps but your best option (in my opinion) is to build a custom cable that connects your amp to the ACC port in the 5105.
I have attached a picturing one of the 5105 manuals that shows the ACC pin functions. Hopefully with your amp manual you can match up the necessary wires and connectors to get the amp and radio to work together.
Please let us know what you get to work.
Cheers,
Brian
K0FBS
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Brian
K0FBS
<image0.jpeg>
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The PTT pin on the 5105 ACC connector is, I believe, an input line. I use it as such when driving my rig with a WOLPHI interface for PSK.
What might work well is an RF sensing TR switch as included in many amp designs. Here's a kit for one:
2" square. One small box with four BNC connectors and a cable to your 5105. It doesn't say how much current it draws from your source of 12v.
For $20 I wouldn't be able to buy the parts.
Mike
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Mike,
Thanks for that I do not have experience w/ an amp to work from so I was just taking a stab in the dark.
The CE-19 somehow triggers the amp. And something has to come from the radio to trigger the amp so I guessed it has to come out of the ACC port.
Brian
K0FBS
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Brian
K0FBS
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I have no serious idea about how that CE-19 works but it may well be designed like several other such interfaces. The Tigertronics Signalink and the WOLPHI interface and others detect a transmit direction audio signal, convert it to a DC signal and use that to key your transceiver.
In the case of the units I posted here, they detect an R.F. signal coming out of your transceiver and then perform the same conversion thus creating a DC signal that does whatever is appropriate. As well, they bypass the amp on receive.
All of these units can and are being home brewed but in the case of the QRP KITS unit, I could never buy the parts for what he is selling it for.
Mike
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Hi Jens, I have the X5105 and also use the CE-19. For portable operations like SOTA or WWFF I do not use an Aamplifier. Maybe I don't understand what you mean by 'too bulky' because the CE-19 does exactly what you want it to do and it's a very small box. To compare the size I've made a picture where the size can be clearly seen using the other known components.  In the CE-19 there is a very small relay of which the contact is on a 3.5" socket. With this relay you can switch an Amplifier galvanically isolated. All cables and plugs are included with the CE-19. The second picture shows 2 audio cables I made, one for my laptop which has a separate Microphone and Headset connection and the other for my tablet which has a 4 pole combined audio connection. Sometimes I like to make some FT8 or FT4 QSOs.  73 Dick? DL1CLM
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Hi everybody
tu for your suggestions.
The ptt pin on the acc port is definately not going to ground when txing.
Didn't see the rf sensing kit. I am just curiuos that shipping to Germany might be higher than the kit ?
Pretty sure the CE19 does not RF sensing as the antenna socket is not connected to that module.
It would be great if anybody who owns the CE19 could do a quick reverse engineering....
Tnx agn
Jens DJ2GMS?
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So to combine some information:
The CE-19 isn’t that large and is pretty much guaranteed to work with the 5105. And can be purchased through the same vendors as the 5105. Both important!
Most comercially available amplifiers already take care of bypassing the amplifier when in receive. Also important.
Since Jens hasn’t decided on an amplifier yet, he would probably find the CE-19 to be a good and probably trouble free solution. Plug in the CE-19 to the 5105 and the amp and operate. And the CE-19 includes all of the cables. Now I’m thinking of buying one myself!
Mike
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On Dec 2, 2020, at 9:57 PM, Jens via groups.io < sielafje@...> wrote:
Hi everybody
tu for your suggestions.
The ptt pin on the acc port is definately not going to ground when txing.
Didn't see the rf sensing kit. I am just curiuos that shipping to Germany might be higher than the kit ?
Pretty sure the CE19 does not RF sensing as the antenna socket is not connected to that module.
It would be great if anybody who owns the CE19 could do a quick reverse engineering....
Tnx agn
Jens DJ2GMS?
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Two separate responses?
1st. Dick give us some more details on the tablet connection. Kind of tablet, what you run on it through the audio cable and maybe a quick diagram of the 4 pole connections. ?I would be interested in building one myself.?
