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Singer 9W3?

Jon Helig All Messages By This Member #3434 I added a photo of what I believe is a Singer 9W3.? I don't recall seeing one before.? 9W3 is described as "Is the same as 9W1 (Singer made D9) with the following exceptions:? Arm is fitted for hand attachment 205946 and bed for hinge 2992b.? With Singer ornamentation.? (for export only).? Pic in group photo's under "Singer 9W3?"
Miller Fulks All Messages By This Member #3437 Hi Jon; Do you have this machine or at least access to it? If so I would like a few questions answered about it.? First, how did you determine it was "For a Handcrank"? Does it have milling cuts & drilled & tapped holes in the pillar? To date, I have not seen a Singer 9W fitted with a crank, but the?W&W D-9s I have seen did not have a clutch knob on them, which this one appears to have. I have seen two types of W&W D-9 handcranks. One has the belt pulley replaced by a small gear & is for handcrank?use only. The other has an extended main shaft?& mounts the gear outside the belt pulley so is a combination treadle & handcrank machine. Miller/TN On Friday, March 29, 2019, 3:25:41 AM CDT, Jon Helig <jlhmnj@...> wrote: I added a photo of what I believe is a Singer 9W3.? I don't recall seeing one before.? 9W3 is described as "Is the same as 9W1 (Singer made D9) with the following exceptions:? Arm is fitted for hand attachment 205946 and bed for hinge 2992b.? With Singer ornamentation.? (for export only).? Pic in group photo's under "Singer 9W3?"
Jon Helig All Messages By This Member #3438 "Hi Jon; Do you have this machine or at least access to it? If so I would like a few questions answered about it.? First, how did you determine it was "For a Handcrank"? Does it have milling cuts & drilled & tapped holes in the pillar? To date, I have not seen a Singer 9W fitted with a crank, but the?W&W D-9s I have seen did not have a clutch knob on them, which this one appears to have. I have seen two types of W&W D-9 handcranks. One has the belt pulley replaced by a small gear & is for handcrank?use only. The other has an extended main shaft?& mounts the gear outside the belt pulley so is a combination treadle & handcrank machine. Miller/TN" Miller, The sewing machine was discussed in a Facebook group so I have no access to it.? I can ask for some pics of the pillar where the HC is attached and hand wheel.? I looked for a 205946 handcrank pic without success.? I reached the conclusion it is "For a Handcrank" and a 9W3 by process of elimination.? I could not determine if the arm was prepped for HC with available pics.? ?My thinking was aW&W D9 with Singer decals (different than Pearl) is either a 9W3 or a D9 where someone removed the W&W decals and applied Singer ornamentation.? Nothing else seemed to fit.? I thought the 9W3 more likely.? I forgot to mention the serial number, 2949558, is earlier than I would have thought likely for a 9W. List of Singer 9W's: ?? Jon toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 5:56 PM Miller Fulks <mmf38@...> wrote: Hi Jon; Do you have this machine or at least access to it? If so I would like a few questions answered about it.? First, how did you determine it was "For a Handcrank"? Does it have milling cuts & drilled & tapped holes in the pillar? To date, I have not seen a Singer 9W fitted with a crank, but the?W&W D-9s I have seen did not have a clutch knob on them, which this one appears to have. I have seen two types of W&W D-9 handcranks. One has the belt pulley replaced by a small gear & is for handcrank?use only. The other has an extended main shaft?& mounts the gear outside the belt pulley so is a combination treadle & handcrank machine. Miller/TN On Friday, March 29, 2019, 3:25:41 AM CDT, Jon Helig <jlhmnj@...> wrote: I added a photo of what I believe is a Singer 9W3.? I don't recall seeing one before.? 9W3 is described as "Is the same as 9W1 (Singer made D9) with the following exceptions:? Arm is fitted for hand attachment 205946 and bed for hinge 2992b.? With Singer ornamentation.? (for export only).? Pic in group photo's under "Singer 9W3?"
Jon Helig All Messages By This Member #3439 Miller, I found a good pic of the hand crank prep work, casting for a 9W8.? ?The 9W3 uses the same HC as the 9W8.? Photo added to Singer 9W3? album. Jon
Miller Fulks All Messages By This Member #3440 Jon; I have been unable to find any info on just when the 9W3 & 9W4 were introduced. Both are listed in the 1908 catalog & are stated to have Singer Decoration. I have copies of small (Not Complete) Singer catalogs from the US for 1908 & 1913 & for the UK from 1911 & 1912. The US 1908 catalog shows the 9W1 & 9W2 as both having W&W decoration & the 9W1 is pictured in W&W cabinets. The 9W2 is shown as having both the belt pulley & gear for the crank. & is pictured in a W&W portable case. The 1911 UK catalogs only show the 9W as a treadle & while not stated as such it would I believe be the 9W7 as it is shown in singer cabinets & with Singer decoration. neither show a hand version. The 1913 US catalog does not show a 9W at all, but does have the Singer 115 rotary listed.? I highly suspect that when Singer took over the W&W factory there were many machines in process at various stages of completion. No doubt there are many that do not "Pigeon Hole" into nice little categories as we list them today. It would sure be interesting to get more detail on that machine you posted about. Miller/TN? On Friday, March 29, 2019, 6:35:40 PM CDT, Jon Helig <jlhmnj@...> wrote: Miller, I found a good pic of the hand crank prep work, casting for a 9W8.? ?The 9W3 uses the same HC as the 9W8.? Photo added to Singer 9W3? album. Jon
Jon Helig All Messages By This Member #3442 ?"I highly suspect that when Singer took over the W&W factory there were many machines in process at various stages of completion. No doubt there are many that do not "Pigeon Hole" into nice little categories as we list them today. It would sure be interesting to get more detail on that machine you posted about.Miller/TN" Hi Miller, I will ask the machine owner for a picture of the handwheel and pillar area where a hand crank would attach to.? Is there any other photos or information I should ask for? Jon
Miller Fulks All Messages By This Member #3443 Jon; Ask about part numbers on various parts, particularly around the hook & bobbin area. To date, I have never seen a W&W built machine with part numbers but Singers normally have them. This could help determine if it is indeed a Singer or a re-decaled?W&W, which the SN might suggest. Miller/TN??
Jon Helig All Messages By This Member #3444 OK,? I know what you mean about the Singer part numbers.? The sewing machine is located in St Petersberg, Russia.? I sent him a group D9 manual so hopefully I will hear something.? ?At one time I had an 1890's D9 where a clever mechanic replaced the bobbin case and hook area with 9W7 parts that used the 221 bobbin.? I couldn't tell if the shaft was replaced or not.? I seem to stumble upon lots of odd W&W related stuff, lol. Jon toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Mon, Apr 1, 2019 at 4:42 PM Miller Fulks <mmf38@...> wrote: Jon; Ask about part numbers on various parts, particularly around the hook & bobbin area. To date, I have never seen a W&W built machine with part numbers but Singers normally have them. This could help determine if it is indeed a Singer or a re-decaled?W&W, which the SN might suggest. Miller/TN??
Jon Helig All Messages By This Member #3451 "Jon; Ask about part numbers on various parts, particularly around the hook & bobbin area. To date, I have never seen a W&W built machine with part numbers but Singers normally have them. This could help determine if it is indeed a Singer or a re-decaled?W&W, which the SN might suggest. Miller/TN"?? I heard back from the Russian owner of the? D9 / 9W1 with Singer decals.? The machine head is not prepped for a hand crank and has no Singer part numbers in the hook area.? So not an exact match to 9W3 as far as the hand crank prep.? ?The mystery remains whether the Singer decals are original or not.? I'd be curious to hear from anyone that owns or has pics of a D9 with Singer decals that fit W&W cabinets. Jon
Miller Fulks All Messages By This Member #3452 Jon; All the 9W1 machines I have seen had?W&W decals, fit W&W cabinets & had Singer part numbers on various parts. The 9W2 was said to be the same machine fitted with hand attachment. The 9W7 machines have Singer decals, fit Singer cabinets & may have either the bagel or flat bobbin. The 9W3 was fitted for the hand attachment, 9W4 had it installed & 9W5 added a knee lift. These three all had Singer decoration. To date, I have not seen any of the Siner built machines other than the 9W1 & 9W7.? No being fitted for a hand attachment & not carrying any serial numbers & with the SN below 3,000,000, my inclination is that it is a W&W D-9 that has had the W&W decals replaced with Singer ones. Miller/TN On Tuesday, April 9, 2019, 5:39:36 PM CDT, Jon Helig <jlhmnj@...> wrote: "Jon; Ask about part numbers on various parts, particularly around the hook & bobbin area. To date, I have never seen a W&W built machine with part numbers but Singers normally have them. This could help determine if it is indeed a Singer or a re-decaled?W&W, which the SN might suggest. Miller/TN"?? I heard back from the Russian owner of the? D9 / 9W1 with Singer decals.? The machine head is not prepped for a hand crank and has no Singer part numbers in the hook area.? So not an exact match to 9W3 as far as the hand crank prep.? ?The mystery remains whether the Singer decals are original or not.? I'd be curious to hear from anyone that owns or has pics of a D9 with Singer decals that fit W&W cabinets. Jon
Jon Helig All Messages By This Member #3453 On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 10:57 PM, Miller Fulks wrote: Miller, Thanks for the insight, greatly appreciated.? One of my many sewing machine projects is trying to find a 9W1 made before serial number? 3 million.? No conclusive luck so far but it keeps me out of trouble.?? Jon ? "No being fitted for a hand attachment & not carrying any serial numbers & with the SN below 3,000,000, my inclination is that it is a W&W D-9 that has had the W&W decals replaced with Singer ones. Miller/TN"
Jon Helig All Messages By This Member #3795 I spotted another D9 with Singer decals and W&W footprint similar to the earlier one in the conversation.? These photos are under Singer 9W3?? I wasn't able to add the new photos but the decals are very similar with a W&W badge on the bed and a brass Singer badge on the pillar.? The serial number is later, 3050482.? It is a treadle with Singer irons, a single drawer, and coffin top.? I believe the machine is in the Ukraine but not positive.?? Jon
Miller Fulks All Messages By This Member #3798 Jon;? If this link works it is to a page from a 1908 Singer/Bridgeport catalog describing the 9W1 Through the 9W5. Based on this catalog & your description this sounds like it?is more apt to be a 9W7 to me. My 9W7 has a higher SN?@ 3,185,801 & is late enough it uses the late flat-sided bobbin. Miller/TN
Jon Helig All Messages By This Member #3800 Here are some photos.? Hopefully the Flickr link works.? This is the second export example I've seen. Jon
[email protected] #3990 I like the photos you put on the page of the W3.? Most interesting is the cut out on the back of the arm presumably for a motor mount bracket.??

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