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Hi There!
I just brought home my first Wheeler & Wilson!? Its a No.8 in a treadle base.? The machine looks like it has not been abused (no scratches, glass foot still intact), but it was stored in a garage so it has some amount of rust.? I'm pretty good at restoring 1930's Singers, etc. but I've never tackled anything this old before!?
I see that they recommended whale oil on these.? Is there anything different about removing varnish left by whale oil from varnish left by petroleum oil?? I'm going to assume there isn't unless someone here says different...
I've got a few newbee questions:
1. Does anyone have a method to create working keys for the coffin top and the drawers?
2. Is the brightwork on these chrome, or nickel plate?
3. Where can one find an extra needle or three?
3a. Also, bobbins, same question...
Nice to meet you all!
--Sam
Here's my girl:
Previous owner seems to have assembled the base trestle upside down...
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A great looking machine.? I do not believe you will find "whale oil" anymore.? I use common mineral oil but some prefer a "sewing machine oil."?
The Wheeler & Wilson Facebook page has had notices for sale of needles in the recent weeks. I do not have a #8 but understand bobbins are tough finds. Good luck.?
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 2:25 AM Sam Cherroff < gio@...> wrote:
Hi There!
I just brought home my first Wheeler & Wilson!? Its a No.8 in a treadle base.? The machine looks like it has not been abused (no scratches, glass foot still intact), but it was stored in a garage so it has some amount of rust.? I'm pretty good at restoring 1930's Singers, etc. but I've never tackled anything this old before!?
I see that they recommended whale oil on these.? Is there anything different about removing varnish left by whale oil from varnish left by petroleum oil?? I'm going to assume there isn't unless someone here says different...
I've got a few newbee questions:
1. Does anyone have a method to create working keys for the coffin top and the drawers?
2. Is the brightwork on these chrome, or nickel plate?
3. Where can one find an extra needle or three?
3a. Also, bobbins, same question...
Nice to meet you all!
--Sam
Here's my girl:
Previous owner seems to have assembled the base trestle upside down...
Attachments:
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Welcome Sam, congratulations on your new machine it should clean up beautifully. None of my W&W machines appeared to have been lubricated with whale oil, or at least had been oiled with SM oil long enough that there was not whale oil varnish. But I did get a New Home that had terribly varnish that I'm sure was whale oil. I though I was never going to get it clean. What worked for me was GOJO original non-pumice hand cleaner. I put it on the interior parts, and let it sit for about a half hour, then wiped. Once cleaned, I flooded the machine with SM oil and wiped again. The sludge I got out of that machine was truly amazing. My No. 8 (and 9) just use a square key, if that is the case for your machine you should be able to use any square SM key, easy to find on Ebay. Brightwork is nickel .?Commercial chrome plating wasn't developed until 1924.
For needles, check with Jon Helig,?
The early and late No. 8s used different bobbins, so make you know which one your need. The late 8 uses the same bobbin as the early 9. The early 8 bobbins are particularly hard to find (and expensive), but even the late bobbins will take a bit of looking.
Have fun with your new machine.
Tammy - Massachusetts?
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Hi Sam -- welcome!
Tammy's given you some excellent answers. I'll just add that I
tend to attack dried whale oil with elbow grease and steel wool,
which works well, but you do need to have things disassembled far
enough that you can be sure to rinse/wipe off any of the steel
wool "dust" that gets left behind. I've never tried Tammy's "soak
with GoJo" trick -- but I will next time. (But let me emphasize
that you want "non-pumice" GoJo.)
paul
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paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 66.6 degrees)
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I wrote:
> ... I'll just add that I
> tend to attack dried whale oil with elbow grease and steel wool,
I should have said, "elbow grease, steel wool, and sewing machine oil".
I would never simply use the steel wool dry, as I implied before.
paul
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paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 68.9 degrees)
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Not just any steel wool has to be 0000? yep 4 zeros for extra fine stuff not Brillo Pad (might by a UK thing)
don't use -?? / or an angle grinder? ;-))?
Oil varnish can be from using 3in1 oil?? ?terrible stuff for sewing machines over years things will jamb up solid
WD40 if you use it as a cleaner wipe it off ASAP. it is mainly "baby oil" (I wonder if they squeeze them)?
WD40 will also eat plastic by extracting the oils and making them brittle I one used it on a plastic clock, it did not last long after I did.
