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Re: Reversing the bobbin winder on a #9

 

Hi Paul,
Not a ? Or comment on the winder, but I did notice your bobbin appears to be different from my machine, or is it the angel of the photo? My bobbins are bagel shaped. Just curiosity mainly!

Thank you. Enid.

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Fox <pgf@...>
To: Wheeler and Wilson-Sewing-Machines <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 14:09:29 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Wheeler_and_Wilson-Sewing-Machines] Reversing the bobbin winder on a #9

My #9 (1889 or so) came to me with a treadle from which the pedal, the
pitman, and the band wheel had all been removed. I used to wonder why,
until I noticed the three clearly non-factory holes in the pillar,
which were almost certainly added to mount a motor. When they added
the motor, they likely stripped the irons at the same time. I guess
that made sense, to a modern sewist in the 1920s or 30s.

More recently I got a new treadle. (This is the one I asked about the
other day, missing the drop leaf support arm.) It came with another
#9, and when I installed mine in the treadle, I noticed a significant
difference: the bobbin winder wheel on my original head sat to the
left of the pivot arm, had a tire on it, and rode somewhat off-center
on the hand wheel. The wheel on my "new" machine has no tire, sits
to the right of the pivot arm, and, probably like all of your #9
machines, the wheel rides on the belt.

My conclusion was that when they electrified, they also reversed
the bobbin winder in the arm, since there was no longer a belt to
drive it. Flipping it side to side let them drive it from the wheel.
You can see the two bobbin winders in the first attached picture.

I wanted to flip it back, but it's not at all obvious how one removes
the bobbin winder from its pivoting arm, and it was a little scary
finding out. I tried unscrewing it, by clamping the spindle in the
jaws of my drill press, but that got me nowhere. So I decided it must
be pressed on. I had a spare I could use from the "new" machine,
so I resorted to a hammer. :-)

I balanced the wheel on top of the (loose) jaws of my vise, with the
spindle hanging down, and used a nail punch and a small hammer to hit
the end of the axle. A few taps and I felt it give. It took me more
time to find the axle after it fell on the cellar floor than it did to
get it out. I cleaned all the pieces (for the first time in many many
decades, I'm sure), flipped it around, set the wheel on a
block of wood with a small clearance hole for the axle to come
through a bit, and tapped it in the other way.

So. If your bobbin winder points the wrong way, don't replace it. Just
hit it with a hammer. (Carefully. :-)

(Many Singer bobbin winders have similar construction. I'll certainly try
this trick next time I need to clean one up.)

paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma)


Attachments:
ww9_winder_01.jpg: /g/Wheeler_and_Wilson-Sewing-Machines/attachment/4111/0
ww9_winder_04.jpg: /g/Wheeler_and_Wilson-Sewing-Machines/attachment/4111/1


Reversing the bobbin winder on a #9

 

My #9 (1889 or so) came to me with a treadle from which the pedal, the
pitman, and the band wheel had all been removed. I used to wonder why,
until I noticed the three clearly non-factory holes in the pillar,
which were almost certainly added to mount a motor. When they added
the motor, they likely stripped the irons at the same time. I guess
that made sense, to a modern sewist in the 1920s or 30s.

More recently I got a new treadle. (This is the one I asked about the
other day, missing the drop leaf support arm.) It came with another
#9, and when I installed mine in the treadle, I noticed a significant
difference: the bobbin winder wheel on my original head sat to the
left of the pivot arm, had a tire on it, and rode somewhat off-center
on the hand wheel. The wheel on my "new" machine has no tire, sits
to the right of the pivot arm, and, probably like all of your #9
machines, the wheel rides on the belt.

My conclusion was that when they electrified, they also reversed
the bobbin winder in the arm, since there was no longer a belt to
drive it. Flipping it side to side let them drive it from the wheel.
You can see the two bobbin winders in the first attached picture.

I wanted to flip it back, but it's not at all obvious how one removes
the bobbin winder from its pivoting arm, and it was a little scary
finding out. I tried unscrewing it, by clamping the spindle in the
jaws of my drill press, but that got me nowhere. So I decided it must
be pressed on. I had a spare I could use from the "new" machine,
so I resorted to a hammer. :-)

I balanced the wheel on top of the (loose) jaws of my vise, with the
spindle hanging down, and used a nail punch and a small hammer to hit
the end of the axle. A few taps and I felt it give. It took me more
time to find the axle after it fell on the cellar floor than it did to
get it out. I cleaned all the pieces (for the first time in many many
decades, I'm sure), flipped it around, set the wheel on a
block of wood with a small clearance hole for the axle to come
through a bit, and tapped it in the other way.

So. If your bobbin winder points the wrong way, don't replace it. Just
hit it with a hammer. (Carefully. :-)

(Many Singer bobbin winders have similar construction. I'll certainly try
this trick next time I need to clean one up.)

paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma)


Re: Treadle drop leaf question

 

bill wrote:
> This is a photo of the pre-work I did on mine. It came without the
> drawers. The photo is before I took off the plate that held the drawers.
>
> The steel bar is shown in the extended position. It rides in a cut out and
> lands on a wedge to help hold the leaf.

