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Re: Rare W&W machines
Hi Miller, I can't speak for W&W but do believe Coopers chart is a year late for Davis.? In the early 1870's Davis made a deal with the Combination to make 30,000 machines over 3 years. I have period newspaper articles that reports this work went on 1870, 71, 72.? Coopers charts lists these years as 1871, 72, 73.? Davis did not pay royalties before or after the contract.? If you look at 1871 as representing the complete year 1870 like taxes then Cooper would be accurate.?? Jon |
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Re: Rare W&W machines
Hi Lee; I do not know how many folks are aware of it but there are two sets of serial number charts extant for these curved needle machines. One set was worked up my Grace Rogers Cooper, former curator for The Smithsonian. She based it on licenses sold through the Sewing Machine Combination. The Combination was not formed until, as I recall 1854, so she had to do some estimating for the first years.? The 2nd chart disagrees on how many were made in the first 2-3 years & puts everything from that point on 1 year later than did Cooper. Needlebar used this chart & may in fact have been the formulators of it. Based on the "Few" bill of sales, Warranty cards or other known purchase dates I have managed to find, I have come to accept Cooper's dates. This would put your machine as an 1873 & Rijnko's as 1874 as he stated. My #1 is #60,422 which by Cooper's chart makes it 1860. This is the only wide bed machine I have. The cloth plate on it measures 6 3/4" x 4 3/4".? I have an 1870 #3 in a half case treadle as well as two extra heads, also 1870. These are all narrow bed machines & their cloth plates all measure 6 3/16" x 4 3/4". What I am trying to determine is if this slightly larger cloth plate is a feature of the Wide Bed machines, or is it just a matter of the time frame in which it was built. The bed posts to which the plate attaches by the rapped holes are the same so the plates will interchange. All of them do have the SN stamped into the tops of the posts & all match their plates so they do all have their original plates intact. Miller/TN |
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Re: Cleaning machine
Something went awry on that post, don't know what happened. I will try to give the links again, but if they don't work the bobbin photos are found on page 5 of the photo section. The needle write-up is near the end of the files section. Needles; Bobbins; See if these work. Don't know why I kept getting the Log-In message as I Was/Am logged in on both sites. Miller/TN |
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Re: Cleaning machine
Hi Debbie; The #9 machine was made from 1887 - 1895. Th3 D-9 replaced it in 1895, but all D-9s have 7 digit serial numbers, which start around 2,200,000 & go up to just short of 3,000,000. Most #9 machines will have a last patent date on the right slide plate of March 25, '90. With that low SN, your machine "may" be pre-1890 & have only earlier patent dates. I have done nothing to my machines other than clean them. I have had pretty good luck using a soft micro-fiber cloth wet with sewing machine oil. Go softly over any remaining decals as they are quite fragile. For whatever reason? W&W decals seem to be particularly notorious for having bad decals. The proper needle for the #9 is a 126x1 (Singer designation) or a Boye #27.? This is a round shank needle, The Boye #18 is the same needle with a flat on the shank to make it self- setting. Some #9 machines will clamp the needle with flat but some won't. I have 3 #9s and of these only one will clamp the needle with a flat. I do use the DBx1 needle in my #9s. This is a round shank needle but is 5mm (0.197") shorter than the original. It has to have the eye aligned & then be pulled down in the clamp around 3/16" & then will just sew up a storm. I was fortunate to get with my machines enough bobbins I can get by. Would like a few more but they are getting a lot higher priced any more. They are a round bobbin having a bagel shape. The #9 & the D-9 use similar bobbins of the same diameter, but the D-9 bobbin is a bit thicker giving it more thread capacity. They can be told apart as the #9 bobbin has completely smooth sides while the D-9 one has a single hole in each side down near the hub. I put up pictures of all the bobbins & cases for all the W&W family machines in our photo section here;
Also in the files section I have a write-up on these bobbins giving dimensions here; And one on the needles here; I hope this is of help to you, but do feel free to ask any questions you may have, that is what we are here for. Miller/TN ?
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Re: Rare W&W machines
Hi Miller,
The serial number on my W&W #1 hand crank is 824890 so from my serial number listings makes it 1874 I could be wrong but I make Rijnko's machine 1875 not 1874 as mentioned, your thoughts? I have an 1859 machine so when I get a chance (over the weekend) I will check the bed dimensions as you now have me curious about that also. Because they do not sit next to each other I have not noticed that......interesting. I will also add a couple of pictures to the same album of 'The Royal' machine I spoke about. Lee |
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Re: Cleaning machine
The needles & bobbins just are not a standard size & no longer produced. I use vintage Boye 18 needles, but there is a modern needle that can be substituted, DBx1 if I remember correctly. Miller can confirm or correct me. I think it was 1895 when that model came out, but that might not be right, but Singer bought ought the company in 1905.
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I¡¯m fresh out of the hospital after very major surgery & the pain pills make me more forgetful. So I hope I¡¯m not misleading you. I polish my own machines but I am unable to get to them right now to take photos. If the plate to the right of the needle does not say D9 then it¡¯s a 9, provided the plate is original to the machine. .? On Tuesday, September 17, 2019, <Debbiesuew@...> wrote:
The needle came out, thanks for your advice.? Want to take the bobbin winder apart for cleaning.? Any suggestion? ? |
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Re: Cleaning machine
The needle came out, thanks for your advice. ?Want to take the bobbin winder apart for cleaning. ?Any suggestion? ?
The bobbin area also needs work. ?I¡¯m just concerned about what I can and can¡¯t do. ?Are there guides for cleaning and taking them apart somewhere? ?And why are bobbins and needles so hard to find? I realize you must be shaking your heads because I have so many questions but I¡¯m so new to all of this. ?I see all the pictures of your beautiful machines and wonder, did you find them like that or did you fix repair and restore them yourselves. ? Im trying to load pictures of my machine when I received it and then hoped to add to it as I worked on her. Im pretty sure she is a 9 but am clueless to a date. ?I was thinking late 1890-1907. |
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Re: Rare W&W machines
Hi Lee; Beautiful machine, thanks for putting up the pics for us to share. Looks as if both the silver plate & decals are in great condition. You are indeed fortunate to have found this rare machine.? I don't recall if you have stated or not, but what time frame was this machine built. It is obviously after they began placing the brass medallion on the bed. My 1860 wide bed #1 does not have it while an 1870 narrow bed #3 does.? Also, my 1860 machine has a wider cloth plate (as you sit in front of it, the long dimension)? than does my narrow bed #3s. I have not yet determined if this is because off the different time frame or because of the different bed style. Miller/TN |
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Re: Cleaning machine
Hi Debbie; With that serial number, this could be an early curved needle machine, a #8 or a #9, but not a D-9. It really won't make that much difference though as to getting the needle out. Likely that old needle has been ih the machine a long time & is well stuck, possibly even some rust. I would first entirely remove the entire clamp screw & squirt it with your favorite penetrating oil. You want to be very careful & not break the needle off flush with the needlebar leaving nothing to grasp. If you have or can get a small brass or copper rod you might tap on the shank portion lightly to set up a bit of vibration which will help the penetrant do its job. Do this for 2-3 days. Then use something you can grip the exposed shank with & twist, without exerting sideways pressure. Once that needle moves a bit, it will break the bond & should come right out.? Just go slow & careful & TRY Hard Not to break that needle flush. The blade itself is not of much importance but you need the exposed portion of the shank to work with. Miller/TN |
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Re: Rare W&W machines
Hi Miller & all,
I fully agree with you in respect to Rijnko's hand crank being fabricated in the UK and that this type is extremely rare. I have been collecting for well over 20 years and am only aware of five other hand crank machines including Rijko's. I also have one of this type and the mechanical workings in the base are identical. I found mine in the UK many, many years ago so that would help to verify the bases and crank assembly being made there. If you are interested I can put some pictures on the site?? Wheeler & Wilson were not alone in having this style of hand crank set up. I also have a very rare machine called 'The Royal' which is a clone of the W&W curved needle machine but was manufactured by the Royal Sewing Machine Company.? Lee in Australia |
Debbie Wines
Anne Graham