2nd. Mike, I would encourage you to get the CE-19. It really does make connections between the X5105 and other items (Amps, Soundcards & computers easier). ?I suspect one of Jens concerns with it is the same as mine. One Julian OH8STN has expressed in his YouTube videos. The CE-19 is to fragile/open to take out into the field. It appears to me to be designed for desk station use only.?
A solution I have thought is to design an enclosure for it and then have it printed on a 3D printer. However, I don’t have a 3D printer nor know how to design those kinds of items for one.?
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On Dec 3, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Mike Colyar <mike@...> wrote:
? So to combine some information:
The CE-19 isn’t that large and is pretty much guaranteed to work with the 5105. And can be purchased through the same vendors as the 5105. Both important!
Most comercially available amplifiers already take care of bypassing the amplifier when in receive. Also important.
Since Jens hasn’t decided on an amplifier yet, he would probably find the CE-19 to be a good and probably trouble free solution. Plug in the CE-19 to the 5105 and the amp and operate. And the CE-19 includes all of the cables. Now I’m thinking of buying one myself!
Mike
On Dec 2, 2020, at 9:57 PM, Jens via groups.io < sielafje@...> wrote:
Hi everybody
tu for your suggestions.
The ptt pin on the acc port is definately not going to ground when txing.
Didn't see the rf sensing kit. I am just curiuos that shipping to Germany might be higher than the kit ?
Pretty sure the CE19 does not RF sensing as the antenna socket is not connected to that module.
It would be great if anybody who owns the CE19 could do a quick reverse engineering....
Tnx agn
Jens DJ2GMS?
--
Brian
K0FBS
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Brian,
As far as use with an Android tablet or phone, I strongly reccomend the WOLPHI interface box. Hardy enough to take a beating in portable operation and a turn key setup. I have had nothing but good experiences with his software as well. The first time I turned on his PSK app on my phone and saw the waterfall display start flowing down the screen was game over for me. I know of no other way to operate PSK with a smaller weight and volume than with a phone and his stuff.
I have made any number of contacts with no cables at all. Just hold the phone mic somewhere near the 5105 speaker for receive and on transmit, again hold the phone speaker near the 5105 microphone and push the PTT button. Not elegant but amazing none the less.
I will probably get a CE-19 for operation when RV camping with a laptop. I use a Mac and operating PSK with cocoaModem is a pleasure.
Another accessory I strongly recommend is a small, inexpensive digital sound recorder to record cw AND psk (or voice) exchanges in order to sort out things later for logging. I picked up my little Olympus DS-2 for $20 including shipping. It will hold a weekend of recording. Beats a pencil and paper with gloves on.
Mike
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Two separate responses?
1st. Dick give us some more details on the tablet connection. Kind of tablet, what you run on it through the audio cable and maybe a quick diagram of the 4 pole connections. ?I would be interested in building one myself.?
2nd. Mike, I would encourage you to get the CE-19. It really does make connections between the X5105 and other items (Amps, Soundcards & computers easier). ?I suspect one of Jens concerns with it is the same as mine. One Julian OH8STN has expressed in his YouTube videos. The CE-19 is to fragile/open to take out into the field. It appears to me to be designed for desk station use only.?
A solution I have thought is to design an enclosure for it and then have it printed on a 3D printer. However, I don’t have a 3D printer nor know how to design those kinds of items for one.? On Dec 3, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Mike Colyar <mike@...> wrote:
? So to combine some information:
The CE-19 isn’t that large and is pretty much guaranteed to work with the 5105. And can be purchased through the same vendors as the 5105. Both important!
Most comercially available amplifiers already take care of bypassing the amplifier when in receive. Also important.
Since Jens hasn’t decided on an amplifier yet, he would probably find the CE-19 to be a good and probably trouble free solution. Plug in the CE-19 to the 5105 and the amp and operate. And the CE-19 includes all of the cables. Now I’m thinking of buying one myself!
Mike
On Dec 2, 2020, at 9:57 PM, Jens via groups.io < sielafje@...> wrote:
Hi everybody
tu for your suggestions.
The ptt pin on the acc port is definately not going to ground when txing.
Didn't see the rf sensing kit. I am just curiuos that shipping to Germany might be higher than the kit ?
Pretty sure the CE19 does not RF sensing as the antenna socket is not connected to that module.
It would be great if anybody who owns the CE19 could do a quick reverse engineering....
Tnx agn
Jens DJ2GMS?
-- Brian K0FBS
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Hi Brian, Here is the schematic of all connectors on the CE-19 and the color of the supplied wires. I'm not sure if the 4 pole plug is a standard connector. For my Lenovo 10" Tablet and Lenovo Laptop these are the right connections for digital mode. To get the X5105 on TX I use the blue USB CAT interface, but you can also use the line-in Vox. The big advantage of the CAT interface is the automatic adjustment of the transmission frequency when you make high or low audio range FT4 or FT8 broadcasts. This keeps your audio signal always in the optimal range of your filters. 73? Dick? DL1CLM 
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On Dec 4, 2020, at 4:46 AM, Dick de V <dl1clm@...> wrote:
?Hi Brian, Here is the schematic of all connectors on the CE-19 and the color of the supplied wires. I'm not sure if the 4 pole plug is a standard connector. For my Lenovo 10" Tablet and Lenovo Laptop these are the right connections for digital mode. To get the X5105 on TX I use the blue USB CAT interface, but you can also use the line-in Vox. The big advantage of the CAT interface is the automatic adjustment of the transmission frequency when you make high or low audio range FT4 or FT8 broadcasts. This keeps your audio signal always in the optimal range of your filters. 73? Dick? DL1CLM <dummyfile.0.part>
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Brian
K0FBS
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On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 01:23 PM, Mike Colyar wrote:
Another accessory I strongly recommend is a small, inexpensive digital sound recorder to record cw AND psk (or voice) exchanges in order to sort out things later for logging. I picked up my little Olympus DS-2 for $20 including shipping. It will hold a weekend of recording. Beats a pencil and paper with gloves on.
For somewhat less versatile or flexible use, I can suggest a free Android app called "Smart Recorder."? I've used it in meetings and at informal concerts.? For logging, though, I think it would probably have to be on a different Android device, to be able to record continuously, anyway. About the CE-19 -? My X5105 is the 'export' model and came with the CE-19.? For those who haven't seen one, it's basically just a "breakout box" to make the signals on the mini-DIN port/cable accessible individually by splitting them up to separate connectors.? The PTT line is for a computer to control transmit mode, like for FT8.? My IC-706 has the same feature. Off topic a bit, while looking for Xiegu info, I saw mentioned for the? G90 that the export model, with the plastic cover over the screen, has a different screen for visibility in daylight outdoors.? I haven't seen that anywhere else, though, and don't know of a way to check on it.? (Well, maybe email Radioddity and ask.)? I thought the sunlight visibility idea was a good one, since the radio seems intended for outdoor use. -- Doug, K8RFT
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Thanks Dick, well done! Is ptt going to ground on tx? If so there must some parts on the CE-19 board which convert the signal from the ACC port. Any chance to find that out?
Thanks agn and best 73 de Jens DJ2GMS?
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How does this CE-19 work on CW for external power amplifier?
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Here’s the schematic from the VA3IUL circuit. Just a couple of small relays. There is no way around needing four R.F. connectors unless you build it in to your amplifier. In that case you would only need the connctors that are already part of the amp. Thats’ the way I would do it. Mike
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How does this CE-19 work on CW for external power amplifier?
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Break In not Full Break In
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I can’t tell from the schematic just how rapidly that circuit will respond. It all looks fairly low impedance and there are no large capacitors to give any big hang times. I think you might have to built it and put a scope on it.
I have a circuit rather like that on my QRO amp. (1500w key down forever) and up to as fast as I usually operate, maybe 20 or so, no smoke has escaped.
Mike
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On Dec 5, 2020, at 10:57 AM, Dick de V < dl1clm@...> wrote:
Break In not Full Break In
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Brian Smith