Excellent. Thanks Bill. From the other photos I'd been thinking it was
a solid bar, but your photos make it look more like folded or crimped
steel. Either way, since I'll be cobbling something up myself, I now
have a pretty good idea of how it should work.

paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma)


Re: Treadle drop leaf question

Bill Wells
 

This is a photo of the pre-work I did on mine. It came without the drawers. The photo is before I took off the plate that held the drawers.

The steel bar is shown in the extended position. It rides in a cut out and lands on a wedge to help hold the leaf.

Hope these help.

On Fri, Apr 22, 2022 at 7:48 PM Paul Fox <pgf@...> wrote:
roxy via wrote:
?>? ? Mine slides in more than an inch.? Looks to be the same type of bar as on
?>? ? Enid's cabinet.

Thanks to you both!!

The main thing is that it's clearly not wood.? (Which implies that mine
didn't break -- it must have been lost.? :-)

paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma)








--
Bill Wells
ronone69@...


Re: Treadle drop leaf question

 

roxy via groups.io wrote:
> Mine slides in more than an inch. Looks to be the same type of bar as on
> Enid's cabinet.

Thanks to you both!!

The main thing is that it's clearly not wood. (Which implies that mine
didn't break -- it must have been lost. :-)

paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma)


Re: Treadle drop leaf question

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I have had a WW9 since 2014? but didn¡¯t have the bar.? I just looked at mine and it has that little wedge of wood on the bottom side of the drop leaf.? Thanks for solving that mystery!!

?

Jan Smith

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Roxy via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2022 6:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Wheeler_and_Wilson-Sewing-Machines] Treadle drop leaf question

?

Mine slides in more than an inch.? Looks to be the same type of bar as on Enid's cabinet.


Re: Treadle drop leaf question

 

Mine slides in more than an inch.? Looks to be the same type of bar as on Enid's cabinet.


Re: Treadle drop leaf question

 

Hi Paul, attached are the photos. I hope this helps.?


From: "enidr" <enidr@...>
To: "Wheeler and Wilson-Sewing-Machines" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, 22 April, 2022 16:45:38
Subject: Re: [Wheeler_and_Wilson-Sewing-Machines] Treadle drop leaf question

Hi Paul, my leaf is held up by a metal bar, not much play between the slot sides. It sticks out only about 1¡± into the cavity. ?I will try to take a photo and send. Not very tech savvy.
Enid.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Fox <pgf@...>
To: Wheeler and Wilson-Sewing-Machines <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 16:07:04 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Wheeler_and_Wilson-Sewing-Machines] Treadle drop leaf question

I recently got a Wheeler & Wilson treadle table with a drop leaf on
the left end. ?It looks as if the support for the leaf should be a bar
of some sort that slides out from a gap above the drawers just under
the tabletop. ?When retracted, it may have extended all the way into
the little cubby beside the bobbin area.

Can anyone tell me what that support should look like, or be made of?
Dimensions?

From the opening that it retracted into, it looks like it had just a
rectangular cross-section, perhaps 1" x 1/2" (from memory), lying on
its side. ?Which makes me think it might not have been wood, but
perhaps steel.

paul
=----------------------
?paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma)





Re: Treadle drop leaf question

 

Hi Paul, my leaf is held up by a metal bar, not much play between the slot sides. It sticks out only about 1¡± into the cavity. I will try to take a photo and send. Not very tech savvy.
Enid.

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Fox <pgf@...>
To: Wheeler and Wilson-Sewing-Machines <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 16:07:04 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Wheeler_and_Wilson-Sewing-Machines] Treadle drop leaf question

I recently got a Wheeler & Wilson treadle table with a drop leaf on
the left end. It looks as if the support for the leaf should be a bar
of some sort that slides out from a gap above the drawers just under
the tabletop. When retracted, it may have extended all the way into
the little cubby beside the bobbin area.

Can anyone tell me what that support should look like, or be made of?
Dimensions?

From the opening that it retracted into, it looks like it had just a
rectangular cross-section, perhaps 1" x 1/2" (from memory), lying on
its side. Which makes me think it might not have been wood, but
perhaps steel.

paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma)


Treadle drop leaf question

 

I recently got a Wheeler & Wilson treadle table with a drop leaf on
the left end. It looks as if the support for the leaf should be a bar
of some sort that slides out from a gap above the drawers just under
the tabletop. When retracted, it may have extended all the way into
the little cubby beside the bobbin area.

Can anyone tell me what that support should look like, or be made of?
Dimensions?