See? for info about what is in WD40
all the best
john
I have a WW9 quite modern compared to the WW8
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 15:24, Paul Fox < pgf@...> wrote: I wrote:
?> ...? I'll just add that I
?> tend to attack dried whale oil with elbow grease and steel wool,
I should have said, "elbow grease, steel wool, and sewing machine oil".
I would never simply use the steel wool dry, as I implied before.
paul
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paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 68.9 degrees)
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I'm hoping that it won't be too difficult to disassemble.? Trying to stay away from any kind of abrasive or steel wool on old machines.? My usual go-to for varnish removing is to drop the parts in an ultrasonic cleaner filled with lacquer thinner. (Hope it works on whale oil varnish!)? If there's rust I'll follow that up with an evaporust bath, also in the ultrasonic.? I've just learned how to do nickel plating and might try it on some of these parts.?
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That is interesting Sam. Do you have a simple jeweler's type ultrasonic machine? I have only used the cleaner specified for the machine. I would love to try other liquids such as lacquer thinner or evaporust, but I thought they might damage the tub.?
-- MariaSmoky Mountains of Tennessee
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maria wrote:
> That is interesting Sam. Do you have a simple jeweler's type ultrasonic
> machine? I have only used the cleaner specified for the machine. I would
> love to try other liquids such as lacquer thinner or evaporust, but I
> thought they might damage the tub.
Those liquids likely won't damage the tub.
But in my ultrasonic cleaner, I never put the cleaner directly into
the tub. I put water in the tub, and I put the cleaner into a glass
jar or plastic tub, and put that into the tub. You need to adjust the
levels so your jar or second tub doesn't float. Makes it much easier
to reuse your chosen cleaner, and there's no real cleanup of the
ultrasonic tub necessary -- just dump it and dry it.
(If I'm cleaning something too big for this method, then I do put the
cleaner directly into the ultrasonic's tub. But that's rare.)
paul
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paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma, where it's 81.3 degrees)
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Hi you could try using plastic / glass containers and keep just water in the tub?
Ultimate Tips For Using An Ultrasonic Cleaner – Video
I am sure doing this will absorb some of the vibrations.?
John
That is interesting Sam. Do you have a simple jeweler's type ultrasonic machine? I have only used the cleaner specified for the machine. I would love to try other liquids such as lacquer thinner or evaporust, but I thought they might damage the tub.?
-- MariaSmoky Mountains of Tennessee
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Hi I worked with a man that worked on clocks and he use whale oil which is more of a wax and less likely to dry out or turn to a varnish compared to 3in1 oil?
Just in case people are interested
Another odd oil is Neatsfoot oil
Usually used on leather or in metalworking
Our family business was Blacksmithing in the UK from 1890 onwards so I was introduced to quite a lot of things by my grandad, that are not common today. Back in the 1970s we used a brown oily liquid called GUNK it acted like a degreaser, not the same as the one available today We often used?Carbon tetrachloride. It was 20y later that I found out it was dangerous.
I still have this micrometer that my grandad made around 1930s
Funny old world? John
On Wed, 25 Aug 2021 at 06:34, Sam Cherroff < gio@...> wrote: I'm hoping that it won't be too difficult to disassemble.? Trying to stay away from any kind of abrasive or steel wool on old machines.? My usual go-to for varnish removing is to drop the parts in an ultrasonic cleaner filled with lacquer thinner. (Hope it works on whale oil varnish!)? If there's rust I'll follow that up with an evaporust bath, also in the ultrasonic.? I've just learned how to do nickel plating and might try it on some of these parts.?
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Paul, my ultrasonic cleaner is very small, so I add the cleaner to warm water needed to dissolve it and add all to the tub. I wish it was sophisticated enough to have a removable tub, and closer to th sink needed to clean the unit every few minutes. Probably need to look at upgrades.?
-- MariaSmoky Mountains of Tennessee
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John,? Wow that is huge! Mine is just a small jewelry ultasonic cleaner.
-- MariaSmoky Mountains of Tennessee
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I use ultrasonic cleaners for various purposes, including cleaning old sewing machine parts.? I used to use ones from HF, but they are relatively small and hard to drain, especially because the tub is not sealed against case.? These days good ones come from China and are sold in eBay under various brand names, and they are pretty cheap, including the large (6L) ones.? The newer ones have a drain spigot.? The tub is stainless so you can use lots of fluids in them without damaging the cleaner.?
I tend to use dilutions of citrus cleaner, a strong basic cleaner called ZEP purple degreaser, and Evaporust.? You need to be careful, though, as the ultrasonic cleaning can be really effective and can attack surfaces in ways that you don't expect, including plated surfaces, especially if you are using fluids with high or low pH.? My advice would be to try the least aggressive fluids, starting with soapy water, and work your way up.? I wouldn't use it on painted or japanned pieces unless you are planning to media blast them and repaint.
And you need to recoat the parts with a light layer of oil after you finish - the ultrasonic cleaning is often so effective that the parts start to surface rust again quickly.
For freeing corroded threaded connections I use Blue Creeper.? It's actually much better that other penetrating oils.? Just a drop and then give it time.
I use Neatsfoot oil quite a bit in leather restoration, and it does work to remove SMO gunk.? True neatsfoot oil is a natural substance derived from cattle during processing, so it's not very harsh.? Lots of things sold as "neatsfoot" are actually blended with petroleum oil products and not labelled as such.? They are not very good for leather; I would be less trusting of them for japanned SM parts.? Best to make sure your neatsfoot oil is labelled as "100% pure."? It's a little more expensive but well worth it in my opinion.
My sense is that removing really old SMO deposits is like restoring antique leather. You have to appreciate that it took 100+ years for the the situation to get the way it is now.? Even if it takes a week of treatment to turn things around (or months with leather), that is still super quick. It may be unrealistic to expect that the restorative process will work in just a few minutes.?
Hope this information helps.
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Hi
See what an ultrasonic cleaner does to aluminium kitchen foil HOLEY heck, yep it really does cut holes.
I was also told about the dangers of gemstones I think it was Emerald that could be damaged.
BTW just bought a 1908 Singer 28k for ?25, 3 hours ago, a few problems but it is running well now. This is the second machine that had a new shaft and top tension disks - you have to add a washer behind the disks to give clearance for the the hair spring take up or it binds on the back disk.
I now have a finger blister while freeing up the large twisty screw that alters the stich length, the internal cam was solid.??
resting now earlier job was fault finding my friends strimmer, grease from the shaft had gummed up the carbon brushes, he said it works when it is hot ie. left in the sun.
all the best to all John
I use ultrasonic cleaners for various purposes, including cleaning old sewing machine parts.? I used to use ones from HF, but they are relatively small and hard to drain, especially because the tub is not sealed against case.? These days good ones come from China and are sold in eBay under various brand names, and they are pretty cheap, including the large (6L) ones.? The newer ones have a drain spigot.? The tub is stainless so you can use lots of fluids in them without damaging the cleaner.?
I tend to use dilutions of citrus cleaner, a strong basic cleaner called ZEP purple degreaser, and Evaporust.? You need to be careful, though, as the ultrasonic cleaning can be really effective and can attack surfaces in ways that you don't expect, including plated surfaces, especially if you are using fluids with high or low pH.? My advice would be to try the least aggressive fluids, starting with soapy water, and work your way up.? I wouldn't use it on painted or japanned pieces unless you are planning to media blast them and repaint.
And you need to recoat the parts with a light layer of oil after you finish - the ultrasonic cleaning is often so effective that the parts start to surface rust again quickly.
For freeing corroded threaded connections I use Blue Creeper.? It's actually much better that other penetrating oils.? Just a drop and then give it time.
I use Neatsfoot oil quite a bit in leather restoration, and it does work to remove SMO gunk.? True neatsfoot oil is a natural substance derived from cattle during processing, so it's not very harsh.? Lots of things sold as "neatsfoot" are actually blended with petroleum oil products and not labelled as such.? They are not very good for leather; I would be less trusting of them for japanned SM parts.? Best to make sure your neatsfoot oil is labelled as "100% pure."? It's a little more expensive but well worth it in my opinion.
My sense is that removing really old SMO deposits is like restoring antique leather. You have to appreciate that it took 100+ years for the the situation to get the way it is now.? Even if it takes a week of treatment to turn things around (or months with leather), that is still super quick. It may be unrealistic to expect that the restorative process will work in just a few minutes.?
Hope this information helps.
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Tammy Tatum
Maria Goetz