From the opening that it retracted into, it looks like it had just a
rectangular cross-section, perhaps 1" x 1/2" (from memory), lying on
its side. Which makes me think it might not have been wood, but
perhaps steel.

paul
=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma)


Re: Introduction

 

My WW9 came with a glass foot along with several slightly different replacements that I assume came with the machine when it was new.? Ditto for the WW3.? For the 9, I switched to a totally metal foot from a newer model so that I would feel OK about using it.
?
I've seen 3D printed insert replacements for sale on etsy, I think, but can't seem to locate the seller now.? It's a great idea.


Re: Introduction

 

Thanks for the video link, very enjoyable to see one working.

The evolution of the WW3 through to the WW8 and then the WW9 is quite something and then Singer got hold of them.

The glass feet are quite something, the is a lady on YT that has printed some opaque feet replacements. I will have a go at making a spare plastic foot for my machines and even a glass one one day.
Funny I have seen one were they used a piece of copper.

John


On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 at 18:48, Roxy via <rgrinnell2010=[email protected]> wrote:
John, here's a working WW3 in action:?


Re: Introduction

 
Edited

John, here's a working WW3 in action:? ?


Re: Introduction

 

Nice photo of your machine

I would like to see one of these machines running. A friend of mine has one like your but it is just the head and not the cabinet. He used to bend his own needles, he is 85y chap that worked for Singer industrial machines.??

I have a couple of WW in the UK an 8 and a 9 both hand wind, the 8 is a different hand wheel design compared to the most it is a bit like this link I found
?

John

On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 at 14:47, Roxy via <rgrinnell2010=[email protected]> wrote:
I'm late with the welcome but here it is anyway:? Welcome!?
I have a total of seven W&W's including one like yours.? If I were to collect only one brand, it would be Wheeler and Wilson.? They are wonderful machines.?
I'll be interested to see how your restoration progresses.?

Attachments:


Re: Introduction

 

I'm late with the welcome but here it is anyway:? Welcome!?
I have a total of seven W&W's including one like yours.? If I were to collect only one brand, it would be Wheeler and Wilson.? They are wonderful machines.?
I'll be interested to see how your restoration progresses.?


Re: Introduction

 

Welcome to the group.? There is lots of information in the files.? If you have specific questions, please ask them.

Cheryl
--


Re: Introduction

 

Welcome to the group -- looks like you have some cleanup to do. :-)

Keep us posted on your progress!

paul

finkeyholly@... wrote:
>
> I was asked to do an introduction so here is mine. I recently purchased an
> early wheeler and Wilson. I was told it¡¯s an 1872, and needs a bit of work
> to get it going. I joined this group to learn more about the machine and
> what parts I¡¯m missing, and how to restore it. I¡¯m excited to learn as
> much as possible!
>


=----------------------
paul fox, pgf@... (arlington, ma)


Introduction

 

Hello!?

I was asked to do an introduction so here is mine. I recently purchased an early wheeler and Wilson. I was told it¡¯s an 1872, and needs a bit of work to get it going. I joined this group to learn more about the machine and what parts I¡¯m missing, and how to restore it. I¡¯m excited to learn as much as possible!?


1865 W&W #3 parts available

 

We've gotten an 1865 #3 head that was spray-painted black.? It did not move.? I've cleaned it up as well as these old hands will allow, put it back together and it operates as it should.? Pretty much everything is there except the collar for the presser lifter (the washer thing with the little tab).? Also, the end is chipped off of the dogs.? While there is very deep rust on some areas, most of the shiny bits have actually cleaned up fairly well.?? I have cleaned up the cam, but have not attempted to remove the black spray paint from the leather.? Somebody else gets to risk that!

The head casting is a good candidate for a total makeover.? It's a mess.? There is only the slightest vestige of decal left on one post, the rest of the japanning has pretty much disintegrated and been replaced by rust and black spray paint.? The frog, connector and needle arm are, finish-wise, rough.? There is some japanning left on some of it, but it is in rough condition--also good candidates for a stripping and a fresh start.

Items that are in better shape include a brush (!!), the brush check assembly, cam, and most of the presser lift assembly.

At any rate, if anyone is interested in any of the bits or in the entire head, please don't hesitate to give a shout.? Private email may be the most expeditious for sending photos and pricing, if that's acceptable.? Trying to price things reasonably (although comps are?really hard to find), but we have to recoup our original outlay and shipping costs.

Thanks for your time,
Bruce


Re: W&W Industrial

 

If you're not familiar with it already, ismacs website has info on W&W as well as a comprehensive SN list for singers:

Hit the 'research' tab at the top and you can find the w&w info.
Good luck!

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 10:04 AM Roxy via <rgrinnell2010=[email protected]> wrote:
Thank you again!? Will check the forums.? Since I now know that the machine is not a W&W, I'll try not to discuss it much more here.? However, as you mentioned, the W&W base is perplexing.? If anyone needs measurements or more photos to assist in identification, I'll be glad to take them.? It's definitely larger than any W&W base I have already, and designed for an industrial.

Attachments: